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Speaker 1: And with us. Now is Nikola Willi's Finance minister in

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Speaker 1: budget week? Hi Nikoler, Hi Heather? Are you but gutted

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Speaker 1: that this budget week is being overshadowed by this business

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Speaker 1: with the Marti Party punishment.

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Speaker 2: No, this week is still about the budget because that's

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Speaker 2: what's going to deliver benefits for New Zealanders, and I

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Speaker 2: think that's what most Keywis would want us focused on.

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Speaker 1: Did you watch one News and three News this evening.

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Speaker 2: I haven't watched them yet.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what I hate to tell you, but it was

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Speaker 1: all about the Marti Party punishment and very little about

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Speaker 1: your tax changes, wasn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well. I think that's going to frustrate New Zealanders because

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Speaker 2: when I speak with every day people, they're saying to me,

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Speaker 2: I'm worried about the cost of living, about the economy.

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Speaker 2: I want to see investment in the health system, and

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Speaker 2: that's exactly what the budget's about this week. What they

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Speaker 2: don't want to see is parliamentarians obsessed with themselves, focused

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Speaker 2: on parliamentary procedure and breaking the rules.

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Speaker 1: Have you got any more? You've got a couple more

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Speaker 1: days before the budget, a couple of full working days.

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Speaker 1: Have you got any more announcements lined up.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there will be ministers making a couple of small

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Speaker 2: announcements in the next cup.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and see small announcements are going to be drowned

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Speaker 1: out by that debate tomorrow, aren't they. Oh well, look,

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Speaker 1: come on, I'm just going to keep for us this

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Speaker 1: right frustrating to you.

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Speaker 2: Well, we just need to focus on the things that

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Speaker 2: will make a difference to people. We can't control the party, Mary.

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Speaker 2: They will do what they want to do. Labor will

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Speaker 2: do what they want to do and how they want

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Speaker 2: to be seen as part of a chaoto. It's distracted

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Speaker 2: from the issues, then that's on them to be.

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Speaker 1: Fair and it is fair that the opposition will make

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Speaker 1: hay but this is an opportunity that was left to

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Speaker 1: them by Jerry Brownlee the Speaker, a member of your party.

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Speaker 2: Well, the process in Parliament is clear. There are rules.

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Speaker 2: If people break the rules, the Privileges Committee investigate those

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Speaker 2: rule breaks and then they determine what censure should occur.

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Speaker 2: The Privileges Committee have made a series of recommendations in

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Speaker 2: the House Tomorrow after question time, Judith Collins, the chair

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Speaker 2: of that committee, will present the report. A debate will

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Speaker 2: ensue and how long that debate goes on is ultimately

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Speaker 2: up to the House.

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Speaker 1: Is it normal? Is it normal to have the debate.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's normal for everybody to be able to

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Speaker 1: debate it obviously debate the recommendations. Is it normal for

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Speaker 1: the speaker to point out to them that the debate

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Speaker 1: is available to them or is it normally just a

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Speaker 1: case if you move it and then get seconded and

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Speaker 1: there we go.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the discretion of the speaker. I think that

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Speaker 2: what is unusual he is the way that Labor of

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Speaker 2: taken to party Marty's side, or that's way to be

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Speaker 2: endorsing them, taking actions which we're pretty threatening, pretty physical,

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Speaker 2: and then really thumbing their nose at the privilege.

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Speaker 1: How do you know that Labor has taken their side?

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Speaker 2: That seems to be the indications from Chris Hipkins public statements.

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting that they're going to pay for that. Is

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Speaker 1: it normal though, for during one of these debates about

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Speaker 1: the Privileges Committee, for every single amendment to be debated

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Speaker 1: by everybody.

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Speaker 2: Again, well, I understand that that is the procedure of

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Speaker 2: the House, and ultimately the Speaker is the right person

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Speaker 2: to make that determination. So those are his statements. As

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Speaker 2: I say, I believe in allowing the rules of Parliament.

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Speaker 2: The Speaker ultimately determines how those rules are applied, and

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Speaker 2: we respect his authority in that regard. It's a shame

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Speaker 2: that more members of Parliament don't respect the rules of

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Speaker 2: the place. We are there to do a job for

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Speaker 2: New Zealanders, not to just behave however we wish to behave.

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Speaker 1: Do you know whether this debate, because this debate can

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Speaker 1: go on for days and days and days, right, does

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Speaker 1: it end? Does Budget day end it? Or can it

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Speaker 1: or does it just pause? We have Budget Day and

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Speaker 1: then it resumes thereafter?

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Speaker 2: Well two things there. First, it's ultimately up to the

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Speaker 2: House how long that debate goes on, so we'll see tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: And then second, budget day is pretty sacrisanct because without

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Speaker 2: the budget you can't turn the lights on on the

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Speaker 2: schools and the hospitals. That's going into people's bank accounts.

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Speaker 1: Do you know the answer to that question, because I what.

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Speaker 2: I what I understand is that Budget Day will go ahead.

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Speaker 1: No, I know that, No, I know the debate is on.

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Speaker 1: But does that mean the debate pauses and then we

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Speaker 1: resume it after Budget Day?

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Speaker 2: Well, all of that is to be made clear in

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Speaker 2: the next couple of days.

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Speaker 1: Here now, why does it cost sixty three million dollars

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Speaker 1: to change tax rules?

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Speaker 2: Two changes that the government is making there. The first

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Speaker 2: is recognizing that startups often want their employees to be

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Speaker 2: partly compensated in the form of shares in the company,

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Speaker 2: and at the moment that can create complications because they

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Speaker 2: have to pay tax on those shares even before they've

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Speaker 2: sold them. So we're putting in place of deferral regime,

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Speaker 2: which we used to make well mean ten million dollars

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Speaker 2: less tax collected over the next four years. The second

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Speaker 2: thing is that we want to see more foreign investors

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Speaker 2: able to invest in New Zealand infrastructure and projects. There's

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Speaker 2: evidence that the rules around something called thin capitalization are

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Speaker 2: limiting how much investment happens in New Zealand. Basically they're

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Speaker 2: denied interest deductibility for the borrowing they do. So we've

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Speaker 2: put out a consultation pape today to say how could

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Speaker 2: we tweak the rules to make this a more attractive

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Speaker 2: place to invest. Ird estimate the cost of that over

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Speaker 2: the next four years would be around sixty five million dollars.

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Speaker 2: The precise cost depends on the final details of the policy,

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Speaker 2: which we intend to introduce in a text.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So it's not sixty five million dollars to change

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Speaker 1: the rules. It is sixty five million dollars in what

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Speaker 1: it would cost to actually implement.

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Speaker 2: This, yeah, and less tax that will be paid.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Now, I've been thinking about the supermarkets thing that

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Speaker 1: happened on Friday, and I mentioned this on Friday after

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Speaker 1: I spoke to you, But I reckon that Willworths may

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Speaker 1: have been firing you guys a little warning with that

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Speaker 1: GST claim.

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Speaker 2: What do you think, Well, I think will Worth know

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Speaker 2: that New Zealanders are frustrated by the prices they pay

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Speaker 2: at the checkout. Will Worth know that the Grocery Commission,

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Speaker 2: the Commerce Commission, and many other entities have pointed out

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Speaker 2: that a lack of competition in New Zealand is one

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Speaker 2: factor driving higher prices to Zealand shoppers and will Worth

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Speaker 2: are pretty keen to protect their position, which is one

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Speaker 2: in which they act within a functional job.

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Speaker 1: Beee that as a day. I think they're going to

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Speaker 1: come at you with the GST right, They're going to

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Speaker 1: blame you, you for the high prices of the groceries,

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Speaker 1: don't you think.

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Speaker 2: Well, I remain hopeful Heather, that will Worth will see

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Speaker 2: that the government is very serious about getting a better

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Speaker 2: deal for shoppers. We have a number of options for

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Speaker 2: how we proceed, and I think it would be better

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Speaker 2: for we're Worth to come to the table and the

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Speaker 2: spirit of cooperation than try and fight us on this one,

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Speaker 2: because I tell you what, there's a lot of issues

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Speaker 2: that I get involved in, and this is one where

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Speaker 2: I reckon. The vast majority of New Zealanders are on

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Speaker 2: the government's side.

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Speaker 1: See I reckon if they start coming at you with

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Speaker 1: the GST, people will flip on this, don't you think.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the GST is a hot button for people.

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Speaker 1: This is why we talk about it every election.

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Speaker 2: But that is not the driver of New Zealand having

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Speaker 2: much higher grocery prices.

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Speaker 1: I've got to undertred, somebody said to me on Friday,

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Speaker 1: and I think this is a great example. Tell me, Nikola,

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Speaker 1: how any of your supermarket reforms would bring down the

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Speaker 1: price of butter.

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Speaker 2: Well? Have you been to Costco lately, Heather?

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Speaker 1: Costing about it today?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I went. I visited there a few weeks ago

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Speaker 2: and I was shocked because anyone who's gone and bought

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Speaker 2: a five hundred gram box of butter att the Souf market, Well, no,

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Speaker 2: it's up to about ten bucks at the moment I

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Speaker 2: went to Costco, they sell it and killogram blocks for

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Speaker 2: nine five. Now tell me how are they able to

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Speaker 2: do that? But they with pack and save New World cannot.

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Speaker 1: They say, smaller margins but bulk buying.

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Speaker 2: So if there you go.

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Speaker 1: But then but that says that you cannot split up

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Speaker 1: the supermarkets like you want to, because if you split

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Speaker 1: up the supermarkets, you're literally doing the opposite of voult Bar.

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Speaker 2: It does not say that at all either, because Costco

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Speaker 2: is one shop, one shop in New Zealand and they

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Speaker 2: are able to offer that far more affordable.

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Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what, I'll go down to your

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Speaker 1: local New World and buy like five boxes a butter.

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Speaker 1: You do that at Costcos that's their The.

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Speaker 2: Other thing about Costco is this wasin a twenty kilometer

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Speaker 2: radius of that store. Prices at nearby soof markets are cheaper.

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Speaker 2: Why because Costco has introduced com petition to that community.

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Speaker 2: And that's my point. Where you have a competitor, everyone

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Speaker 2: sharpens up their prices and that's what I want to see.

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Speaker 2: I want to see more competition and people sharpening up.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's a great thing that Costco are

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Speaker 2: competing by saying, look, you're worried about the price of butter,

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Speaker 2: we sell cheaper butter. And actually a lot of New

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Speaker 2: Zealanders do choose to do their full shop at Costco.

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Speaker 2: Some of them shop around and do other things as well,

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Speaker 2: but that has the effect I think of showing that

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Speaker 2: there are opportunities for the major ser market chains to

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Speaker 2: lower their prices, and they don't seem to be taking

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Speaker 2: all of the opportunities available.

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Speaker 1: You make an excellent point. I'm going to give that

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Speaker 1: one to you, Nikola. Are you coming in on budget

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Speaker 1: Day on Thursday? We we're going to ban all talk

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Speaker 1: of the Marori party. Are you coming into our post

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Speaker 1: office studio in Parliament.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to it very much. And because the

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Speaker 2: expression on your face when I make really good points

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Speaker 2: and you just have that beaming smile that you're just

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Speaker 2: thinking what a great points you just made. But I'll

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Speaker 2: also be able to see your frown when you think

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Speaker 2: that I'm not making sense, so that I'll allow me

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Speaker 2: creet myself quickly.

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Speaker 1: Five oh five Thursday. It's a date, Nicholas, Thank you

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Speaker 1: very much. Nichola will us the Finance Minister. For more

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Speaker 1: from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to news talks.

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