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Speaker 1: I'm soon going to be able to be reimbursed by

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Speaker 1: their bank. If the bank is found to be at

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Speaker 1: fault for failing to adequately warn and protect their customers,

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Speaker 1: payments of up to half a million could be made.

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Speaker 1: The announcement comes following the government pressure urging banks to

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Speaker 1: do better. The New Zealand Banking Association boss Roger Beaumont,

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Speaker 1: is what this, Roger, very good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Oh, good morning Mike, and good on you for working

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Speaker 2: the three day week. Not at all.

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Speaker 1: I try my best and good on you. I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: you're working and not coming in on an a slash. Well,

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Speaker 1: now were you likewise? Were you dragged to this kicking

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Speaker 1: and screaming?

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Speaker 2: Oh, not at all. Banks had been dealing with this

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Speaker 2: issue for some time before the minister became involved. This

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Speaker 2: is a global issue that's playing out in every jurisdiction

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Speaker 2: around the world, and our bank chief executives were working

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Speaker 2: at quite some pace to try and get in front

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Speaker 2: of the issue before the government engagement.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the level of scamming and its sophistication. How big

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Speaker 1: an issue is it?

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Speaker 2: Oh, It's massive and it's very hard to put a

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Speaker 2: dollar value on it. And the figures that affect New

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Speaker 2: Zealand range in everything from two hundred million to two billion.

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Speaker 2: And the reason it's such a broad range is because

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Speaker 2: of underreporting. People are pretty embarrassed if they've been scammed

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Speaker 2: and so they tend not to report it in a

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Speaker 2: lot of cases.

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Speaker 1: Well, in some of the rules and regulations you're putting

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Speaker 1: forward to some of the help you're offering, you talk

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Speaker 1: about high risk investments. What's a high risk investment? Is

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Speaker 1: that a scam or is that just choice?

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, it's a really good point. What we need

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Speaker 2: to do and what we will do with these new

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Speaker 2: measures is in that example, we will flag if someone

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Speaker 2: is making an investment that that might be a high

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Speaker 2: risk transaction or are you sure that your investment inverted

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Speaker 2: commas is a safe one? And so it's a matter

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Speaker 2: of taking the giving the custom of the opportunity to

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Speaker 2: have us think about whether they are doing the right

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Speaker 2: thing in that moment when they're about to authorize a paper.

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Speaker 1: Is this going to be overbearing for a person like

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Speaker 1: me who really doesn't want you in my life anyway?

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Speaker 1: And I kind of know what I doing, and I'll

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Speaker 1: back myself and am I just going to get endless

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Speaker 1: numbers of alerts and emails from you going second guessing me.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully not, because hopefully our banks will be able to

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Speaker 2: tailor the sorts of flags and warnings that you get

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Speaker 2: based on your transactional history. Now, it might be quite

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Speaker 2: common for you to make a payment over ten thousand dollars,

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Speaker 2: whereas for other people it might be very rare for

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Speaker 2: them to make a payment over ten thousand dollars, and

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Speaker 2: so that will be taken into account in the warnings

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Speaker 2: that you're given. Yeah, we're really aware that it's a

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Speaker 2: critical that these warnings and these flags don't become wallpaper

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Speaker 2: so that you just ignore them and move on.

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Speaker 1: The gross negligence bar that they have in the UK

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Speaker 1: is that going to open you, guys up to people

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Speaker 1: being agreed? In other words, unless you've been grossly negligent,

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Speaker 1: you don't pay anything. Therefore people feel like they've been

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Speaker 1: scammed themselves and dealing with you.

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Speaker 2: Well, what we're saying is customers need to take reasonable care.

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Speaker 2: So that means if you're making a payment and for example,

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Speaker 2: you're doing a confirmation of payee where you're matching the

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Speaker 2: account name with the account number, if that comes back

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Speaker 2: and says that this does not match, but that you

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Speaker 2: then proceed to still make that payment. Well, that's on

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Speaker 2: you because you haven't taken reasonable care about that payment.

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Speaker 1: All honesty, Roger, How much of scamming is basically people

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Speaker 1: just being gullible or greedy or thick.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, it's really hard because what scammers do is

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Speaker 2: to prey on your emotion and vulnerability, and whether you're lonely,

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Speaker 2: or whether you're looking for a new job, or whether

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Speaker 2: you're just looking for hope, scammers will play on that

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Speaker 2: emotion and it's very easy to get caught up on that.

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Speaker 1: But that's not your problem, though, is that's correct?

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Speaker 2: That's correct, It's not our problem. But what we're doing

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Speaker 2: is trying to put safeguards into place that will reduce

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Speaker 2: the chances of that happen, and people need to just

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Speaker 2: sometimes take a set to check and think about what

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Speaker 2: they're doing.

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Speaker 1: All right, good luck with it, Appreciate it, Roger Bayamont.

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Speaker 1: That's in by November. By the way, the New Zealand

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Speaker 1: Banking Association CEO.

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Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news Talks at b from six am weekdays, or follow

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