1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Now, a new tool has been launched to help current 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,519 Speaker 1: and former rugby players diagnose whether they have brain injuries 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 1: from head knocks. The New Zealand Rugby Players Association and 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: World Rugby and New Zealand Rugby have launched the Brain 5 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Health Service. It's going to collect brain injury data, connect 6 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: people with doctors to get a clearer indication of symptoms. 7 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: Rob Nickel is the CEO of the Players Association. 8 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 2: Hey Rob, good afternoon. 9 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: So how does this work? Is a player s that 10 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: sound in front of the computer and just answers a 11 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: bunch of questions. 12 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and look I've actually done it, so I can 13 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: talk first time experience here. But you basically you do. 14 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: You go online, you register and then you go through 15 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: a series of questions that you answer. It takes around 16 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 2: about thirty minutes. I have to say it's incredibly thorough, 17 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: not unlike the questions you would answer if you went 18 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 2: to a proper in person europsychologists. Assessment covers all aspects 19 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 2: of I guess, your history associated with contact sports, but 20 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: more importantly your sleep, your mood, your alcohol, smoking, all 21 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: the kind of screen things you would expect if you're 22 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 2: doing a sort of a well rounded screen health check 23 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 2: on someone really thorough, and then that report itself goes 24 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: off to a neuropsychologist who assesses it and also an 25 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 2: algorithm that has been developed that assesses it as well, 26 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: and those results are compared, rationalized and then sent sent 27 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: on to a neuropsychologist for you to have an appointment with. 28 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: And then what does neuropsychologists do with that information once 29 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: they've got the appointment booked. 30 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is the part that's a little bit daunting, 31 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 2: because you've got to sit in a one on one 32 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 2: zoom call basically or a video call, and you go 33 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: through a series of eleven different tests. It takes about 34 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 2: thirty minutes. You've got to really concentrate, you can't be distracted, 35 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: and you go through those tests and they're all the 36 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: kind of people will be familiar with accounting numbers two, five, 37 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: eight and then backwards type thing. But there's also diagrams 38 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: as memory recall. It's all the different modes that you 39 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: would expect to be toted on. You complete that test 40 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: over a Paier to thirty minutes, and then those results 41 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 2: are taken off and assessed. It's important to note actually 42 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: all these assess are developed by independent expert bodies, so 43 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,119 Speaker 2: not developed by World Rugby or ourselves or anything. They're 44 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 2: all world renowned best practice. And then those tests are assessed, 45 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: a report is prepared, and then that's sent back to 46 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: yourself and your general practitioner or your family health provider 47 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: depending on which country and which terminology you used. And 48 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 2: then you are prompted and your support person is prompted 49 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 2: to make sure you make an appointment with your general practitioner, 50 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 2: go sit down and go through the test results. And 51 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 2: the test results cover where you're at from I guess 52 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: a neuro health or a brain health perspective as much 53 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: as anything. Whether it's a dementia screening tool, and it's 54 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: an advanced form of dementia screening, but it also really 55 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: importantly in something we find really beneficial. It's a general 56 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 2: health screening process. So when you go to your GP, 57 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 2: you'll get the blood pressure checks, et cetera, et cetera. 58 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: So we can see a lot of benefits for anyone 59 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: frankly doing this kind of thing, but for our professional 60 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: player base it's awesome. Yeah. 61 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: So predominantly the point is to figure out, if you're 62 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: not playing anymore, whether you are actually at risk of 63 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: getting dementia. But if you are playing, whether you need 64 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: to really think seriously about whether you can handle any 65 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: more head knocks? 66 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 2: Right, Well, the starting point is for those that are 67 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: currently playing. It's a great way to get an independent 68 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: baseline assessment or where you're at from a euro or 69 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: a brain health perspective. But it's also a fantastic education tool, 70 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: so it emphasizes there's fourteen different modes. They basically say 71 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: your factors that can impact on brain health, you from sleep, smoking, 72 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: drinking excess way to all that sort of stuff. So 73 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: you get a really good education session on if you 74 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: want to look after your brain health, whether you're official 75 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 2: athlete or not. He goes all the ways and things 76 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: that you should be conscious of, and doing that is 77 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: the thing probably Asia thirty forty that's really important. 78 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: If you're a rugby plan now, if you're a rugby 79 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: plan now, or even if you're a retired rugby right, 80 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: with all the chat that we've got about head injuries 81 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: and stuff, shouldn't these guys already be doing this stuff themselves. 82 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: And if they are already doing this stuff themselves, this 83 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: announcement from you guys, I mean a cynic would say 84 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: you're just doing this to look like you're doing something 85 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: because yet the legals are coming at Yeah. 86 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: No, well I'm in Paramphathect. The league was aren'coming at us, 87 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: So we're not doing it for that reason. We just 88 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 2: want to You know, we've got a lot of players 89 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 2: that have played first class theropy in this country and 90 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: if all of them were to somehow be made an 91 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 2: appointment with the neuropsychologists and done a proper in personal 92 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: assessment in New Zealand, I think we'd overrun the industry. 93 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 2: So this is a really smart way for the future 94 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: to be able to allow players to go in at 95 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: the screening level and be rated. They've done one hundred 96 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: and eighty players so far in Ireland, Wales, Pubdominantly Island 97 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 2: and Wales, a little bit in Scotland and South Africa 98 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: and now ourselves. And of those one hundred and eighty, 99 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 2: I think you're talking low single figures in terms of 100 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 2: the ones that have required follow up, follow up intensive tree, 101 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: so which is about the rate of the general population. 102 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: I think something to note here here there is where 103 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 2: we get the concussion and we get the head injury 104 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: side of contact sport, and we know there's so much 105 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 2: research out there and information out there, but none of 106 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: it kind of makes sense, and from a player's leans, 107 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: it's really confusing. And when yousented with something like that, 108 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 2: that causes anxiety and it plays on your mind. It's 109 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: just the reality of it. If you've had a career 110 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 2: in professional rugby and you're reading all the stuff that's 111 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 2: out there at all contradicts, it's all over the show, 112 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: it's hard to make sense of and that breeds some anxiety. 113 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: What we have here is we have a mechanism where 114 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: the player can take back a bit of control, go 115 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: in and get proper top line europsychologists and assessments and 116 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 2: things like that, and get peace of mind, or modify 117 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 2: some of your lifestyles or whatever you might do to 118 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: give yourself a better outcome in terms of your long 119 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: term brain health. And the other point that I would make, 120 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: and this applies to everyone, dementia has been identified as 121 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 2: probably the number one medical and social issue the world 122 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: is facing. The rights of dementia as we age as 123 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: a population are going to be significant. And we've always 124 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 2: sort of most people if you asked to say, oh, 125 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 2: well you've been labeled, you've you've got dementia? Can you 126 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: do anything about it? And a number of people think 127 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 2: you can't, but that's not the truth. You know, what 128 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: I learned yesterday and the presentation and reading all the 129 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 2: material is you can reduce your risk of dementia and 130 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 2: the complications through each way up to fifty percent by 131 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: following a whole lot of common sense things around brain health. 132 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: And so we want that to be known to the 133 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: players as well. Players are really good at following programs, 134 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 2: They're really good at following instructions, and if it's thirty 135 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 2: or forty they're starting to show a little bit of 136 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 2: vegas or issues or are really wanting to be proactive 137 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: around managing their brain health. Out of this they'll get 138 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: a damn good inside and a whole lot of good 139 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 2: ideas of what they can do to manage it. 140 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: Rob, good to talk to you. Thank you so much 141 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: for taking the time. That is Rob Nichol, the CEO 142 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: of the Rugby Players Association. 143 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drave, listen to news 144 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the 145 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: podcast on iHeartRadio.