1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Now, whenever there is success at the top level in 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: international rugby in this country, there is more often than 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: not one name involved, and that name is Mike Kron, 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: a legendary coach. He's known as the Scrum Doctor. He 5 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: was an assistant coach with the All Blacks for more 6 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: than two hundred games. He also won the twenty, twenty 7 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: eleven and twenty fifteen World Cups, or at least helped you. 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: He then came out of retirement to join the Black 9 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: Ferns in twenty two help them, we'll win a world 10 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: title too. And now he's with the Wallabies for the 11 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: last year and a half. In the midst of all 12 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: of that, he's had time to write a book. It's 13 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: called Coach Lessons from an All Black Legend and Mike 14 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: Cron is with us. 15 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 2: Now morning, Mike, good morning, good morning. 16 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: Do you ever think you'd write a book? 17 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 2: Never? No, I never thought i'd have anything with what 18 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: writing about, to be fair. 19 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, And now that you've written it and read it, 20 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: what do you think. 21 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: Well, it's quite interesting how much you do atf you forget, 22 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 2: you know, I'm seventy now, so over your lifetime you 23 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 2: have your memories. But once it's sort of get jogged 24 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: by my writer and I had to go away and 25 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 2: think about things. It's amazing how things do come floating 26 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 2: back from the back of the brain to the front 27 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 2: of the brain, so to speak. 28 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, relive it all again. I'll tell you what 29 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: I found fascinating about reading parts of your book as 30 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: we got your tips from. What made you think that 31 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: you should go to the ballet. 32 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, to be honest, I've never been really interested 33 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: in rugby coaching seminars. They left me a bit blend, 34 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 2: so to speak. You know, they just showed you a 35 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: new drill or something. I always have this thirst for knowledge. 36 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: Still have to be fair because I know I'm not 37 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 2: good enough. I know I've got to get better. So 38 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: you go to other elite sports. I found so ballet, 39 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 2: for instance, they have one of the worst records for 40 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 2: injury of what we loosely turned turf toe, which is 41 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: a problem under your big toe from jumping and landing 42 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: a lot and where you get it. And rugby quite 43 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: a bit, particularly in the hemisphere, from playing on hard services, 44 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: which we do. So I was interested to see how 45 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: they handled that, and out of that I found a 46 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: bit of gold about how they prevent that in ballet, 47 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: which I then passed back on to the medical staff 48 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: and the All Blacks, and we coached slightly differently. 49 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: So do you think because you also went and had 50 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: to look at the sumo wrestlers, did that inform how 51 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: to pack a scrum? 52 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: No? No, I went and sat a week there in 53 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: the summer wrestling camp. I didn't know what I was 54 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: looking at. That's the first thing. Don't go in with 55 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: preconceived ideas. Just go in with an open mind. And 56 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 2: I was lucky enough I was allowed to video because 57 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 2: quite often when you go into other places, they are 58 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: very protective. But in the sumo camp, I was allowed 59 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: to video, so I videoed them. Every morning they do 60 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 2: an hour for the junior boys, then an ow the 61 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: intermediate guys, and an hour for the senior guys. And 62 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: I didn't know what I've seen. I would have a 63 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 2: clue and I got home. There's got to be something 64 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 2: I'm missing, you know, And there must have been. Three 65 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 2: months later I went back over the footage and I 66 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: just found that the last thing they do when they 67 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 2: came out of the blocks to attack their opponent is 68 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: they sort of crunched their toes into the ground and 69 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: then at leased to explode and that's what gave them 70 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: that force and power to get off the mark. And 71 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 2: I thought that's pretty interesting, So I brought that back 72 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: and included that and part of my coaching. 73 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that it doesn't matter what elite sport 74 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: you go to, but if you are at the elite level, 75 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: there is something to learn? 76 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: Definitely? One again, I think so long should do a 77 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: lot of places I've gone into they said, well, what 78 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 2: are you going there for? I don't know, you know, 79 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: but I'm sure if you've got an open mind and 80 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: you look and listen, there will be some bit of 81 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: gold there for you. You know, Like one week I 82 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: went into cage fighters for a week and the Gold 83 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: Coast and came back into the ballet. You know, you 84 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: couldn't get two more verse sports that I learned something 85 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: from Bath. 86 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 1: The impression that I get from you, Mike, is that 87 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: you you're all about continuous improvement, right, and you can 88 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: improve from everywhere and you must always improve. Is that 89 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: not all? Is it not exhausting? 90 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 2: It can be, but exciting, isn't it? You know? Like, 91 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 2: like as I said in the book, the one thing 92 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 2: I live off when I'm for myself and for my 93 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: athletes that I coach, no matter who. Learning is motivation 94 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: and motivation is enjoyment. Yeah, so by doing this, you're 95 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 2: actually learning which motivates you. And if you're motivated, you're 96 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 2: actually you know, you're enjoying life, aren't you. Now? 97 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: You tell a story about Andrew Hall and he was 98 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,119 Speaker 1: not the start you did. You guys were not picking 99 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: him in the starting lineup and he came to he 100 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: got you obviously got on the ras or something one 101 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 1: night and he said to you, why is that? And 102 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: eventually you told him the truth was that you did 103 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: not think that he was technically up to it to 104 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: scrummage with the best in the world. And that changed everything. 105 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: And after that he actually took some coaching and then 106 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: improved himself and that after that you learned. Honesty is 107 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: you know, really important. But do you think honesty is 108 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,559 Speaker 1: always importantly? Do you always go in and tell people 109 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: what they need to hear? 110 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: Yes? A different levels. You've got to know, like anything, 111 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: whether you're coaching someone or whether you're talking to someone, 112 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 2: you've got to know who you're talking to. Yeah, and 113 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 2: different if you're talking to a ten year old lad 114 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 2: or girl to a fifty test all black, and you would, then, 115 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: you know, do that accordingly. But Andrew I learned so 116 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 2: much of him because it was brutal honesty back at me. 117 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 2: I was sugarcoating, not giving him accurate feedback because one is, 118 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 2: you know, we had a pretty good friendship, and two 119 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: is in all honesty, I didn't really want to confront 120 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 2: that situation because it was difficult. People don't it's easier 121 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 2: to forget or put something under the carpet actually confront it. 122 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 2: And from that learning that I got from Andrew that 123 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 2: night about being honest, and I was letting him down. 124 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 2: That's the thing. I was letting the athlete down by 125 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 2: not being honest. I find a whole lot easier after that, 126 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: and quite often when I'm talking to young men or 127 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 2: women and I have to give honest, brutal feedback. I 128 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 2: told him that story, and I say, you know, if 129 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: I didn't care about you, I wouldn't be honest. I 130 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 2: could bullshit you and pushing out the door, you know, 131 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 2: tell you what you want to hear. But because I 132 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 2: care about you, because I think you've got a good 133 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: future and you deserve my honest answer. Now, I'm not 134 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: saying I'm right by any stretch of the imagination. I'm 135 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: just saying what I believe, and then we can work out. 136 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: I think that's a great starting point. And also getting permission, 137 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: you know, like when I talk to athletes, you know, 138 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: and you're going to give some feedback, you know, and 139 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 2: it is harsh. Sometimes I'll ask them, you know, how 140 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 2: honest do you want me to be? You know? One, 141 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: I can shut it it a bit. In tenotally brutally 142 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: honest and generally at top level. They also no, no, 143 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 2: I want to hear. I want to hear exactly I 144 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 2: want to. 145 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: Ten Probably like you, Mike, that they're constantly wanting to improve, 146 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: aren't they. 147 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: Mike? 148 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: Did you see that thing that the Safas pulled against 149 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: Italy with a little scrum at the start of the 150 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: game the other day? 151 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I remember, probably forty years ago, some 152 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: teams to get deliberately out on the fall and then 153 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: go back to a scrum to try and do that. Yeah, 154 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,119 Speaker 2: I haven't seen that for forty years. Probably so Rassi 155 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 2: coming up, smit ears dredging them up. Yeah, do you 156 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: like it? What? Ah? It's a tactic that I just 157 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 2: think I'm sort of a purist. I suppose, you know, 158 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: I coached that way. I don't like you know, I 159 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: just like doing things correctly. I find out a wee 160 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 2: bit just a bit harsh. You know. It's just play 161 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: the game that it's meant to be played and get 162 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: on with it. 163 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: What do you think of the Blues wanting to move 164 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: to Mount Smart potentially? 165 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, they have very good reasons for it. 166 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: You know, it's a good field. I mean, I member 167 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 2: the or Blacks we trained there. It's a good field, 168 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: good facility, you know, so I'll certainly have their reasons 169 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 2: for it. And Andrew Hall, the boss there, he'll certainly 170 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 2: be making good decisions. 171 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: Won't Part of the reason be that the crowds have 172 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: dropped off and we just don't get enough people to 173 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: kind of pack out Eden Park. 174 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's probably true, you know, because we have 175 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 2: live TV and you've got to drive there, and I 176 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 2: found Eden Parks not the easiest place to get to sometimes. Yeah, 177 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward, Sorry, Mike. 178 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: What I was going to say is somebody pitched this 179 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: idea to me right that what we need to do 180 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: is we need to make super rugby more exciting. And 181 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: what you're probably going to hate this because you're a scrumman, 182 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: But what we need to see more is the running game. 183 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: So why don't we change the rules to give you 184 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: greater points for a try that comes off a running 185 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: game than just pushing over the line. And that way 186 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: we get more fans because it's engaging. Again, what do 187 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: you think? 188 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 2: No, I probably wouldn't agree with that, but I actually 189 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: found this year super rugby was enjoyable to watch. The 190 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: stats went up watching and that came about through referring 191 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 2: being a stricter on people trying to slow the game 192 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: down intentionally to have a rest for tactics. Yeah, and 193 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: they made a couple of minor law changes. It was fast. 194 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 2: You couldn't get it much faster because the athlete wouldn't 195 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 2: be able to survive it. I think, you know you're covering, 196 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: you know, eight nine kilometers in a game of repeated 197 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: speed with collisions. So the ball and play now is 198 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: more than what it has been. So I think I 199 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 2: think the game itself is a good place. I think 200 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: the thing is for people to and I'm the same 201 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: for me. In christ that temporary stadium, I know it 202 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 2: was great it did a good job, but it's the 203 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 2: last place i'd want to go on a cold night. 204 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: Whereas the new stadium's getting built. Them all open next year, 205 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 2: you know I'll have to get in there. 206 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in a good stadium. Is a good thing, 207 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: isn't it. How are you feeling about the game against 208 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: the lines? You're feeling confident? 209 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 2: That wouldn't be a word i'd use. No, excited. Yes, 210 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 2: you know we're rank outsiders, which the way the way 211 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 2: it is. You know we're working hard. I'm here at 212 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 2: the moment in Brisbane with the team and you know 213 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 2: we're working away as hard as we can. That there 214 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: are a great bunch of young men. We've got a good, 215 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 2: good management crew. Everything's gone pretty well to plan, to 216 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 2: be fair, you know, because the things are fair of 217 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 2: like budge scares through your team or serious injuries to 218 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 2: key players. You know we're going okay that way. We 219 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: won't know how good we are until we get out. 220 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: You know, we've shadow box a fair bit. We've got 221 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: given the ring on said day and just see how 222 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 2: we go. 223 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: Good luck with it, Mike, It's been a delight to 224 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: talk to you, and they are very, very lucky to 225 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: have you that is Mike Kron And by the way, 226 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: if you want to have a read of Mike's book 227 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: Coach Lessons from an All Black Legend is what it's 228 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: called for. More from the Mic Asking Breakfast Listen live 229 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: to news talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or 230 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.