1 00:00:19,059 --> 00:00:22,018 Speaker 1: Kyota at Chelsea Daniels here, host of the Front Page. 2 00:00:22,379 --> 00:00:25,299 Speaker 1: We're taking away breakover summer, but to help build the gap, 3 00:00:25,579 --> 00:00:28,699 Speaker 1: we're re issuing some of our most significant episodes of 4 00:00:28,739 --> 00:00:32,019 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five on behalf of the Front Page team. 5 00:00:32,138 --> 00:00:34,619 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and we look forward to being back 6 00:00:34,659 --> 00:00:38,139 Speaker 1: with you on January twelfth, twenty twenty six. Just a 7 00:00:38,219 --> 00:00:41,659 Speaker 1: quick note, this interview with Mark Mitchell was recorded prior 8 00:00:41,739 --> 00:00:50,938 Speaker 1: to the Tongedito fire. Kyota, I'm Chelsea Daniels and this 9 00:00:50,979 --> 00:00:54,859 Speaker 1: is The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the 10 00:00:54,899 --> 00:01:02,739 Speaker 1: New Zealand Herald. Mark Mitchell has heralded the government's promise 11 00:01:02,979 --> 00:01:07,619 Speaker 1: to be tough on crime. He's been incredibly clear from 12 00:01:07,779 --> 00:01:10,379 Speaker 1: the get go that his primary goal is to make 13 00:01:10,459 --> 00:01:15,738 Speaker 1: New Zealand an uncomfortable place for gangs to operate. He 14 00:01:15,819 --> 00:01:21,459 Speaker 1: holds five portfolios, Police correct Actions, Emergency Management and Recovery, 15 00:01:21,579 --> 00:01:26,299 Speaker 1: Ethnic communities, and Sports and Recreation. So how does an 16 00:01:26,419 --> 00:01:29,899 Speaker 1: MP with so many hats feel about how his government 17 00:01:30,299 --> 00:01:33,858 Speaker 1: has tackled the big issues? Today on the Front Page, 18 00:01:33,938 --> 00:01:42,259 Speaker 1: Mitchell joins us to talk cops, corrections and communities. So, 19 00:01:42,459 --> 00:01:45,739 Speaker 1: first off, Mark, you're very looking, very comfortable whereabouts are you? 20 00:01:46,459 --> 00:01:48,978 Speaker 2: I'm a marrying you Bay Beach, Marrying. 21 00:01:48,619 --> 00:01:51,779 Speaker 3: You Bay Beach and whereabouts? Just right on the beach there. 22 00:01:52,099 --> 00:01:53,899 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sitting right on the beach and this is 23 00:01:54,139 --> 00:01:56,099 Speaker 2: the beach that this is the when I was a kid. 24 00:01:56,619 --> 00:01:59,499 Speaker 2: This is where I grew up in that surf plub. 25 00:01:59,538 --> 00:02:02,698 Speaker 2: I don't know if you can see the surf club. Yeah, yeah, 26 00:02:02,819 --> 00:02:04,618 Speaker 2: that was my surf club. So it's not actually my 27 00:02:04,659 --> 00:02:06,459 Speaker 2: electric because I ran at a time. I was trying 28 00:02:06,459 --> 00:02:09,219 Speaker 2: to get back up to my pitch, but I ran 29 00:02:09,258 --> 00:02:10,739 Speaker 2: out of time, so I thought I'll go and sit 30 00:02:10,779 --> 00:02:13,138 Speaker 2: down of Marrying You Bay Beach and do the podcast 31 00:02:13,219 --> 00:02:14,099 Speaker 2: and Chelsea down there. 32 00:02:16,139 --> 00:02:19,619 Speaker 1: So Mark, we've seen a skin this year at the 33 00:02:19,619 --> 00:02:20,578 Speaker 1: top of the police chain. 34 00:02:20,659 --> 00:02:21,819 Speaker 3: There's no denying that. 35 00:02:21,939 --> 00:02:25,099 Speaker 1: Are you confident the public still has trust in the 36 00:02:25,139 --> 00:02:26,139 Speaker 1: New Zealand Police. 37 00:02:26,379 --> 00:02:28,699 Speaker 2: Well, I hope that they do maintain trusted in New 38 00:02:28,739 --> 00:02:31,739 Speaker 2: Zealand Police because without a doubt we have got a 39 00:02:31,819 --> 00:02:34,978 Speaker 2: world class police force and the size of the organization 40 00:02:35,099 --> 00:02:37,419 Speaker 2: that we have, there's always going to be the odd 41 00:02:37,899 --> 00:02:42,379 Speaker 2: rotten apple in the barrel. And look how police officers 42 00:02:42,379 --> 00:02:45,379 Speaker 2: are out there every day, you know, with teens of 43 00:02:45,418 --> 00:02:50,618 Speaker 2: thousands of pocket of actions protecting and supporting their communities, 44 00:02:50,619 --> 00:02:53,059 Speaker 2: the commutes that they serve. And I'd just like to 45 00:02:53,099 --> 00:02:57,018 Speaker 2: say Chelsea that this week I've been to two police 46 00:02:57,059 --> 00:03:00,859 Speaker 2: awards ceremonies and probably seventy five percent of the awards 47 00:03:00,858 --> 00:03:03,539 Speaker 2: that I see handed out to police officers that have 48 00:03:03,578 --> 00:03:07,419 Speaker 2: put themselves in danger saved the lives of members of 49 00:03:07,418 --> 00:03:10,659 Speaker 2: the public. When you see bad behavior from a police officer, 50 00:03:11,258 --> 00:03:14,538 Speaker 2: there's no one feels it more deeply than those thousands 51 00:03:14,578 --> 00:03:17,899 Speaker 2: of both our sworn and non sworn staff that are 52 00:03:17,899 --> 00:03:22,819 Speaker 2: out there she holding to and the values and ideals 53 00:03:22,819 --> 00:03:24,939 Speaker 2: of our New Zealand police. None feels are more deeply 54 00:03:24,939 --> 00:03:27,819 Speaker 2: than them when there's someone that doesn't hold to those values. 55 00:03:28,059 --> 00:03:31,059 Speaker 1: Is it concerning to you, though, that that rotten if 56 00:03:31,059 --> 00:03:34,099 Speaker 1: we're talking about rotten apples, that one of the rotten 57 00:03:34,138 --> 00:03:37,899 Speaker 1: apples nearly got the top police job ally was in 58 00:03:37,939 --> 00:03:40,139 Speaker 1: contention for the top police job in this country. 59 00:03:40,299 --> 00:03:43,899 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's of course, that's a genuine concern, and I 60 00:03:43,899 --> 00:03:46,819 Speaker 2: acknowledge that. All I'd say is that as the incoming 61 00:03:46,859 --> 00:03:48,779 Speaker 2: Police Minister, there were quite a few issues that I 62 00:03:48,779 --> 00:03:51,979 Speaker 2: had to view with and one of them was this 63 00:03:52,099 --> 00:03:54,099 Speaker 2: case and I'm sorry that I can't talk to the 64 00:03:54,179 --> 00:03:57,419 Speaker 2: detail on a Chelsea, but it's actually the case although 65 00:03:58,339 --> 00:04:02,059 Speaker 2: there has been a guilty plea put in that's still 66 00:04:02,059 --> 00:04:06,299 Speaker 2: before the courts for seniencings. Though I can't talk to 67 00:04:06,339 --> 00:04:07,259 Speaker 2: the case directly. 68 00:04:07,659 --> 00:04:10,899 Speaker 3: That's a good one. We'll move on to crime statistics. 69 00:04:11,379 --> 00:04:14,659 Speaker 1: They show a sharp drop in alcohol related violent crime 70 00:04:15,139 --> 00:04:17,499 Speaker 1: since June twenty twenty four to May this year. The 71 00:04:17,619 --> 00:04:22,179 Speaker 1: fallen alcohol involved offending accounted for actually sixty five percent 72 00:04:22,659 --> 00:04:26,099 Speaker 1: of the total drop in violent offending. Should the government 73 00:04:26,139 --> 00:04:29,859 Speaker 1: do more to curb alcohol related crime? 74 00:04:29,939 --> 00:04:30,499 Speaker 3: Do you think? 75 00:04:31,659 --> 00:04:34,339 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that. You know, alcohol and drugs have 76 00:04:34,339 --> 00:04:37,699 Speaker 2: always been a huge degravating factor in terms of the 77 00:04:37,699 --> 00:04:42,859 Speaker 2: perpetration of violent crime. Education has to continue to be 78 00:04:43,419 --> 00:04:45,739 Speaker 2: a big part of that. You know. The police are 79 00:04:45,739 --> 00:04:49,699 Speaker 2: obviously run very effective road safety programs to make our 80 00:04:50,179 --> 00:04:53,099 Speaker 2: roads safe. You know, we've driven down the rates of 81 00:04:53,499 --> 00:04:59,099 Speaker 2: drunk driving significantly. And there's always differently, there's different things 82 00:04:59,099 --> 00:05:02,299 Speaker 2: that police are looking at doing and providing device Who's 83 00:05:02,459 --> 00:05:05,139 Speaker 2: justice officials in terms of how we can continue to 84 00:05:05,179 --> 00:05:09,179 Speaker 2: make change. Is that balance up people's right, the responsible 85 00:05:09,259 --> 00:05:11,379 Speaker 2: drinkers to have access to alcohol and be able to 86 00:05:11,459 --> 00:05:15,459 Speaker 2: enjoy that responsibly against the ones that aren't responsible and 87 00:05:15,659 --> 00:05:16,499 Speaker 2: public safety. 88 00:05:16,739 --> 00:05:20,738 Speaker 1: New Zealand's prison population where is hitting record highs? 89 00:05:20,819 --> 00:05:22,299 Speaker 3: Is this a good thing or a bad thing? 90 00:05:22,579 --> 00:05:24,939 Speaker 2: Look, I think any society would agree that we don't 91 00:05:24,979 --> 00:05:27,819 Speaker 2: want that. We'd love to not have prisons, and we'd 92 00:05:27,859 --> 00:05:30,099 Speaker 2: love to have everyone that lives in our societies and 93 00:05:30,139 --> 00:05:33,459 Speaker 2: our communities respect one another and not hurt or perpetrate 94 00:05:33,579 --> 00:05:37,939 Speaker 2: violent crime against the people in society that are lawabiding. 95 00:05:38,179 --> 00:05:41,179 Speaker 2: But unfortunately, as long as humans have been roaming this earth, 96 00:05:41,699 --> 00:05:44,979 Speaker 2: that hasn't been the case. And so we've been very 97 00:05:45,059 --> 00:05:46,819 Speaker 2: clear as the end up in government that we are 98 00:05:46,819 --> 00:05:50,739 Speaker 2: prioritizing public safety that if we have people in our society, 99 00:05:50,739 --> 00:05:52,739 Speaker 2: in our communities that don't want to stick to the laws, 100 00:05:52,819 --> 00:05:55,539 Speaker 2: they want to hurt people, then you know they are 101 00:05:55,539 --> 00:05:57,259 Speaker 2: going to end up and they keep assisted in that 102 00:05:57,379 --> 00:05:59,739 Speaker 2: sort of behavior, then they are going to end up 103 00:05:59,859 --> 00:06:03,379 Speaker 2: in prison. And our correction is still things because we 104 00:06:03,419 --> 00:06:05,899 Speaker 2: want law of bodies to feel safe. 105 00:06:06,299 --> 00:06:09,259 Speaker 1: Does it mean the government's stance on being tough on 106 00:06:09,379 --> 00:06:11,139 Speaker 1: crime is actually working. 107 00:06:11,299 --> 00:06:13,579 Speaker 2: Well, it's working in the sense that the targets that 108 00:06:13,619 --> 00:06:18,059 Speaker 2: we sent into a rejuction and victimizations. We've already met that, 109 00:06:18,099 --> 00:06:21,539 Speaker 2: in fact exceeded that. And of course you'd have to 110 00:06:21,539 --> 00:06:24,899 Speaker 2: look at our response as a government, which includes increased 111 00:06:25,659 --> 00:06:31,059 Speaker 2: We've made sentencing much toper. We have reduced the discounts 112 00:06:31,099 --> 00:06:33,419 Speaker 2: that were allowed from you know, you've seen discounts of 113 00:06:33,859 --> 00:06:37,259 Speaker 2: seventy eighty percent. We get that at forty percent. And 114 00:06:37,339 --> 00:06:39,619 Speaker 2: like I said, we've just as an incoming government, we 115 00:06:39,659 --> 00:06:44,139 Speaker 2: have and as the three parties as a coalition, as 116 00:06:44,139 --> 00:06:46,699 Speaker 2: a coalition government, have been very clear that we are 117 00:06:46,779 --> 00:06:48,219 Speaker 2: prioritizing public safety. 118 00:06:48,779 --> 00:06:50,259 Speaker 3: What if it's working too well. 119 00:06:50,299 --> 00:06:53,899 Speaker 1: I mean, we've already hit the population estimates within about 120 00:06:54,019 --> 00:06:57,579 Speaker 1: ten nine hundred behind bars. Will there be more money 121 00:06:57,619 --> 00:07:00,539 Speaker 1: in the kiddy next year to address how many people 122 00:07:00,539 --> 00:07:01,739 Speaker 1: are actually going to prison? 123 00:07:02,099 --> 00:07:05,499 Speaker 2: Yes, so as of yesterday it is about ten eight 124 00:07:05,579 --> 00:07:08,819 Speaker 2: hundred in the prison muster and directions to an outstanding 125 00:07:08,939 --> 00:07:12,259 Speaker 2: job that is literally a daily event. And to make 126 00:07:12,339 --> 00:07:14,939 Speaker 2: sure that you know that we're that everyone is in 127 00:07:14,939 --> 00:07:18,019 Speaker 2: the right place and that we're dealing with capacity and riches, 128 00:07:18,099 --> 00:07:21,619 Speaker 2: doing outstanding job of that. Will the government continue to 129 00:07:21,659 --> 00:07:25,859 Speaker 2: invest into public safety? Absolutely, because although there is a cost, 130 00:07:25,899 --> 00:07:28,699 Speaker 2: of course in incarcerating people and having them in the 131 00:07:28,739 --> 00:07:32,219 Speaker 2: correction system. There is a much greater human cost and 132 00:07:32,259 --> 00:07:35,739 Speaker 2: even economic costs to have them out in society, creating 133 00:07:35,779 --> 00:07:39,259 Speaker 2: with victims and the have it that they create, and 134 00:07:39,299 --> 00:07:41,779 Speaker 2: the trail of tears that are often sitting behind that 135 00:07:41,859 --> 00:07:43,459 Speaker 2: behavior and that from offending. 136 00:07:43,619 --> 00:07:47,459 Speaker 1: Well, critics argue that prioritizing longer sentences I see does 137 00:07:47,499 --> 00:07:50,019 Speaker 1: not actually reduce reoffending rates. 138 00:07:50,059 --> 00:07:51,139 Speaker 3: How would you respond to. 139 00:07:51,139 --> 00:07:53,699 Speaker 2: That, Well, the only way you're going to reduce reoffending 140 00:07:53,819 --> 00:07:56,819 Speaker 2: rates is when those offenders genuinely want to change. They 141 00:07:56,859 --> 00:08:00,419 Speaker 2: genuinely want to embrace making good decisions. They genuinely want 142 00:08:00,459 --> 00:08:03,899 Speaker 2: to embrace and see what opportunity just apport for them 143 00:08:03,899 --> 00:08:06,819 Speaker 2: in this country. They genuinely want to embrace the training 144 00:08:06,819 --> 00:08:09,259 Speaker 2: that is offered and the support that's offered them to 145 00:08:09,459 --> 00:08:13,659 Speaker 2: come back and reintegrate with society in a positive way. Ultimately, 146 00:08:14,099 --> 00:08:17,419 Speaker 2: that is how your drive changes, each individual wanting to 147 00:08:17,459 --> 00:08:19,619 Speaker 2: make those changes in their lives and not wanting to 148 00:08:19,619 --> 00:08:22,939 Speaker 2: make bad decisions and make all the excuses for those 149 00:08:22,979 --> 00:08:25,339 Speaker 2: bad decisions. All that we can do is a country 150 00:08:25,379 --> 00:08:27,779 Speaker 2: in the state is provide them with the mechanism to 151 00:08:27,779 --> 00:08:29,419 Speaker 2: be able to do that. And I know that we've 152 00:08:29,459 --> 00:08:31,939 Speaker 2: got a big focus. In fact, we put seventy million 153 00:08:32,059 --> 00:08:36,858 Speaker 2: dollars additional money into rehabilitation programs in our correction services 154 00:08:37,218 --> 00:08:38,979 Speaker 2: so that we give them the ability of the best 155 00:08:38,979 --> 00:08:41,619 Speaker 2: fighting charts and when they do come out, they do 156 00:08:41,739 --> 00:08:44,259 Speaker 2: make good decisions. But ultimately, Chelsea, it comes to under 157 00:08:44,299 --> 00:08:47,099 Speaker 2: personal responsibility. It comes down to each one of those 158 00:08:47,099 --> 00:08:50,738 Speaker 2: individuals wanting to make change and until they do, until 159 00:08:50,739 --> 00:08:53,419 Speaker 2: they actually want to make change. In my view and 160 00:08:53,458 --> 00:08:56,819 Speaker 2: my opinion and my experience, you can throw all the goodwill, 161 00:08:57,019 --> 00:08:59,578 Speaker 2: all the programs and all the investment you want at 162 00:08:59,618 --> 00:09:02,299 Speaker 2: those people. They will not change until they want to. 163 00:09:08,458 --> 00:09:12,259 Speaker 4: As I said before, gangs are not nice people. Minister 164 00:09:12,299 --> 00:09:14,739 Speaker 4: man Sure, Minister Goldsmith and I campaign on cracking down 165 00:09:14,738 --> 00:09:17,739 Speaker 4: on gangs and making their life as uncomfortable as possible, 166 00:09:18,059 --> 00:09:20,059 Speaker 4: and that is exactly why we have passed the laws. 167 00:09:20,059 --> 00:09:23,139 Speaker 4: We have to ban all gang patches and insignia in 168 00:09:23,179 --> 00:09:26,299 Speaker 4: public places to empower the police to stop criminal gangs 169 00:09:26,299 --> 00:09:29,779 Speaker 4: from associating and communicating with each other, enabling the courts 170 00:09:29,779 --> 00:09:32,659 Speaker 4: to issue non consulting orders to gang members, and we're 171 00:09:32,738 --> 00:09:35,578 Speaker 4: ensuring that greater weight as given to gang membership at 172 00:09:35,659 --> 00:09:38,778 Speaker 4: sentencing as well, enabling the courts to enact even more 173 00:09:38,819 --> 00:09:39,779 Speaker 4: severe punishments. 174 00:09:41,819 --> 00:09:44,578 Speaker 1: I remember when you first became police minister, you actually 175 00:09:44,618 --> 00:09:46,699 Speaker 1: offered up you know, you were offering up people your 176 00:09:46,699 --> 00:09:49,218 Speaker 1: personal phone number to see you know, if you do 177 00:09:49,299 --> 00:09:52,379 Speaker 1: want to say, leave a gang, I will personally help you. 178 00:09:52,419 --> 00:09:53,978 Speaker 1: Has anyone taken you up on that offer? 179 00:09:55,059 --> 00:09:56,859 Speaker 2: No, I haven't had any. Yes, you're right that I 180 00:09:56,899 --> 00:09:59,739 Speaker 2: have headed out my number two gang members that have 181 00:09:59,779 --> 00:10:01,819 Speaker 2: indicated to me that they do want to lead change, 182 00:10:01,819 --> 00:10:04,699 Speaker 2: they do want to make change, especially those gang members 183 00:10:04,699 --> 00:10:06,579 Speaker 2: with families. So that we've because you know, the most 184 00:10:06,618 --> 00:10:10,259 Speaker 2: important thing we can do is break that into generational 185 00:10:10,379 --> 00:10:14,219 Speaker 2: gang membership. The impacts so negatively on the children that 186 00:10:14,218 --> 00:10:18,379 Speaker 2: are born into that environment, you know. So yes, of 187 00:10:18,379 --> 00:10:21,578 Speaker 2: course someone stand by always to help those that genuinely 188 00:10:21,578 --> 00:10:24,738 Speaker 2: want to make change, especially those with children. But the 189 00:10:24,738 --> 00:10:26,738 Speaker 2: flip side of it is is policemenner. So I've also 190 00:10:26,819 --> 00:10:30,059 Speaker 2: been very clear that to help affect that change, if 191 00:10:30,059 --> 00:10:31,539 Speaker 2: we have to make it very difficult to be a 192 00:10:31,539 --> 00:10:34,338 Speaker 2: game member in New Zealan, to be part of organized crime, 193 00:10:34,419 --> 00:10:36,978 Speaker 2: to be part of a group that inflicts a massive 194 00:10:36,978 --> 00:10:41,179 Speaker 2: disproportionate with them out of palm on our communities. We're 195 00:10:41,179 --> 00:10:42,739 Speaker 2: going to continue to do that as well, and the 196 00:10:42,738 --> 00:10:44,338 Speaker 2: police are being very effective of doing that. 197 00:10:45,139 --> 00:10:48,618 Speaker 1: How do you reckon the gang patch band's been going. 198 00:10:48,819 --> 00:10:52,419 Speaker 2: It's been hugely successful, it's been very effective. The feedback. 199 00:10:52,458 --> 00:10:54,578 Speaker 2: I've just come from a public meeting right now where 200 00:10:54,899 --> 00:10:59,218 Speaker 2: the feedback and the public's been extremely positive. And the 201 00:10:59,218 --> 00:11:02,819 Speaker 2: frontline police office themselves are really enjoying having those powers 202 00:11:02,819 --> 00:11:05,899 Speaker 2: so they can reassert themselves and the public can see 203 00:11:05,899 --> 00:11:08,299 Speaker 2: that our police are controlling the streets and not be 204 00:11:08,379 --> 00:11:10,458 Speaker 2: in that awful position that we were three years ago 205 00:11:10,939 --> 00:11:13,458 Speaker 2: where the gangs we're we're controlling the streets where they're 206 00:11:13,498 --> 00:11:16,499 Speaker 2: coming out and taking over the public places, intimidating them 207 00:11:16,618 --> 00:11:19,339 Speaker 2: from the public, taking over our provincial towns where they 208 00:11:19,379 --> 00:11:23,578 Speaker 2: were shutting down public rights in the public at pittstonchol 209 00:11:23,939 --> 00:11:25,738 Speaker 2: You haven't seen here that in the last two years 210 00:11:25,779 --> 00:11:28,338 Speaker 2: because the police have been so effective and putting together 211 00:11:28,379 --> 00:11:32,659 Speaker 2: gain disruption units and making sure that they're proactive and 212 00:11:32,738 --> 00:11:35,738 Speaker 2: using the new gang legislation. You know, it's a good 213 00:11:35,738 --> 00:11:38,139 Speaker 2: thing that people don't see gag pictures around anymore because 214 00:11:38,179 --> 00:11:41,098 Speaker 2: they're quite silly, designed to scier and in terminates people. 215 00:11:41,379 --> 00:11:44,979 Speaker 1: So we'll move on to your capacity as Minister for 216 00:11:45,059 --> 00:11:47,459 Speaker 1: Ethnic Communities, and I know that this is one that 217 00:11:47,498 --> 00:11:50,499 Speaker 1: you probably haven't been asked about as often as your 218 00:11:50,738 --> 00:11:53,218 Speaker 1: your breadth of other portfolios, I suppose. 219 00:11:54,338 --> 00:11:56,899 Speaker 3: But in that capacity you condemned. 220 00:11:56,618 --> 00:12:01,419 Speaker 1: The Destiny Church march against foreign religions that was back 221 00:12:01,419 --> 00:12:05,179 Speaker 1: in June. It's pretty bone chilling to see such a 222 00:12:05,299 --> 00:12:09,179 Speaker 1: display in New Zealand and on our streets here. Do 223 00:12:09,299 --> 00:12:13,259 Speaker 1: you think what's happening overseas? And I'm thinking of those 224 00:12:13,338 --> 00:12:16,578 Speaker 1: images of you know, Nazis walking down streets in Melbourne, 225 00:12:16,618 --> 00:12:20,539 Speaker 1: for example. Do you think that's spilling over slowly to 226 00:12:20,738 --> 00:12:22,379 Speaker 1: New Zealand and are you worried? 227 00:12:22,618 --> 00:12:25,219 Speaker 2: Well, I'm working really hard as Minister of Ethnic Community 228 00:12:25,259 --> 00:12:28,498 Speaker 2: to fortify itself as a company. And we've got you know, 229 00:12:28,699 --> 00:12:32,619 Speaker 2: we've got such diversity in our country. We've got leaders 230 00:12:32,858 --> 00:12:35,819 Speaker 2: in every single one of our ethnic communities and our 231 00:12:35,858 --> 00:12:39,619 Speaker 2: faith and religious leaders that completely bind to the fact 232 00:12:39,659 --> 00:12:43,499 Speaker 2: that we should always protect what is so fundamentally important 233 00:12:43,498 --> 00:12:46,619 Speaker 2: to democracy, and that is the freedom protest and the 234 00:12:46,618 --> 00:12:49,299 Speaker 2: freedom of speech. But we can do that in a 235 00:12:49,338 --> 00:12:52,779 Speaker 2: peaceful and tolerant way. And a big part of what 236 00:12:52,819 --> 00:12:55,138 Speaker 2: I've been doing is Minister of Ethnic Communities. It's working 237 00:12:55,139 --> 00:12:57,939 Speaker 2: across all of our communities, all of our faith leaders, 238 00:12:58,539 --> 00:13:01,859 Speaker 2: reinforcing that message around social conhesion, making sure that we 239 00:13:01,899 --> 00:13:04,059 Speaker 2: don't see that type of violence start to wash up 240 00:13:04,338 --> 00:13:07,458 Speaker 2: on our own shores here in New Zealand. Be mindful 241 00:13:07,498 --> 00:13:10,539 Speaker 2: of the fact that we will see that we've seen 242 00:13:10,578 --> 00:13:13,939 Speaker 2: so much conflict and the vision around the world at 243 00:13:13,978 --> 00:13:16,299 Speaker 2: the moment that we've got to work extra hard and 244 00:13:16,338 --> 00:13:18,539 Speaker 2: making sure that if we have a community in our 245 00:13:19,059 --> 00:13:20,939 Speaker 2: and how if we have a community in New Zealand 246 00:13:20,939 --> 00:13:24,339 Speaker 2: that feels unsafe or it's fearful, that we reaped support 247 00:13:24,338 --> 00:13:26,338 Speaker 2: around them and do what we can to make sure 248 00:13:26,379 --> 00:13:27,018 Speaker 2: that we deal. 249 00:13:26,858 --> 00:13:29,179 Speaker 1: With that as part of this portfolio. And I guess 250 00:13:29,259 --> 00:13:32,539 Speaker 1: your role as Police Minister as well. Have you received 251 00:13:32,578 --> 00:13:36,978 Speaker 1: any advice from your Australian counterparts about what the stark rise. 252 00:13:37,059 --> 00:13:39,218 Speaker 3: In this kind of thing happening in Victoria? 253 00:13:39,659 --> 00:13:41,379 Speaker 2: No, I haven't, but we can all see it and 254 00:13:41,379 --> 00:13:44,339 Speaker 2: I had been out to Victoria recently. I was out 255 00:13:44,379 --> 00:13:48,419 Speaker 2: there a month ago with our permissioner for the for 256 00:13:48,498 --> 00:13:52,738 Speaker 2: the service of the plan. Victorian police officers out there, 257 00:13:53,218 --> 00:13:54,939 Speaker 2: but you can see it out of the streets, and 258 00:13:54,978 --> 00:13:58,578 Speaker 2: of course yes I came out and condemned Brian Tommockey 259 00:13:58,819 --> 00:14:01,539 Speaker 2: and the Destiny persh because they have a right to 260 00:14:01,578 --> 00:14:05,218 Speaker 2: get out there and the freedom to focus like everyone does. 261 00:14:06,179 --> 00:14:09,578 Speaker 2: But that turned into really what everyone considered was over violence. 262 00:14:09,578 --> 00:14:14,619 Speaker 2: When you start ripping flags, specifically targeting different communities and 263 00:14:14,699 --> 00:14:18,498 Speaker 2: stabbing them, that scares people. That is actually frightening, and 264 00:14:19,539 --> 00:14:22,819 Speaker 2: so they should actually reflect on the way that they 265 00:14:22,859 --> 00:14:25,299 Speaker 2: are carrying out those protests. So that applies to any 266 00:14:25,339 --> 00:14:27,459 Speaker 2: group in New Zealand. There's a way to be a 267 00:14:27,739 --> 00:14:31,299 Speaker 2: out the protest to get your messapacity from without resorting 268 00:14:31,339 --> 00:14:34,659 Speaker 2: this sort of over violent x and in the ripping 269 00:14:34,699 --> 00:14:37,339 Speaker 2: and burning the flags and trying to scare people. 270 00:14:43,699 --> 00:14:47,459 Speaker 5: There is aspects of speech which should not be allowed. 271 00:14:47,499 --> 00:14:52,499 Speaker 5: For example, people who you know say you should kill 272 00:14:52,979 --> 00:14:55,819 Speaker 5: Chelsea Daniels. She's a very bad person and she deserves it. 273 00:14:55,819 --> 00:14:57,659 Speaker 5: You probably have to edit this out. I mean, that's 274 00:14:58,859 --> 00:15:01,538 Speaker 5: all right now. That would be wrong and it's a 275 00:15:01,579 --> 00:15:05,379 Speaker 5: horrible thing to say, and arguably incitement. There are legitimate 276 00:15:05,419 --> 00:15:08,939 Speaker 5: restrictions on speech, but what's not a legitimate restriction on 277 00:15:09,059 --> 00:15:14,619 Speaker 5: speech is saying you can't say that because it's hateful 278 00:15:14,819 --> 00:15:17,499 Speaker 5: or it will offend someone or hurt someone's feelings, because 279 00:15:17,779 --> 00:15:21,099 Speaker 5: as soon as you give someone in society the power 280 00:15:21,139 --> 00:15:25,379 Speaker 5: to enforce that, it becomes impossible to restrain that power. 281 00:15:28,179 --> 00:15:29,819 Speaker 1: Do you think there needs to be better laws in 282 00:15:29,859 --> 00:15:34,339 Speaker 1: place that clearly outlines I guess what determines free speech 283 00:15:34,379 --> 00:15:36,139 Speaker 1: and what determines hate speech. 284 00:15:36,219 --> 00:15:38,939 Speaker 3: Perhaps because that's a really tricky area, isn't it. 285 00:15:39,339 --> 00:15:42,819 Speaker 2: Yes, And we shouldn't go down that rabbit hole. That's 286 00:15:42,819 --> 00:15:45,939 Speaker 2: a whole other Well, it is, it is, and the 287 00:15:45,979 --> 00:15:47,658 Speaker 2: reality of it is is that we must protect the 288 00:15:47,739 --> 00:15:51,139 Speaker 2: freedom to the freet to a speech in this country 289 00:15:51,179 --> 00:15:53,179 Speaker 2: because the minute you try to start to unfringe on that, 290 00:15:53,219 --> 00:15:56,459 Speaker 2: where do you start? When he's gone and we all 291 00:15:56,459 --> 00:15:59,739 Speaker 2: have the right to exercise our free speech. Destiny Church 292 00:16:00,579 --> 00:16:02,899 Speaker 2: chose to exercise their right pre speech in the way 293 00:16:02,979 --> 00:16:05,658 Speaker 2: that they did, and I chose to exercise my right 294 00:16:05,779 --> 00:16:07,779 Speaker 2: pre speech by coming out condemning what they did. 295 00:16:07,899 --> 00:16:11,579 Speaker 1: What's been your biggest achievement in any of your portfolios 296 00:16:11,659 --> 00:16:13,539 Speaker 1: while in governments so far? 297 00:16:14,179 --> 00:16:17,099 Speaker 2: Ah, Look, that's a really good question. Look, I'm very 298 00:16:17,099 --> 00:16:19,379 Speaker 2: proud of the work that we're doing in the way 299 00:16:19,379 --> 00:16:22,579 Speaker 2: that our police force has responded to our new set 300 00:16:22,619 --> 00:16:24,778 Speaker 2: of priorities when we came into government. I just think 301 00:16:24,819 --> 00:16:26,819 Speaker 2: the work they're doing, it's quite still the outstanding, the 302 00:16:27,099 --> 00:16:29,898 Speaker 2: anecdotal feedback I get from the public, the results that 303 00:16:29,939 --> 00:16:33,419 Speaker 2: we've seen starting to flow through. You know, I'm just 304 00:16:33,459 --> 00:16:35,979 Speaker 2: so proud of what they're doing and what they're achieving. 305 00:16:37,139 --> 00:16:40,339 Speaker 2: Emergency management. You know, I've had nineteen local states emergencies 306 00:16:40,339 --> 00:16:43,619 Speaker 2: since I've big Minister. We are making fundamental change in 307 00:16:43,619 --> 00:16:45,379 Speaker 2: the way that we look at and approach these things. 308 00:16:45,419 --> 00:16:48,619 Speaker 2: We've had report after report after our national states of 309 00:16:48,659 --> 00:16:52,099 Speaker 2: emergency highlighting the issues that we need to change. We're 310 00:16:52,099 --> 00:16:54,778 Speaker 2: doing that. We've got an investment being coming through that 311 00:16:55,019 --> 00:16:58,339 Speaker 2: back the cabinet. We've got new legislation that will provide 312 00:16:58,419 --> 00:17:01,899 Speaker 2: us a solid a platform as a country who operates 313 00:17:01,899 --> 00:17:07,059 Speaker 2: from corrections. Look, without a doubt, I am so proud 314 00:17:07,299 --> 00:17:10,379 Speaker 2: of our correction Service. All of our officers that are 315 00:17:10,419 --> 00:17:13,619 Speaker 2: either in a directions facility or out in the community 316 00:17:13,699 --> 00:17:16,979 Speaker 2: doing community related corrections work with you know, up to 317 00:17:17,019 --> 00:17:21,299 Speaker 2: twenty five to thirty thousand people one time. That is 318 00:17:21,379 --> 00:17:23,659 Speaker 2: such a difficult, challenging job, and they're dealing with some 319 00:17:23,699 --> 00:17:26,099 Speaker 2: of the most violent and difficult people that we have 320 00:17:26,179 --> 00:17:29,019 Speaker 2: in society, and there's a tens of thousands of positive 321 00:17:29,019 --> 00:17:33,339 Speaker 2: actions every week. My big focus there is what simply 322 00:17:33,379 --> 00:17:37,939 Speaker 2: been the delivery of the rehabilitation and an officer Safety 323 00:17:38,699 --> 00:17:42,779 Speaker 2: is doing great work. They've launched two products in the 324 00:17:42,859 --> 00:17:45,619 Speaker 2: last months that two trials that are going that are 325 00:17:45,699 --> 00:17:48,699 Speaker 2: very effective. Expect to report back on one of those, 326 00:17:49,339 --> 00:17:52,379 Speaker 2: Sport and Wreck. You know, that's that's a good. 327 00:17:52,179 --> 00:17:54,459 Speaker 1: I forgot about that one. 328 00:17:55,019 --> 00:17:58,819 Speaker 3: You've got your juggling so many hats, Mark, do you. 329 00:17:58,819 --> 00:18:06,898 Speaker 1: Sleep, yes, occasionally, you must be all over the place. 330 00:18:07,419 --> 00:18:09,139 Speaker 2: I've got a great team, and I'm very lucky, and 331 00:18:09,339 --> 00:18:11,339 Speaker 2: I've got a team that's been med the entire two 332 00:18:11,419 --> 00:18:14,178 Speaker 2: years and and I could not do them them do 333 00:18:14,259 --> 00:18:15,979 Speaker 2: it without them, And they're they're right behind me the 334 00:18:16,019 --> 00:18:20,219 Speaker 2: whole time, and they deserve huge recognition. And I've and 335 00:18:20,219 --> 00:18:24,059 Speaker 2: and great chief executives and and you know, so you know, 336 00:18:24,619 --> 00:18:27,099 Speaker 2: I'm very very lucky. And that's that's enabling and it 337 00:18:27,139 --> 00:18:31,459 Speaker 2: makes a minister's job much easier. I'm just trying to 338 00:18:31,459 --> 00:18:33,739 Speaker 2: think po lift out there. We've got police, we've got friction, 339 00:18:33,979 --> 00:18:39,859 Speaker 2: we've got a gifted community. If yeah, I mean that 340 00:18:39,979 --> 00:18:43,379 Speaker 2: they're all just they're all fantastic agencies. And you know, 341 00:18:43,459 --> 00:18:45,819 Speaker 2: I had the privilege of having a front row seats 342 00:18:45,819 --> 00:18:48,899 Speaker 2: seen the ten TI thousands of positive actions. I get 343 00:18:48,899 --> 00:18:52,259 Speaker 2: reports every week of the outstanding work that our friction 344 00:18:52,339 --> 00:18:54,739 Speaker 2: topics is still at mounted in prison a couple of 345 00:18:54,779 --> 00:18:57,419 Speaker 2: weeks ago, they saved the life of the prisoner. Like 346 00:18:57,459 --> 00:19:00,138 Speaker 2: I said, I've been at the recently at the police 347 00:19:00,859 --> 00:19:04,579 Speaker 2: awards ceremonies, and it's and and and Sadly, the only 348 00:19:04,619 --> 00:19:06,819 Speaker 2: time that you often hear about brichand to police are 349 00:19:06,819 --> 00:19:09,419 Speaker 2: any of these is when there's a negative story I'm 350 00:19:09,539 --> 00:19:11,419 Speaker 2: running in the media, and that's life and I sit that. 351 00:19:11,539 --> 00:19:14,619 Speaker 2: But but you know what, there's just some they do 352 00:19:14,699 --> 00:19:16,899 Speaker 2: so much positive stuff for us in the country, and 353 00:19:17,019 --> 00:19:19,019 Speaker 2: I just think we should be so thankful that the 354 00:19:19,059 --> 00:19:19,979 Speaker 2: farm that we've got them. 355 00:19:20,219 --> 00:19:23,339 Speaker 1: Have you started thinking about next year's election yet or 356 00:19:23,379 --> 00:19:25,579 Speaker 1: do you even have time to think that far ahead? 357 00:19:26,739 --> 00:19:29,499 Speaker 2: No? Not, not really because there is so much going on. 358 00:19:29,579 --> 00:19:33,339 Speaker 2: They're still we're still doing some major reforms. You know. 359 00:19:33,459 --> 00:19:35,379 Speaker 2: I think we'll start thinking about the election as we're 360 00:19:35,379 --> 00:19:38,699 Speaker 2: move into next year. But no, right at the moment, 361 00:19:38,779 --> 00:19:41,019 Speaker 2: especially with the emergency management I'll be down to South 362 00:19:41,059 --> 00:19:43,979 Speaker 2: Island for last week, you know, with the response and 363 00:19:44,059 --> 00:19:46,658 Speaker 2: the recovery is just supported with the response with right 364 00:19:46,659 --> 00:19:47,139 Speaker 2: in the middle of it. 365 00:19:47,659 --> 00:19:49,139 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, Mark. 366 00:19:49,979 --> 00:19:52,099 Speaker 2: Say thank you, Chelsea, thank you for having me on. 367 00:19:55,339 --> 00:19:58,539 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 368 00:19:58,579 --> 00:20:02,499 Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 369 00:20:02,499 --> 00:20:04,859 Speaker 1: at enzidherld dot co dot nz. 370 00:20:05,659 --> 00:20:08,539 Speaker 3: The Front Page is produced by Jane Ye. 371 00:20:08,259 --> 00:20:12,898 Speaker 1: And Richard Martin, who is also our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. 372 00:20:13,299 --> 00:20:16,539 Speaker 1: Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 373 00:20:16,539 --> 00:20:19,979 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and tune in to Morrow for another 374 00:20:20,019 --> 00:20:21,459 Speaker 1: look behind the headlines.