Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from news Talk,
Speaker 1: said by.
Speaker 2: In the open classroom, why you sample of his sample
Speaker 2: bas Wow Western class elms, Damn son.
Speaker 3: Manco and welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I did
Speaker 3: let that music run a little bit long, but I thought,
Speaker 3: now we're not a music station, but a little bit
Speaker 3: of Jimmy Boards working class Man. I don't think there's
Speaker 3: anyone out there who objected an extra four or eight
Speaker 3: bars working class Man, because and we like to tie
Speaker 3: in a little bit of music into our themes. And
Speaker 3: we even managed to tie him when we interviewed Todd McLay.
Speaker 3: My producer found a song about hunting and fishing because
Speaker 3: Todd McLay is the Minister for Hunting and fishing, and
Speaker 3: I think he's just added it to his playlist. But anyway,
Speaker 3: this is a clue as to who my guest is
Speaker 3: for Smart Money, we want your cause, by the way,
Speaker 3: I eight hundred and eighty ten eighty or text nine
Speaker 3: nine two if you have any questions as an employee
Speaker 3: or as an employer, because my my guest in the
Speaker 3: studio is an employment relations practitioner at the Whitehead Group.
Speaker 3: He's no stranger to you all or to me, and
Speaker 3: his name is Max Whitehead. Max.
Speaker 4: Good afternoon, Hey Tim are really good? Well what are welcome?
Speaker 4: That's really cool? Thanks very much?
Speaker 3: Did I give you? It's a good Read's good for
Speaker 3: a little bit of Jimmy.
Speaker 4: But I love the music. It's hyped me up as
Speaker 4: well as you.
Speaker 3: By the way, Yeah, working class man? Are you a
Speaker 3: working class man?
Speaker 5: It?
Speaker 4: Well? Yeah, I did an apprenticeship as a bato mechanic
Speaker 4: and I got my hands dirty. I didn't like it.
Speaker 4: Really literally, you didn't like having my hands dirty. Four
Speaker 4: and a half years I did an apprenticeship and they
Speaker 4: didn't like it. My hand's dirty.
Speaker 3: Actually, that's an interesting is it a different kind of dirtiness,
Speaker 3: Like if you've been painting or if you've been a gardener.
Speaker 3: There's different types of dirt. Oil. Actually, if you're a mechanic,
Speaker 3: I imagine that would.
Speaker 4: Be something that we used to clean all the parts
Speaker 4: and kerosene and whatever. The oil was everywhere and you
Speaker 4: get under a car they were dripping with oil in
Speaker 4: those good old days way.
Speaker 3: Back, and oh there we go. So he's not a
Speaker 3: working class man, Tyra, I find another song.
Speaker 6: To him.
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding us.
Speaker 4: Clerical workers do work.
Speaker 3: I've been working. I've been doing my own DIY plastering
Speaker 3: and painting.
Speaker 4: Look at your hands, I mean they're just pure white
Speaker 4: like silk.
Speaker 3: Well that bit of white there is actually paint, I
Speaker 3: should point out, it's only a tiny fleck. Anyway, Hey, look,
Speaker 3: we want your cause if you have a a question
Speaker 3: around employment or your position, but also it might be
Speaker 3: a tactical question about how to manage your relationship within
Speaker 3: the workplace. Because there's one thing to have rules and
Speaker 3: this is what you can't do, this is what you
Speaker 3: can do. But there's also another thing about pragmatism and
Speaker 3: managing the relationship that you have, either as an employer
Speaker 3: or as an employee. In fact, that is a big
Speaker 3: part of advice that you would probably give to people
Speaker 3: because if you're baxing against the wall, okay, you're in
Speaker 3: a legal situation, you're going to go with it. But
Speaker 3: often max with employees and employers, it's all about managing
Speaker 3: that relationship sort of within and at the edges of
Speaker 3: the rules.
Speaker 4: And one of the complaints I get all the time
Speaker 4: right now is, hey, look, my workers just feel entitled.
Speaker 4: They come to me and say I want this, I
Speaker 4: want that, and they need this. Can you provide it
Speaker 4: for me now? And by the way, I deserve it.
Speaker 3: Well, because one of the questions we've got about is
Speaker 3: the whole thing about is it worth going above and beyond,
Speaker 3: in other words, doing things that are not strictly in
Speaker 3: accordance with your job title. It might even be behind
Speaker 3: for half an hour, staying behind for an hour to
Speaker 3: finish something off. And that's a waxing and waning situation,
Speaker 3: isn't it. Because if you're in a when businesses are
Speaker 3: finding it tough and you want your employer's company to survive,
Speaker 3: sometimes people do go the extra mile. But then with
Speaker 3: the employer at some stage there's a quid pro quo,
Speaker 3: isn't that?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Now, look that's really an important issue here
Speaker 4: because I mean, it works very much with employees. You
Speaker 4: give them a benefit and which is over and above.
Speaker 4: You know, the employee gives them a benefit, they'll consider
Speaker 4: it there right after a few months, and so it's
Speaker 4: the same thing happens the other way around. So if
Speaker 4: you're giving their boss or bit the extra, then you
Speaker 4: pull it back the boss has miffed, what the hell's
Speaker 4: going on?
Speaker 3: This is one of the questions we've got for you.
Speaker 3: Have you gone above and beyond? And if you did,
Speaker 3: how long did you do it before you thought? Okay,
Speaker 3: hang on a minute. I'm giving a bit extra here.
Speaker 3: I think it's time it was recognized because there is that.
Speaker 3: It's an ebb and the flow. There's a waxing and
Speaker 3: a waning of goodwill. So is it worth going above
Speaker 3: and beyond? And if it is, what do you expect
Speaker 3: and return? Do you actually spell that out? When do
Speaker 3: you spell it out? Do you keep quiet and just
Speaker 3: hope for you know that somehow the hard work will
Speaker 3: pay off. Give us a call. I wait, one hundred
Speaker 3: eighty ten eighty. Any other questions you've got around employment,
Speaker 3: Max is here to help. You can contact him also
Speaker 3: at the white Head group. He's easy to find. Look
Speaker 3: you just look up Max Whitehead, type of umployment and
Speaker 3: he's all over it. I mean not all over, not
Speaker 3: all over the place either. That sounds like we around them.
Speaker 4: When you people are around In my place, I lie
Speaker 4: or over the disk. I mean that's how I do it.
Speaker 4: Lean there.
Speaker 3: That sounds like an HR problem, But I'll talk about
Speaker 3: later anyway. Just right, we got some calls you read
Speaker 3: or roll. Shall we get into it?
Speaker 4: Bring it on, Chris?
Speaker 3: Hello, Hi Chris, Yeah, Hi.
Speaker 6: Good evening. Does some inquiry. I wait for a government
Speaker 6: agency down here, and I just want to ask if
Speaker 6: I if it's a public public holiday and I was
Speaker 6: rosted on the day I was off because we don't
Speaker 6: meet public holiday because Monday was am I still paid
Speaker 6: for that day because you know how you get time
Speaker 6: and a half or a day in lou if you've
Speaker 6: worked a day on the public holiday. But because I
Speaker 6: wasn't on that day, do I still get paid for
Speaker 6: that day I was posted to get paid?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Chris. It's a very common question because I guarantee
Speaker 4: you paid by salary and so quite often the employers
Speaker 4: will require people to come in on a public holiday
Speaker 4: and think, well their salary covers that, Well it doesn't.
Speaker 4: It doesn't. So the answer to your question, Chris, yes,
Speaker 4: you are entitled the time and a half for the
Speaker 4: extra for work in that public holiday and a day
Speaker 4: in lou if it's normally your day off, that's what
Speaker 4: you're entitled. You haven't had your public holiday, and that's
Speaker 4: what the Act provides for you.
Speaker 6: It's all yours okay, and that's one thing. If I've
Speaker 6: only been there a short time, in the same coming
Speaker 6: to Christmas holidays for four weeks holidays because okay, we
Speaker 6: don't we're not open. Also on the public holidays.
Speaker 7: That we.
Speaker 6: Well, we don't work those. So I don't have any
Speaker 6: annual leave. I don't get any annually because I haven't
Speaker 6: been there long enough.
Speaker 4: So what happens, Chris, is such a In the Holidays Act,
Speaker 4: there's a section talks about shutdown periods. So an employer
Speaker 4: is entitled to have a shutdown period provided they've given
Speaker 4: you fourteen days notice. And then, unfortunately for you, you
Speaker 4: won't qualify to get paid the full amount. Now, since
Speaker 4: you work for a government department, they probably will give
Speaker 4: you full amount. I don't know, but their legal obligation
Speaker 4: is only to pay you eight percent of your earnings
Speaker 4: up to that date.
Speaker 3: I'm guessing they probably do cover.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, our government department stup, but most employers won't. Okay,
Speaker 4: pretty harsh on you start.
Speaker 3: Good on your Chris, thanks for you call. Hey, by
Speaker 3: the way, what is a nice diplomatic way? So you're
Speaker 3: on a salary, and I imagine for a lot of
Speaker 3: employers they're like, oh, they're on the salary, just pay
Speaker 3: them and then ask them to do whatever I want.
Speaker 3: So they've asked you to come on in a public
Speaker 3: holiday and there's no discussion about it. You've just said,
Speaker 3: obviously your own time to time and a half? How
Speaker 3: do what's the best way to raise that? And a friendly,
Speaker 3: non confrontational because you might have an employer who's thinking,
Speaker 3: what do you mean you want to be paid extra?
Speaker 3: How do you raise that?
Speaker 4: Well, the first thing you should do is check your
Speaker 4: employment agroupment because if it doesn't say that you could
Speaker 4: be required to attend work on a public holiday, you
Speaker 4: can refuse to work that day. So you could say, no,
Speaker 4: I'm not working Christmas day. I don't want to and
Speaker 4: your contract doesn't say so, so I'm not contracted to
Speaker 4: do that. But if it does, if it does require
Speaker 4: you to do that, he said, if required, you've got
Speaker 4: to attend on a public holiday and you're not very
Speaker 4: happy about it, well you can raise it with your employer,
Speaker 4: of course, and say to them, hey, is there anyone
Speaker 4: else might be more interested in that day because it
Speaker 4: is important for my family? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 4: but it's all about as you started off before, to
Speaker 4: the approach and do it in a manner saying, first off,
Speaker 4: think of it from the employe's perspective. Someone's going to
Speaker 4: work that day obviously, so is there someone else aboutable
Speaker 4: that could do it? Would you like me, boss to
Speaker 4: go and find someone else and could possibly do it.
Speaker 3: I think I've heard someone use the expression, look, I'd
Speaker 3: love to, but I just can't do it. I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: that's public holiday and I've got other commitments, and just
Speaker 3: make it sound like you would if you could, but
Speaker 3: you but you can't, and there's nothing's going to nothing's
Speaker 3: going to change it. Or is that just fibbing? Should
Speaker 3: you just say no?
Speaker 4: Well, if your boss could actually force you to, or
Speaker 4: if you didn't, if it's written in your contract that
Speaker 4: you could be working public holidays if required, and you
Speaker 4: refuse to work it, you could be disciplined for that.
Speaker 4: So that's the downside. Whether they would do it or not,
Speaker 4: it's pretty harsh. Imagine Christmas Day. I mean I must
Speaker 4: have met I was working in the norsea oil up
Speaker 4: in Scotland and I volunteered to work Christmas Day, So why.
Speaker 3: Wouldn't you I've stuck on an oil rag in the
Speaker 3: North Sea. Oh you are well, that sounds the very
Speaker 3: working class man, or are you working an account.
Speaker 4: Well, I had nothing, I had no family back on shore.
Speaker 4: I had nowhere to go. The pub did open, I
Speaker 4: believe it lunchtime on Christmas Day, and that's where I
Speaker 4: would have gone. That's probably only an oil rag. No, no, no,
Speaker 4: when I'm on land. So that's why I volunteered. I
Speaker 4: actually had to work an extra week for that guy
Speaker 4: to go home be with his family, and I'm happy
Speaker 4: with that. I was happy.
Speaker 3: Well, you probably got a bit of extra, bit of
Speaker 3: a bonus.
Speaker 4: And then they put a few They put a bottle
Speaker 4: of whiskey on.
Speaker 3: Did they Well, oh, we know maxis price. It's a
Speaker 3: bottle of whisky. There we go. At seventeen past seventeen
Speaker 3: past five, it's Saxon Moore calls Dean.
Speaker 9: Hello, Hey, Dean, this is quite a quick and hopefully
Speaker 9: if I was to resign from my position today and
Speaker 9: I have some accrued annual leave, can my employee.
Speaker 10: Make me take that leave in the time in my
Speaker 10: notice period?
Speaker 4: Yep, it is, and it's an issue that it rises
Speaker 4: quite often. But the requirement for an employee. They have
Speaker 4: to give you fourteen days notice a when to take
Speaker 4: your leave. So if it's if you've given a long
Speaker 4: notice like two months, three months, you could be in trouble.
Speaker 4: They could give you fourteen days notice to take leave
Speaker 4: between those times.
Speaker 3: But if you only have to give two weeks notice
Speaker 3: and you've got two weeks leave remaining, then that leave
Speaker 3: is up your sleeve. There we go.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so fourteen days is the magic number thet.
Speaker 11: Okay, yes, I have you got four weeks.
Speaker 10: They can turn around and go, hey, listen, you know
Speaker 10: we require you to take two weeks, but it's the
Speaker 10: last two weeks of your four weeks notice. That's sort
Speaker 10: of thing.
Speaker 4: You've got it, but they've got to give you the
Speaker 4: two weeks notice.
Speaker 3: Have you given notice or.
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 4: He's thinking about asking for a friend. Of course you
Speaker 4: are listening.
Speaker 3: Okay, I believe you.
Speaker 4: Ask me that question all the time, just on behalf
Speaker 4: of a friend. Mixed No, I mean fair enough.
Speaker 3: People are asking for friends, and we expect people to
Speaker 3: ask for friends, especially if you've got a voice that's
Speaker 3: really recognizable.
Speaker 4: But I don't think that I love that he actually
Speaker 4: took it in good humor, didn't he.
Speaker 3: Well, I suddenly wondered if he was driving, if he
Speaker 3: really had to go because something else?
Speaker 12: Was that?
Speaker 4: We laughing? Poor guy?
Speaker 3: Anyway, good sport, Right, let's carry on. Graham.
Speaker 4: Hello, Hey Graham, just inquiring about that.
Speaker 13: If you have an accident in the company vehicle, can
Speaker 13: they make you pay the excess?
Speaker 4: Well, if you were grossly negligible, possibly, if, for example,
Speaker 4: ter have a look, you were staggering around drunk and
Speaker 4: you're not allowed to drink and drive, then you possibly
Speaker 4: gram you you could be held glible.
Speaker 13: Yeah, if you're sober and just generally didn't fail to check,
Speaker 13: look whatever and pull down and someone hit you, then
Speaker 13: it's an accident, and yeah, we are we required to
Speaker 13: pay an excess?
Speaker 4: Well, they could be arguable. It's a matter of negligence.
Speaker 4: Your employer is supposed to cover you for any problems
Speaker 4: that occur during the worktime. So if it was, for example,
Speaker 4: a problem with the vehicle and that caused you to
Speaker 4: get a ticket, then they should cover it. But Graham,
Speaker 4: I think I think they could possibly hold you accountable.
Speaker 4: I would push back on it. That's what I often
Speaker 4: tell Like truck drivers, go, they took a wing mirror
Speaker 4: off or which is probably five hundred bucks. But I
Speaker 4: took a blinker light out out which is probably not
Speaker 4: that much, and the boss wants me to pay for it.
Speaker 3: Actually, that is a That is a funny one, isn't
Speaker 3: it Because if you I mean it meanings to have
Speaker 3: an accident in a company vehicle and you wouldn't imagine
Speaker 3: if you found out the excess for the company vehicles
Speaker 3: was fifteen hundred bucks or something when you haven't signed
Speaker 3: up for that. I mean, if you knew that, would
Speaker 3: you take out your own insurance for I don't know,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to be well.
Speaker 4: Actually, more and more of my advice is getting closer
Speaker 4: to actually saying to employees, get insurance because you can
Speaker 4: be held liable. You know, if you can personally be
Speaker 4: held liable for all sorts of things in the workplace.
Speaker 4: Your employer are supposed to dimnify you as the flash word,
Speaker 4: but that's the word they use from any work related issues.
Speaker 4: If they've instructed you, but you've gone off on your own,
Speaker 4: use to your own initiative about something and it's turned
Speaker 4: turkey on it, you could be in trouble.
Speaker 3: Have you had an accident gramm or are you just
Speaker 3: asking for a friend.
Speaker 13: Yeah, I had an excellent and I'm going to be
Speaker 13: asking me to pay the excess, which is about one
Speaker 13: thousand dollars. And you know, people have excellents every day.
Speaker 13: It's not through being well in all accident negligence because
Speaker 13: shouldn't have had the next.
Speaker 3: One technically, But if you were, if you were driving
Speaker 3: one hundred k and a fifty K area and had
Speaker 3: an accident, you wouldn't have much of an argument. But
Speaker 3: if you've simply it's a fifty to fifty thing, and.
Speaker 4: You said that, I mean your Graham, you said it
Speaker 4: wasn't No, I just assume that, yeah.
Speaker 13: Yeah, failing a good way to someone and there was
Speaker 13: an accident, So.
Speaker 4: Yes that pushback Graham and try the water. I think
Speaker 4: that might be the best way to go. Try the water.
Speaker 4: I mean, never go with them, see what happens, and
Speaker 4: if you might want to get somebody to help you,
Speaker 4: like myself or anyone else out there that could represent you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that. Thanks for col Graham. That is actually
Speaker 3: really interesting issue the liability of employees in the workplace,
Speaker 3: because I guess we would all assume that you're covered
Speaker 3: for things. If you're going about your business as an
Speaker 3: employee and people make mistakes and employment, and you wouldn't
Speaker 3: want to be found liable. I've got a text here
Speaker 3: that this person's partner forgot to bring in the arm
Speaker 3: on a truck, reversed it into the workshop and hit
Speaker 3: the water mains and the place flooded. The arm was broken.
Speaker 3: Cost twenty thousand dollars plus effects. I had to call
Speaker 3: the boss at eleven PM, who was who wasn't happy.
Speaker 3: I don't know how it turned out, but.
Speaker 4: You imagine those big trucks that put arms out, you know,
Speaker 4: when they have a big hydraulic foot feet actually forget
Speaker 4: to bring one of them, and it's not a good movie.
Speaker 3: I would imagine. I've callers from call some truck truck
Speaker 3: drivers regularly on talk back, and the machinery they are
Speaker 3: in charge of and the cargo they would have to
Speaker 3: be indemnified, surely, because it's a hazard of the job
Speaker 3: that there's the potential for something to go wrong, for
Speaker 3: you to break at the wrong moment or you know.
Speaker 4: I was going to tell you, Tim, I think it's
Speaker 4: important to listeners to hear this that many years ago.
Speaker 4: This shocked me that a draft person did some chabby
Speaker 4: work and eventually got fired for something else, and he
Speaker 4: took a personal grievance and they turned around and sued
Speaker 4: him for the chabby work, and the authority said, yep,
Speaker 4: you owe the boss. Now, I think it was fourteen
Speaker 4: thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: That's horrendic, that's I see.
Speaker 8: To me.
Speaker 3: That would have to be because that particular draft person
Speaker 3: had done not just a slightly dodgy job, but negligently.
Speaker 3: You know, there's scales of carelessness. Absolutely, there's mistakes that
Speaker 3: get made there and then there's a flagrant disregard for standards.
Speaker 4: Well like employees. Maybe it's time to start thinking about
Speaker 4: an employee insurance. You've got to protect yourself and in
Speaker 4: this particular case, the judiciary upheld it and they've done
Speaker 4: it before.
Speaker 3: Yeah, blimey, that is quite something. It is. We need
Speaker 3: to take a break. We're gonna come back with more
Speaker 3: calls and just attack. It's twenty four minutes past five.
Speaker 3: News Talk said, be.
Speaker 2: Love me. You can see.
Speaker 9: Stand these.
Speaker 2: Jell cares.
Speaker 3: Yuess, Welcome back to the weekn Collective. This is a
Speaker 3: smart money we're talking about employment. Actually, sure that's come
Speaker 3: up in the conversations just about employee liability and what
Speaker 3: mistakes that you might find. You actually have to write
Speaker 3: a check out poor to your employer, which should you
Speaker 3: have an insurance anyway. But we're taking calls about whether
Speaker 3: you'll be an employer and an employer. My guess is
Speaker 3: Max Whitehead from the white Head Group, and we've got
Speaker 3: a bunch of calls and we're going to carry on
Speaker 3: and just get straight into it. Neville High, Nevill, Hi.
Speaker 5: Good morning, afternoon. Just a question if a person's been
Speaker 5: employed of twenty years plus with the same company doesn't
Speaker 5: have an employment country, isn't it a contractor has never
Speaker 5: been plaid holiday play which includes his commission?
Speaker 4: Wow? Ouch, If you can prove that you're an employee
Speaker 4: in the well in twenty years of service, I'd say
Speaker 4: you are. You can go for the retrospective back six
Speaker 4: years for those holiday paid six fours to twenty four weeks.
Speaker 4: That's six months pay. And there's a penalty should apply
Speaker 4: to your employee for failing to give you a written
Speaker 4: employment agreement.
Speaker 5: Right, that's not me as someone else?
Speaker 4: Are you doing it for a friend? We've got a
Speaker 4: lot of it today that I mean, that's.
Speaker 3: So the commission that person's that your friend's working on.
Speaker 3: Is it a commission based job not regular income?
Speaker 5: No, no, it's a salary plus commission.
Speaker 2: Oh wow?
Speaker 3: Oh hell and no, no holiday has been paid.
Speaker 5: All except just as normal standard weekly pay.
Speaker 4: Do you know, nevilla, Do they do consistent hours?
Speaker 5: Most definitely do. Wow, Well the normal Monday to Friday
Speaker 5: and work you know, and yeah, work a day to friday.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well that's nevile. They'd say that they've got
Speaker 4: that employe. Must be absolutely terrified because this employee you
Speaker 4: could go after them and really cause some of the problems.
Speaker 3: Never can I just ask how? And so the time
Speaker 3: that was so, whenever that employee took time off, they
Speaker 3: were not paid anything.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, their basic salary.
Speaker 3: What are you wondering about.
Speaker 5: The whole day pay the commission? The whole day pay
Speaker 5: from one understanding has to include your your weekly salary
Speaker 5: including commission.
Speaker 3: You make sense, Yeah, okay, that's okay, that's well, that
Speaker 3: is slowly So the question is you've been on a salary,
Speaker 3: you get paid a holiday pay, but you're not getting
Speaker 3: paid any percentage on the commission or any holiday pay
Speaker 3: in relation to that. Can you claim that back. That
Speaker 3: does sound a little different, Is it different? Map?
Speaker 4: It is different, a lot different. So basically they are
Speaker 4: getting paid those salaries all the way through, so it'll
Speaker 4: be their base rate. The question to me is do
Speaker 4: they get their bonuses as well and the extra pay
Speaker 4: on top And that's been an argument for years and
Speaker 4: quite frankly no, I would say that they don't get that,
Speaker 4: but it's arguable. So it depends on the details on
Speaker 4: how this person is for into yours, what it is
Speaker 4: they're actually getting commissioned on, and how they can actually.
Speaker 10: Get in it.
Speaker 5: They're actually getting commission on everything that's sold within the gum.
Speaker 4: May, so even if they don't sell it, they get
Speaker 4: a commission based on it. Yes, see, the calculation for
Speaker 4: holiday pay is the average or ordinary whatever is the greatest.
Speaker 4: So yeah, so it could be argued that the average
Speaker 4: is up there. So it's no matter what constitutes gross pay.
Speaker 4: Now Brook van Belden's bringing in a new act because
Speaker 4: this is such a big question that she's actually going
Speaker 4: to put a new definition for what constitutes gross pay.
Speaker 3: Wow, okay, interesting, But I would say that if you
Speaker 3: if it's we're talking serious money here, you'd want to
Speaker 3: get a bit of advice on that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not as bad as I thought.
Speaker 7: It was.
Speaker 5: Company where the staff have taken the company support and
Speaker 5: one on that exact argument that I've just given you.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well that's that's the twenty years, that's that's that's
Speaker 3: quite a big deal. Last six years retrospective, No, no,
Speaker 3: six years. Yeah, that's right, okay, Okay, thanks guys.
Speaker 4: Do you know what to miss A big case. We're
Speaker 4: a big timer. He had a bonus of over a
Speaker 4: million dollars, you know, like this is a chief executive.
Speaker 4: So when he left, they gave me his outstanding holiday pay.
Speaker 4: He went back and said, no, I want all of
Speaker 4: it because I want the million dollars to be built
Speaker 4: into it.
Speaker 3: And did they went?
Speaker 4: Well, the Court of appeal for had to go the court.
Speaker 4: The court said years. The Court of Appeal said.
Speaker 3: No, okay. I guess it depends on what grounds you
Speaker 3: get the bonus. If it's for going above and beyond
Speaker 3: delivering results above what you're expected, I would say, well, no,
Speaker 3: you're leaving so bonus. But if it was something that
Speaker 3: was simply a bonus paid for you doing the job,
Speaker 3: that would be a stronger arguments. It's such a.
Speaker 4: Great You imagine how many people are on this. You
Speaker 4: imagine every car yard, all the sales reps there, Imagine
Speaker 4: in every any sale troop who gets paid incentivized.
Speaker 3: It is a big issue, right, We've got lots of
Speaker 3: callers line up, so we're going to keep going on. Josh, Hello, Hey, Josh, Mex.
Speaker 10: Tim, Hey, I need to ask hey, listen, last involved
Speaker 10: in being let go? We'll call it now. Throughout the process,
Speaker 10: what actually happened was I was put through a disciplinary
Speaker 10: process and I was sent home. And then what happened
Speaker 10: after that is I engaged with the union and we
Speaker 10: tried to mediate and where it went from there was
Speaker 10: I basically had to resign in order not to.
Speaker 3: Sort of be.
Speaker 10: Blacklisted, if that makes sense. I resigned for personal reasons. However,
Speaker 10: I was given what they call a practicing certificate. Have
Speaker 10: you heard of one of those macs? So I was
Speaker 10: given what they call a practicing certificate that was part
Speaker 10: of the agreement. But I was also told that I'm
Speaker 10: not able to get any referees from this position. When
Speaker 10: they told me that, I soon made contact with other people,
Speaker 10: other senior colleagues that I'd worked with and asked them
Speaker 10: for reference, which they were happy to give. Meanwhile, what
Speaker 10: actually happened in the background, The line manager who I
Speaker 10: worked under went around and told these people they were
Speaker 10: no longer allowed to offer a written or verbal reference
Speaker 10: on my path. I'm just wondering, is that legal?
Speaker 3: That sounds weird? What are you allowed to say what
Speaker 3: particular line of work? This is because practicing certificate sounds
Speaker 3: like a professional qualification type of thing.
Speaker 10: Yeah, so it's healthcare.
Speaker 4: It's okay, I don't understand what it's.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 10: So basically what I'm asking Max is a lot of
Speaker 10: employers want more than two references. I've got plenty of
Speaker 10: people that have vouched for me, but the company's saying
Speaker 10: these people are legally not allowed to have a reference
Speaker 10: for me on my behalf.
Speaker 4: Well, it depends that, Josh. If your union represented you,
Speaker 4: I would hope if you did a settlement and said, look,
Speaker 4: I'm prepared to resign because you were unhappy about something
Speaker 4: I did, then there I would have thought your union
Speaker 4: would have done a standard settlement agreement. The standard settlement
Speaker 4: agreement should have had in there that there will be
Speaker 4: no disparaging statements made about you.
Speaker 10: So they agreed with that, they said they can't speak
Speaker 10: a negative word about me. However, they've blocked all my
Speaker 10: previous team leaders and managers from being able to give
Speaker 10: me a written or verbal reference.
Speaker 4: So then they are they are bad mouthing you, so
Speaker 4: to interrupt you, Josh, but they are bad mouthing you
Speaker 4: to the senior people in that organization. So I'd say
Speaker 4: that you could probably challenge them and go back to
Speaker 4: union and saying, look, they are disparaging my good name here.
Speaker 10: Well I tried that, Max, I did try that, and
Speaker 10: the union set unfortunately signed on the dotted line saying
Speaker 10: that you'd walk without anything but a practicing certificate. But
Speaker 10: that's I think that's kind of no.
Speaker 4: I disagree. I think you ought to have a go
Speaker 4: and I think you ought to file it with the
Speaker 4: Employment Relations Authority and saying that there's been a breach
Speaker 4: of selling here.
Speaker 3: I would also wonder if we've got all the information
Speaker 3: that I would be I'll throw this to you, Max.
Speaker 3: It's one thing to stop an employee writing something, so
Speaker 3: one of Josh's colin, it's one thing for his employer
Speaker 3: to say you are not to give a reference on
Speaker 3: our behalf. But I would have thought, there's nothing for
Speaker 3: them to say. This is a job, this is my job.
Speaker 3: I've worked with this person and I vouched for them personally.
Speaker 3: Who can stop you doing that? That seems a bit bizarre.
Speaker 4: Oh, they probably got instructions and they're terrified. I mean,
Speaker 4: look at government departments and then Josh would be so
Speaker 4: they won't step out of line if the boss says no.
Speaker 4: But I think it's worthy worth having to go, Josh,
Speaker 4: and so check your Section one four nine settlement agreement
Speaker 4: and you're well going to contact me tomorrow and let
Speaker 4: me have a look at it for you.
Speaker 10: Okay, yeah, Max, Max, I'll just be real quick. I
Speaker 10: was going to actually try and acquire your your skills. However,
Speaker 10: I didn't want to ship fight. I wanted to walk
Speaker 10: away peacefully.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well, Josh, look, go and look up Max's
Speaker 3: look at Max's contact details on the website hundred ten eighty.
Speaker 3: And meanwhile, for anyone who wants to call the show
Speaker 3: and have a chat with Max right now, we'll be
Speaker 3: back in just the tickets coming up to twenty two
Speaker 3: minutes to sick. Yes, welcome back the Weekend Collective. This
Speaker 3: is smart money. My guess is Max Whitehead. We're in
Speaker 3: talking employment. We got cause lined up, so we're just
Speaker 3: going to keep it moving if you can, if you're listening,
Speaker 3: if we can try and be a little concise with
Speaker 3: your summary review situation, because we're going to try and
Speaker 3: get through a few more calls before we wrap it up,
Speaker 3: because time is upon us. It's nineteen minutes to six.
Speaker 3: Tracy High.
Speaker 4: Hey, Tracy, I.
Speaker 14: Know I've got a shoe with my employee that you
Speaker 14: know how you get your standard holidays for four weeks? Yea,
Speaker 14: Then they're telling us once you use your four weeks,
Speaker 14: you can start using your crude leave. I thought that,
Speaker 14: I think I thought that a crude leave is what
Speaker 14: you earn for the whole year, for your full week
Speaker 14: and your holiday. Didn't get what I mean.
Speaker 4: But you can carry it over, so that's probably what
Speaker 4: they mean. Yeah, accrudely does mean exactly that, Tracy. So
Speaker 4: but you may have even accrued some from last year
Speaker 4: which is still there, and so you had one more
Speaker 4: week from last year. You can take all that up,
Speaker 4: use it up, and then start chopping into your accrudely.
Speaker 4: If your boss is happy for you to do.
Speaker 14: That, you can do that, Okay, So even if you
Speaker 14: even if you have no holidays left and you know
Speaker 14: that you've used up your full weeks holiday, and every
Speaker 14: year you've told you you have to use your full weeks,
Speaker 14: it say isn't in our contract that you have to
Speaker 14: use full weeks within the twelve months.
Speaker 4: So usually, Tracy, it's the first year you don't. You're
Speaker 4: not allowed to take holidays the first twelve and then
Speaker 4: thereafter you you're entitled to four weeks then and it
Speaker 4: keeps accruing thereafter, so you've got piles of holidays start
Speaker 4: after that point. Then they start accruing, and so they're
Speaker 4: going to let you grab some of those holidays as well.
Speaker 14: Oh okay, because the way that they explained it is
Speaker 14: different to the way that I think it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Tracy, cheers, Okay, bye, bye, Joe, Hi, Hey, Joe.
Speaker 9: Hi.
Speaker 7: Just a quick one, a little bit like Nevil's one
Speaker 7: that seventeen years no.
Speaker 8: Contrast, Wow, get paid basically an hourly rate retainer or
Speaker 8: the year takes out my PA, ye takes out my kiwisaver.
Speaker 7: Are basically an employee, and then at the end of
Speaker 7: the year.
Speaker 8: I get for.
Speaker 7: Of generated income, so I get.
Speaker 8: The difference.
Speaker 4: So so you there's no contract that you get an
Speaker 4: hourly rate and then you get a retainer on top
Speaker 4: of that. Do you have forty percent at the end
Speaker 4: of the year, they pay you a bonus.
Speaker 7: Just a difference between what what he's paid me as
Speaker 7: my wages and then how much the forty percent is
Speaker 7: of generated income and just what the difference is. I
Speaker 7: get that as a little bonus at the end of
Speaker 7: the year. It might be like two thousand dollars or
Speaker 7: three thousand dollars.
Speaker 14: Or something like that.
Speaker 7: But he's just recently told me that before he pays
Speaker 7: that forty percent, he takes the three percent kiisavi back
Speaker 7: out of that that he's paid through my wages.
Speaker 4: So do you pay q we Savior? Do you put
Speaker 4: a contribution into KEII Saver?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 7: Okay, Basically I looks like I'm actually paying the whole
Speaker 7: seven percent out of my wages because he's taking that
Speaker 7: because he said, well, I'm not paying forty three percent commission, So.
Speaker 4: Okay, so he's but he's taken Kiwisaver out, which he's
Speaker 4: got to do for you, and it's according to it's
Speaker 4: probably deemed to be your income. So I think I
Speaker 4: think that's probably appropriate that he does do it. If
Speaker 4: it's a percentage of your gross income, then it probably
Speaker 4: is the right thing. Trace Joe, then would.
Speaker 8: That not basically kind of make me more of a
Speaker 8: contractor if he's not contributing.
Speaker 7: Any key we save this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but he's not contributing anything.
Speaker 8: Legally. Will know he's not distributing anything.
Speaker 4: Will you contact I I D and ask them what
Speaker 4: he's contributing and ask them if it's correct, and then
Speaker 4: he takes it back.
Speaker 7: Off me at the end of the year, So through
Speaker 7: i ID it looks like he is.
Speaker 8: But then he deducts that back off my commission at
Speaker 8: the end of the year.
Speaker 7: So he's not contributing, right.
Speaker 4: Talk to I D, okay and get that in writing
Speaker 4: from them, from your employer, and talk to IOD and
Speaker 4: send it to them and saying this is what's happening.
Speaker 4: Is this legitimate?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 7: When you look on the IOD website for bet all
Speaker 7: the qake payment of the that's what it looks like.
Speaker 4: He is paying that and he's actually I gotcha, No,
Speaker 4: I understand, but that deduction should give you written notification
Speaker 4: of that. Joe, take a diode.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, Sorry, I've got to keep moving, Joe,
Speaker 3: if you've got any Yeah right, we'll carry on. Rex.
Speaker 10: Hello, yeah, hello you there, Yeah, yeah hello.
Speaker 11: I'm just I wonder if I have a lead to
Speaker 11: stand on. My employeer sacked me when I was injured.
Speaker 3: I'm injured, injured at work or injured through something.
Speaker 11: Else, the injured of work? Yeah, he injured at work
Speaker 11: or I had even had an operation.
Speaker 6: In the arm.
Speaker 4: So Rix, what do you thank you for? Was it
Speaker 4: because you're injured or is it for some other reason?
Speaker 11: Well, they said that I missed an appointment of coming
Speaker 11: back to work so they can do their work planner.
Speaker 11: I missed an appointment for them to do that, And
Speaker 11: I said, well, why doctor was sending the medical suits
Speaker 11: and I haven't even had an operation yet.
Speaker 4: On my arm. So Rex, you can you can challenge
Speaker 4: a dismissal if you feel it's been unjust and unfair,
Speaker 4: So you can take it to the judiciary if you
Speaker 4: want to. I think that they've got to have some
Speaker 4: good grounds to dismiss you, particularly if you've been an
Speaker 4: injury and its work related, but if you did something
Speaker 4: untoward and it's caused it, but you're saying now it's
Speaker 4: because you failed to actually turn up as required. So
Speaker 4: that's not a secable defense unless you've got a habit
Speaker 4: of doing that.
Speaker 11: No, No, I didn't turn up to a back to
Speaker 11: work planning meeting. I'm still injured. I'm still off work.
Speaker 11: I'm still injured. They're getting a medical suit and.
Speaker 14: So yes, so Rex.
Speaker 4: So that's what I'm saying to you. If you can
Speaker 4: challenge them for that dismissal on the basis it was
Speaker 4: just for not tuning up for one meeting, that's not acceptable.
Speaker 3: So you could challenge them on that, how would Rex
Speaker 3: begin to go about challenging get the process going on that?
Speaker 4: So you write on a letter lodging a personal grievance
Speaker 4: for unjustified dismissal, Right, okay, then and then lay it
Speaker 4: down Rex in that letter.
Speaker 3: Okay, good luck, good luck Rex. Okay. Hond a second
Speaker 3: to hey Tony.
Speaker 13: Yeah, good afternoon, Tim and Max. I think I've spoken
Speaker 13: to you briefly before, Max about the Uber situation.
Speaker 3: Remember that.
Speaker 13: Yeah, I got fired because I asked the lady to
Speaker 13: stop a kid ribbing my QR character pieces. But the
Speaker 13: gist of it is, I just wonder are you following
Speaker 13: you know, the current situation. If they're not successful in there,
Speaker 13: I've gone to the Supreme Court I think in New
Speaker 13: Zealand because I dipped out of the court to appeal
Speaker 13: this is Uber. What would be the basis that I
Speaker 13: would you be able to take an issue with them
Speaker 13: for financial compensation if the if the current case that's
Speaker 13: that's before the court.
Speaker 10: In other words, what.
Speaker 13: Would be what could I take them to this Studs
Speaker 13: Tribes Unal for money that I deemed that they owe me?
Speaker 13: Or how would I yours the best way?
Speaker 4: I've got some good news for you. The Court of
Speaker 4: Appeal actually said that you were Uber drivers are employees, so.
Speaker 13: You can they're going to take it to the court.
Speaker 13: They're going to take.
Speaker 4: What's happening is the government of saying that they're going
Speaker 4: to put some legislation. The legislating so and whether it
Speaker 4: will be appealed, they probably will. But right now you're
Speaker 4: in a position and look eighty I think it's eight
Speaker 4: hundred employees of Uber lodged to claim in the Employment
Speaker 4: Relations Authority for back pay.
Speaker 13: Yeah, okay, Well, how would I go about briefly joining
Speaker 13: that particular action? Would I have to calculate what I
Speaker 13: was earning ever a week right up until now, or
Speaker 13: how would I go? What would be the formula?
Speaker 4: Well, you'd have to be looking for retrospective holiday pay,
Speaker 4: retrospectable sick pay, those all those things that come into it.
Speaker 4: And whether there's these other people have gone through through
Speaker 4: the union, and maybe they the union may allow you
Speaker 4: to join and actually be part of that action if
Speaker 4: you wanted to.
Speaker 3: Think as I guess Tony's Tony situation won't be covered
Speaker 3: by the law change because the law change is are
Speaker 3: going to govern arrangements from here on, and isn't it no?
Speaker 4: No, they could be saying that they've always been.
Speaker 3: Improv the act is going to make it retrospective.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not sure about that. I don't think that's the.
Speaker 3: Retrospective legislation is generally a no no.
Speaker 4: So they won't do that.
Speaker 3: Well, determined on whether uber appeal to the Supreme Court
Speaker 3: or whichever.
Speaker 4: It was making a good point here that you probably still,
Speaker 4: okay Tony to lodge an application into the authority. I
Speaker 4: know they're not listening to them at the moment because
Speaker 4: they know there's going to be a change of law.
Speaker 4: But I think you've got a case.
Speaker 13: Okay, Okay, so how would I go about it? Watch
Speaker 13: the people I would contact again.
Speaker 4: So you contact the union. There's a union that are
Speaker 4: New Zealand first is it?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 4: No, it's another union. There's a union have lodged it,
Speaker 4: So give me a call afterwards, and that, you know.
Speaker 3: Get in touch with the white Hair grouping and google
Speaker 3: them for his number. It's easy to yeah, because acts
Speaker 3: of Parliament will only be generally you're quite road locking.
Speaker 3: So the existing situation with these drivers is going to
Speaker 3: go through the courts until it's until there's nowhere else
Speaker 3: to turn.
Speaker 4: I guess, and I don't think the courts will have
Speaker 4: a lot of empathy with the drivers that are actually
Speaker 4: going to claim in there if the if the law
Speaker 4: has changed, but you never know, you never know.
Speaker 3: Now nine minutes to six News Talk z B. Yes,
Speaker 3: welcome back to smart Money. We've only got time for
Speaker 3: one very quick course of Peter or where you go Peter.
Speaker 12: Hey, individual employment agreement and on it that stipulates a
Speaker 12: work location and then directly under there that has a
Speaker 12: comment it says the employee after consultation could be relocated.
Speaker 12: The question is what does consultation mean? Does that mean
Speaker 12: it can get to be done through agreement as well,
Speaker 12: or what means at the moment the management has just
Speaker 12: told people. Most people losing.
Speaker 4: Yep, And consultation means they need to talk to you,
Speaker 4: get your point of view, and then they can still
Speaker 4: make their own decision, but they've got to take it
Speaker 4: into consideration.
Speaker 3: You'll view it's like a marriage where one partner says,
Speaker 3: I consulted you, I just didn't do what you sold me.
Speaker 3: So it's a bit like that. Yeah, so consultation is
Speaker 3: just hearing feedback, but it still gives the employer the
Speaker 3: right to do sort of what they want.
Speaker 4: Doesn't Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 3: Hey, sorry, we can't continue the conversation with empeticus. We
Speaker 3: are up against the tolop. But thank you for keeping
Speaker 3: it very brief. Again, if you want to catch up
Speaker 3: with Max from the white Head Group, you just google
Speaker 3: Max white Head Employment and all your contact. You do
Speaker 3: have a website, let's give it to them.
Speaker 4: Twenty four seven ninety three, ninety three and it's dub
Speaker 4: dub dub Whitehead Group. They don't do their dub dubdub anymore,
Speaker 4: do they.
Speaker 3: That's it's so twenty ten. Anyway, thanks for coming in.
Speaker 4: Max grat I love coming in with you, Tim, It's
Speaker 4: really good fun.
Speaker 3: And thank you again to my producer Tyra Roberts. We'll
Speaker 3: look forward to your company same time again.
Speaker 4: News next weekday is good, great music.
Speaker 3: Yeah. By the way, if you've missed any of the hours,
Speaker 3: I would recommend going and looking for the Weekend collect
Speaker 3: A podcast on iHeartRadio and we get every hour up
Speaker 3: as quick as we can once the show's concluded, so
Speaker 3: they'll be there hopefully waiting for you. And Sunday at
Speaker 3: six is next. Look forward to your company next weekend.
Speaker 3: Enjoy the rest of your Sunday. Bye bye.
Speaker 1: For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
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