1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast 2 00:00:10,613 --> 00:00:11,773 Speaker 1: from News Talks that'd be. 3 00:00:13,013 --> 00:00:16,013 Speaker 2: And Google Stevenson from Umbella Well Being is with us 4 00:00:16,013 --> 00:00:18,093 Speaker 2: this morning. Hi Google, Hi Jack. 5 00:00:18,293 --> 00:00:20,453 Speaker 3: That was a bit of a throwback to the nineteen seventies. 6 00:00:20,453 --> 00:00:21,293 Speaker 3: Google Stephenson. 7 00:00:21,613 --> 00:00:22,613 Speaker 2: Oh sorry I say? 8 00:00:22,693 --> 00:00:23,053 Speaker 1: Did I say? 9 00:00:23,053 --> 00:00:23,813 Speaker 2: Dogle Stephenson? 10 00:00:25,413 --> 00:00:27,973 Speaker 3: You were thinking about you were thinking about the news. 11 00:00:27,933 --> 00:00:31,133 Speaker 2: I was thinking about. I was thinking about broadcasters who 12 00:00:31,213 --> 00:00:34,053 Speaker 2: define what it means to have gravitas Google, That's what 13 00:00:34,093 --> 00:00:36,573 Speaker 2: I was thinking about. I was thinking about the silky 14 00:00:36,693 --> 00:00:41,133 Speaker 2: voices that have that have illustrated momentous moments in our 15 00:00:41,213 --> 00:00:42,613 Speaker 2: nation's history and yours. 16 00:00:42,653 --> 00:00:45,693 Speaker 3: Just you know, right, yeah, right, you wriggled yourself out 17 00:00:45,733 --> 00:00:45,893 Speaker 3: of there. 18 00:00:45,973 --> 00:00:47,333 Speaker 2: I'm sorry for that part. 19 00:00:47,413 --> 00:00:50,813 Speaker 3: Yeah. It's a very common thing. It's a very common thing. 20 00:00:50,853 --> 00:00:52,133 Speaker 2: Do you get there? Do you get that a lot? 21 00:00:52,413 --> 00:00:55,933 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah I do. People particularly, yeah, particularly 22 00:00:55,933 --> 00:00:59,293 Speaker 3: people who are you know, who remember Google Stephenson from 23 00:00:59,293 --> 00:01:01,533 Speaker 3: the news will often because my name is so similar 24 00:01:01,573 --> 00:01:03,773 Speaker 3: Google Southern, Google Stevenson up so similar, and people go 25 00:01:03,813 --> 00:01:06,213 Speaker 3: on Google Stevenson, isn't it like Yeah, well no, no, 26 00:01:06,533 --> 00:01:09,253 Speaker 3: quite that old. But yeah I dig this. Yeah, that's right. 27 00:01:09,413 --> 00:01:13,333 Speaker 2: Anyway. Hey, So, so the latest tranch of census data 28 00:01:13,493 --> 00:01:15,453 Speaker 2: has been released this week and there were some really 29 00:01:15,453 --> 00:01:18,533 Speaker 2: interesting numbers. Heaps of different subjects covered, but there was 30 00:01:19,013 --> 00:01:21,053 Speaker 2: a lot of data on how we are working. And 31 00:01:21,093 --> 00:01:24,093 Speaker 2: so one in six New Zealanders, according to the latest data, 32 00:01:24,853 --> 00:01:27,213 Speaker 2: are now working from home. But the number of people 33 00:01:27,333 --> 00:01:30,933 Speaker 2: working from home most of the time has increased almost 34 00:01:30,973 --> 00:01:35,253 Speaker 2: sixty percent between twenty eighteen and twenty twenty three. That 35 00:01:35,413 --> 00:01:37,853 Speaker 2: just shows you, what, you know, what the pandemic has 36 00:01:37,853 --> 00:01:40,533 Speaker 2: done for the way in which we work. What did 37 00:01:40,573 --> 00:01:43,173 Speaker 2: you Was that at all surprising to you that those 38 00:01:43,253 --> 00:01:46,293 Speaker 2: kind of numbers, No, I don't. 39 00:01:46,133 --> 00:01:50,613 Speaker 3: Think so, you know, it's it's so much of it 40 00:01:50,653 --> 00:01:54,293 Speaker 3: has been prevalent since since COVID. But it's interesting because 41 00:01:54,333 --> 00:01:57,853 Speaker 3: the history of working from home like dates back way 42 00:01:58,053 --> 00:02:00,533 Speaker 3: before COVID. I like to think it was kind of 43 00:02:00,533 --> 00:02:03,133 Speaker 3: the best kept secret prior to COVID. Yeah, and then 44 00:02:03,213 --> 00:02:07,013 Speaker 3: people discovered it and went, well, look at this crazy thing. Yeah, 45 00:02:07,893 --> 00:02:10,293 Speaker 3: and me included, like, I'd never done it before and 46 00:02:10,333 --> 00:02:12,893 Speaker 3: it was a little tricky, but yeah, over COVID, and 47 00:02:12,933 --> 00:02:15,693 Speaker 3: it's just yeah, and it's just so so it doesn't 48 00:02:15,693 --> 00:02:19,693 Speaker 3: surprise me that that those that numbers really about the 49 00:02:19,773 --> 00:02:22,693 Speaker 3: number of people doing it. Yeah, and look, I think 50 00:02:22,693 --> 00:02:25,013 Speaker 3: it's a good thing not working from home full time. 51 00:02:25,093 --> 00:02:28,493 Speaker 3: But I'd stake my claim on saying that hybrid working 52 00:02:29,293 --> 00:02:31,813 Speaker 3: is the best for people's well being and the best 53 00:02:31,813 --> 00:02:33,093 Speaker 3: for people's productivity. 54 00:02:33,253 --> 00:02:36,533 Speaker 2: Well, I've said before that for me personally, a hybrid 55 00:02:36,533 --> 00:02:38,493 Speaker 2: model works really well. I like being in the office. 56 00:02:38,533 --> 00:02:41,093 Speaker 2: I really love engaging with people, but I also love 57 00:02:41,213 --> 00:02:43,093 Speaker 2: being able to If I've got to focus on something 58 00:02:43,093 --> 00:02:45,093 Speaker 2: where I need to read a lot and I need 59 00:02:45,133 --> 00:02:48,173 Speaker 2: to be on detail, I need to not be interrupted 60 00:02:48,173 --> 00:02:50,453 Speaker 2: every two minutes, then working from home is fantastic. So 61 00:02:50,493 --> 00:02:52,213 Speaker 2: I try and do it one day, one day a 62 00:02:52,253 --> 00:02:55,173 Speaker 2: week I can, if I can, so talk to us 63 00:02:55,173 --> 00:02:58,813 Speaker 2: about that change, because you know, like you say, working 64 00:02:58,813 --> 00:03:03,213 Speaker 2: from home has become more common after COVID, but research 65 00:03:03,733 --> 00:03:06,373 Speaker 2: in this space has been underway for decades. 66 00:03:07,373 --> 00:03:10,093 Speaker 3: Yeah, it has been. I mean it really kicked off 67 00:03:10,133 --> 00:03:12,773 Speaker 3: obviously after COVID and during COVID because so many of 68 00:03:12,813 --> 00:03:15,653 Speaker 3: us started doing it. But people that have been researching 69 00:03:15,693 --> 00:03:18,133 Speaker 3: this area for twenty years or so, and then there 70 00:03:18,173 --> 00:03:20,573 Speaker 3: has been some really good New Zealand research too. Like 71 00:03:20,613 --> 00:03:22,693 Speaker 3: you know, often we go oh, that's overseas, it won't 72 00:03:22,733 --> 00:03:25,933 Speaker 3: work here. But Jared harr Out of Massy Uni, Yeah, 73 00:03:26,493 --> 00:03:29,733 Speaker 3: has consistently studied this for about the last four years, 74 00:03:30,013 --> 00:03:32,813 Speaker 3: and all the research really points to that mix. As 75 00:03:32,853 --> 00:03:35,813 Speaker 3: you noted, really that hybrid model, you know, one two 76 00:03:35,973 --> 00:03:38,213 Speaker 3: three days maybe at home and the other you know 77 00:03:38,373 --> 00:03:41,773 Speaker 3: two three days at work is really the best model. 78 00:03:41,813 --> 00:03:45,373 Speaker 3: You get that you get that lovely mix of still 79 00:03:45,453 --> 00:03:50,653 Speaker 3: socially interacting and team involvement and collaboration, but also the 80 00:03:50,733 --> 00:03:54,613 Speaker 3: opportunity to have some more focused time. But also people 81 00:03:54,733 --> 00:03:56,653 Speaker 3: talk about the work life balance, you know, when you're 82 00:03:56,653 --> 00:03:59,293 Speaker 3: at home, Like this is for me personally. I work 83 00:03:59,333 --> 00:04:02,133 Speaker 3: from home maybe two days a week, two or three, 84 00:04:02,213 --> 00:04:05,133 Speaker 3: and when I'm at home, I just feel like I 85 00:04:05,173 --> 00:04:08,213 Speaker 3: just feel more relaxed. I get a lot. To be honest, 86 00:04:08,213 --> 00:04:09,893 Speaker 3: I probably get more work done when I'm at home 87 00:04:09,933 --> 00:04:13,173 Speaker 3: than I do at work. I'm patly more productive, even 88 00:04:13,213 --> 00:04:14,973 Speaker 3: though I am getting up and doing the washing and 89 00:04:14,973 --> 00:04:17,013 Speaker 3: taking the dogs for the walk and all that kind 90 00:04:17,013 --> 00:04:22,493 Speaker 3: of things. Yeah, but it's way more effective than either 91 00:04:22,573 --> 00:04:24,693 Speaker 3: one hundred percent at home or one hundred percent in 92 00:04:24,733 --> 00:04:25,133 Speaker 3: the office. 93 00:04:25,133 --> 00:04:27,093 Speaker 2: We'll talk to us about those options. So what are 94 00:04:27,133 --> 00:04:30,653 Speaker 2: the disadvantages for working from home one hundred percent of 95 00:04:30,693 --> 00:04:31,053 Speaker 2: the time. 96 00:04:32,373 --> 00:04:36,653 Speaker 3: Yeah, the disadvantage of that is that those people tend 97 00:04:36,693 --> 00:04:42,773 Speaker 3: to report more isolation, you know, lower mood, which is 98 00:04:42,773 --> 00:04:47,453 Speaker 3: probably collected to the isolation and the potential to overwork 99 00:04:47,493 --> 00:04:52,613 Speaker 3: and burn out. And that's possibly because lots of us 100 00:04:52,613 --> 00:04:55,013 Speaker 3: when we work at home, you know, you tend to 101 00:04:55,053 --> 00:04:58,013 Speaker 3: start earlier in the morning because you don't have to 102 00:04:58,013 --> 00:05:00,453 Speaker 3: do a commute, and then you tend to go later 103 00:05:00,533 --> 00:05:03,893 Speaker 3: into the evening because there isn't that there aren't no 104 00:05:04,013 --> 00:05:06,693 Speaker 3: social cues around you to say, Okay, it's the end 105 00:05:06,733 --> 00:05:08,213 Speaker 3: of the day and you just wow, I'll just do 106 00:05:08,293 --> 00:05:09,613 Speaker 3: this a little bit more, and all of a sudden, 107 00:05:09,613 --> 00:05:11,053 Speaker 3: that's six thirty and you think, gee, I should have 108 00:05:11,053 --> 00:05:14,133 Speaker 3: finished about half an hour ago. So that's that's the 109 00:05:14,213 --> 00:05:16,653 Speaker 3: working from home full time, and the working from the 110 00:05:16,693 --> 00:05:21,093 Speaker 3: office full time isn't in terms of productivity, we just 111 00:05:21,213 --> 00:05:25,893 Speaker 3: lose productivity when we're in the office full time. You know, 112 00:05:25,933 --> 00:05:28,893 Speaker 3: we get interrupted, we go out for coffee, you know, 113 00:05:28,933 --> 00:05:33,373 Speaker 3: we have those water cooler chats, and those things are important. 114 00:05:33,573 --> 00:05:35,493 Speaker 3: I'm not trying to say that those are a waste 115 00:05:35,533 --> 00:05:38,373 Speaker 3: of time. They are important. But if you do them 116 00:05:38,413 --> 00:05:41,373 Speaker 3: too much, you end up not being super productive because 117 00:05:41,693 --> 00:05:44,373 Speaker 3: there's lots of interruptions and you stop, start and all 118 00:05:44,373 --> 00:05:47,613 Speaker 3: those sorts of things. So yeah, one hundred percent either 119 00:05:47,653 --> 00:05:49,933 Speaker 3: way is not great. That but that it's the Goldilocks 120 00:05:49,973 --> 00:05:52,373 Speaker 3: so principle, Yes, it's that right, the sweet spot in 121 00:05:52,373 --> 00:05:52,733 Speaker 3: the middle. 122 00:05:53,013 --> 00:05:55,493 Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally. I mean, like I said, works for me. 123 00:05:55,573 --> 00:05:58,013 Speaker 2: So if there if you were to be critical, is 124 00:05:58,053 --> 00:06:01,613 Speaker 2: there any disadvantage to the Goldilocks model, any disadvantage to 125 00:06:01,693 --> 00:06:02,933 Speaker 2: the to the hybrid model? 126 00:06:05,973 --> 00:06:09,533 Speaker 3: Possible? Not for the people though, who are able to 127 00:06:09,533 --> 00:06:13,013 Speaker 3: do it. A disadvantage is that some people can't work 128 00:06:13,053 --> 00:06:16,573 Speaker 3: from home. Their jobs don't allow it. Yeah, you know, 129 00:06:16,653 --> 00:06:19,773 Speaker 3: if you're a tradee it's kind of difficult. It's kind 130 00:06:19,773 --> 00:06:22,253 Speaker 3: of difficult to be a plumber and work from home 131 00:06:22,293 --> 00:06:26,653 Speaker 3: on somebody else's plumbing. And it can have the potential 132 00:06:26,733 --> 00:06:29,013 Speaker 3: even within a workplace, like if some people in a 133 00:06:29,013 --> 00:06:31,613 Speaker 3: workplace can work from home and some can't, it can 134 00:06:31,733 --> 00:06:34,853 Speaker 3: have the sense of almost two classes of workers and 135 00:06:34,973 --> 00:06:36,893 Speaker 3: one who are sort of well, we can work from home, 136 00:06:36,933 --> 00:06:39,693 Speaker 3: and the others who can't, and that can create a 137 00:06:39,693 --> 00:06:42,613 Speaker 3: bit of division. I think there are probably clever ways 138 00:06:42,613 --> 00:06:44,853 Speaker 3: around that, but I think that that is a bit 139 00:06:44,893 --> 00:06:48,333 Speaker 3: of a downside. Are those people that don't have the 140 00:06:48,373 --> 00:06:49,493 Speaker 3: opportunity to do there? 141 00:06:49,613 --> 00:06:52,693 Speaker 2: Yeah, well said hey, thanks dougle That is Doogle Sutherland, 142 00:06:53,973 --> 00:06:56,413 Speaker 2: who is of course with Umbrella well Being, will put 143 00:06:56,453 --> 00:06:58,773 Speaker 2: all of his tips there and thoughts. I'm working from 144 00:06:58,773 --> 00:07:01,093 Speaker 2: home on the news talks. He'd be website for 145 00:07:01,213 --> 00:07:04,293 Speaker 1: More from Saturday Morning with Jack Tam Listen live to 146 00:07:04,373 --> 00:07:07,533 Speaker 1: Newstalks that'd be from nine am today, or follow the 147 00:07:07,533 --> 00:07:09,013 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.