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Speaker 1: But green Light on the foreshore and seabird been stuck

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Speaker 1: in court of course, But essentially we're looking to head

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Speaker 1: back to twenty eleven of the way it has been

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Speaker 1: when it comes to customary title. Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith

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Speaker 1: back with us. Paul morning, Oh, good morning. What have

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Speaker 1: you been doing. It's been in court. I mean the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court ruled in twenty twenty three. Been mucking around?

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Speaker 1: What's going on?

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, not twenty three. What happened was it

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Speaker 2: was the Court of Appeal that ruled, which sort of

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Speaker 2: ignored the second part of our test, which was a

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Speaker 2: high test before customary Marine title was awarded. That is

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Speaker 2: because it has real consequences, it's got valuable rights and

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Speaker 2: it has the ability. Owners of CMT have the ability

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Speaker 2: to turn down resource consents for certain things on the

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Speaker 2: coastal area. So that's why we had a high test.

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Speaker 2: Court of Appeal did that at the end of twenty three.

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Speaker 2: We introduced this legislation last year and it went off

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Speaker 2: to sleek committee and then the Supreme Court overturned the

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Speaker 2: Court of Appeal and that's what complicated things. We've spent

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Speaker 2: a couple of we've spent a bit of time just

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Speaker 2: working our way through the consequences of that, and now

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Speaker 2: we've resolved to press on with the Supreme Court did.

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Speaker 1: Half the job, but we want to do what if

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court hadn't gone against the Appeal Court, well.

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Speaker 2: Then we would have just carried on with our legislation

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Speaker 2: and passed it in descended.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, because why, Paul, you are the ultimate court in

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Speaker 1: the land. Who gives some monkeys what the appeal Court says?

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Speaker 2: Well, no, I mean, we obviously take very seriously what

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court says, or the ultimate court of the land.

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Speaker 2: If you want to do something, do it, yes, But

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Speaker 2: you know, we take these things seriously and we think

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Speaker 2: through the consequences of it all, and we're clear what

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Speaker 2: we want to achieve, which is that we want to

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Speaker 2: be able to provide the opportunity for Mari customary rights

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Speaker 2: to be recognized. But we also want to protect the

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Speaker 2: legitimate interests of all New Zealanders because everybody obviously has

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Speaker 2: an interest in WORS on the coastal area.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we do.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 1: Basically, you're going back to twenty eleven, right, because you

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Speaker 1: had it sorted in twenty eleven. It's just a few

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Speaker 1: agitators hired. I'm sure at taxpayers expen some lawyers to

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Speaker 1: go to the Appeal Court then the Supreme Court. That's

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Speaker 1: how it unfolded, wasn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean lots of people argue about all these

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Speaker 2: legal issues, and so what we're trying to be clear

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Speaker 2: about is that, yes, we want to have the opportunity

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Speaker 2: for people to go get customer marine title, but that

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Speaker 2: does have real valuable rights and that's why Parliament set

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Speaker 2: a high bar. We want to make sure that there

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Speaker 2: is a high bar.

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Speaker 1: Are we any materially different? Once you get this lot

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Speaker 1: through from where we were in twenty eleven, Well.

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Speaker 2: That's where Parliament thought it was in twenty eleven, but

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Speaker 2: of course this all goes through the courts and yah.

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Speaker 1: But that's my point. So you knew where you were

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Speaker 1: because the ultimate Court of the Land in twenty eleven

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Speaker 1: made a very clear statement on what it was, and

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Speaker 1: you somehow catau to these court proceedings and decided to

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Speaker 1: muck around since twenty eleven on this and finally we're

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Speaker 1: getting back to where we were in twenty eleven.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think that's quite an accurate timeline. The

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Speaker 2: law was passed in twenty eleven and then it took

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Speaker 2: about ten years before some significant cases reached the High Court,

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Speaker 2: and that's when we saw the consequences of the interpretation

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Speaker 2: and that's what we're set to correct at the moment.

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Speaker 2: And so I want to be very clear about those

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Speaker 2: thresholds that there's two sort of things that have to

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Speaker 2: be determined ta Kung and then secondly undisturbed possessions since

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Speaker 2: eighting forty.

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Speaker 1: Timeline on what you're doing now, when's it ticked off?

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Speaker 2: We're just finalizing the drafting. We hope to get it

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Speaker 2: all done by October.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate your time as always. Paul Smith Paul Goldsmith, the

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Speaker 1: Justice Minister.

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Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks.

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