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Speaker 1: We've got our eighteenth annual State of the Nation report

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Speaker 1: from the Sally's. One fun fact is that more than

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Speaker 1: four hundred thousand people needed welfare support last year. That's

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Speaker 1: the highest in more than thirty years. Report author Paul

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Speaker 1: Barber's with us. Paul, very good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Maria, Nika, good to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: And you too. I wanted to find some good news,

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Speaker 1: and I've got some good news in your report. Fewer

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Speaker 1: mari kids are in state care as community based alternatives increase.

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Speaker 1: This is excellent, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, it is one of those examples of the

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Speaker 2: good news that is in our report about health. How

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Speaker 2: there are changes happening that can improve things for people.

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Speaker 2: But overall, it's afraid the earth. We're looking at a

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Speaker 2: fairly challenging time for our community.

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Speaker 1: Do you go in with a lens of negativity? And

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to be rude in saying that, but

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Speaker 1: for eighteen years I've been doing these stories, and for

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Speaker 1: eighteen years you've told us how miserable New Zealand is.

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Speaker 1: Is that productive?

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Speaker 2: We were? Actually people have hoped in the salvation army,

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Speaker 2: and our report is about trying to focus on what's

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Speaker 2: actually making it difference of the people that we're working

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Speaker 2: with every day and in the communities is one hundred

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Speaker 2: and thirty five thousand people that come to the Salvation

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Speaker 2: of Harmony seeking help and support. And we're looking at

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Speaker 2: these measurements to see both improvements and as well as

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Speaker 2: to be realistic up what's getting worse. Over the years

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Speaker 2: we've sitten there many many times we're able to identify

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Speaker 2: lots of positive changes and you know, I think this year, unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: it's already been a tough year. We've seen rising food

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Speaker 2: and security, it's risen to a record level. We've seen

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Speaker 2: a really mixed story around homelessness and housing. We've seen

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Speaker 2: a fantastic increase in a number of public houses, so

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Speaker 2: social housing available to help people who are waiting for

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Speaker 2: her need at home. But on the other hand, we've

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Speaker 2: also seen a disturbing rise in the street homelessness as

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Speaker 2: people as the emergency housing support has been ended.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever draw down into the need and where

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Speaker 1: it comes from. And we'll be talking about this new

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Speaker 1: move from Housing New Zealand after seven o'clock this morning

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Speaker 1: about chasing up some of the back rent. Is the

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Speaker 1: back rent for example, or in your circumstances to help

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Speaker 1: hand it out. Is it because there's nothing you can

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Speaker 1: do as an individual, or because as an individual there

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Speaker 1: probably was something you could do, you just couldn't be bothered.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a very very small issue, this issue

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Speaker 2: of over your rentals on social housing. What's most important

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Speaker 2: is that you're providing a place for people to live

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Speaker 2: that they're supported. And it's a tiny, tiny proportion. If

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Speaker 2: we were talking about the Coying Order House, there's a

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Speaker 2: tiny proportion here in that situation, and that's among seventy

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Speaker 2: thousand people who are a whole house.

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Speaker 1: Rent. In an economy we don't have the money.

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Speaker 2: That twenty one million compares to the what is it

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Speaker 2: three or so billion in rent that is collected over

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Speaker 2: seventy thousand rentals. We have to have a bit of

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Speaker 2: perspective on that.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I'm trying to get to. So your

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Speaker 1: your ideological and political view of the world is people struggle,

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Speaker 1: that's just life, and we pick up the tab and

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Speaker 1: we pay the bill for that.

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Speaker 2: Our view is it's important to be besides people to

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Speaker 2: help them against get stability in their lives and to

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Speaker 2: help people have their lives transformed, and what we see

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Speaker 2: when social housing is doing well, that's exactly what happens,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, that's why we strongly support increasing community

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Speaker 2: and caring order our government owned public housing so that

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Speaker 2: we can actually help people, help end homelessness. That's the dream,

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Speaker 2: and we've seen a lot of we've seen a lot

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Speaker 2: of progress in that space, and we'd really like to

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Speaker 2: see that continued.

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Speaker 1: Good stuff, Paul, appreciate your time. Paul Barbera, who is

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Speaker 1: the report author the Salvation Army Reports number eighteen. For

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Speaker 1: more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news

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