1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Nichola Willis is the Finance minister. Hein Nikola, Hi, Heather, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: are you happy for those fairies to keep running for 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: another five years? 4 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 2: Well, as you will have seen, Ebie Rail have today 5 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 2: published their expert advice that got from the world experts 6 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 2: in boats, and they say that those boats are actually 7 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: in pretty good condition. They're doing better than you would 8 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 2: expect at this point, and they say with good maintenance 9 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 2: and good operation, they can operate for several more years. 10 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 2: My focus is on making sure that they do maintain 11 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: them really well and that we do have replacements sorted out. 12 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: And I'm confident. 13 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: Well, well, I mean it's not very and I know 14 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: they say they're operationally safe, but it's not very reassuring 15 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: to hear they're close to opso lessoned parts of them 16 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: and difficult to repair. 17 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: Well, look, I think all of us have had that 18 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 2: experience with something before, and Kiwi Rail's responsibility is to 19 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: make sure every time those fairies bull on the water 20 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 2: with passengers in them, that they are one hundred percent 21 00:00:58,560 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: confident they are safe. 22 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: Isn't that the problem? Well, isn't that the problem? Because 23 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: what we've been shown time and time again is that 24 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: they're difficult to repair, and then you find out kee 25 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: We Rail has badly repaired them using tape they shouldn't 26 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: have have used in the things fallen apart. 27 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: Well, as ministers, we have made it crystal clear that 28 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: our expectation is that Kiwi Row does everything possible. That 29 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: includes what it spends on maintenance, that includes the decisions 30 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: it takes to ensure that those ships are safe. 31 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: Okay, so we can. 32 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 2: Spectation, reset, we can we have the replacements that they 33 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 2: will well, we have been given confidence that we can 34 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: get replacements here well ahead of that twenty twenty nine date. 35 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: Okay, how well ahead, Well, we'll. 36 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: Have announcements to make about that in due course. We're 37 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: just working through those options and we will have more 38 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: say about it. How soon, soon enough that we will 39 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: when we know that there is a lot of interest 40 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: in us. 41 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: The last time I spoke to you, which was like 42 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: maybe two or three weeks ago, you said that it 43 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: could potentially be in the next three months. 44 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. 45 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: It hasn't changed. 46 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: Well. Look, the last government fell into a terrible mistake 47 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 2: which was made a quick decision, which was the wrong decision, 48 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: and we want to be in a position as a 49 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 2: government where we make a sensible decision that will pay 50 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: off the New Zealanders over the long term. 51 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: Listener, were going to support the Aussies when we get 52 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: the food ministers get together on Thursday on the infant 53 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: formula thing. 54 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: There is no way that we can support a provision 55 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: which would wipe potentially two billion dollars of export revenue away. 56 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 2: So we will not be supporting that regulation. Our exporters 57 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 2: are too important and we will be seeking a review 58 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: of those rules when Food ministers meet in Adelaide this week. 59 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: How keen are the Aussies on it? 60 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 2: Well, look, my understanding is that then are of a 61 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 2: mind to support it, but they have a much smaller 62 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: infant formula industry than we do. For us, this is 63 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,119 Speaker 2: a multi billion dollar issue for them. There's to potentially 64 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: a few hundred millions at stake, and ultimately this comes 65 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: down to are we competitives with those Europeans and others 66 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: who produce them for formula and we're not prepared as 67 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 2: listers to put our industry in a position where they're 68 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: facing much harder rules than our competitors internationally are. That's ridiculous, 69 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: that's cutting off our nose Despite our face and we 70 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: will be setting a review. 71 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: Niicola, what's your take as a mum on what is 72 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: going on here with the kind of demonizing of infant 73 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: formula so that people go to breastfeeding. 74 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: My take on a mum is, even as a mum, 75 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: even with the best will in the world, there will 76 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: always be some of us who for some reason I 77 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: can't breastfeed at a particular point, or who choose not to. 78 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: That is life, that is reality. I was really fortunate 79 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: I was able to breastfeed all of my children. But boy, 80 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: oh boy, did I need infant formula to supplement? Yes? 81 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: I do, and that does not make me carerible. What 82 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: I want to know is that the infant formula I'm 83 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: giving my baby is safe. 84 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: It's actually New. 85 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: Zealand Infant Formula providers cre safe infant formula and that's 86 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: what at stakes, and we shouldn't get so overboard that 87 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: we demonize infant formula or the mothers and families who 88 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: use it too. 89 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: Right now, listen, how many more of these court cases 90 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: from the unions are you expecting over public service dismissals? 91 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: Well, the advice that I've had is that this will 92 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: not affect the vast majority of public sector restructures because 93 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 2: this clause is only found in a few contracts, and 94 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 2: I'm confident that the Ministry of Education and other affected 95 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: agencies will be able to continue with your restructure once 96 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 2: the legal obligations have been met. 97 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: How many other affected agencies are there? 98 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 2: Well, I've been advised that the Public Service Commission is 99 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: looking at that, but it's less than half a dozen 100 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: potential contracts which are at stakes, because of course, way 101 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: agency might have several contracts and only some of those 102 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: will contain this particular clause. 103 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: Okay, and do we know which agencies? 104 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: Yes, I have had advice about that, and of course, 105 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: in each instance there's still the opportunity for those agencies 106 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 2: to reflect on the findings of the Employment Authority and 107 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: make sure they take those findings into account as they 108 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 2: conduct their restructuring processes. It's our expectation that all employers 109 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: follow the law, and that includes government employers. 110 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: Can you tell us which agencies? 111 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: I understand that the Ministry for Social Development and all 112 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: raunger Tamariki are among them. 113 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: Okay, So you guys, I just saw it come through 114 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: about an hour ago. You guys are expected to apologize 115 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: are you after the release of that Royal Commission of 116 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: Inquiry into State care abuse? 117 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: Look, that report will be released on Wednesday. That will 118 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 2: be a very important day. I had been some time 119 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: over the weekend reading portions of their purporter. It's more 120 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: than three thousand pages of total. Its findings are extremely significant. 121 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: The stories it tells are really harrowing, and we will 122 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 2: be taking great care as a government on Wednesday and 123 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: in the weeks and months following to respond to it appropriately. 124 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: So are you apologizing on Wednesday or sometime thereafter? 125 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 2: We want to make sure that any Crown apology is 126 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 2: offered when all affected survivors are able to be there. 127 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 2: We want to make sure that it's done in an 128 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 2: appropriate way in consultation with those survivors. So on Wednesday 129 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 2: we will offer our response. It's a very significant day, 130 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 2: but it would not be the setting for the formal apology. 131 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: Niicola, Can we actually stop the stuff from happening? Though? 132 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 2: We have an obligation to ensure that when people are 133 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: being looked after by the state, we have taken steps 134 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: to ensure that they are safe, that there are independent 135 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 2: oversights to look at their safety, that when they make 136 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: complaints they are taken seriously, and I am convinced by 137 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: what I have read that there is much more that 138 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: we can do and should have done in the past. 139 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: And will there still be individual human beings who are 140 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: bad people? Yes, that is a fact. But can we 141 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: make sure our systems are better? Yes? 142 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: Nicola, thank you very much. I really appreciate Nichola Willis, 143 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: the Finance Minister. For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, 144 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: Listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, 145 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.