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Speaker 2: It's been a highly anticipated build up, Elliott. Hasn't it
Speaker 2: a good tour? Three interesting enough tour games underwhelming in
Speaker 2: some respects, But I think it's been hugely beneficial for
Speaker 2: the All Blacks to be here for that length of time,
Speaker 2: to have had a game at altitude, to have that
Speaker 2: big squad together. Dave and He's talked a lot about
Speaker 2: having a captive audience and all those sorts of things.
Speaker 2: But it's all shadow boxing, as you say. We have
Speaker 2: the two teams of the trophy, we've heard from Fitsie
Speaker 2: and every Man and their Dog, and now we're ready
Speaker 2: to rock up to Alis Park and witness what I
Speaker 2: hope will be a great occasion that is determined by
Speaker 2: the players.
Speaker 3: Yes, let's hope that is indeed the case. Let's get
Speaker 3: into the two teams first and foremost, the All Blacks named,
Speaker 3: and no real surprises. Per SAG, You'd say Fabian Holland
Speaker 3: is a bit of a surprise in the second row
Speaker 3: because it felt like they were maybe aiming to get
Speaker 3: him going in Cape Town from a test perspective, and
Speaker 3: Patrick dow belot too. Maybe Sam Dowry might have been
Speaker 3: the option here alongside Josh Lord, who I think was
Speaker 3: always locked in probably the start. I mean, what a
Speaker 3: nine to twelve months Josh Lord said. But Fabin and
Speaker 3: Holland getting the nod, was it the big surprise for
Speaker 3: you out of the run on sign?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so. Like you, I thought far been
Speaker 2: just because of the fact he missed the entire Super
Speaker 2: Rugby and the July Test coming back from that shoulder surgery,
Speaker 2: that he might have needed a wee bit more game time. Lock.
Speaker 2: He was exceptional. He has insatiable work great. He is
Speaker 2: a real line out asset in terms of stealing ball,
Speaker 2: which I think as an area of the all Black
Speaker 2: swall target the box. So my expectation was they would
Speaker 2: go of Josh Lord and Patrick two blow too, particularly
Speaker 2: after the performance from two plow two. He was pretty
Speaker 2: close to man of the match, wasn't he against Ireland
Speaker 2: at Eden Park? And I do think they will potentially
Speaker 2: miss him both from a scrummaging power perspective and ball carring.
Speaker 2: I do have some stats I have prepared for you
Speaker 2: that I'll throw you at some point to bring this in,
Speaker 2: but I don't think you can deny Fabian Holland as
Speaker 2: thoroughly deserving of his place there. And as you say,
Speaker 2: Josh Lord's been a massive mover for Bill Blacks in
Speaker 2: at the back end of Razes tenure and coming into
Speaker 2: this year. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Looking at the rest of the team, you know
Speaker 3: pretty much has gone to the way that we thought.
Speaker 3: Josh Moreby on the left wing has been a big
Speaker 3: mover so far this year since our debuting against Italy
Speaker 3: in Wellington last month, felt like he had the inside
Speaker 3: track even with Caleb Clark, or before Caleb Clark got injured,
Speaker 3: to start on the left wing for this game. And
Speaker 3: then the question marks are around the fitness of three
Speaker 3: players really, Roy guard Jordan McKenzie. All have been cleared
Speaker 3: to play this week soon A movee that McKenzie was
Speaker 3: probably the most serious out of the three, even though
Speaker 3: he had been out the shortest amount of time. But
Speaker 3: he's been cleared to go. We saw him at training
Speaker 3: on Tuesday. We get a huge amount of time to
Speaker 3: look at these things. Didn't goalkick, but seemed to be
Speaker 3: moving relatively freely for at least when I was looking
Speaker 3: at him. Apart from when we were recording a video
Speaker 3: almost got sconned a few times by some missiles coming through.
Speaker 3: But you know, is it a risk do you think
Speaker 3: getting these players in it's a four match series. I
Speaker 3: guess the importance of winning the first one is power amount.
Speaker 3: But you know, I'm sure they wouldn't be playing if
Speaker 3: they're not fully fit, but would have been better to
Speaker 3: give him, you know, another week's rest per se.
Speaker 2: We heard from Cam Roygard and Will Jordan today, didn't
Speaker 2: we end They both extremely confident that they're good to go.
Speaker 2: You know, both those guys weren't probably going to play much,
Speaker 2: particularly roy Guard even going to play thirty minutes. So look,
Speaker 2: you can only take them at their word, but players
Speaker 2: are desperate to play and they're always going to tell
Speaker 2: you they're good to go. And I think it is
Speaker 2: a rusk with McKenzie because clearly he looked, it looked
Speaker 2: awkward and he was brought off in the Shark's game
Speaker 2: and the back into the first half. I think it
Speaker 2: was Rennie was edamant it was fine, and then he
Speaker 2: said he was sweating on him and then now he's
Speaker 2: good to go, and I can just imagine McKenzie just
Speaker 2: pushing it and saying he's good, he's good, and so
Speaker 2: I think there is a risk around him that he's
Speaker 2: gonna cop so much high ball if he comes down
Speaker 2: on it awkwardly, if he gets tackled awkwardly, I think
Speaker 2: it could flare up again. So I think there is
Speaker 2: an element of rust with McKenzie.
Speaker 3: Who would move into fullback if he was injured? Do
Speaker 3: you think because Leroy Carter's on the bench, would they
Speaker 3: move Jordan? You'd move Jordan into full back and Carter
Speaker 3: comes on the wing. He wouldn't move Arett into fullback
Speaker 3: and put Anteline and Brown on at that point.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. I think Jordi Barrett's importance
Speaker 2: for Reuben and Love cannot be understated in his ability
Speaker 2: to be to help him with his eyes and ears,
Speaker 2: to help run the attack, his big kicking game as well.
Speaker 2: He can do some of those things from full back,
Speaker 2: but not to the same extent. So I'd be loath
Speaker 2: to shake that up too early. And it's our understanding
Speaker 2: as well that had Damian McKenzie been ruled out, Will
Speaker 2: Jordan would have started at fullback and not Boden Barretts
Speaker 2: so I think that's probably where they would have gone.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Interesting, that would be probably the most likely and probably
Speaker 3: the most singless option in terms of not moving too
Speaker 3: many parts of the back line around just on the bench,
Speaker 3: you know, Leroy cardigting the nod over her or Rico
Speaker 3: youani a little bit of a surprise for me. I
Speaker 3: just wonder whether that seven skill set of Leroy Carter's,
Speaker 3: and for he was a sevens player as well, and
Speaker 3: Rico in the distant past too, but with a LeRoy's
Speaker 3: ability just at altitude to try and run around the
Speaker 3: spring box a little bit might be more their thinking.
Speaker 3: You know, you don't get the power that you would
Speaker 3: with a thinny young and all for but Leroy Carter
Speaker 3: potentially just try and stretch somebody's tiring springbox defenders.
Speaker 2: Potentially, Yeah, I would have liked to have seen for
Speaker 2: him been included. I think he's much more of a
Speaker 2: point of difference in terms of his power, his ability
Speaker 2: to beat a man one on one. I think he's
Speaker 2: a really strong defender. Maybe they've still got some concerns
Speaker 2: about him under the high ball, and I think le
Speaker 2: Roy Carter certainly has a higher work rate, which Dave
Speaker 2: Rennie likes, so I would have probably gone for he
Speaker 2: and I was also surprised that they went George Bauer
Speaker 2: over Xavier new Mayor, and Rennie was asked about that
Speaker 2: at Press Current today and indicated that he was fit
Speaker 2: and that he went with George Bauer was purely a
Speaker 2: selection decision. So for me, that's probably the conservative option.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Look, he kind of huges his bets a little bit
Speaker 3: Rini because he said, you know, it was a it
Speaker 3: was a decision based on form or based on experience
Speaker 3: of George Bauer, but also to me had an Achlly's
Speaker 3: issue that saw him come off against half at half
Speaker 3: time against the Balls. So perhaps there's a little bit
Speaker 3: of you know, a little from Colin a a little
Speaker 3: from colmb sort of scenario there. Because I'm sure seeing
Speaker 3: Amiya come in again potentially for the second Eastern Cape,
Speaker 3: it surprised me to see him not play a role
Speaker 3: in this Test series.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we haven't seen a lot of them for the
Speaker 2: All Blacks, but I think when what we have seen
Speaker 2: has been very good. So he came off the bench
Speaker 2: against Islands and he started against the Bulls, albeit against
Speaker 2: a weekend Bulls team, but that was with tyro A
Speaker 2: Lomax and Cody Taylor, and that was zell Blacks by
Speaker 2: far the best scrummaging performance on this tour. So that
Speaker 2: was a relative box ticked. So yeah, I'd like to
Speaker 2: see more of Xavier Numia.
Speaker 3: Do you want to help me with those stats?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 3: Would that be all right?
Speaker 2: It is timely? Yeah, why not? So? I think these stats, Elliott,
Speaker 2: they're just going to paint a bit of a picture
Speaker 2: for you here, okay, for the team's relative strengths. So
Speaker 2: since the twenty twenty three will cut South Africa boasts
Speaker 2: the four top props with the highest percentage of scrump penalties,
Speaker 2: now that's not necessarily a shock, but three of them
Speaker 2: will call low Steam Camp and young Hendrik Vessels will
Speaker 2: pack down against the All Blacks, and the other is
Speaker 2: obviously ox Niche, who's widely regarded as the world's best scrimmager.
Speaker 2: So that's clearly where they're going to come for the
Speaker 2: All Blacks, and that the stats bear that outs that
Speaker 2: they scrump for penalties, they get penalties, so they'll blocks
Speaker 2: be aware of that. But I just think without Patrick
Speaker 2: two Polo too, I do worry a little bit about
Speaker 2: the scrum strength. So that's one another telling point to
Speaker 2: where the Box generate the momentum. France and South Africa
Speaker 2: were the only teams and the three July Internationals to
Speaker 2: average four or more meters per carries. Your Blacks ranked
Speaker 2: eighth and the same window, so clearly the Box are
Speaker 2: generating a lot more go forward. And I do have
Speaker 2: concerns when I look at the composition of the All
Speaker 2: Blacks forward pack about their ability to bend and break
Speaker 2: the line.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do it as well. I think Holland is
Speaker 3: getting there, and we saw him roaming around on the
Speaker 3: weekend at loftus verse Feld. But I think especially with
Speaker 3: you know YouTube advised moved into a blindside and he
Speaker 3: adds a plenty of line out time he's I think
Speaker 3: you lose a bit by having not having an explosive six.
Speaker 2: He's not a natural six, natural six, and even though
Speaker 2: I spoke to him this sweet it's that there's a
Speaker 2: big adjustment. It wasn't on as Bingo card to play
Speaker 2: there this year, So yeah, you get more height in
Speaker 2: the LINEU, but I think you do compromise that when
Speaker 2: you compare them to a Peter Luckeye both from ball
Speaker 2: carrying and a speed and agility on the edge and
Speaker 2: just on that the two of those locks are gonna
Speaker 2: have to play eighty minutes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there was no come on there at altitude. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it is a risk, and that's why I probably would
Speaker 3: have leant towards a six to two bench in all honesty,
Speaker 3: I think especially this game at altitude, you probably could
Speaker 3: have afforded to maybe trust your back Maybe with Cam
Speaker 3: Royguard being injured and Will Jordan and Damien McKenzie, they
Speaker 3: didn't feel like they could go with a six to
Speaker 3: two bench just because those players are coming off injuries,
Speaker 3: so potentially that would have been one of the reasons.
Speaker 3: But I would have liked having a lot cover in
Speaker 3: a game like this, And maybe you go with a
Speaker 3: you Preston and a Carter or Preston and a fine
Speaker 3: Young and off is your your backline cover potentially, so
Speaker 3: perhaps that's come into it, but I would have I
Speaker 3: would have liked some lock covered when we sent had
Speaker 3: good Toto has been coming off the bench for the
Speaker 3: All Blacks over the last three four years, thirty minutes
Speaker 3: off the bench, he's been really really dynamics, a real weapon. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so I personally would have gone with a six to
Speaker 3: two bench and had in there or maybe Darry's been
Speaker 3: carrying exception. He's probably been the All Blacks best locked
Speaker 3: so far this year in terms of the test matches.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't Darry has been great. I don't think
Speaker 2: he has the same physicality as some of the other
Speaker 2: All Blacks locks and will come to the box team,
Speaker 2: I'm sure. But they have got a five to three
Speaker 2: six to two bench with on Andre Estahesen fulfilling that
Speaker 2: lestifying Anoku hybrid role. So that's a real trunk card
Speaker 2: for them and just one last step for you. In
Speaker 2: terms of the contrasts, So the All Black strength third
Speaker 2: behind France and Ireland for average attacking ruck speed in
Speaker 2: July with two point nine to five seconds. The Springboks
Speaker 2: were by far the slowest with four point two six seconds.
Speaker 2: So for all the talk about this slow pace game
Speaker 2: this week and who's telling Porky's and whatnot, that, I
Speaker 2: think that does speak to the All Black's desire to
Speaker 2: play at pace and the spring Boks probably kicking a
Speaker 2: lot more from the base and taking their time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're exactly right there. And look, this
Speaker 3: has been one of the backdrops to the week. Hasn't
Speaker 3: it the sniping? I guess you'd call it between the
Speaker 3: two sides. We saw Russy Erasmus well out Yuka Piper
Speaker 3: on Monday local time, Yucko Pipeer the former test referee
Speaker 3: of course, and our national laws advisor to South African
Speaker 3: rugby talking about how they've been perfectly within the limits
Speaker 3: of setting lineouts and various things. And then they doubled
Speaker 3: down on a Tuesday with Felix Jones coming out and
Speaker 3: pointing out a few things that the Shark Stormers Bulls
Speaker 3: coached offered up to them about what the All Blacks
Speaker 3: were doing illegally in those games, and Dave Renny coming
Speaker 3: out today and going, well, actually, no will penalise once,
Speaker 3: didn't do it again in terms of polling players down
Speaker 3: in the all or thrown players across the line that
Speaker 3: it's been once and done. So, you know, this goes
Speaker 3: back to the top around the shadow boxing is that
Speaker 3: this is all part of the theater of rugby and
Speaker 3: with the way the rules are now that both coaches
Speaker 3: have to agree to meet before they can do so,
Speaker 3: it kind of creates a scenario where they're going to
Speaker 3: do this in the media because there's no either way
Speaker 3: for it to get, you know, into the path of
Speaker 3: the referee. Really, they've got to be reading it online
Speaker 3: or you know, in the newspaper over their morning coffee,
Speaker 3: whether it's Matthew Carve or whoever it might be, because
Speaker 3: they can't meet because neither coach decided to or Russie didn't,
Speaker 3: so it meant Reddy couldn't either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really don't like the public exerting of pressure
Speaker 2: on the official zen. Look, Rennie, you could argue he
Speaker 2: might have started it by talking about the South African franchises,
Speaker 2: not the spring Box slowing the pacey reference that the
Speaker 2: Sharks taking fifty seconds to form an out and look,
Speaker 2: if we're being honest, we have seen the spring walk
Speaker 2: slow the pace, whether it be feigning injuries or using
Speaker 2: the a lot of time to go to the set piece.
Speaker 3: And there are a couple ofications els did it lost
Speaker 3: this vest help and.
Speaker 2: They're allowed to use that a lot of time? It's
Speaker 2: it's it's the other stuff. But I don't like the winging.
Speaker 2: I think it detracts from the spectacle call I don't
Speaker 2: think we needed in the game. So I think it's
Speaker 2: been left a wee bit of a sour taste because
Speaker 2: the Springboks are being very avert about that this week.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was interesting. We went to both into Russia
Speaker 3: Rasmus this Thursday team naming conference you only get in
Speaker 3: the day, and didn't really go there. Again, decided I
Speaker 3: wasn't really asked a question about it to decide, I
Speaker 3: didn't really bring it into the topic of conversation today.
Speaker 3: So maybe he's happy to let sleeping dogs lie and
Speaker 3: just get on with the game on Saturday, which I
Speaker 3: think would be good for everyone.
Speaker 2: It would just before we leave. The officials will have
Speaker 2: to be squeaky clean. I looked and Matthew Carley, the Englishman,
Speaker 2: he dished out three yellow cards. So last time Neil
Speaker 2: Blacks in South Africa, I think you're at that game
Speaker 2: in keep Town. And three more when the All Blacks
Speaker 2: said that humbling loss to the box at Twickenham. Scott
Speaker 2: Barrett cop two of those prior to the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: three World Cups. So not shy of flashing the card
Speaker 2: as Carly.
Speaker 3: No, he's not, and the All Blacks have not beat
Speaker 3: in South Africa with him in charge. They've got an
Speaker 3: zero and three record with him with the whistle they have.
Speaker 3: I think I think it's a five and three record
Speaker 3: overall with Carli, but all those wins not coming against
Speaker 3: South Africa. South Africa with a seven win two loss record.
Speaker 3: I don't know how much you reading so previous referee
Speaker 3: history and with that matters, but world right, we put
Speaker 3: it out of the match notes, so clearly something that
Speaker 3: we can talk about.
Speaker 2: You. Yeah, I think you can read more into trends
Speaker 2: and styles are referring and Carlie is certainly a stickler.
Speaker 2: He will come hard and earlier about some things. And yeah,
Speaker 2: he won't be afraid to send players to the naughty
Speaker 2: chef if he wants the stampers authority early.
Speaker 3: No, exactly. Look and look, I've had some comments about
Speaker 3: the referees previously on the podcast, but again they're not
Speaker 3: only doing what Wild Rugby's ask them too. And so
Speaker 3: let's hope that Carli, I, Mischa, Kelly Gardner and Dixon,
Speaker 3: you know, just referee to the spirit of the series.
Speaker 3: And we're not talking about a decision they mate. We're
Speaker 3: talking about a moment of brilliance that the All Blacks
Speaker 3: do or South Africa do. Let's hope we're talking about
Speaker 3: the rugby. Ultimately on the park.
Speaker 2: YEP, that's what everyone wants. Look, it's gonna be a
Speaker 2: Alice Park is one of the great arenas in world rugby.
Speaker 2: It's hard to beat and you just want the rugby
Speaker 2: to do the talking.
Speaker 4: To you do.
Speaker 3: Indeed, speaking of someone's going to do talking, you spoke
Speaker 3: to Ruben Love during the week. We'll close out the
Speaker 3: podcast the few thoughts from Ruben Love. But let's talk
Speaker 3: about the spring Box and their team. No s Calisi.
Speaker 3: At one point we thought he was out for the series.
Speaker 3: The russy Erasmus said on Monday that I might be
Speaker 3: all right for this week. Well, ultimately he's not. They
Speaker 3: don't lose a lot because Paul de Ville is in
Speaker 3: the six years he had an exceptional July window.
Speaker 2: He's the next big thing, isn't he? Twenty three year
Speaker 2: old Tyro.
Speaker 3: And Peter steff Detoy captaining them Oxnetzsche, it is good
Speaker 3: to go from that injury. You know, Malcolm Mark starts.
Speaker 3: You know a lot of questions around what they do
Speaker 3: at ten, but Sasha Feinberg and Goneozulu to start at
Speaker 3: tea and they've got Marley Liboc waiting in the wings.
Speaker 3: Remember Hondre Pollard this week. I haven't seen the last
Speaker 3: of Hondre, I'm sure in this series. So they've got
Speaker 3: plenty of options, but relatively predictable sort of team by
Speaker 3: and large from the spring Box. And you look at
Speaker 3: the back line. And he didn't have a lot to
Speaker 3: say at the media conference today, but Damian Vellen's so
Speaker 3: I can still remember how we just carved up the
Speaker 3: All Blacks last time Ada in Wellington.
Speaker 2: He's a weapon.
Speaker 3: He was absolute weapon and he was absolutely bouncing on
Speaker 3: him speaking to Jason Pine on sideline with us and
Speaker 3: he was sort of rocking after a stunning performance. And
Speaker 3: if he gets going, the All Blacks are in a
Speaker 3: bit of strife. So look, a really good spring Box
Speaker 3: team was never not going to be a good Springboks
Speaker 3: team whoever they picked. But yeah, you can look at that,
Speaker 3: and you mentioned the props and things like that before
Speaker 3: the size of the challenge. You know, now, wait's the
Speaker 3: All Blacks, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, when he rolls out that team, you're like,
Speaker 2: oh shit, you're not missing about here. No, it's gonna
Speaker 2: be bloody tough. Damien Delende playing his hundredth Just the
Speaker 2: names in that pack. Evan needs to be Yeah, Malcolm
Speaker 2: Marx will player of the Year last year. Just there
Speaker 2: multiple threats at the breakdown in particular. You know the
Speaker 2: All Backs want to play at pace. I think they
Speaker 2: are gonna find it a real challenge. They need to
Speaker 2: get their cleaners in and numbers. I think Roygard's a
Speaker 2: real asset there, his size, his ability to shake off
Speaker 2: defenders and deal with rut pressure. This is his first
Speaker 2: start against the spring Box. I'm really intrigued to see
Speaker 2: how he goes a wee bit surprised that Sasha to
Speaker 2: get the nods. Obviously they've got great depth there, but
Speaker 2: he's only had one game in two months since coming
Speaker 2: back from the ankle injury and it was really scratchy,
Speaker 2: albeit in a makeshift spring Box team. They left half
Speaker 2: their squads in South Africa for that game in Argentina.
Speaker 2: But he is the golden boy and together with Grant Williams.
Speaker 2: Does that perhaps suggest that they might play a wee
Speaker 2: bit more rugby than most people expect.
Speaker 3: Yeah, potentially, and it'll be interesting at Alice Park because
Speaker 3: I thought that they'd probably go Sasha in Cape Town
Speaker 3: and maybe start Leboc or Pollard here potentially a little
Speaker 3: bit more expansive. You know, Russ, He's talked a lot
Speaker 3: about the All Blacks and what they're going to do
Speaker 3: and the way they want to play at pace. But
Speaker 3: it wouldn't surprise me and the Springbox will scrum for penalties,
Speaker 3: but it wouldn't surprise me to see them try and
Speaker 3: take on the All Blacks alien and whether they can
Speaker 3: last Friday minutes and pace that way. But it wouldn't
Speaker 3: surprise me just to try and maybe see them try
Speaker 3: and make a statement inside that opening twenty minutes and
Speaker 3: play with a lot of heat against the All Blacks.
Speaker 2: Yes, it is a different style of ten, but he
Speaker 2: actually often or has the ability to play twelve. He's
Speaker 2: quite big and physical, so he can challenge the line,
Speaker 2: take contact, offload so that attracts defenders. He's very silky
Speaker 2: and other regards as well, but hasn't had a lot
Speaker 2: of rugby lately. But I'm sure both Tony Brown behind
Speaker 2: the scenes will be cooking up a few specials, a
Speaker 2: few specials, and i think particularly from the line outs,
Speaker 2: Neil Barnes and Jason Ryan will be trying to devise
Speaker 2: something similar. So it'd be interesting to see if they
Speaker 2: get the platform to launch those.
Speaker 3: Yeah, line still sticks me. Stick with me that Scott
Speaker 3: Robertson said back when he was Crusader's coach and Tony
Speaker 3: Brown was at the Highlanders at that point, and Scott
Speaker 3: Robertson said that Tony Brown's got more specials than Brisco's,
Speaker 3: so great, we will see what he's got up his sleeves.
Speaker 2: Just on Russy, you mentioned we went to his prescurrence today.
Speaker 2: What did you make? Was it mind games? He's adamant
Speaker 2: that the third game is going to be the defining
Speaker 2: one to the point that he was talking about and
Speaker 2: also just this level of detail of knowledge about the
Speaker 2: average minutes of the All Blacks and comparing them to
Speaker 2: the spring Box. The fact that the All Blacks have
Speaker 2: nine new players in the squad that they didn't that
Speaker 2: the spring Box didn't play last year. He nominated them
Speaker 2: all in the starting team, three in the starting team
Speaker 2: and six on the bench, and so his analysis is
Speaker 2: a very very detail. But Russy adamant that the third
Speaker 2: game in this series is going to be the defining one,
Speaker 2: to the point that managing minutes is very important keeping
Speaker 2: players fresh, which will be easier for the box given
Speaker 2: their depth, Is that taking pressure off this first test?
Speaker 2: Or what did you make of I guess just that
Speaker 2: sort of statement.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think it was a bit of a surprise in
Speaker 3: a way because I hadn't considered that sort of thought.
Speaker 3: But he's right. The third is going to be utimately
Speaker 3: defining whether some teams up to nil after two weeks
Speaker 3: and they can go and win it in Sueto in
Speaker 3: week three. I get the sentence that he thinks this
Speaker 3: is gonna be a tight series and that if you
Speaker 3: win in Sueto it's two to one, you probably go
Speaker 3: to Baltimore with a bit of momentum. It's a long flights,
Speaker 3: or to Washington, DC, wherever both the teams are going
Speaker 3: to land. He probably go with a bit of momentum,
Speaker 3: whereas the team to one down it probably isn't gonna
Speaker 3: go with as much momentum. Could be a long flight,
Speaker 3: all that sort of things. So I think he's probably right.
Speaker 3: And he sort of suggested that with Segur is that
Speaker 3: you know, if he's playing game three, then they're probably
Speaker 3: in good neck. And he compared it to the World
Speaker 3: Cup run, you know, a quarter final, semi finals finals.
Speaker 2: So we mentioned the fact they lost the first game
Speaker 2: in the British Irish Lions series, came back and won that.
Speaker 2: They were the first team in history to drop a
Speaker 2: World Cup Pool game and still respond and regroup and
Speaker 2: win that twice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, they're all about rising for the big
Speaker 3: occasion of the spring Box and they certainly know how
Speaker 3: to do it. So you know if Russy, if Russy
Speaker 3: says it, then it must be true. So well and
Speaker 3: see how it all unfolds. But the stage is a
Speaker 3: certainly set forward. You know, this game to get under Wagh.
Speaker 3: As I mentioned, you spoke with Ruben Love on this
Speaker 3: tour and got some thoughts around him. Fascinated to see
Speaker 3: how he goes. Biggest test of his career.
Speaker 2: Isn't it absolutely facing the Box in South Africa for
Speaker 2: the first time in his fourth test, seizing the reins
Speaker 2: and yeah, massive occasion for him and many others. I
Speaker 2: think he's played a wee bit within himself at times
Speaker 2: and it's going to be interesting to see how that
Speaker 2: stage affects him and everything from the spring Box line speed.
Speaker 2: You know, facing these things for the first time, You've
Speaker 2: got Delende and Creole and all the big Box forward
Speaker 2: pack charging it. He doesn't like bravery, but there's gonna
Speaker 2: be a lot to deal with. I think he is
Speaker 2: very inherently confident, so I don't expect them to be overawed.
Speaker 2: But I hope you've got the the confidence to throw
Speaker 2: that long ball if it's on and and not going
Speaker 2: to a shell a little bit, that'll be a fascinating scenario.
Speaker 3: Let's here about to your chat with Rubin love for
Speaker 3: now here on Rugby the Ricks.
Speaker 5: Yes, I can reflect on the year, Rubin, How's how's
Speaker 5: has it been? Probably must take a lot of confidence
Speaker 5: for everything that's even.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's definitely felt like a long, longer season than
Speaker 6: I've been spinning, for sure, because you go NonStop since
Speaker 6: since Jenny or even from the end of at all
Speaker 6: last year. It's just going to be a non stop
Speaker 6: working towards one goal for the Super Ugly Final and
Speaker 6: getting there, and then you know three days later you're
Speaker 6: on all backs camp. So yeah, it heavens real quick.
Speaker 6: And yeah, I guess there's a lot on a lot
Speaker 6: of All Becks games, so it's like the biggest calendar year.
Speaker 4: So I didn't want to try you too far here.
Speaker 6: I think we focused on frost here and the Navy's
Speaker 6: camp was just like game by game because there's so
Speaker 6: many games, especially this tour moment in Africa, there's there's
Speaker 6: eight games in something like six weeks.
Speaker 4: Just being able to take a game by game and
Speaker 4: just making sure it's pure enjoyment not becoming like a job.
Speaker 2: You've had to be patient, right, you know, and years
Speaker 2: gone by, and the seen you mentioned coming out here
Speaker 2: in twenty four and not playing, and then that last
Speaker 2: year was I think you might have played a couple
Speaker 2: of games.
Speaker 5: But how much are you relishing.
Speaker 2: Being backed you know, been throwing the keys and and
Speaker 2: and you know, running.
Speaker 4: The gator for hill Blacks.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's pretty special because, like you said, the two
Speaker 6: year period that I was there and didn't really play much,
Speaker 6: I was, I was training a lot of the time,
Speaker 6: and certainly allowed me to look at myself a little
Speaker 6: bit more like on the field and off the field,
Speaker 6: like why why I wasn't playing And purely for the
Speaker 6: fact the last two years I probably wasn't good enough.
Speaker 6: And you have to you have to take that personally
Speaker 6: and reflect on your game.
Speaker 4: And I think that was a.
Speaker 6: Big personal note for me over the last off season
Speaker 6: that I had after the NBA to all last year,
Speaker 6: it was just it's my second year, Like I haven't played.
Speaker 4: I haven't.
Speaker 6: Like cemented the position or anything like that. So it's
Speaker 6: just like I just want to put everything into this offseason,
Speaker 6: train hard, go back home and see the people that
Speaker 6: I love them and be around them and find that inspiration.
Speaker 6: And I feel like I did dead and especially that
Speaker 6: December on remember decend, December January period, it was just
Speaker 6: like br didn't see any of my teammates. It was
Speaker 6: just people that I grew up with back home, a Parmey, Foxton, Yea, and.
Speaker 4: How my parents basically lived there.
Speaker 6: So I just spent all my time there and just
Speaker 6: had a common goal at the end of the off
Speaker 6: season to want to be the tenth of a Hurricans
Speaker 6: and the tenth for the all works. And it took
Speaker 6: a lot of hard work out, more like off the
Speaker 6: fielder than anything to have the self belief and I
Speaker 6: feel like I can thought, so yeah, it's worked out okay,
Speaker 6: but it's still so a long way to go and
Speaker 6: haven't done anything yet.
Speaker 5: I've spent all their fox and friends. You know, you
Speaker 5: throughout your career prior to this year, you moved between.
Speaker 2: Ten and fifteen a lot, right, how much is committing
Speaker 2: to ten and then having that time and they set
Speaker 2: off for the games.
Speaker 5: Propelled you into this position.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I just think back to but I started the
Speaker 6: Hurricanes Jason Holland believed the me when I was nineteen
Speaker 6: and then got injured for the best part of two
Speaker 6: Super seasons with microin and in their interim like Britt
Speaker 6: Cameron was unreal and I came back and paid fullback
Speaker 6: for a while. But in my head, I still believe
Speaker 6: that I was a ten and like for Chase or
Speaker 6: Alf to see me as a ten, and I think
Speaker 6: it was like twenty to twenty one and I didn't
Speaker 6: even believe in myself meant so much to me then
Speaker 6: and Clark having that conversation with me the middle of
Speaker 6: last year about where I want to play and like
Speaker 6: went back in ten. Had like them having the trust
Speaker 6: in me, and because the times bro like if anyone
Speaker 6: says they're one hundred percent of confidence in themselves every
Speaker 6: single nay.
Speaker 4: Like they're life.
Speaker 6: So there were definitely times of doubt. Bad games, bad
Speaker 6: trainings came on like a roller coaster. So but them
Speaker 6: waver and support when I'll be going to sleep and
Speaker 6: night was like far right man, like, I gotta believe
Speaker 6: in myself because they do as well. And so yeah,
Speaker 6: there's those two guys support honestly meant the world to me.
Speaker 4: Even when I was an All Backs environment.
Speaker 6: Those two were text me health or Jason Holland and
Speaker 6: Clark just be like, just keep pushing, keep getting rids.
Speaker 6: At ten, I definite would have been playing ten for
Speaker 6: the All Backs now if it wasn't for them, Like
Speaker 6: I genuinely believed that. So yeah, those those two allowed
Speaker 6: me to bet myself at.
Speaker 2: Ten would have been the big shift shift head to
Speaker 2: make a new game because that's similar positions are a
Speaker 2: ten and fifteen, but ten is so much more on
Speaker 2: your shoulders.
Speaker 5: From a game driving perspective, what have you learned throughout
Speaker 5: the year? What changes have you made in your game?
Speaker 6: Obviously there's a lot of tech components of it. Being
Speaker 6: able to read the game field, the momentum swings make
Speaker 6: plays more so in the middle of the field rather
Speaker 6: than the fullback who's probably a little bit wider and
Speaker 6: going like away from the technic kealies of the game.
Speaker 6: That's more like being like a leader, like being able
Speaker 6: to have to look at myself. How's my body language?
Speaker 6: How am I presenting myself to the team. Am I
Speaker 6: giving the boys confidence? Am I giving energy to the boys?
Speaker 6: Orm I taking away from them? And I feel like
Speaker 6: that's a key part of where I've had to grow
Speaker 6: on TJ but helped me a lot with that, you know,
Speaker 6: through texts and calls.
Speaker 4: How man Japan's telling me like all.
Speaker 6: These little things because he's been there, played with a
Speaker 6: lot of good teams Broughs, So yeah, it's more like
Speaker 6: as a teammate, I feel like that's where I've really
Speaker 6: had to kind of look introspectively and just think, how
Speaker 6: can I lead the boys off the field just as
Speaker 6: much as on it, because you have to give confidence
Speaker 6: to the team, You have to brief life into it,
Speaker 6: and you have to believe all the players that you
Speaker 6: run because I have to present.
Speaker 4: It to everyone.
Speaker 6: So it's definitely a big change that I've got a sister.
Speaker 4: I just feel like I've got one opportunity in my love.
Speaker 6: To do something special and at the moment, it's probably
Speaker 6: this period to play ten and yeah, I just want
Speaker 6: to carry on the great legacy of teens that he's
Speaker 6: on said, and.
Speaker 5: The balance between instinctive and playing within the structure. What's
Speaker 5: it late Because.
Speaker 2: You know you've got pace, acceleration and play eyes up
Speaker 2: for the but then particular listen level. Imagine there's a
Speaker 2: lot that goes into the detail around structures and all that.
Speaker 4: Sort of thing.
Speaker 5: What's their balance?
Speaker 6: Like you're the bitty you prepare and the closer you
Speaker 6: work with the way the coaches want to play that
Speaker 6: allows you to be instinctive.
Speaker 4: And I feel like one thing that we did well.
Speaker 6: In the previous like three tests back home and enz
Speaker 6: was we all were on the same wavelength around structure
Speaker 6: and instincts, and our instincts became.
Speaker 4: I'll say, you aligned with the structures that we want
Speaker 4: to play. And yeah, like I know the running.
Speaker 6: Game for all of us is there, but it's about
Speaker 6: you know, if the weather Paxson, or if there's momentum
Speaker 6: swings in the game, how can we regain that through
Speaker 6: not necessarily in the wall could be going or we're
Speaker 6: finding it in different ways.
Speaker 4: So yeah, Like.
Speaker 6: It's been working real close with Mike. Mike Lear is
Speaker 6: an awesome coach, bro like, and he's helping. He's just
Speaker 6: around Like what you said, the instinct of players and structure,
Speaker 6: but at the moment still don't want to complicate it,
Speaker 6: Like I know these next few games are gonna be
Speaker 6: a way.
Speaker 4: Different terms sire, all the kind of things. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I keep keep riding the wave and know that.
Speaker 6: All the keys that the coaches are giving me allow
Speaker 6: us to get out of pressure moments.
Speaker 5: Touched on a wee bit neither Mike Blear, but my
Speaker 5: rings coming in as well.
Speaker 2: From the outside, it seems like there's been some big chefs,
Speaker 2: particularly on attack and that sort of thing.
Speaker 5: How much has changed and how much are you relishing
Speaker 5: what they brought to the fault?
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: He's a great coach.
Speaker 6: He's a hum One thing I really admire about him,
Speaker 6: bro as he's he's the same, Like he treats you
Speaker 6: the same no matter how you play and this na Yeah,
Speaker 6: so just like the man he is off the field,
Speaker 6: like he's honorable, he's everything you wanted to coach.
Speaker 4: But like he's straightforward to the point.
Speaker 6: And I've only had a few of those coaches in
Speaker 6: my career, but those are the ones that get the
Speaker 6: best out of the whole group, not just in particular players.
Speaker 6: But yeah, he's got a great mind for for counter attacks.
Speaker 6: He's really taken charge on encounter and there's little nuanswers
Speaker 6: in our attack. I don't want to speak about too much,
Speaker 6: but there's no little things like short passing game. It's
Speaker 6: a long passing game, possessioning, backfield positioning. So I know
Speaker 6: he helps out a lot with the Fords too, So
Speaker 6: he must have played every position one to fifteen then
Speaker 6: thet the last time a currently.
Speaker 5: But it sort of suits suits your style as well.
Speaker 5: I guess up team play, use the ball, use.
Speaker 4: The width of lessons.
Speaker 6: I think, yeah, a lot of it's just if you
Speaker 6: see space, take it and analysts and rugby pundits want
Speaker 6: to complicate and stuff, and obviously there's a lot of
Speaker 6: technical work and technical work behind it, but the main
Speaker 6: feature is the there's space, broadtaker. We've got the New
Speaker 6: Zealand groscerries rugby producers, some of the best up footy
Speaker 6: players in the world, and in recent times we've probably
Speaker 6: sipped away from that as a more boat team. But
Speaker 6: now we just want to go back to backing one
Speaker 6: on ones and our carriers, backing our decision makers if
Speaker 6: they've got time on the ball and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 6: So Rends has all been about just if you see
Speaker 6: supposed to take it with him Sprom plus coup.
Speaker 3: Well that about does this? Good to hear from Ruben
Speaker 3: Love on the podcast and can't wait for kickoff three
Speaker 3: am Sunday, New Zealand. Time Liam give us a prediction.
Speaker 2: I was quietly confident until I saw the teams, and
Speaker 2: then I think it really hit home. Why the box
Speaker 2: of back to back Wheelchup Cup champions. Why they've won
Speaker 2: twelve in a row since their last loss at Eden Park.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna have to tip the box. I just
Speaker 2: I looked at that team. It's so formidable. You look
Speaker 2: at their bench, it's so settled. They've got cohesion right
Speaker 2: across the board. So I'd love to see the All
Speaker 2: Blacks do it, but I can't not tip the box.
Speaker 3: I'm going to be all Blacks by three.
Speaker 2: There you go based on at.
Speaker 3: Nothing much really, but it vibes. We'll see how it goes.
Speaker 3: We're back with you postgame to reflect and wrap on
Speaker 3: it all. Thanks as always to Mark Kelly for producing.
Speaker 3: We are of course powered by Folklift Solutions, lifting you
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