WEBVTT - Rugby Direct Episode 252: All Blacks v Springboks - The Great Rivalry Returns 0:00:09.093 --> 0:00:12.693 You're listening to a podcast from News Talks B Follow 0:00:12.773 --> 0:00:16.173 this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 0:00:16.613 --> 0:00:20.653 It's been a highly anticipated build up, Elliott. Hasn't it 0:00:20.693 --> 0:00:26.613 a good tour? Three interesting enough tour games underwhelming in 0:00:26.613 --> 0:00:29.053 some respects, But I think it's been hugely beneficial for 0:00:29.053 --> 0:00:31.053 the All Blacks to be here for that length of time, 0:00:31.093 --> 0:00:33.773 to have had a game at altitude, to have that 0:00:33.813 --> 0:00:36.813 big squad together. Dave and He's talked a lot about 0:00:37.613 --> 0:00:40.093 having a captive audience and all those sorts of things. 0:00:40.093 --> 0:00:43.213 But it's all shadow boxing, as you say. We have 0:00:43.253 --> 0:00:46.293 the two teams of the trophy, we've heard from Fitsie 0:00:46.333 --> 0:00:49.533 and every Man and their Dog, and now we're ready 0:00:49.573 --> 0:00:52.613 to rock up to Alis Park and witness what I 0:00:52.693 --> 0:00:56.013 hope will be a great occasion that is determined by 0:00:56.053 --> 0:00:56.573 the players. 0:00:57.133 --> 0:01:00.573 Yes, let's hope that is indeed the case. Let's get 0:01:00.573 --> 0:01:04.013 into the two teams first and foremost, the All Blacks named, 0:01:04.253 --> 0:01:09.053 and no real surprises. Per SAG, You'd say Fabian Holland 0:01:09.613 --> 0:01:11.173 is a bit of a surprise in the second row 0:01:11.253 --> 0:01:13.413 because it felt like they were maybe aiming to get 0:01:13.453 --> 0:01:16.413 him going in Cape Town from a test perspective, and 0:01:16.693 --> 0:01:19.013 Patrick dow belot too. Maybe Sam Dowry might have been 0:01:19.013 --> 0:01:21.093 the option here alongside Josh Lord, who I think was 0:01:21.133 --> 0:01:25.213 always locked in probably the start. I mean, what a 0:01:25.333 --> 0:01:27.893 nine to twelve months Josh Lord said. But Fabin and 0:01:27.933 --> 0:01:30.293 Holland getting the nod, was it the big surprise for 0:01:30.333 --> 0:01:31.373 you out of the run on sign? 0:01:31.733 --> 0:01:35.333 Yeah? I think so. Like you, I thought far been 0:01:35.533 --> 0:01:37.573 just because of the fact he missed the entire Super 0:01:37.653 --> 0:01:42.093 Rugby and the July Test coming back from that shoulder surgery, 0:01:42.333 --> 0:01:44.533 that he might have needed a wee bit more game time. Lock. 0:01:44.573 --> 0:01:48.653 He was exceptional. He has insatiable work great. He is 0:01:48.933 --> 0:01:51.973 a real line out asset in terms of stealing ball, 0:01:52.453 --> 0:01:54.093 which I think as an area of the all Black 0:01:54.133 --> 0:01:57.533 swall target the box. So my expectation was they would 0:01:57.533 --> 0:01:59.733 go of Josh Lord and Patrick two blow too, particularly 0:01:59.813 --> 0:02:03.333 after the performance from two plow two. He was pretty 0:02:03.333 --> 0:02:05.253 close to man of the match, wasn't he against Ireland 0:02:05.773 --> 0:02:09.453 at Eden Park? And I do think they will potentially 0:02:09.493 --> 0:02:12.653 miss him both from a scrummaging power perspective and ball carring. 0:02:13.613 --> 0:02:15.973 I do have some stats I have prepared for you 0:02:16.013 --> 0:02:18.973 that I'll throw you at some point to bring this in, 0:02:20.813 --> 0:02:23.653 but I don't think you can deny Fabian Holland as 0:02:23.853 --> 0:02:26.333 thoroughly deserving of his place there. And as you say, 0:02:26.413 --> 0:02:30.053 Josh Lord's been a massive mover for Bill Blacks in 0:02:30.693 --> 0:02:34.093 at the back end of Razes tenure and coming into 0:02:34.093 --> 0:02:34.813 this year. Yeah. 0:02:34.853 --> 0:02:39.773 Absolutely. Looking at the rest of the team, you know 0:02:40.053 --> 0:02:42.893 pretty much has gone to the way that we thought. 0:02:42.933 --> 0:02:48.053 Josh Moreby on the left wing has been a big 0:02:48.053 --> 0:02:51.333 mover so far this year since our debuting against Italy 0:02:51.453 --> 0:02:55.533 in Wellington last month, felt like he had the inside 0:02:55.533 --> 0:02:58.293 track even with Caleb Clark, or before Caleb Clark got injured, 0:02:58.333 --> 0:03:01.333 to start on the left wing for this game. And 0:03:01.373 --> 0:03:03.733 then the question marks are around the fitness of three 0:03:03.813 --> 0:03:07.573 players really, Roy guard Jordan McKenzie. All have been cleared 0:03:07.613 --> 0:03:11.093 to play this week soon A movee that McKenzie was 0:03:11.093 --> 0:03:13.133 probably the most serious out of the three, even though 0:03:13.373 --> 0:03:16.453 he had been out the shortest amount of time. But 0:03:16.773 --> 0:03:18.573 he's been cleared to go. We saw him at training 0:03:18.613 --> 0:03:21.653 on Tuesday. We get a huge amount of time to 0:03:21.773 --> 0:03:26.973 look at these things. Didn't goalkick, but seemed to be 0:03:27.053 --> 0:03:29.213 moving relatively freely for at least when I was looking 0:03:29.253 --> 0:03:31.853 at him. Apart from when we were recording a video 0:03:31.853 --> 0:03:36.333 almost got sconned a few times by some missiles coming through. 0:03:37.093 --> 0:03:39.373 But you know, is it a risk do you think 0:03:39.533 --> 0:03:43.573 getting these players in it's a four match series. I 0:03:43.573 --> 0:03:46.133 guess the importance of winning the first one is power amount. 0:03:46.173 --> 0:03:48.573 But you know, I'm sure they wouldn't be playing if 0:03:48.573 --> 0:03:50.613 they're not fully fit, but would have been better to 0:03:50.613 --> 0:03:52.973 give him, you know, another week's rest per se. 0:03:53.653 --> 0:03:57.613 We heard from Cam Roygard and Will Jordan today, didn't 0:03:57.613 --> 0:04:01.133 we end They both extremely confident that they're good to go. 0:04:02.973 --> 0:04:05.573 You know, both those guys weren't probably going to play much, 0:04:07.213 --> 0:04:10.653 particularly roy Guard even going to play thirty minutes. So look, 0:04:10.653 --> 0:04:12.413 you can only take them at their word, but players 0:04:12.453 --> 0:04:15.293 are desperate to play and they're always going to tell 0:04:15.333 --> 0:04:17.493 you they're good to go. And I think it is 0:04:17.533 --> 0:04:22.693 a rusk with McKenzie because clearly he looked, it looked 0:04:22.733 --> 0:04:27.533 awkward and he was brought off in the Shark's game 0:04:28.053 --> 0:04:31.093 and the back into the first half. I think it 0:04:31.213 --> 0:04:34.253 was Rennie was edamant it was fine, and then he 0:04:34.293 --> 0:04:36.453 said he was sweating on him and then now he's 0:04:36.493 --> 0:04:39.773 good to go, and I can just imagine McKenzie just 0:04:39.813 --> 0:04:42.613 pushing it and saying he's good, he's good, and so 0:04:42.733 --> 0:04:44.733 I think there is a risk around him that he's 0:04:44.773 --> 0:04:47.613 gonna cop so much high ball if he comes down 0:04:47.653 --> 0:04:51.693 on it awkwardly, if he gets tackled awkwardly, I think 0:04:51.733 --> 0:04:53.613 it could flare up again. So I think there is 0:04:53.893 --> 0:04:55.533 an element of rust with McKenzie. 0:04:56.173 --> 0:04:59.733 Who would move into fullback if he was injured? Do 0:04:59.773 --> 0:05:02.693 you think because Leroy Carter's on the bench, would they 0:05:02.693 --> 0:05:05.773 move Jordan? You'd move Jordan into full back and Carter 0:05:05.893 --> 0:05:09.413 comes on the wing. He wouldn't move Arett into fullback 0:05:09.493 --> 0:05:11.533 and put Anteline and Brown on at that point. 0:05:11.693 --> 0:05:16.533 No, I don't think so. I think Jordi Barrett's importance 0:05:16.693 --> 0:05:20.973 for Reuben and Love cannot be understated in his ability 0:05:21.053 --> 0:05:23.853 to be to help him with his eyes and ears, 0:05:24.493 --> 0:05:27.933 to help run the attack, his big kicking game as well. 0:05:28.333 --> 0:05:30.173 He can do some of those things from full back, 0:05:30.293 --> 0:05:32.653 but not to the same extent. So I'd be loath 0:05:32.773 --> 0:05:37.973 to shake that up too early. And it's our understanding 0:05:38.013 --> 0:05:42.013 as well that had Damian McKenzie been ruled out, Will 0:05:42.093 --> 0:05:45.213 Jordan would have started at fullback and not Boden Barretts 0:05:45.213 --> 0:05:46.853 so I think that's probably where they would have gone. 0:05:47.053 --> 0:05:47.333 Yeah. 0:05:47.333 --> 0:05:50.653 Interesting, that would be probably the most likely and probably 0:05:50.693 --> 0:05:53.453 the most singless option in terms of not moving too 0:05:53.453 --> 0:05:57.893 many parts of the back line around just on the bench, 0:05:58.173 --> 0:06:03.413 you know, Leroy cardigting the nod over her or Rico 0:06:03.533 --> 0:06:06.573 youani a little bit of a surprise for me. I 0:06:06.653 --> 0:06:11.213 just wonder whether that seven skill set of Leroy Carter's, 0:06:11.253 --> 0:06:13.813 and for he was a sevens player as well, and 0:06:13.933 --> 0:06:17.813 Rico in the distant past too, but with a LeRoy's 0:06:17.813 --> 0:06:21.533 ability just at altitude to try and run around the 0:06:21.573 --> 0:06:24.373 spring box a little bit might be more their thinking. 0:06:24.453 --> 0:06:26.293 You know, you don't get the power that you would 0:06:26.293 --> 0:06:28.853 with a thinny young and all for but Leroy Carter 0:06:29.293 --> 0:06:33.893 potentially just try and stretch somebody's tiring springbox defenders. 0:06:33.893 --> 0:06:36.013 Potentially, Yeah, I would have liked to have seen for 0:06:36.133 --> 0:06:39.653 him been included. I think he's much more of a 0:06:39.693 --> 0:06:44.133 point of difference in terms of his power, his ability 0:06:44.173 --> 0:06:45.493 to beat a man one on one. I think he's 0:06:45.533 --> 0:06:48.493 a really strong defender. Maybe they've still got some concerns 0:06:48.533 --> 0:06:50.573 about him under the high ball, and I think le 0:06:50.693 --> 0:06:54.093 Roy Carter certainly has a higher work rate, which Dave 0:06:54.133 --> 0:06:57.293 Rennie likes, so I would have probably gone for he 0:06:57.573 --> 0:07:01.093 and I was also surprised that they went George Bauer 0:07:01.213 --> 0:07:04.173 over Xavier new Mayor, and Rennie was asked about that 0:07:04.173 --> 0:07:06.733 at Press Current today and indicated that he was fit 0:07:06.973 --> 0:07:08.733 and that he went with George Bauer was purely a 0:07:08.813 --> 0:07:13.933 selection decision. So for me, that's probably the conservative option. 0:07:14.693 --> 0:07:15.413 Yeah. 0:07:15.453 --> 0:07:17.093 Look, he kind of huges his bets a little bit 0:07:17.133 --> 0:07:19.493 Rini because he said, you know, it was a it 0:07:19.493 --> 0:07:21.893 was a decision based on form or based on experience 0:07:21.933 --> 0:07:24.933 of George Bauer, but also to me had an Achlly's 0:07:25.253 --> 0:07:27.453 issue that saw him come off against half at half 0:07:27.453 --> 0:07:30.573 time against the Balls. So perhaps there's a little bit 0:07:30.613 --> 0:07:32.293 of you know, a little from Colin a a little 0:07:32.333 --> 0:07:36.213 from colmb sort of scenario there. Because I'm sure seeing 0:07:36.213 --> 0:07:39.733 Amiya come in again potentially for the second Eastern Cape, 0:07:40.053 --> 0:07:43.013 it surprised me to see him not play a role 0:07:43.013 --> 0:07:43.853 in this Test series. 0:07:44.013 --> 0:07:45.453 Yeah, we haven't seen a lot of them for the 0:07:45.493 --> 0:07:47.293 All Blacks, but I think when what we have seen 0:07:47.333 --> 0:07:48.973 has been very good. So he came off the bench 0:07:49.013 --> 0:07:55.213 against Islands and he started against the Bulls, albeit against 0:07:55.213 --> 0:07:57.693 a weekend Bulls team, but that was with tyro A 0:07:57.733 --> 0:08:00.493 Lomax and Cody Taylor, and that was zell Blacks by 0:08:00.573 --> 0:08:04.053 far the best scrummaging performance on this tour. So that 0:08:04.213 --> 0:08:08.773 was a relative box ticked. So yeah, I'd like to 0:08:08.813 --> 0:08:11.453 see more of Xavier Numia. 0:08:11.973 --> 0:08:13.293 Do you want to help me with those stats? 0:08:13.373 --> 0:08:13.653 Sure? 0:08:14.573 --> 0:08:15.253 Would that be all right? 0:08:15.333 --> 0:08:18.853 It is timely? Yeah, why not? So? I think these stats, Elliott, 0:08:18.893 --> 0:08:20.333 they're just going to paint a bit of a picture 0:08:20.333 --> 0:08:24.573 for you here, okay, for the team's relative strengths. So 0:08:26.213 --> 0:08:28.933 since the twenty twenty three will cut South Africa boasts 0:08:28.973 --> 0:08:33.253 the four top props with the highest percentage of scrump penalties, 0:08:33.293 --> 0:08:37.013 now that's not necessarily a shock, but three of them 0:08:37.013 --> 0:08:43.733 will call low Steam Camp and young Hendrik Vessels will 0:08:43.773 --> 0:08:46.733 pack down against the All Blacks, and the other is 0:08:46.773 --> 0:08:51.053 obviously ox Niche, who's widely regarded as the world's best scrimmager. 0:08:51.253 --> 0:08:54.293 So that's clearly where they're going to come for the 0:08:54.333 --> 0:08:58.133 All Blacks, and that the stats bear that outs that 0:08:59.333 --> 0:09:01.973 they scrump for penalties, they get penalties, so they'll blocks 0:09:02.013 --> 0:09:03.733 be aware of that. But I just think without Patrick 0:09:03.733 --> 0:09:05.893 two Polo too, I do worry a little bit about 0:09:05.933 --> 0:09:10.213 the scrum strength. So that's one another telling point to 0:09:10.253 --> 0:09:13.213 where the Box generate the momentum. France and South Africa 0:09:13.253 --> 0:09:15.853 were the only teams and the three July Internationals to 0:09:15.893 --> 0:09:19.333 average four or more meters per carries. Your Blacks ranked 0:09:19.333 --> 0:09:23.333 eighth and the same window, so clearly the Box are 0:09:23.333 --> 0:09:25.453 generating a lot more go forward. And I do have 0:09:25.533 --> 0:09:27.333 concerns when I look at the composition of the All 0:09:27.333 --> 0:09:30.133 Blacks forward pack about their ability to bend and break 0:09:30.173 --> 0:09:30.773 the line. 0:09:31.293 --> 0:09:34.693 Yeah, I do it as well. I think Holland is 0:09:34.733 --> 0:09:39.813 getting there, and we saw him roaming around on the 0:09:39.813 --> 0:09:44.693 weekend at loftus verse Feld. But I think especially with 0:09:44.973 --> 0:09:48.413 you know YouTube advised moved into a blindside and he 0:09:48.653 --> 0:09:52.773 adds a plenty of line out time he's I think 0:09:53.173 --> 0:09:55.933 you lose a bit by having not having an explosive six. 0:09:56.333 --> 0:09:59.253 He's not a natural six, natural six, and even though 0:09:59.253 --> 0:10:01.373 I spoke to him this sweet it's that there's a 0:10:01.413 --> 0:10:04.053 big adjustment. It wasn't on as Bingo card to play 0:10:04.093 --> 0:10:07.813 there this year, So yeah, you get more height in 0:10:07.853 --> 0:10:09.973 the LINEU, but I think you do compromise that when 0:10:09.973 --> 0:10:12.853 you compare them to a Peter Luckeye both from ball 0:10:12.853 --> 0:10:16.293 carrying and a speed and agility on the edge and 0:10:16.653 --> 0:10:19.573 just on that the two of those locks are gonna 0:10:19.573 --> 0:10:20.613 have to play eighty minutes. 0:10:21.013 --> 0:10:23.933 Yeah, yeah, there was no come on there at altitude. Yeah, 0:10:24.133 --> 0:10:27.693 it is a risk, and that's why I probably would 0:10:27.733 --> 0:10:30.133 have leant towards a six to two bench in all honesty, 0:10:30.173 --> 0:10:34.653 I think especially this game at altitude, you probably could 0:10:34.653 --> 0:10:38.853 have afforded to maybe trust your back Maybe with Cam 0:10:38.933 --> 0:10:43.773 Royguard being injured and Will Jordan and Damien McKenzie, they 0:10:43.813 --> 0:10:46.533 didn't feel like they could go with a six to 0:10:46.573 --> 0:10:49.253 two bench just because those players are coming off injuries, 0:10:49.293 --> 0:10:51.453 so potentially that would have been one of the reasons. 0:10:51.453 --> 0:10:54.613 But I would have liked having a lot cover in 0:10:54.693 --> 0:10:57.773 a game like this, And maybe you go with a 0:10:57.893 --> 0:11:01.693 you Preston and a Carter or Preston and a fine 0:11:01.693 --> 0:11:04.653 Young and off is your your backline cover potentially, so 0:11:05.173 --> 0:11:06.653 perhaps that's come into it, but I would have I 0:11:06.693 --> 0:11:08.293 would have liked some lock covered when we sent had 0:11:08.413 --> 0:11:11.373 good Toto has been coming off the bench for the 0:11:11.373 --> 0:11:15.253 All Blacks over the last three four years, thirty minutes 0:11:15.293 --> 0:11:18.733 off the bench, he's been really really dynamics, a real weapon. Yeah, 0:11:18.813 --> 0:11:21.053 so I personally would have gone with a six to 0:11:21.093 --> 0:11:24.253 two bench and had in there or maybe Darry's been 0:11:24.253 --> 0:11:26.893 carrying exception. He's probably been the All Blacks best locked 0:11:26.973 --> 0:11:28.813 so far this year in terms of the test matches. 0:11:29.053 --> 0:11:31.933 Yeah, I don't Darry has been great. I don't think 0:11:31.933 --> 0:11:34.173 he has the same physicality as some of the other 0:11:34.293 --> 0:11:37.093 All Blacks locks and will come to the box team, 0:11:37.093 --> 0:11:39.653 I'm sure. But they have got a five to three 0:11:39.773 --> 0:11:43.773 six to two bench with on Andre Estahesen fulfilling that 0:11:43.853 --> 0:11:47.413 lestifying Anoku hybrid role. So that's a real trunk card 0:11:47.413 --> 0:11:49.493 for them and just one last step for you. In 0:11:49.653 --> 0:11:53.013 terms of the contrasts, So the All Black strength third 0:11:53.333 --> 0:11:58.453 behind France and Ireland for average attacking ruck speed in 0:11:58.533 --> 0:12:02.373 July with two point nine to five seconds. The Springboks 0:12:02.413 --> 0:12:05.533 were by far the slowest with four point two six seconds. 0:12:05.613 --> 0:12:09.093 So for all the talk about this slow pace game 0:12:09.133 --> 0:12:12.453 this week and who's telling Porky's and whatnot, that, I 0:12:12.453 --> 0:12:15.213 think that does speak to the All Black's desire to 0:12:15.213 --> 0:12:18.253 play at pace and the spring Boks probably kicking a 0:12:18.253 --> 0:12:20.413 lot more from the base and taking their time. 0:12:20.533 --> 0:12:22.773 Yeah, I think you're exactly right there. And look, this 0:12:22.853 --> 0:12:25.253 has been one of the backdrops to the week. Hasn't 0:12:25.293 --> 0:12:29.733 it the sniping? I guess you'd call it between the 0:12:29.773 --> 0:12:33.973 two sides. We saw Russy Erasmus well out Yuka Piper 0:12:34.413 --> 0:12:38.333 on Monday local time, Yucko Pipeer the former test referee 0:12:38.653 --> 0:12:42.773 of course, and our national laws advisor to South African 0:12:42.853 --> 0:12:47.213 rugby talking about how they've been perfectly within the limits 0:12:47.253 --> 0:12:51.253 of setting lineouts and various things. And then they doubled 0:12:51.253 --> 0:12:54.093 down on a Tuesday with Felix Jones coming out and 0:12:54.093 --> 0:12:56.693 pointing out a few things that the Shark Stormers Bulls 0:12:56.733 --> 0:12:59.253 coached offered up to them about what the All Blacks 0:12:59.293 --> 0:13:02.293 were doing illegally in those games, and Dave Renny coming 0:13:02.293 --> 0:13:05.813 out today and going, well, actually, no will penalise once, 0:13:05.813 --> 0:13:08.693 didn't do it again in terms of polling players down 0:13:09.373 --> 0:13:11.293 in the all or thrown players across the line that 0:13:11.293 --> 0:13:14.493 it's been once and done. So, you know, this goes 0:13:14.493 --> 0:13:16.253 back to the top around the shadow boxing is that 0:13:16.293 --> 0:13:19.333 this is all part of the theater of rugby and 0:13:19.893 --> 0:13:22.973 with the way the rules are now that both coaches 0:13:23.053 --> 0:13:25.933 have to agree to meet before they can do so, 0:13:26.093 --> 0:13:29.333 it kind of creates a scenario where they're going to 0:13:29.333 --> 0:13:34.173 do this in the media because there's no either way 0:13:34.213 --> 0:13:37.373 for it to get, you know, into the path of 0:13:37.413 --> 0:13:40.973 the referee. Really, they've got to be reading it online 0:13:41.053 --> 0:13:43.733 or you know, in the newspaper over their morning coffee, 0:13:43.733 --> 0:13:46.613 whether it's Matthew Carve or whoever it might be, because 0:13:46.733 --> 0:13:50.253 they can't meet because neither coach decided to or Russie didn't, 0:13:50.253 --> 0:13:51.413 so it meant Reddy couldn't either. 0:13:51.733 --> 0:13:55.493 Yeah, I really don't like the public exerting of pressure 0:13:55.573 --> 0:13:59.653 on the official zen. Look, Rennie, you could argue he 0:13:59.733 --> 0:14:03.213 might have started it by talking about the South African franchises, 0:14:03.293 --> 0:14:06.493 not the spring Box slowing the pacey reference that the 0:14:06.533 --> 0:14:09.533 Sharks taking fifty seconds to form an out and look, 0:14:09.973 --> 0:14:12.173 if we're being honest, we have seen the spring walk 0:14:12.213 --> 0:14:15.533 slow the pace, whether it be feigning injuries or using 0:14:15.573 --> 0:14:17.413 the a lot of time to go to the set piece. 0:14:18.613 --> 0:14:21.333 And there are a couple ofications els did it lost 0:14:21.373 --> 0:14:22.253 this vest help and. 0:14:22.413 --> 0:14:24.013 They're allowed to use that a lot of time? It's 0:14:24.093 --> 0:14:28.333 it's it's the other stuff. But I don't like the winging. 0:14:29.013 --> 0:14:31.213 I think it detracts from the spectacle call I don't 0:14:31.213 --> 0:14:34.973 think we needed in the game. So I think it's 0:14:35.013 --> 0:14:37.293 been left a wee bit of a sour taste because 0:14:37.293 --> 0:14:40.413 the Springboks are being very avert about that this week. 0:14:40.533 --> 0:14:43.493 Yeah, it was interesting. We went to both into Russia 0:14:43.533 --> 0:14:46.493 Rasmus this Thursday team naming conference you only get in 0:14:46.573 --> 0:14:50.693 the day, and didn't really go there. Again, decided I 0:14:50.773 --> 0:14:52.613 wasn't really asked a question about it to decide, I 0:14:52.653 --> 0:14:56.413 didn't really bring it into the topic of conversation today. 0:14:56.453 --> 0:14:58.693 So maybe he's happy to let sleeping dogs lie and 0:14:58.693 --> 0:15:01.573 just get on with the game on Saturday, which I 0:15:01.573 --> 0:15:02.573 think would be good for everyone. 0:15:02.773 --> 0:15:05.973 It would just before we leave. The officials will have 0:15:06.013 --> 0:15:10.573 to be squeaky clean. I looked and Matthew Carley, the Englishman, 0:15:11.653 --> 0:15:13.853 he dished out three yellow cards. So last time Neil 0:15:13.853 --> 0:15:15.413 Blacks in South Africa, I think you're at that game 0:15:15.453 --> 0:15:18.453 in keep Town. And three more when the All Blacks 0:15:18.413 --> 0:15:21.053 said that humbling loss to the box at Twickenham. Scott 0:15:21.053 --> 0:15:23.173 Barrett cop two of those prior to the twenty twenty 0:15:23.173 --> 0:15:25.933 three World Cups. So not shy of flashing the card 0:15:25.933 --> 0:15:26.773 as Carly. 0:15:26.733 --> 0:15:28.093 No, he's not, and the All Blacks have not beat 0:15:28.133 --> 0:15:30.173 in South Africa with him in charge. They've got an 0:15:30.213 --> 0:15:33.853 zero and three record with him with the whistle they have. 0:15:33.893 --> 0:15:36.333 I think I think it's a five and three record 0:15:36.413 --> 0:15:40.573 overall with Carli, but all those wins not coming against 0:15:40.693 --> 0:15:45.093 South Africa. South Africa with a seven win two loss record. 0:15:45.173 --> 0:15:48.093 I don't know how much you reading so previous referee 0:15:48.173 --> 0:15:50.813 history and with that matters, but world right, we put 0:15:50.813 --> 0:15:52.853 it out of the match notes, so clearly something that 0:15:53.013 --> 0:15:53.693 we can talk about. 0:15:53.733 --> 0:15:57.013 You. Yeah, I think you can read more into trends 0:15:57.133 --> 0:16:01.133 and styles are referring and Carlie is certainly a stickler. 0:16:01.693 --> 0:16:05.973 He will come hard and earlier about some things. And yeah, 0:16:05.973 --> 0:16:10.693 he won't be afraid to send players to the naughty 0:16:10.733 --> 0:16:13.653 chef if he wants the stampers authority early. 0:16:13.533 --> 0:16:18.133 No, exactly. Look and look, I've had some comments about 0:16:18.133 --> 0:16:20.373 the referees previously on the podcast, but again they're not 0:16:20.373 --> 0:16:23.733 only doing what Wild Rugby's ask them too. And so 0:16:23.853 --> 0:16:30.373 let's hope that Carli, I, Mischa, Kelly Gardner and Dixon, 0:16:30.613 --> 0:16:34.173 you know, just referee to the spirit of the series. 0:16:34.253 --> 0:16:37.133 And we're not talking about a decision they mate. We're 0:16:37.133 --> 0:16:39.933 talking about a moment of brilliance that the All Blacks 0:16:39.933 --> 0:16:42.893 do or South Africa do. Let's hope we're talking about 0:16:42.893 --> 0:16:44.493 the rugby. Ultimately on the park. 0:16:44.453 --> 0:16:47.773 YEP, that's what everyone wants. Look, it's gonna be a 0:16:47.773 --> 0:16:50.133 Alice Park is one of the great arenas in world rugby. 0:16:50.173 --> 0:16:53.733 It's hard to beat and you just want the rugby 0:16:53.773 --> 0:16:54.573 to do the talking. 0:16:54.373 --> 0:16:54.893 To you do. 0:16:54.973 --> 0:16:57.053 Indeed, speaking of someone's going to do talking, you spoke 0:16:57.093 --> 0:16:59.213 to Ruben Love during the week. We'll close out the 0:16:59.213 --> 0:17:02.333 podcast the few thoughts from Ruben Love. But let's talk 0:17:02.373 --> 0:17:05.893 about the spring Box and their team. No s Calisi. 0:17:06.773 --> 0:17:08.813 At one point we thought he was out for the series. 0:17:08.853 --> 0:17:11.333 The russy Erasmus said on Monday that I might be 0:17:11.333 --> 0:17:14.533 all right for this week. Well, ultimately he's not. They 0:17:14.533 --> 0:17:16.973 don't lose a lot because Paul de Ville is in 0:17:17.013 --> 0:17:19.133 the six years he had an exceptional July window. 0:17:19.333 --> 0:17:21.453 He's the next big thing, isn't he? Twenty three year 0:17:21.493 --> 0:17:22.173 old Tyro. 0:17:22.333 --> 0:17:27.493 And Peter steff Detoy captaining them Oxnetzsche, it is good 0:17:27.493 --> 0:17:29.773 to go from that injury. You know, Malcolm Mark starts. 0:17:30.813 --> 0:17:32.293 You know a lot of questions around what they do 0:17:32.333 --> 0:17:36.093 at ten, but Sasha Feinberg and Goneozulu to start at 0:17:36.133 --> 0:17:38.053 tea and they've got Marley Liboc waiting in the wings. 0:17:38.373 --> 0:17:40.853 Remember Hondre Pollard this week. I haven't seen the last 0:17:40.893 --> 0:17:43.613 of Hondre, I'm sure in this series. So they've got 0:17:43.613 --> 0:17:49.293 plenty of options, but relatively predictable sort of team by 0:17:49.373 --> 0:17:52.853 and large from the spring Box. And you look at 0:17:52.853 --> 0:17:54.573 the back line. And he didn't have a lot to 0:17:54.573 --> 0:17:56.573 say at the media conference today, but Damian Vellen's so 0:17:57.373 --> 0:17:59.173 I can still remember how we just carved up the 0:17:59.213 --> 0:18:00.853 All Blacks last time Ada in Wellington. 0:18:00.893 --> 0:18:01.413 He's a weapon. 0:18:01.493 --> 0:18:03.973 He was absolute weapon and he was absolutely bouncing on 0:18:04.333 --> 0:18:07.173 him speaking to Jason Pine on sideline with us and 0:18:07.693 --> 0:18:10.613 he was sort of rocking after a stunning performance. And 0:18:10.653 --> 0:18:13.013 if he gets going, the All Blacks are in a 0:18:13.053 --> 0:18:15.173 bit of strife. So look, a really good spring Box 0:18:15.173 --> 0:18:16.893 team was never not going to be a good Springboks 0:18:16.933 --> 0:18:19.373 team whoever they picked. But yeah, you can look at that, 0:18:19.493 --> 0:18:21.533 and you mentioned the props and things like that before 0:18:21.973 --> 0:18:23.813 the size of the challenge. You know, now, wait's the 0:18:23.853 --> 0:18:24.653 All Blacks, doesn't it. 0:18:25.013 --> 0:18:27.493 Oh yeah, when he rolls out that team, you're like, 0:18:27.973 --> 0:18:33.333 oh shit, you're not missing about here. No, it's gonna 0:18:33.333 --> 0:18:37.253 be bloody tough. Damien Delende playing his hundredth Just the 0:18:37.333 --> 0:18:41.653 names in that pack. Evan needs to be Yeah, Malcolm 0:18:41.693 --> 0:18:43.533 Marx will player of the Year last year. Just there 0:18:43.613 --> 0:18:46.613 multiple threats at the breakdown in particular. You know the 0:18:46.693 --> 0:18:48.293 All Backs want to play at pace. I think they 0:18:48.293 --> 0:18:50.933 are gonna find it a real challenge. They need to 0:18:50.933 --> 0:18:55.573 get their cleaners in and numbers. I think Roygard's a 0:18:55.573 --> 0:18:59.253 real asset there, his size, his ability to shake off 0:18:59.253 --> 0:19:01.933 defenders and deal with rut pressure. This is his first 0:19:01.973 --> 0:19:04.933 start against the spring Box. I'm really intrigued to see 0:19:04.933 --> 0:19:07.653 how he goes a wee bit surprised that Sasha to 0:19:07.693 --> 0:19:10.453 get the nods. Obviously they've got great depth there, but 0:19:10.533 --> 0:19:13.373 he's only had one game in two months since coming 0:19:13.413 --> 0:19:16.213 back from the ankle injury and it was really scratchy, 0:19:16.253 --> 0:19:19.813 albeit in a makeshift spring Box team. They left half 0:19:19.813 --> 0:19:22.573 their squads in South Africa for that game in Argentina. 0:19:23.053 --> 0:19:27.133 But he is the golden boy and together with Grant Williams. 0:19:27.453 --> 0:19:30.053 Does that perhaps suggest that they might play a wee 0:19:30.093 --> 0:19:32.293 bit more rugby than most people expect. 0:19:32.373 --> 0:19:35.533 Yeah, potentially, and it'll be interesting at Alice Park because 0:19:35.773 --> 0:19:37.933 I thought that they'd probably go Sasha in Cape Town 0:19:38.053 --> 0:19:43.453 and maybe start Leboc or Pollard here potentially a little 0:19:43.493 --> 0:19:45.333 bit more expansive. You know, Russ, He's talked a lot 0:19:45.333 --> 0:19:47.133 about the All Blacks and what they're going to do 0:19:47.213 --> 0:19:49.013 and the way they want to play at pace. But 0:19:49.573 --> 0:19:53.293 it wouldn't surprise me and the Springbox will scrum for penalties, 0:19:53.333 --> 0:19:55.613 but it wouldn't surprise me to see them try and 0:19:56.293 --> 0:19:58.413 take on the All Blacks alien and whether they can 0:19:58.493 --> 0:20:01.413 last Friday minutes and pace that way. But it wouldn't 0:20:01.413 --> 0:20:03.733 surprise me just to try and maybe see them try 0:20:03.733 --> 0:20:05.853 and make a statement inside that opening twenty minutes and 0:20:05.853 --> 0:20:07.493 play with a lot of heat against the All Blacks. 0:20:07.773 --> 0:20:10.093 Yes, it is a different style of ten, but he 0:20:10.133 --> 0:20:14.093 actually often or has the ability to play twelve. He's 0:20:14.173 --> 0:20:17.213 quite big and physical, so he can challenge the line, 0:20:17.373 --> 0:20:22.693 take contact, offload so that attracts defenders. He's very silky 0:20:22.813 --> 0:20:25.653 and other regards as well, but hasn't had a lot 0:20:25.653 --> 0:20:31.213 of rugby lately. But I'm sure both Tony Brown behind 0:20:31.213 --> 0:20:34.573 the scenes will be cooking up a few specials, a 0:20:34.573 --> 0:20:38.573 few specials, and i think particularly from the line outs, 0:20:39.093 --> 0:20:42.493 Neil Barnes and Jason Ryan will be trying to devise 0:20:42.573 --> 0:20:44.973