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Speaker 1: More Kiwi citizens leaving the country than ever before. Our

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Speaker 1: net migration thirteen thousand in the years of July twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five, down sharply from sixty three thousand the year before.

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Speaker 1: The drop comes as migrant arrivals for twenty percent departures

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Speaker 1: obviously soaring. Paul Spinley is Massi University sociologist of US

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Speaker 1: this morning, Paul.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Good morning, Rayn.

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Speaker 1: Surely it can't get much worse than this. Are we

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Speaker 1: at rock bottom?

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Speaker 2: I hope? So they are still trending down, but it

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Speaker 2: looks as though the overall net loss is panning out

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Speaker 2: at around thirteen thousand, so I'm hoping we have panned out,

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Speaker 2: bottomed out.

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Speaker 1: Where are they going?

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Speaker 2: Half of them are going to Australia, the rest are

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Speaker 2: going to other parts of the world. What's concerning is

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Speaker 2: the very sudden drop. You've mentioned the drop from last year,

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Speaker 2: but if we went back two years, the net loss

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Speaker 2: has gone from one hundred and thirty one five thousand

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Speaker 2: to thirteen thousand, so a ninety percent drop. And what

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Speaker 2: we are seeing more people who are leaving and who

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Speaker 2: let me rephrase this, there are older people leaving, so

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Speaker 2: we're seeing we've always seen twenty somethings, but we've seen

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Speaker 2: thirty somethings leaving, which suggests that they've been qualified and

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Speaker 2: part of our workforce and then are leaving to go

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Speaker 2: to another country. So that is a concern and.

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Speaker 1: Being replaced by twenty somethings coming.

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Speaker 2: In by twenty something's coming in. Yes. And the other thing,

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Speaker 2: there's some news coming out of Australia that the new

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Speaker 2: ze New Zealand citizens who are arriving there, half of

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Speaker 2: them were not born in New Zealand. Now in the past,

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Speaker 2: I know it's a common myth that people thought they

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Speaker 2: came to New Zealand, got residency and then moved to Australia.

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Speaker 2: In fact, that wasn't the pastern most of the people

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Speaker 2: who were going to Australia when New Zealand's citizens had

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Speaker 2: been born here. But we're seeing we're seeing more more

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Speaker 2: people who've migrated to New Zealand now on migrating to Australia.

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Speaker 1: So we're becoming a gateway.

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Speaker 2: We are becoming a gateway, yes we are. And of

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Speaker 2: course Ryan just to the Australians have been actively recruiting

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Speaker 2: in New Zealand for the last couple of years, they're

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Speaker 2: offering very attractive replace packages to go to Australia. They're

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Speaker 2: offering much better salaries, better pension conditions, And so we've

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Speaker 2: got a factor in the fact that New Zealand's a

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Speaker 2: recruiting ground now for Australia. We train Australian nurses or

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Speaker 2: police officers.

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Speaker 1: What does it say about a country when you've got

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Speaker 1: twenty somethings coming in with not much experience, thirty somethings

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Speaker 1: with experience leaving and an aging population.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's a bit of a rest that they've a disaster. Really,

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Speaker 2: we've got to we've really got to relook at our

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Speaker 2: population policy overall, Ryan, because I think there's the other

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Speaker 2: thing that you hadn't mentioned is our declining fertility. So

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Speaker 2: we've got a bit of a population bomb going on.

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Speaker 2: We've got major population changes occurring and immigration is part

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Speaker 2: of that. So we've really got to think who do

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Speaker 2: we want to come to New Zealand, what age, what skills?

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Speaker 2: Do they bring? Money to invest And you've heard about

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Speaker 2: the Golden Visa recently, but at the moment that the

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Speaker 2: migration story is not a particularly positive one.

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Speaker 1: Paul, always appreciate your analysis, even if it's pretty grim

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Speaker 1: and and disturbing this morning. Professor Paul Spoonley, Massi University sociologist.

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Speaker 2: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge. Listen live

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