WEBVTT - Cameron Luxton: ACT calls for more powers for Kāinga Ora

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks'd

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<v Speaker 1>be so.

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<v Speaker 2>The ACT party is calling for more powers for conger

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<v Speaker 2>Aura to terminate tenancies. Was triggered by a recent ruling

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<v Speaker 2>by the Tenancy Tribunal where get this, a tenant with

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five complaints, six warnings, and police police call outs

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<v Speaker 2>and even an alleged shooting will not have their tenancy

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<v Speaker 2>terminated after the Tenancy Tribunal rule that insufficient evidence was

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<v Speaker 2>provided to justify a diction, basically because all the witnesses

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<v Speaker 2>are too scared. There was an overhaul last year that

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<v Speaker 2>made it easier for Conga Aora to evict tenant, but

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<v Speaker 2>Acts ACT thinks that more is needed and at Party

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<v Speaker 2>Housing spokesperson Cameron Luxton is with me now, good afternoon.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, good afternoon. Come, thanks for having me on on this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah good.

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<v Speaker 3>Look.

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<v Speaker 2>Is this a one off? Or are we seeing this

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<v Speaker 2>is the tip of the iceberg or a broader problem?

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<v Speaker 3>But the real concern is that it isn't a one off.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'll tell you why, because you've got right now

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<v Speaker 3>tenants who will people in the facility, residents who are

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<v Speaker 3>now fearful after this tendency wasn't terminated through a tendency

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<v Speaker 3>tribunal hearing. They're now fearful of speaking up or that

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<v Speaker 3>they may be victims of violence. I think we have

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<v Speaker 3>to be concerned that this is happening more often around

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<v Speaker 3>the country because fundamentally the problem lies when if someone

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<v Speaker 3>wishes to make a complaint against someone in their neighborhood,

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<v Speaker 3>if they don't have access to a private situation where

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<v Speaker 3>they can give evidence, a private testimony or hearing, well,

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<v Speaker 3>they do expose themselves to repercussions. And that's something that

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<v Speaker 3>we've got to change. So, yeah, you're right, there's been

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<v Speaker 3>some changes in what the policies of kying or order are.

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<v Speaker 3>In fact, act campaigned and got through in the coalition

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<v Speaker 3>government an end to the Sustaining Tendencies framework, the policy

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<v Speaker 3>to keep people in coying lad of tendencies, whether it

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<v Speaker 3>was we're as good or bad for the community. So

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<v Speaker 3>we've got an end to that. But this process has

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<v Speaker 3>shown that kind order needs even more support, or even

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<v Speaker 3>that the neighborhood needs more support, and that if they

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<v Speaker 3>are fearful of repercussion, they should be able to give

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<v Speaker 3>these testimonies so that they can be taken into account

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<v Speaker 3>at tendency tribunal hearings.

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<v Speaker 2>Is it a case that I mean, ky Or has

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<v Speaker 2>got the you know, being given the directions to be

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<v Speaker 2>tougher on this stuff, but you've still got the tendency Tribunal.

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<v Speaker 2>Do we need to do we need an overhaul in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of what evidence they can consider.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well that's what I'm That's what I'm myself as

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<v Speaker 3>a spokesman for the act party. That is what I'm

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<v Speaker 3>proposing right now, what I'm calling for. I think that

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<v Speaker 3>the requirement right now that it has that kind order

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<v Speaker 3>has to prove antisocial behavior should be including testimony from

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<v Speaker 3>other residents in the area. And the fact that this

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<v Speaker 3>wasn't the evidence threshold wasn't found by the tendency tribunal

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<v Speaker 3>because no one would go on the record up and

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<v Speaker 3>put their name and face out there for their for

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<v Speaker 3>their neighbors to see. Uh, And that led to the

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<v Speaker 3>Tendancy trubunal finding is not enough evidence in this case,

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<v Speaker 3>even though as you say, there had been more than

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<v Speaker 3>a couple of dozen events, including the distuch charge of

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<v Speaker 3>a firearm. I mean that just shows that we're at

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<v Speaker 3>a point now where the Tendancy Tribunal is the bond

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<v Speaker 3>neck not kind of order?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean you've got the police. The evidence of

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<v Speaker 2>police call outs is not something that's here, say, is it?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's this Is this just a lousy decision

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<v Speaker 2>by the Tennessey Tribunal or what?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I hesitate to criticize.

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<v Speaker 2>The t you can't do that, but I can you.

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<v Speaker 3>Know that's yeah, well that's I mean, there's contumity there.

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<v Speaker 3>But basically what we've got is a threshold for evidence

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<v Speaker 3>which isn't fit for what the current situation is. And

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<v Speaker 3>you know, people all around New Zealand have got kind

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<v Speaker 3>of order in their communities or wanting kind of order,

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<v Speaker 3>wanting to do developments in the communities. Stories like this

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<v Speaker 3>do not help social cohesion in accepting that as part

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<v Speaker 3>of a functioning community to accept people in happily, we

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<v Speaker 3>need to make sure that the settings are right and

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<v Speaker 3>the tendency tribunal settings on having evidence clearly aren't right.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is not so much a kind of aura issue.

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<v Speaker 2>They're the ones who are bringing the case to get

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<v Speaker 2>rid of these tenants. This is this is a tenanty

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<v Speaker 2>tribunal evidence evidence sort of issue, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 3>Well? K Like yeah, like you've said, and I've said,

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<v Speaker 3>the kind Orders had a change in policy when the

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<v Speaker 3>government changed and kind order is a landlord. Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 3>a landlord on behalf of the government, but it is

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<v Speaker 3>a landlord, and many landlords have had issues going to

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<v Speaker 3>the tendency tribunal. I wonder how much more widespread this

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<v Speaker 3>actually is in the private rental market as well. This

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<v Speaker 3>could just be, as you say, the tiberty iceberg. But

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<v Speaker 3>I think the real, the real issue we've got here

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<v Speaker 3>is that a landlord, whether the government or a private

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<v Speaker 3>need to be able to trust that when people when

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<v Speaker 3>they rally enough people around to say, look, this is

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<v Speaker 3>actually a problem for this tendancy and it's causing serious disruptions,

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<v Speaker 3>or even just treating a asset like a publicly taxpayer

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<v Speaker 3>funded house in just this sort of disregard and the

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<v Speaker 3>entitlement that's being shown by people to treat something like this,

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<v Speaker 3>they need to go to the back of the housing queue.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's what we should be at. The king Orders

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<v Speaker 3>should be able to kick out a tenant who's doing

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<v Speaker 3>twenty five issues that have been reported discharge of firearm.

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<v Speaker 3>When that gets reported, someone needs to back out and

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<v Speaker 3>they need to go to the back of the housing.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's not good enough that we have people waiting

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<v Speaker 3>for social housing. Well, somebody is able to do this.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're suggesting that King Aora should simply have more

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<v Speaker 2>power to evict people without resort to the tenantcy tribunal

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<v Speaker 2>or are you suggesting an overhaul of the tenants y

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<v Speaker 2>tribunal as well, including allowing broader sort of evidence in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of the number of anonymous complaints and police involvement

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<v Speaker 2>in the property.

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<v Speaker 3>What I'm calling for, well, look, I think Coying Order

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<v Speaker 3>has had their direction and that is the end of

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<v Speaker 3>the Sustaining Tendencies policy and Coying Order. There should be

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<v Speaker 3>a simple process within the bureaucracy, and I want to

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<v Speaker 3>see a kind of order bureaucracy that's complicated where it

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<v Speaker 3>has to go up through many layers. There needs to

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<v Speaker 3>be a direct way to deal with tendencies quickly that

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<v Speaker 3>are becoming antisocial for the community, because this is a

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<v Speaker 3>wider community issue. But what I'm calling for is to

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<v Speaker 3>say we need to be able to have people feel

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<v Speaker 3>like they can give testimony to the tendency tribunal in

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<v Speaker 3>a private way that protects their anonanimity, because that is

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<v Speaker 3>what is that issue with many people wanting to give

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<v Speaker 3>giving evidence in this case, those people should be able

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<v Speaker 3>to and those people giving evidence in either way, either

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<v Speaker 3>in defense of a tenant or in saying there is

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<v Speaker 3>antisocial behavior having a tendency, those people should be able

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<v Speaker 3>to do it on either side of the case in

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<v Speaker 3>a private way. And the fact that that wasn't allowed

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<v Speaker 3>to happen seems to be from this case a major

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<v Speaker 3>issue from the tendency tribunal being able to make it ruling.

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<v Speaker 2>How can we protect witnesses in a way, because I

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<v Speaker 2>mean also people within the neighborhood, I mean they might

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<v Speaker 2>not want to give evidence because even if it's anonymous,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, obviously the people in the vicinity are going

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<v Speaker 2>to be the ones who those who are being targeted

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<v Speaker 2>are going to think, well, it's probably them or this.

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<v Speaker 3>Lot, Well that's right, and even yeah, and even then

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<v Speaker 3>if you can raise speculation across a whole lot of people,

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<v Speaker 3>so yeah, fair enough, But there needs to be a

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<v Speaker 3>situation where the events can actually be tabled because as

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<v Speaker 3>we're found in this case, there was not There was

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<v Speaker 3>found that that king order wasn't able to produce enough evidence,

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<v Speaker 3>but there's clearly people that felt like they had a

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<v Speaker 3>story to tell about what they've witnessed with this property

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<v Speaker 3>that weren't able to go on the record and say it,

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<v Speaker 3>and therefore the Tendency Tribunal didn't take it into account

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<v Speaker 3>and they said that the tendency can remain.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think we should actually even have a I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>when it comes to the tents Tribunal, we should actually

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<v Speaker 2>amend the law that if there have been a certain

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<v Speaker 2>number of complaints that can be considered, in other words,

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<v Speaker 2>even if they haven't got the witnesses in front of them,

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<v Speaker 2>if they've been saved. How many in this case we

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<v Speaker 2>had twenty five complaints, six warnings, police call outs as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Should they be able to sort of consider the broader

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<v Speaker 2>evidence without having to get corroborated testimony from individual witnesses.

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<v Speaker 3>I think you definitely want to have corroborated testimony. I

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<v Speaker 3>think it would be a tricky thing to say, let's

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<v Speaker 3>have a certain number of complaints, because you get you

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<v Speaker 3>can have a gang up mentality, we've also neighbors at

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<v Speaker 3>war or experienced it ourselves, and you don't want to

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<v Speaker 3>have the social dynamic of a group of people who

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<v Speaker 3>don't particularly like a neighbors starting that up. But I

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<v Speaker 3>think in this case we've got what seems like a

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<v Speaker 3>very serious issue that looked like the tendency tribunal couldn't

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<v Speaker 3>take into account because of the requirement on making and

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<v Speaker 3>making complaints public. I think that it would be a

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<v Speaker 3>bit of a stretch to say, let's just have a

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<v Speaker 3>set number and as soon as you hit that number,

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<v Speaker 3>you're out. That would be a rife for people taking

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<v Speaker 3>advantage of. But I think just actually in this case,

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<v Speaker 3>having the ability of a tendency tribunal to hear evidence

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<v Speaker 3>on behalf of residence in the neighborhood of the experience

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<v Speaker 3>they've had and make a judgment based on that without

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<v Speaker 3>having to make that public.

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<v Speaker 2>Would be Okay. We're to now then, Because it's one

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<v Speaker 2>thing to say this is what we've changed, it's another

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<v Speaker 2>thing to get a change cracking, and it's not seem

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<v Speaker 2>to get it through the legislative process. This set looks

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<v Speaker 2>like the long haul again, doesn't it? For tenants and landlords?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? What's next? I mean, on my behalf, just getting

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<v Speaker 3>out and talking about this and making a point that

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<v Speaker 3>this isn't something that should be accepted in our country

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<v Speaker 3>as a as a start. But you know, Act's got

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<v Speaker 3>the ACT Party and the coalition negotiations got things across

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<v Speaker 3>the line, such as removing the Sustainable Tency policy. We

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<v Speaker 3>didn't get everything across the line, like having to enabling

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<v Speaker 3>the Tendency Tribunal to have private hearings and evidence was

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<v Speaker 3>another thing they didn't get across the line. But look,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to talk about I'll be discussing it with

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<v Speaker 3>my National and New Zealand First colleagues and see if

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<v Speaker 3>we can get something moving on that.

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<v Speaker 2>Good on here. Okay, thanks Cameron, really appreciate your time.

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate it, and thank you for more from the

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<v Speaker 1>Weekend Collective. Listen live to News Talk ZEDB weekends from

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<v Speaker 1>three pm, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio