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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk ZB Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: We are talking about myth testing after Phil Goff mentioned

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Speaker 2: to Ryan Bridge on The Herald Now that he's spent

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Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty thousand dollars decontaminating and renovating a

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Speaker 2: property that was discovered to have been or had a

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Speaker 2: p lab operating in it. Todd's very good afternoon to you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, good afternoon.

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Speaker 2: How are you going good? Now? You're a good man

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Speaker 2: to chat to. You are one of the pioneers of

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Speaker 2: myth testing in New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: No, you know, I am the pioneer of myth testing

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Speaker 3: in New Zealand, right and yeah, And we have a

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Speaker 3: problem in New Zealand and it's growing. After the SIRD

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Speaker 3: Peter Buttman report, a lot of people stopped testing and

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Speaker 3: now we're seeing a large portion of what we're testing

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Speaker 3: coming back positive. The contamination throughout New Zealand is really

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Speaker 3: bad and it's impacting families. The government has lost control

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Speaker 3: at this stage. The only option that I see is

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Speaker 3: continuing testing. Yeah, it's just it's major, It's just the

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Speaker 3: impact is unbelievable. When I started in twenty twelve. I

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Speaker 3: didn't think it was a major problem. Back then, twenty

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Speaker 3: percent of houses that we randomly tested came back positive.

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Speaker 3: Now it's eighty six percent. What's happened is because of

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Speaker 3: the Peter Gupman report, a lot of people stopped testing

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Speaker 3: and those houses moved through the system and they are

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Speaker 3: still contaminated today.

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Speaker 2: So well, let's have a chat about the Sir Peter

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Speaker 2: Gluckman report, because, as you said, that did change how

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Speaker 2: a lot of people felt about meth testing. But arguably

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Speaker 2: it is still quite common within the residential housing market.

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Speaker 2: Certainly we were asked to do that by our property manager,

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Speaker 2: but he did say it was a big panic. And

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Speaker 2: you've got to say, Todd, when that first started testing

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Speaker 2: and there were a lot of cowboys in the market

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Speaker 2: and a lot of confusion about what is a safe

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Speaker 2: level and what is a concerning level. There was panic

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Speaker 2: around any tiny little bit of methamphetamine that was found

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Speaker 2: during testing. Residents and homeowners would freak out that this

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Speaker 2: has been causing a massive health issue for them. But

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Speaker 2: that wasn't true, though, was it. It is to a

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Speaker 2: certain level, but most of the homes that that was

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Speaker 2: being picked up and then quite expense if remedial work

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Speaker 2: was undertaken, that was a have.

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Speaker 3: It was very interesting because when we first action the

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Speaker 3: meth testing labs here in New Zealand to analyze, the

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Speaker 3: main important thing was to determine if it was a

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Speaker 3: lab or was it from a residuence from smoking. And

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Speaker 3: so when we're screening, we're actually not just looking for meth,

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Speaker 3: we're looking for precursors associated with manufacturing and that gives

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Speaker 3: us an indication of what's happened over time and how

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Speaker 3: to deal with a property. Everyone talks about it being

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Speaker 3: welling out of proportion. No. In two thousand and forteen

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Speaker 3: I went to the Commerce Commission. I laid multi complaints

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Speaker 3: that got turned down. In twenty sixteen I went to

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Speaker 3: the Prime Minister and the Housing Minister and they didn't

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Speaker 3: want to listen. So the end results what we had

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Speaker 3: was in action of any regulations, there was a vacuum

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Speaker 3: and we had to use what was there at the

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Speaker 3: time and the only scientific information that we had on

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Speaker 3: limits where the two and ten guidelines were clean up

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Speaker 3: the lamps worldwide. When there is no regulations, you have

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Speaker 3: to use what is appropriate that you can use until

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Speaker 3: the regulations come in. Now, what I can tell you

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Speaker 3: is it's been over six years since the government report

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Speaker 3: came out. The end result is that why has it

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Speaker 3: taken six years? And I believe that the government is

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Speaker 3: waiting to see what the exposure researchers overseas are trying

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Speaker 3: to put together. I think the government's moved to fifteen

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Speaker 3: too quick, and you know in Australia it's one point five.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, we have to be cautious moving forward. Look,

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Speaker 3: any of raising the limits is ideal. I agree ras

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Speaker 3: can happen in meth testing, and when you're dealing at

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Speaker 3: one point five microgram, it doesn't take much of a

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Speaker 3: technical issue to throw that up, you know, over sampling

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Speaker 3: the surface on the paint, that can that can elevate

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Speaker 3: readings And yeah, so that's that's that's a major problem.

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Speaker 3: I'm actually writing a book called The Very Truth about

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Speaker 3: the meth testing industry and why the government didn't listen

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Speaker 3: to us, And yeah, it's yeah, you know, I think

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Speaker 3: about how I started the industry and there was a

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Speaker 3: lot of people that came in and just yeah, just

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Speaker 3: caused panic. And I'm ashamed about that because you know,

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Speaker 3: I developed the industry. But I went to the government.

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Speaker 3: The government didn't listen, and they're still not listening, and

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Speaker 3: it's quite sad.

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Speaker 2: But what has changed since Sir Peter Gluckman produced that report,

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Speaker 2: because that, to me, Todd, is the government listening or

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Speaker 2: certainly the Chief Science Advisor at the time, looking at

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Speaker 2: what was going on in the residential market and this

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Speaker 2: testing boom that we had and determining I need to

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Speaker 2: do an investigation here and figure out is this going

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Speaker 2: to have adverse health impacts on people living with this

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Speaker 2: sort of methamphetamine detection in their homes. And then he

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Speaker 2: came out with that report and said it was overblowing

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Speaker 2: and that we are more at risk with black mold

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Speaker 2: in properties, and yes, you can do testing for black mold,

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Speaker 2: but not the hysteria around black mold is not to

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Speaker 2: the extent that we still have with methamphetamine youth within

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Speaker 2: a property.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what it comes down is we're not testing, we're

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Speaker 3: not descending our assets. And the problem is the housing

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Speaker 3: stock is quite contaminated. Now. Every seven years people paint.

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Speaker 3: We've seen contamination under paint and the problem, the problem

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Speaker 3: moving forward is the contamination is getting worse.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: I talked to house in New Zealand one hundred and

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Speaker 3: ten million dollars they spent. I went and showed them

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Speaker 3: what evidence I had. They didn't listen. They would have

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Speaker 3: listened to me. And the end result is the general

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Speaker 3: public has really come to a conclusion that yes, they

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Speaker 3: believe they've been it's been overstated of the problem. By

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Speaker 3: the end result is where was the government in twenty

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Speaker 3: twelve the twenty sixteen They just they weren't proactive.

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Speaker 2: Todd really good to get your thoughts. Thank you very much,

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Speaker 2: appreciate you calling up.

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