1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: Yoda. 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,159 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. The government 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 2: wants to see tourism numbers increase as part of its 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: economic growth push. As part of that push, the existing 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: visitor visa scheme will be tweaked to include welcoming in 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 2: digital nomads that'll allow tourists from visa waiver countries up 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 2: to nine months to travel around New Zealand while still working. 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: For their overseas employer. 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: The scheme has already been greeted with expressions of interest 11 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: from overseas, but the introduction of digital nomad visas in 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: some countries has contributed to local backlash against tourists. We'll 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 2: hear more about how the scheme is working in Spain 14 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: from journalists their Marta Balcelles, but first today on the 15 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 2: Front Page, Strategic director of the Hotel Council Altieroa, James 16 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 2: Dillon joins us to discuss the state. 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: Of tourism in New Zealand. 18 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: James figures from Tourism New Zealand show that tourist arrivals 19 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 2: from all countries remains at eighty six point three percent 20 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 2: of pre COVID levels. 21 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: Why do you think this number has struggled to move. 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 3: It's a complicated problem to unpick. But as soon as 23 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 3: we closed our international boarders as a result of the 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 3: battle against COVID, it was always going to be a marathon, 25 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 3: not a sprint, and Hotel Council Al tier Roh has 26 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 3: said there would not be a v shaped recovery. So 27 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 3: winning tourists back to New Zealand, attracting them here involves 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 3: a number of different interventions that all need to be made. 29 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 3: Frankly speaking, New Zealand probably hasn't done enough to lay 30 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 3: out the welcome Matt and huss It's hard to get 31 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 3: tourists back here after we closed. 32 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: Our borders, right, so what do we need to do. 33 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 3: We can look overseas at some of the initiatives that 34 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 3: have been carried out by other countries and we can 35 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 3: ask ourselves whether those would work in New Zealand and 36 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 3: implement some of them. To be honest, I mean, call 37 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 3: me Captain obvious, but if you shut down business, and 38 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,519 Speaker 3: that's what we did with international tourism, then you probably 39 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 3: have to dial up marketing to win back that business 40 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 3: when you reopen. So ten years ago New Zealand's national 41 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 3: tourism marketing body, that's Tourism New Zealand, had about one 42 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 3: hundred and ten million New Zealand dollars to spend on 43 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 3: international marketing. Fast forward to today and that number has 44 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 3: actually gone down a little bit. It's about one hundred 45 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 3: million today. Meanwhile, we've had huge inflation and the New 46 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 3: Zealand dollar has weakened by about twenty five percent against 47 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 3: the US. So in summary, over a decade, despite the 48 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 3: minor inconvenience of a global pandemic, we've actually reduced our 49 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 3: investment in attracting people to New Zealand for a holiday, 50 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 3: for business and for other reasons. 51 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: Are you pleased with the government's focus now on trying 52 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: to increase tourism numbers and bringing in this digital nomad scheme. 53 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, because it is one hundred percent the right 54 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 3: thing to do. In the hotel industry, we have two 55 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 3: factors we look at when you're looking at performance all 56 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 3: the time, and it makes logical sense, but it's worth 57 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 3: talking through for your listeners. Again, when you're trying to 58 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 3: maximize returns at our hotel, you need to get the 59 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: right mix of occupancy. That's the percentage of rooms that 60 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 3: are filled and room rate. There's no point being one 61 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 3: hundred percent filled if you're only charging ten dollars a night. 62 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 3: There's no point charging ten thousand dollars a night and 63 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 3: not selling any rooms. You've got to maximize that those 64 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: two factors. Now, the strongest position is to sort out 65 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: occupancy first and then you can drive rate and that 66 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 3: makes logical sense the laws of supply and demand. So 67 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 3: New Zealanders, as you said, at the outset, we're hovering 68 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 3: around eighty six percent of pre COVID international visitor arrivals. 69 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 3: In reality, we need to get ourselves to one hundred 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 3: and twenty or one hundred and thirty percent of pre 71 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 3: COVID visitor arrivals. And that's because we've built new hotels 72 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 3: and open new hotels. We've built new bars and restaurants. 73 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 3: We've built three big convention centers, and to be at 74 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 3: par we need to be about one hundred and thirty 75 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 3: percent of pre COVID visitor arrivals. 76 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember the Labor government had a big focus 77 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: on that higher end tourism, those who would come here 78 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: and spend big rather than travel on the cheap Stewart 79 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: Nash was quite anti freedom campers from memory for a while, 80 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 2: there was that the wrong approach. Do you think or 81 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 2: do you think that's contributed to us struggling recovery that switch. 82 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: I think there was some unfortunate consequences of phrasing it 83 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: that way. You know, high value, low volume. I don't 84 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 3: think that's a sensible phrase at all. Every business tries 85 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 3: to maximize returns, and hotels, for example, are dynamically priced, 86 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 3: meaning that the price changes depending on demand every day. 87 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 3: No hotel intentionally leaves money on the table. But New 88 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 3: Zealand is not a cheap destination to travel to. We're 89 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: a long flight away. Our domestic airfares certainly aren't cheap 90 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 3: at the moment, and no traveler to New Zealand, no 91 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 3: international visitor, is kind of low value. People backpacking and 92 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 3: camping around the country spend money throughout our regions and 93 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 3: that's an incredibly valuable thing. So solving tourism growing demand, 94 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 3: the key issues have always been seasonality and dispersal. Seasonality, 95 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 3: we've got hotels, particularly in winter, that are emptier than 96 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 3: they should be, and airports that are emptier than they 97 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 3: should be, and convention centers that are emptier than they 98 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 3: should be, so we need to do more to drive 99 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 3: people to come to New Zealand in the shoulder seasons 100 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 3: and low seasons. That seasonality disperse is moving people around 101 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 3: the country. We don't just want people going to Queenstown. 102 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 3: So let's focus more on our emptier city centers. Let's 103 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 3: drive people into Auckland, Wellington and other urban centers because 104 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 3: New Zealanders would be delighted to have those urban centers 105 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 3: busy with tourists. 106 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 4: Visiting New Zealand just got more expensive. The government announced 107 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 4: Tuesday it will nearly triple entry fees for tourists to 108 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 4: one hundred New Zealand dollars or sixty two dollars twenty US. 109 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 4: Authorities argued it would ensure visitors contributed to public services 110 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 4: and high quality experiences while visiting the country. Matt Doosey 111 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 4: is the New Zealand Minister for Tourism and Hospitality. 112 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 5: What we want to do is shift some of the 113 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 5: costs from the taxpayer to the visitor, and ultimately what 114 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 5: we want to do is grow tourism. We've got an 115 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 5: ambitious target to double our exports as a country over 116 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 5: the next ten years. 117 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 2: And tourists now have to pay one hundred bucks at 118 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 2: the border. That made international headlines. 119 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: Do you reckon? That's a bit off putting. 120 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 3: Again, the timing of that announcement when other countries were 121 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 3: reducing visa costs or introducing visa free travel, that perhaps 122 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 3: could have been better, But that decision has been made. 123 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 3: Now the key issue is how do we use that 124 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 3: one hundred dollars per international traveler to help the tourist 125 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: industry and the New Zealand economy recover as fast as possible. 126 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 3: And again, the reason for wanting more tourists in is 127 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 3: because tourists massively overcontribute in tax that they pay relative 128 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: to what they use. All the GST they pay on 129 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 3: all the spending they do in New Zealand is way 130 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 3: more than the amount of money that gets reinvested back 131 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 3: into tourists. So the IVL at one hundred New Zealand 132 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 3: dollars for many international travelers is not out of line 133 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 3: with some other countries. So how do we use that 134 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 3: one hundred New Zealand dollars IVL to attract more international 135 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 3: tourists back to New Zealand quickly so we can fill 136 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 3: up our bars, our restaurants, our retailers and our shops 137 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 3: that rely on free spending international travelers. Now that messaging 138 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 3: we're getting out of the government now is a willingness 139 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 3: to really dial those efforts up. And that's a very 140 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 3: very good thing. 141 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: So what's best case scenario here, What like an international 142 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: campaign to get people to Gore or something. 143 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 3: Well, I'm sure the good folk of Gore would love 144 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 3: more international travelers coming to their spot. International campaigns are 145 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 3: certainly part of it. But remember I talked about seasonality 146 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 3: and dispersal, and that opens up the idea of what 147 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 3: tourism experts called mice meetings, incentives, conventions and exhibitions. A 148 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 3: tourist to New Zealand is not just a backpacker or 149 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 3: someone hiking through our national parks. If you have three 150 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 3: thousand Chinese Amway executives in the CBD of Auckland, those 151 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 3: three thousand people are tourists as well. So some of 152 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:11,359 Speaker 3: this can be a specific campaign to drive more Australians 153 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 3: to New Zealand quickly, because Australia is a market that 154 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 3: hasn't fully recovered yet. That is one intervention we could 155 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 3: do now to help tourism. But we could also look at, 156 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 3: say three fairly new international standard convention centers, and we 157 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:30,119 Speaker 3: could think deeply about how we activate those three wonderful 158 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 3: urban assets in the long term to make sure New 159 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 3: Zealand also has an outstanding reputation for mice rather than 160 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 3: just an outstanding reputation for the beauty of our landscapes. 161 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: When it comes to the digital nomad visa, there are 162 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 2: places overseas that have seen like cultural shifts, you know, 163 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 2: corner stores turning into generic coffee shops, that kind of thing. 164 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 2: I guess we're in a bit of a different situation 165 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: here in New Zealand. Hey, the cultural diversity in Auckland, 166 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 2: for example, I bet won't be as impacted as the 167 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: one in a tiny town in the Spanish Alps for example. 168 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 3: Hey, look, I agree with you, and I think also 169 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 3: the nomad visa was kind of filling a hole. I 170 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 3: think it started with a YouTuber who put out a 171 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 3: positive tweet about New Zealand. And of course the YouTuber 172 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 3: gets gets paid for their podcast appearance, unlike hotel company 173 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 3: executives like me. But yeah, you know, he put out 174 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 3: a podcast and that was technically a breach of his 175 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 3: visa conditions. So I think what they've done is they've said, hey, 176 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 3: that kind of thing is okay. In Spain. As I 177 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 3: understand it, there were tax advantages to be on this 178 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 3: separate visa called a digital nomad visa, and you could 179 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 3: stay for up to five years. New Zealand's not doing that. 180 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 3: We're just clarifying that people who are on visitor visas 181 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 3: in New Zealand can pull out the laptop and do 182 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 3: some work. And I think that's clearly a good thing, 183 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 3: but it's not going to fill the gap and demand 184 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 3: some of these other interventions. You and I talked about 185 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 3: what's needed to move us from eighty seven percent of 186 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 3: pre COVID visitor arrivals two one hundred and thirty hotels 187 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 3: today in New Zealand are about ten points of occupancy, 188 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 3: ten percentage points emptier than they should be. And there 189 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 3: are about thirty five thousand hotel rooms in New Zealand. 190 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 3: So that's just hotels, that's not motels and short term 191 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 3: rental accommodation. And so you know, ten percentage points emptier 192 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 3: than they should be means three and a half thousand 193 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 3: more tourists we could easily handle, or ten Boeing aircraft 194 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 3: could could be handled very very comfortably with the existing hotels. 195 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, James. 196 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 3: You're very welcome. Thanks a lot. 197 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 5: Justin. 198 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 2: We're now joined from Barcelona by freelance writer Marta Bufsels 199 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: to discuss how tourism and digital nomads have been leaving 200 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 2: a trail of issues across the country. When did this 201 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:10,119 Speaker 2: backlash over the I guess over tourism start in Barcelona 202 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: because it feels like it's been going on there for 203 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 2: quite some time now. 204 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's been going on for about a decade probably, 205 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 6: but the real huge backlash we're seeing now started around 206 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 6: the pandemic, or it increased with the pandemic, because well, 207 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 6: I should say, obviously tourism stopped in twenty twenty and 208 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 6: with all the lockdowns, but then afterwards when things opened up, 209 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 6: it sky rocketed and they saw record numbers. The pressure 210 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 6: is felt in several specific places in Spain and not 211 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 6: in others. And I live in Barcelona, which is the 212 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 6: example I know best, and it's you know, where I 213 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 6: grew up as well, and I've seen the absolutely huge 214 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 6: difference over the decades. It's a city that cannot cope 215 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 6: with the mass tourism it's been getting. It was a problem, 216 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 6: you know, ten years ago, but since twenty twenty one, 217 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 6: twenty twenty two, it's been really extreme. 218 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,479 Speaker 7: It causes a lot of problems. 219 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 6: And then the digital nomad situation was probably you know, 220 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 6: the cherry on top or just the thing that made 221 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 6: rage spill over. 222 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, how drastically has the city changed as a result 223 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 2: of all of this tourism and the digital nomad visa 224 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 2: very drastically. 225 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 6: I think the biggest impact has been on housing because 226 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 6: it's not a big city, it doesn't have room to grow, 227 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 6: and it was already very very dense. One of the 228 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 6: dnsists in Europe, and rents have increased sixty percent in 229 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 6: a decade, and salaries, of course have not increased. In fact, 230 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 6: there's huge inflation and you know, the cost of living 231 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 6: has risen for everybody. But tourism was an issue, and well, 232 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 6: not tourism, over tourism, mass tourism, airbnb sort of gentrification, 233 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 6: which is a you know, is an issue in many 234 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 6: many cities around the world, but here it's a bit 235 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 6: of a pressure cooker in the sense that there isn't 236 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 6: that much housing. The salaries that digital nos tend to 237 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 6: have are very very high, and they pay twice three 238 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 6: times what you know what an already expensive rent literally 239 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 6: three years ago. They work for wealthier sort of for 240 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 6: wealthy companies, for wealthier economies. They already arrived with a 241 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 6: really huge income that doesn't compare to most people in 242 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 6: the city. So it's a case of extreme gentrification, and 243 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 6: it's a case of locals feeling like they're being pushed out. 244 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 6: There's a huge protest going on right now around an eviction. 245 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 7: That is planned. 246 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 6: An investment fund bought an entire building, and little by little, 247 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 6: when you know, when when people's rent expired, they evicted them, 248 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 6: and they're trying to just make a lot of money 249 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 6: from from just renting these flats for you know, five 250 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 6: times what the rents used to be, and they're trying 251 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 6: to evict a particular neighbor right now, and there are 252 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 6: protests on that street every day. People are you know, 253 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 6: sleeping intents in order to be there in the morning. 254 00:14:58,960 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 7: And stop the eviction. 255 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 6: And this is happening in the center of the city, 256 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 6: in a very middle class neighborhood. And this is quite 257 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 6: telling because what's happening with this extreme amounts of tourism 258 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 6: and essentially very wealthy tourists choosing to live here, and 259 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 6: more than doubling the rents, is that it's now affecting 260 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 6: the middle. 261 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 8: Class when they VEX two, four or even a single person. 262 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 8: Like we always say, if they touch one of us, 263 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 8: they touch all of us, and we will always be 264 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 8: by the side. 265 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 6: That Barcelona has an issue with access to house and 266 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 6: astronomical rents, but a lot of that is about sort 267 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 6: of turning flats into short term rents. What I mean 268 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 6: is eleven month rents. The problem seems to be more 269 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 6: focused on, as I say, digital nomads or just wealthy 270 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 6: workers from richer countries just choosing to come here for 271 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 6: the lifestyle. The other big issue is the cultural impact 272 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 6: of this. But yeah, choosing to come here for the 273 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 6: lifestyle and then paying you know, four times what a 274 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 6: normal local rent would be, or like an average local 275 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 6: rent would be, because that is so much more profitable 276 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 6: to I don't know if it's landlords or huge investment 277 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 6: funds or whatever, they try to have these eleven month rents. 278 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 6: So it's housing, it's not quite the it's not quite 279 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 6: the weekend stay. Where the focus is now is this 280 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 6: eleven month thing, because that's a loophole the law doesn't 281 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 6: allow rental contracts for less than leases for less than 282 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 6: five years, Like that's what you get when you rent 283 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 6: a flat at least five years, but they have a 284 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 6: loophole where they can make it eleven months less than 285 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 6: a year. It's a different sort of law, and that's 286 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 6: what they're doing there basically. 287 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 7: I mean, as is the case in the. 288 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 6: Street I mentioned earlier, they're evicting someone who's lived there 289 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 6: for decades to turn it into a you know, less 290 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 6: than a year rental situation. 291 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 7: So it's slightly different. 292 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 6: It's for people living here, not so much tourists, but 293 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 6: it's the digital normach sort of situation that's very new 294 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 6: and that that has risen rent because we had or 295 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 6: the city had, you know, mass tourism in twenty fifteen 296 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 6: and rents were relatively relatively stable. I say relatively, you know, 297 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 6: Airbnb was a huge issue, but this seems on another scale. 298 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 6: I mean, the sixty percent increase is mind boggling, and 299 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 6: it's it's being you know, strongly felt by everybody. I mean, 300 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 6: you can't, Yeah, it's it's very anxiety inducing to look at. 301 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 7: What's for rent out there. It's just impossible. 302 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 2: This line stuck out for me. In your British Vogue piece, 303 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 2: you said, anyone who treats a foreign city as their 304 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: personal playground isn't adding anything to the mixed beyond cultural imperialism. 305 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 2: Can you explain to me what the cultural impact of 306 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: so many people coming into Barcelona is. 307 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 6: Absolutely, I mean, this is I think just an example 308 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 6: of the gentrification happening in so many different places and 309 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 6: also the flattening of a lot of cultures that's happening 310 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 6: on social media, and you know, as a product of 311 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 6: the Internet, so it's not unique to hear there is 312 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 6: some of you know, what's been talked about as the 313 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 6: generic coffee shop phenomenon that you know, a lot of 314 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 6: places now look like like establishments that could be in 315 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 6: any city in the world. They look exactly the same 316 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 6: as something you could find in Melbourne or in London. 317 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 7: But that's probably you know, just also because of the 318 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 7: Internet and just where where we're at. 319 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 6: But I said that because there's a strong sense from 320 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 6: locals that they are sort of background, you know, background 321 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 6: extras to somebody else's adventure or life. This is how 322 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 6: we I would say, many of us often feel I 323 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 6: lived in London for over a decade, and I've you know, 324 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 6: spent a lot of time in the US, so I 325 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 6: recognize a lot of the conversations, you know, I hear 326 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 6: in coffee shops or on the street. I hear a 327 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 6: lot of Americans talking about buying houses or about their 328 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 6: pretty luxurious lifestyle here, and I hear a lot of 329 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 6: Brits and I have nothing, you know, like, I just 330 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 6: recognize the conversations, and I I hear them talk about 331 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 6: their lifestyle basically, which is luxurious because obviously it's cheaper 332 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 6: to them than their home countries are. And it just 333 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 6: it's something that i've I was reading about San Francisco 334 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 6: the other day and something you know, similar was being said, 335 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 6: and it sort of erases a lot of the diversity. 336 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 7: I just want to be very clear that this is it's. 337 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 6: Almost the opposite of diversity, because I think this city 338 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 6: has always been open to anyone who you know, to immigration, 339 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,959 Speaker 6: to especially to refugees. You know, it's been very open, 340 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 6: and diversity only makes it richer, and it was getting 341 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 6: more and more diverse and more interesting and more. I 342 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 6: don't know, it's open, it's always it's always felt like that, 343 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 6: but this is, this is almost I don't know, it 344 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 6: feels extremely different and I think that, Yeah, the word imperialism. 345 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 7: Has been used. 346 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 6: It was like a tongue in cheek to clarify, but 347 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 6: it's sometimes talked about as more of a colonial attitude. 348 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 6: You know, how some people just use the world as 349 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 6: they as their playground. 350 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 7: It's just so palpable. 351 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 6: I mean, we have two official languages here and one 352 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 6: one is Catalan, and of course it's it's an endangered language, 353 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 6: so people care about you know, people care about it, 354 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 6: and it's already it's already not doing great sometimes, you know, 355 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 6: it's it's a language, yeah, that is close to a 356 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 6: lot of people's heart, and they speak it and we're 357 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 6: pretty used to a lot of people not speaking it. 358 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 7: But a lot of digital normals just don't even tried Spanish. 359 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 7: They just they just speak in English. 360 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 6: They come into a bakery or whatever, and they just 361 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 6: expect to speak English. And not everybody is like that, 362 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 6: but there's, you know, countless examples of this kind of attitude. 363 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 7: You just kind of see it everywhere. 364 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 6: It's tricky to say, you know, because you don't want 365 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 6: to generalize, but it's also pretty obvious when a lot of. 366 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 9: Just very unique neighborhood shops have closed down and they 367 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 9: are now coffee shops or whatever, or yoga studios or 368 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 9: co working spaces with all the signage in English and. 369 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 7: Again like you could be in any of their city. 370 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 6: And it's just it is sad because a lot of 371 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 6: those establishments made the city unique, you know, they were 372 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 6: part of the character. 373 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, my pleasure, Thank you for having me. 374 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 375 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 376 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 2: at endsid. 377 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: Herald, dot co dot m Z. 378 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 2: The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, 379 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 2: who is also a sound engineer. 380 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 381 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 382 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 383 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 2: behind the headlines.