1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Interesting insight into our prison sentencing or sentences this morning 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: with a claim that these short sentences might be doing 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: more harm than good. Comes to us from the recently 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: retired chair of the Parole Boards, Ron Young, who is 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: with us. A very good morning to you. 6 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: Good morning Mike. 7 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: Just a couple of myths versus realities. Do the gangs 8 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: run the place? And do they recruit? 9 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: They recruit. They don't run the place completely, but they 10 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 2: do run some of the units of the prisons. They recruit. 11 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: Right, the ability to reform, If you want to make 12 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: yourself a better person, can you? 13 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 2: You can? Sometimes it's delayed and unattractively delayed, but you 14 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 2: can make yourself a better person. 15 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: How much of this is about basic resource? If everyone 16 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: who wanted to put their hand up and say I 17 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: want to reform myself could get access to that, it 18 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: would be a better place. 19 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, quite a lot of it's about resources and huge 20 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: todays and getting appropriate rehabilitation and reintegration. And of course 21 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: that means a lot of people sitting there cost of 22 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: the tax bayer without being able to advance. So in 23 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: one sense, the economics make no sense at all. 24 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: So in that I assume that people who've got the 25 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: purse rings understand that. Is it deliberate on the government's 26 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: part to under resource or we simply don't have money 27 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: and that's just life. 28 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to that. Of course, it's 29 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: a matter for the government, but it's certainly been the 30 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: situation in prisons for a long time now. So of course, 31 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: you know, money for prisons isn't the most popular political slogan. 32 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: No, exactly, And that's why I asked the question. I mean, 33 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: how much of what we do these days and you 34 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: sit on a parole board knowing that the public really 35 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: just want a lot of people in a lot of 36 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: jails for a long time. 37 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, we understand that, and we understand the sort of 38 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: instinct punished. What we're trying to do, though, is the 39 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 2: crime they've committed has already been committed. What we're trying 40 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 2: to do is I'm sure they don't commit any further crime. 41 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: So we're focused on public safety and that's the most 42 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: important thing, and that's what drives what we do. 43 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: Has the recidivism rate changed dramatically at all over the. 44 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: Years, it's gone up and down at that, but it's 45 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: hard to generalize. It depends very much on the kind 46 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: of offending and the kind of rehabilitation is provided. If 47 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: the rehabilitation is good, well researched, and well known, then 48 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: it can reduce offending quite significantly. And the sophistication of 49 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: those programs has developed significantly over the years. 50 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: Your argument would be, if we had the resource and 51 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: we put the people into the programs, it would be 52 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: on the right track and recidivism or the rate would 53 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: drop exactly. Okay. Is that a hard sell to a skeptical. 54 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: Polic It is, And I understand that people want longer 55 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: sentences because they feel they'll be safer, but actually the 56 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 2: opposite is true, they won't be safer. The key we 57 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: can't do anything about the crime that someone's committed who's 58 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: already in prison, But as I said, we can try 59 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: and do something about the crimes that they could commit 60 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 2: by reducing reoffending. And that's putting huge effort into rehabilitation. 61 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: The perception from the public that the judiciary a soft 62 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: and so are you guys on the parole board fair. 63 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: Or not not fair? I mean, New Zealand has a 64 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: really high rate of imprisonment. It's got a very high 65 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 2: rate of remand may be one of the highest in 66 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: the world. So and look at America, you know, the 67 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 2: highest rate of imprisonment and the highest longer sentences. It's 68 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: a good illustration of why long sentences don't make the 69 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: public safer. 70 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: Nice to talk to, you appreciate it very much, soar 71 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: on young outgoing parole board chair. 72 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 73 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 74 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.