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Speaker 2: another week. This week it is Test Week. Finally it
Speaker 2: has arrived. Elligott Smith with me as always Liam Napier
Speaker 2: from the New Zealand Herald and Liam feels like I've
Speaker 2: been waiting for this for quite some time and finally
Speaker 2: we are into Test week.
Speaker 3: We are great to be here, isn't it.
Speaker 4: We haven't waited quite as long as Scott robertson sixteen
Speaker 4: months on since he was officially appointed to succeed Ian Foster.
Speaker 3: But here we are Test Week. Hint Dunedin.
Speaker 4: It's going to be fresh, pretty glad there's a roof
Speaker 4: and can't wait to get stuck into some Tomatrow juice.
Speaker 2: Oh, for God's sake, m you'll be recited any access
Speaker 2: that you might have a huge order of that. I
Speaker 2: guess we'll get the team on Thursday. But let's talk
Speaker 2: through perhaps the likely twenty three for the All Blacks
Speaker 2: that we see it perhaps unfolding now. I guess the
Speaker 2: front row probably picks itself in the form of De Groot, Taylor, Lomax.
Speaker 2: Any arguments there.
Speaker 4: No provided everyone's fit and wearing to go and we
Speaker 4: assume they are.
Speaker 2: Yep locks Captain Scott.
Speaker 3: Barrett, yep, he's a lot.
Speaker 2: He's a lot, Yes he is.
Speaker 4: And if he's fits, I think Patrick twopolo two has
Speaker 4: done more than enough to start and his leadership, his experience,
Speaker 4: the way he played for the Blues this year. But
Speaker 4: I guess there is a big question mark over his knee,
Speaker 4: so if he's not fit then to go straight in there.
Speaker 2: One of the issues probably that is going to cause
Speaker 2: some headaches or some debate around the selection table. Although
Speaker 2: Scott Robertson himself is selecting the loose forwards and he
Speaker 2: has the casting vote over all selections, so maybe discussing
Speaker 2: with himself as the loose folds, which way do you
Speaker 2: see this guy? There's any number of combinations they can
Speaker 2: put out there. I guess the most obvious one is
Speaker 2: Artie Survey is going to be at the back of
Speaker 2: the scrum, but blindside and open side flanker certainly seem
Speaker 2: up for grabs, perhaps open side least so. But there's
Speaker 2: a bit of a debate around where we go with blindside.
Speaker 2: Open side should be doled in pupper lead, blindside flanker.
Speaker 4: Anyone's guess, Yeah, Look, I think if you look back
Speaker 4: to the World Cup and Shennifrazzel's exit, blindside is a
Speaker 4: massive hole to film.
Speaker 3: When we talk about the eligibility to.
Speaker 4: Discussion and Richiemonger and Seennif Frazel are front of that queue.
Speaker 4: They are guys that by and large are replaceable. Jennifrazel
Speaker 4: took a long time to find his best form, only
Speaker 4: really when Jason Rowan came on board, but he became
Speaker 4: that enforcer in the pack, the domin ball carrier, defender.
Speaker 4: Everything you want from a blind side and so the
Speaker 4: massive shoes to feel and we don't know quite where
Speaker 4: the All Blacks are going to go with it. I
Speaker 4: suspect their first choice blindside ethan blackheader hasn't played a
Speaker 4: lot of rugby this year, but you do have other
Speaker 4: options within that squad. Luke Jacobson Summer Penny Female is
Speaker 4: probably the most likeful like in terms of his physical nature.
Speaker 4: I suspect they will probably go ethan blackheader, but I'm
Speaker 4: not totally convinced on that.
Speaker 2: What I reckon, I'll probably lenank towards going with Fena
Speaker 2: for this opening test. I think he's more of a
Speaker 2: potentially like for light replacement with Shannon Frazel. He's that enforcer.
Speaker 2: He's had a very very good Super Rugby season. The
Speaker 2: one caveat to that is he's providing the lot cover
Speaker 2: in this team as well, so I wonder whether he
Speaker 2: may end up being on the bench just because of that,
Speaker 2: especially for the first couple of tests.
Speaker 3: I suspect do you really need that if you've got
Speaker 3: a specialist.
Speaker 2: Lock there, No, not necessarily, but I think it's approaps
Speaker 2: a risk your proposition. That's why I would take Female
Speaker 2: on the reserves bench and you can't do the wa
Speaker 2: ifs or play what ifs. But I think that's probably
Speaker 2: where they may lean. But personally, I think Female deserves
Speaker 2: the first crack. As you mentioned, he think blake It
Speaker 2: hasn't had a lot of game time this year. Potentially
Speaker 2: long term he is their preferred starting blind side. But
Speaker 2: I think for this test you've also got a balanced
Speaker 2: players that have had game time, and so I think
Speaker 2: that's where you go Semmerpenny feenw to start.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a compelling argument there.
Speaker 4: He was the hat man for the Chiefs, wasn't He
Speaker 4: pushed the boundaries and you know, love to crunch first
Speaker 4: fives and I think you need a player in your
Speaker 4: team like that to put the ships up the opposition
Speaker 4: for one of a better term, to be that enforcer
Speaker 4: in the pack. So Summer Penny brings that Ethan Blackheader
Speaker 4: is a different player. He's probably a wee bit more mobile,
Speaker 4: but a similar love for the physic, the physical nature
Speaker 4: of it. He's probably better at the breakdown over the
Speaker 4: ball because he can play open side number eight, and
Speaker 4: he's probably they're probably on a par when it comes
Speaker 4: to line out abilities. Some Apeni has played Locke, So yeah,
Speaker 4: I think we agree that it's basically between Black at
Speaker 4: it and female. Can't see them starting Luke Jacobson straight
Speaker 4: off the bat. There the other question we'll go through
Speaker 4: the rest of the team, but just want to throw
Speaker 4: something at your hair. So Ben Ill, the English number
Speaker 4: eight played, spent a lot of the second half against
Speaker 4: Japan last week for England in the back line in
Speaker 4: the midfield specifically that allow could allow England to stack
Speaker 4: their bench with Fords. Is that going to factor into
Speaker 4: the All Blacks thinking when it comes to their bench.
Speaker 4: Do they need to go like for like and match
Speaker 4: England for their number of Fords that they may stack
Speaker 4: the bench with.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: You play your own game, I think, and we still
Speaker 2: do this at the World Cup with the seven to
Speaker 2: one bench obviously was a key factor in certainly the
Speaker 2: game twicken them, but they had already cantered away with
Speaker 2: it to a certain point. Don't know if it was
Speaker 2: necessarily the tipping point in the final them having a
Speaker 2: seven to one bench in the World Cup last year,
Speaker 2: but I think you play your own game. Scott Robinson
Speaker 2: was asked about this yet now with Jason Pye talk
Speaker 2: Back on the weekend and didn't roll it out as
Speaker 2: a potential option at some point this season. But I
Speaker 2: think a bit reluctant just because of the issues it
Speaker 2: causes with the backs. And we've seen through the last
Speaker 2: fifteen to twenty years how much the All Blacks like
Speaker 2: having those fresh pair of legs from the backs come
Speaker 2: in and with McKenzie's done in the pass, Bot and
Speaker 2: Barrett running at tired opposition leagus. Now when you're bringing
Speaker 2: on a forward pack, that mitigates the tiredness from the
Speaker 2: opposition a little bit. But I still think that's a
Speaker 2: key part of the All Blacks DNA is having those
Speaker 2: fresh legs at the backs running it tired opposition in
Speaker 2: front row. So I don't know that that necessarily is
Speaker 2: going to factor in fiel Blacks thinking this week.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4: I think you need to stick to what you want
Speaker 4: to do, and the All Blacks traditionally they love those
Speaker 4: live wise on the bench and the versatility that backspring.
Speaker 4: If we move on to the half backs. For me,
Speaker 4: this area is very much a bit of a holding
Speaker 4: pedtern to a degree, and I'll make the same argument
Speaker 4: for fallback when we get to that. But cam Ro
Speaker 4: regard this is his era, as Aaron Smith said on
Speaker 4: the pod a number of weeks ago. Now when he's fit,
Speaker 4: he provided he comes back in the same sort of
Speaker 4: form and shape, well, this is his time for now.
Speaker 3: It's very intriguing.
Speaker 4: You could potentially go one of three ways here, TJ.
Speaker 4: Petina corta orten lay CHRISTI where do you see them
Speaker 4: going at half back?
Speaker 2: I think they'll go with TJ Pedina on the basis
Speaker 2: of his experience to this point, and you need to
Speaker 2: sprinkle that in through the team as much as you can,
Speaker 2: especially when you've had a truncated build up to the
Speaker 2: first Test of the season. Your opposition has already played
Speaker 2: a Test match in this window or in this period
Speaker 2: of time, so I think someone like TJ Petinara his
Speaker 2: experience would be valuable. You could flip that and go
Speaker 2: having him come off the bench could be vital in
Speaker 2: the last twenty twenty five minutes, but I think you'd
Speaker 2: lead out with the experience. Finlay Christie's played a number
Speaker 2: of Test matches from the bench, so i'd bring him
Speaker 2: off the bench later on Cortez Rasima, I think we'll
Speaker 2: have to wait for his debut. Completely agree though it
Speaker 2: is a holding pattern. Once cam Royguard's back, that's his
Speaker 2: jersey is number nine jersey, and we almost restart this
Speaker 2: debate again around the three half backs, not just the
Speaker 2: starting halfback. But I think once cam Royguard's back, there
Speaker 2: is a debate to be had about the best mix
Speaker 2: of three half backs in the All Blacks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think they'll go TJ as well to start,
Speaker 4: but in my mind, I would go Cortez Rasima on
Speaker 4: the bench. I think he would bring so much more
Speaker 4: off the bench in terms of an impact player. He's
Speaker 4: dynamic with his running game, his support play, his physical
Speaker 4: I just get him in the mix now. He's got
Speaker 4: that combination with Damian McKenzie as well. Who you likely
Speaker 4: to spend the vast majority of the game at ten?
Speaker 4: I think Finlay Chrissie. I just I don't see him
Speaker 4: being that impact player. He's a guy that could start,
Speaker 4: but he's such a conservative option to bring on to
Speaker 4: close out a game.
Speaker 3: He's a great defensive presence.
Speaker 4: He's caught quite good over the ball with turnovers a
Speaker 4: number of times for the Blues this year when he
Speaker 4: came back crucial turnovers on his own line. But if
Speaker 4: you're looking to lift the pace in tempo of the
Speaker 4: match and that last twenty, particularly under the roof in
Speaker 4: Dunedin which caters to that sort of style, Ratima is
Speaker 4: your man. So I want to see them be a
Speaker 4: bit bold there and give him his debut straight away.
Speaker 2: Let's go to ten.
Speaker 3: Damien McKenzie had no arguments here.
Speaker 4: I think Boden Barrett's short of a gallop it's between
Speaker 4: those two, and because of Will Jordan's absence and the
Speaker 4: lack of fullbacks in the team and the squads, I
Speaker 4: think it's reasonably bolted on that it's going to be
Speaker 4: McKenzie and Bear at the back.
Speaker 2: Wings was interesting to me. I think they'll probably end
Speaker 2: up going sever Reese on the left wing, mark Khalia
Speaker 2: on the right. There's other ways you could skin it.
Speaker 2: I think Martley is fairly locked in on the right wing,
Speaker 2: or at least one of the wings. You could put
Speaker 2: them on the left, but I think you could make
Speaker 2: the argument for in Monte Nadau on the right wing
Speaker 2: and moving Mark Khala across to the left. But I
Speaker 2: think for this first test they'll sever Reese on the
Speaker 2: left wing and Mark Klear on the right.
Speaker 4: I think you can, like you say, you can make
Speaker 4: an argument for all of them. They're all in form,
Speaker 4: all finishing well. Sevu, I guess is potentially short of
Speaker 4: a gallop, but I don't know if that really matters
Speaker 4: as much for a wing as it does for for
Speaker 4: a lock loose forward who need that That physical contact.
Speaker 2: Played a bit for Sumner and Christch Club Rugby in
Speaker 2: the last couple.
Speaker 4: Of weeks well, I've just start them now. Look I
Speaker 4: would I would go Mark Tala and Caleb Clark. They
Speaker 4: know each the well, interchange well. But there is a
Speaker 4: question mark about Caleb Clark and his ribs as he fits.
Speaker 4: Not too sure at this point of the week, so
Speaker 4: I think I would never issue with them starting any
Speaker 4: of those wings.
Speaker 3: But I agree Mark to Lea as.
Speaker 2: A lock midfield, Jordi Barrett vice captain at second five.
Speaker 2: Who's your center?
Speaker 4: You keep that combination first Test of the year, Rick starts.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 4: There's an argument Billy Proctor knows Jordi Barrett extremely well,
Speaker 4: played together for two three years now, but I think
Speaker 4: first Test of the year, you've only had ten days
Speaker 4: to prepare. You probably want to ease some of those
Speaker 4: guys in. But it's going to be interesting to see
Speaker 4: how that plays out throughout the year. I think Billy's
Speaker 4: certainly putting a lot of pressure on.
Speaker 2: I could see an argument where they do start Billy
Speaker 2: Proctor this weekend with the Jordi Barrett combination. Ricca, you
Speaker 2: only had a solid season for the Blues, but Billy
Speaker 2: Procter and Jordi Barrat have that super rugby combination. I
Speaker 2: think there's certainly an argument who made that you could
Speaker 2: bring Billy Procter in this early, just such as this
Speaker 2: film has been for the Hurricanes and Super Rugby, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't necessarily rule them out going with that this weekend.
Speaker 2: There would also change the dynamic of how you also
Speaker 2: slicked the bench if you were to bring in Billy
Speaker 2: Procter in the midfield. I think the more likely option
Speaker 2: is Ricou Yowanni, but just wouldn't necessarily surprise me if
Speaker 2: they do go Billy Procter at center this week. Boden
Speaker 2: Barrey mentioned fall back before, so that's the run on
Speaker 2: fifteen sorted it is.
Speaker 4: Let me pose a question to you about Boden. Let's
Speaker 4: cast their heads. When Will Jordan comes back? And it's
Speaker 4: well signposted that he will be fullback. That's where he
Speaker 4: wants to play, That's where Razor wants him to play,
Speaker 4: and after spending much of his All Black career on
Speaker 4: the wing, where he has been exceptional, but that's not
Speaker 4: his chosen position. So will Jordan comes back, Let's assume
Speaker 4: he's fit, He's ready to go come August September for
Speaker 4: the All Black Seas slots in there, where's Boden Barrett's future.
Speaker 4: He's signed for four years for New Zealand Rugby as
Speaker 4: their first five.
Speaker 2: Is it at fullback? Well, I think that's that ten argument.
Speaker 2: It's still live if yes, Mackenzie will like nine per
Speaker 2: cent start this weekend, but I think let's see how
Speaker 2: he goes over these first few tests and it's got.
Speaker 3: A bit to proved. Doesn't think he's only started four
Speaker 3: or five tests at ten.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the jury is still out on
Speaker 2: the ten jersey with Richie Wonger having now departed in
Speaker 2: New Zealand Rugby. Maybe he comes back at a certain
Speaker 2: point and is eligible again, but for now he's not,
Speaker 2: so it's a two horse race between McKenzie and Boden Barrett.
Speaker 2: I think that jewsey is still live. Boden will get
Speaker 2: its chances at ten at some point this year, whether
Speaker 2: it's through injury resp rotation, with Mackenzie sitting out, so
Speaker 2: he'll have a point to prove. He's spoken of his
Speaker 2: desire to play ten again rather than being a fullback,
Speaker 2: so that's part of the conversation as well, that he
Speaker 2: wants to prove himself and I guess reinvent himself a
Speaker 2: little bit again. He was pigeonholed into a fifteen for
Speaker 2: the All Blacks over the last few seasons, didn't get
Speaker 2: a lot of opportunities at ten once they moved him
Speaker 2: back to fall back. So I can certainly see that
Speaker 2: Josy being live right throughout the season and perhaps only
Speaker 2: having a definitive view on it once we get to
Speaker 2: the end of you tour and some of the big
Speaker 2: tests there.
Speaker 4: It's familiar, isn't it In terms of the Richie Muonga
Speaker 4: Boden Barretts interchange that happened for three years. I would
Speaker 4: like to see the All Blacks pick and stick to
Speaker 4: a degree. But if Boden is going to be at ten,
Speaker 4: and I don't think we've seen the best from him
Speaker 4: at ten for a number of years now, we need
Speaker 4: to see him challenge the line regularly, take the ball
Speaker 4: to the line and really engage the defense, because that's
Speaker 4: something I think we've seen fall out of his game
Speaker 4: in recent years. And he will want more than this
Speaker 4: because he is driven and clearly the All Blacks he
Speaker 4: wants to be involved. But there is an argument that
Speaker 4: he's your ideal bench guy. He can come on in
Speaker 4: the the second half or whenever and having surveyed the
Speaker 4: game at ten or fifteen, So so good Mackenzie to
Speaker 4: a degree. But I think that's a prospect that the
Speaker 4: All Blacks will be thinking long and hard about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, And I think the debate won't
Speaker 2: be settled this weekend in DNED and it will take
Speaker 2: some time to figure out where we're going. Is the
Speaker 2: All Blacks with this? Let's look at the bench because
Speaker 2: I think that's also an interesting area for the All
Speaker 2: Blacks this week. Backup hookup the suffer on more most likely?
Speaker 2: Who are your backup props?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Armor, just what a prospect to bring on the way
Speaker 4: that he's played this year. Ball in hands, he plays
Speaker 4: like a loose forwards. His line out throwing is going
Speaker 4: to be tested in this arena. Corey Flynn got a
Speaker 4: bit of work to do as a specialist throwing coach.
Speaker 4: As far as your backup props are concerned, I think
Speaker 4: Fletcher Newell is a lock and offer toing a fussy probably,
Speaker 4: but there's he looked very uncomfortable coming off for the Blues.
Speaker 4: Carried a rib injury for the at least the past
Speaker 4: two weeks, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's not there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, tend to agree on that will be interesting to
Speaker 2: see whether he's cleared to play. Didn't look great coming
Speaker 2: off the Super Rugby final, but he had a very
Speaker 2: good Super Rugby season. I think probably his best things.
Speaker 2: Only got one Test try, scored six or seven Super
Speaker 2: Ragby tries this year, so it might be a tryer're
Speaker 2: in bonanza once off I gets in.
Speaker 3: The path this year, take it to the bank.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The rest of the forwards makeup on the bench
Speaker 2: is interesting as well. So Tweet and Barrett obviously start
Speaker 2: so that it would leave a bench spots for two
Speaker 2: po VII.
Speaker 4: Yep, and my takers summer penny fee now as your
Speaker 4: bench cover where you're probably going Ethan black Ady, Yeah,
Speaker 4: so I think we're interchangeable there.
Speaker 2: Half back you were going right, I was going Christy yep.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 2: Back up backs on the bench is interesting for me
Speaker 2: because I mean I would still start Rico you wony,
Speaker 2: but I was just for the sake of the agment
Speaker 2: suggestingly proped it. But I think if you're selecting a
Speaker 2: bench Stephen Petterfeta gets one spot, I think the other
Speaker 2: one is quite interesting to go. Where do you go
Speaker 2: specialist midfield and someone like Leonnet Brown, would you debut
Speaker 2: Procter off the bench? Would you go with a winger
Speaker 2: like a em Monti nadowa Caleb Clark. That one, I
Speaker 2: think is quite an interesting selection from an all Blacks perspective.
Speaker 4: I think Lenna Brown's the obvious guy because he covers ten, sorry,
Speaker 4: twelve and.
Speaker 3: Thirteen, and a bench could do the wing as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Rico, if providing he's starting, could easily shift
Speaker 4: out to the wing. So there's all bases covered there.
Speaker 4: It is rare to put a specialist wing on the
Speaker 4: bench in morning. Nadawa does have flexibility in that he
Speaker 4: can play fullback, but it would be a risk at
Speaker 4: test level, so I think and Lena Brown definitely the
Speaker 4: inside running for that position.
Speaker 2: All right, there's you're twenty three there. It is subjects
Speaker 2: to being announced on spread the world.
Speaker 3: Put it out.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about England in their threats this weekend, because
Speaker 2: they've got a game under the belt that played Japan
Speaker 2: One comfortably a couple of weeks ago. Seems like Steve
Speaker 2: Borthwick is now adding elements to this English team that
Speaker 2: maybe we hadn't seen previously. You know, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of excitement around the way that you know, as you
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, Ben Earl's playing and the balloty that he
Speaker 2: can switch into midfield. But later on in matches. What
Speaker 2: do we expect from England this week?
Speaker 4: I think England are definitely involving they There was a
Speaker 4: definitive shift with the English. Well go back to the
Speaker 4: World Cup. Bothwick is not in the saddle very long.
Speaker 4: They lose to Fiji prior to the World Cup at Twickenham,
Speaker 4: so things are looking very very grim. Everyrun's wants both
Speaker 4: work out before he's even started. The World Cup is
Speaker 4: very traditional England's conservative, pragmatic. You know ten man rugby
Speaker 4: basically George Ford's kicking drop kicks and they lose the
Speaker 4: World Cup semi final by one point to the box.
Speaker 4: So I think they did exceptionally well to get to
Speaker 4: that point, but it was very traditional England. They start
Speaker 4: the sixth Nations, introduced a few new caps. They lose
Speaker 4: to Scotland and Edinburgh and post that game from all
Speaker 4: the material of Red's and talked to some of the
Speaker 4: English journos. The players came together, senior players and had
Speaker 4: a real push to change the game plan and because
Speaker 4: it wasn't working a couple of weeks time, they beat
Speaker 4: Ireland at Twickenham and then lose away to France narrowly
Speaker 4: at the end of the Six Nations. So the definitive
Speaker 4: shift and they get results with it. And with Marcus
Speaker 4: Smith coming in at ten, he's a very dynamic playmaker,
Speaker 4: small man but quick exceptional. They brought in a couple
Speaker 4: of twenty one year old prospects Emmanuel on the wing,
Speaker 4: I think Chandler at Cunningham Smith Cunningham Smith at blindside,
Speaker 4: who actually was raised in Hamilton. So they've ejected a
Speaker 4: bit of youth and i think really embraced a lot
Speaker 4: more attacking style. Their back line is not big either,
Speaker 4: so they're not going to run over the top of you.
Speaker 4: That's not their style. They're going to have to use
Speaker 4: the ball and look to be a bit creative. So
Speaker 4: the only question is when the pressure comes on, do
Speaker 4: their revert to type. But their blueprint I think was
Speaker 4: the way they played against Ireland at Twickenham. That's what
Speaker 4: they need to aspire to and that's where they're trying
Speaker 4: to go.
Speaker 2: And then the East, the All Blacks game plan. We
Speaker 2: haven't seen as yet. But do you expect it to
Speaker 2: be similar to what Scott Robinson rolled out at the Crusaders.
Speaker 4: I do, And you know, the big question about that
Speaker 4: is I'm interested in your take on this, but from
Speaker 4: my perspective is actually quite conservative. It was very four
Speaker 4: set piece dominated. He's a big advocate for kicking and
Speaker 4: just nailing your attacking chances. Some real focus on set
Speaker 4: piece strikes and those sorts of things. But it's not
Speaker 4: expensive mus not throw the ball around offload with gay abandon.
Speaker 4: It's very much play what's in front of you. Do
Speaker 4: the basics, well, minimal errors, apply pressure, take your points
Speaker 4: when they're on offer. And I don't know if that
Speaker 4: there is a real perception of that of Razor's style.
Speaker 3: What's your read?
Speaker 2: No, No, it's definitely it. And putting the squeeze on the
Speaker 2: teams is what we've seen the Crusaders do and put
Speaker 2: the pressure back on the opposition for a number of years.
Speaker 2: You think about some of those wins they got against
Speaker 2: the Blues and round robin play, but also the final
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two the Chiefs last year, it was
Speaker 2: almost like, well, you want to play this game plan,
Speaker 2: but we're going to squeeze you and not lay you
Speaker 2: many opportunities to do so, so you really got to
Speaker 2: take them. And when you don't, that's when the pressure
Speaker 2: comes on and you make mistakes. So it's not expansive.
Speaker 2: But we did see the Crusaders, you know, scored a
Speaker 2: lot of tries through strike plays, will Jordan sev Reeks
Speaker 2: a lot of those movements, midfield, Jack Goodhue when he
Speaker 2: was there, they scored through that, and Richie Wonger deff
Speaker 2: moved through the line, soft hair and passing through the line.
Speaker 2: But that was it was very built on that full platform,
Speaker 2: wasn't it that the Crusaders were able to get And
Speaker 2: once they were into the twenty two that backed themselves
Speaker 2: to school. Whether it was a line out drive or
Speaker 2: whether it was a set move or just pressure, pressure, pressure,
Speaker 2: they converted more often than not. And that, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: not a throw the ball around team. Mean, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: expect that to see that in the All Blacks.
Speaker 4: When the pressure was really on the Crusaders, they went
Speaker 4: back to their line out more. They're scrum they'd scrum
Speaker 4: for penalties, they'd kick for territory. It's that squeeze game
Speaker 4: that you talk about and I think people think perceive
Speaker 4: that because you had this magic, dynamic playmaker and Richie Muwanga,
Speaker 4: that they have this perception that the Crusaders were very expensive,
Speaker 4: when that was the truth is actually the total opposite.
Speaker 2: I think that's similar to what we'll see certainly starting
Speaker 2: this weekend is the All Black season gets underway.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what I'm intrigued to see is what specials do
Speaker 4: they come up with the line out at the set piece,
Speaker 4: because you've got Robertson's going to have a focus on those.
Speaker 4: You've got Jason Holland there who had some pretty tasty
Speaker 4: strike moves with the Hurricanes. They were the best attacking
Speaker 4: team in Super rugby for a number of years, so
Speaker 4: these guys have very specialist areas. And then on defense
Speaker 4: with Scott Hansen, they should be very hard to break down.
Speaker 3: So they've got all bases covered.
Speaker 4: But it's going to be very interesting to see from
Speaker 4: my perspective where those little trick plays come.
Speaker 2: Indeed, can't wait Saturday night, seven o five Love on
Speaker 2: News talk Zbig Gold, Sport on iHeartRadio from for South
Speaker 2: Bar Stadium, indonned Let's take quick break, come back with
Speaker 2: more after this on Rugby Direct.
Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 5: Rugby Direct, Coward Badies Talks.
Speaker 2: Be You're back with Rugby Direct. Time now for our
Speaker 2: final four. A social mentioned Steve Bull with England coach
Speaker 2: to come as well. Liam, you caught up with them
Speaker 2: last week, but into our final four. How many tests
Speaker 2: will the All Blacks win in this first year under
Speaker 2: Scott Robertson. They're playing fourteen? How many do they get?
Speaker 3: Twelve?
Speaker 4: I think they definitely lose two, possibly three, two tests
Speaker 4: in South Africa. I think if you come away from
Speaker 4: that we're one on one. That's satisfactory. And then you
Speaker 4: go on the end of your tour and you've got
Speaker 4: Island away, France away, England away. That's a bloody tough stretch.
Speaker 4: I would expect them to sweep England at home based
Speaker 4: on history, and you shouldn't be losing to the Wallabies
Speaker 4: in the current climate. No, So I think twelve is
Speaker 4: about what do you reckon? I reckon they take eleven? Yeah,
Speaker 4: the Sabrigan two looms large if they split, that's you said,
Speaker 4: a good result int of your tour is very very tricky.
Speaker 4: We've got Argentina at home for two tests, and the
Speaker 4: rugby champion ship of Fiji and San Diego. But yet
Speaker 4: those tests, that three week block in the end of
Speaker 4: the year tour England then Ireland then France is very
Speaker 4: very tough to back up each week is very very difficult.
Speaker 4: So that's going to be a tricky test. Let me
Speaker 4: put this to you before we move on. Sure the
Speaker 4: odds are out for the first Test. The All Blacks
Speaker 4: are a dollar fifteen, England five dollars and the point
Speaker 4: spread is dropped slightly to thirteen and a half.
Speaker 3: Do you think that's accurate.
Speaker 2: I'm surprised England at five dollars to win this first
Speaker 2: Test match. Now probably similar to you. I think the
Speaker 2: All Blacks will get up for both of these two tests.
Speaker 2: But England's had a game under their belt. They've had
Speaker 2: six nations earlier in the year, they know their game plan.
Speaker 2: The All Blacks have had ten days to do so.
Speaker 2: So quite surprised that England is so far out for
Speaker 2: this opening test of the year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I expected it to be a bit closer.
Speaker 4: I guess there's there's a lot of history here. England
Speaker 4: have lost seven consecutive in New Zealand since two thousand
Speaker 4: and three, their last last factory here, So and there's
Speaker 4: context in that Northern teams traditionally struggle at this time
Speaker 4: of year coming south.
Speaker 2: It's been a long season, World Cup and various other things.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right, and that's been the case throughout history.
Speaker 4: The French sen second string teams, you know, the English
Speaker 4: last summer out here they were swept three nil. So
Speaker 4: it is a massive weight of history. The other thing
Speaker 4: to that is they haven't actually played that much I
Speaker 4: think maybe three times since twenty fourteen, so there's been
Speaker 4: a real dearth of competition between these nations. So that's
Speaker 4: probably why there's also so much anticipation for it.
Speaker 2: Indeed, question number two. The Mold All Blacks claimed a
Speaker 2: solid win over a Japan fifteen or selection. What's it
Speaker 2: out to you, I'm going to get first lit one.
Speaker 2: Cameron saw For had an absolutely storming game for the
Speaker 2: MOULDI All Blacks everything he's been through this year, but
Speaker 2: he was whole bag of tricks on the weekend. Both
Speaker 2: sides of the ball showed as attacking skills, lovely pass
Speaker 2: to lay on much of the tries. Now we talked
Speaker 2: a bit earlier about that lock line side covert. He's
Speaker 2: a player that can do both and if he can
Speaker 2: remain not word fully healthy, get some more game time
Speaker 2: under his belt. For Shimi still with North Harbor, he's
Speaker 2: a player that I could potentially see him being an
Speaker 2: All Black either this year or next, just if he
Speaker 2: can get some more consistent game time under his belt,
Speaker 2: because I think he's got that bag of tricks and
Speaker 2: the ability to do it. And we saw that come
Speaker 2: on the weekend, so he stood out for me in
Speaker 2: that game.
Speaker 3: He's got a big future, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: And prior to his cancer, he was very front and
Speaker 4: center in my mind for that prototype of what you
Speaker 4: want for a six and you look ahead to next
Speaker 4: year for the Blues with a kid Iwana moving on
Speaker 4: that position, looks like that has to step into for
Speaker 4: me for the multi All Blacks. We talked about last
Speaker 4: week one of the voids and the All Blacks being
Speaker 4: a powerful number twelve, and one guy I don't think
Speaker 4: we did mention was Quinte Pie and he's the obvious
Speaker 4: guy and he really stood up for me and the
Speaker 4: way he carried the ball, his work over the ball
Speaker 4: at the breakdown, and I was very surprised he didn't
Speaker 4: start the back end of the year for the Chiefs.
Speaker 4: I couldn't really work that out, but he is a
Speaker 4: guy that's in that mold of that big physical twelve
Speaker 4: that the All Blacks will be looking at.
Speaker 2: He's quite bizarre. He sort of faded out of that Chiefs.
Speaker 2: He was on the bench, moved out of there. They
Speaker 2: preferred Daniel Rohna in midfield for it for a period
Speaker 2: of time, who made some appearance in the wing. It
Speaker 2: just yeah, hopefully and can get some game time and
Speaker 2: respellt for what I'd do and perhaps push for that
Speaker 2: end of your tour or injury cover double barreled three
Speaker 2: and four. First part of this topic three. What other
Speaker 2: series is the most intriguing for the July window? And
Speaker 2: Topic four picked the series scores from. Let's say that
Speaker 2: the three Sansar Nations playing the three up up north.
Speaker 4: What's got to be the box and the Irish, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of a lot of history there, but
Speaker 4: a bit of banter. But a spikee and two of
Speaker 4: the best teams in the world going here to heads
Speaker 4: Russy you know, already firing up on Twitter and painting
Speaker 4: the scene for for Loftus the Irish armissing jameson Gibson Park.
Speaker 4: I think that's a big out for them. But I
Speaker 4: think the box take that series two to one too serious.
Speaker 4: I'm going to say two nil.
Speaker 2: I'm actually slightly more intrigued by Australia Wales just for
Speaker 2: the fact that I'm intrigued to see how Joe Schmidt
Speaker 2: goes at the helm of the Wallabies, and you know what,
Speaker 2: I think that's spot that series one.
Speaker 6: All.
Speaker 4: I haven't had a lot of time have they. Joe
Speaker 4: smit and Mike cron Well, they probably gonna play the
Speaker 4: first Test anyway. No, personally, I don't know how much
Speaker 4: of a massive loss that is. He beels a guy
Speaker 4: that's come out for the Western four. He's an experienced
Speaker 4: Head's nice to have, but I think it's time to
Speaker 4: move on. To a degree, Wales are at a really
Speaker 4: low ebb.
Speaker 3: They were.
Speaker 4: You know, Gatland's starting another rebuild which gives them a
Speaker 4: bit of a buffer to a degree. But yeah, it
Speaker 4: is a very intriguing series. Two teams that need to move,
Speaker 4: need to rise. I'm going to tip the Wallabies to
Speaker 4: win that too, nil.
Speaker 2: I'm going to pick one all for that and I'm
Speaker 2: going to go one all in the other one a
Speaker 2: lot of drawers. And for England New zeal we picked
Speaker 2: it to nil to New Zealand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 4: I think England could be better in the second test
Speaker 4: than the first. I think the all Blacks will come
Speaker 4: out of the blocks reasonably well and then might be
Speaker 4: a little bit beat up for the second.
Speaker 2: All right, that'll do us for a Rugby Direct. But
Speaker 2: first before we go. You caught up with England rugby
Speaker 2: coach Steve Borthwick the other day around Auckland as they
Speaker 2: built into this first test. Good to have him on
Speaker 2: the pod and she hears some of his thoughts.
Speaker 4: Yeah, nice thing English to go out and link lend
Speaker 4: a hand at Michael Jones' food bank and Evan Dale
Speaker 4: and have the chance to catch up with Steve. So
Speaker 4: great to have England here and can't wait for that
Speaker 4: first test.
Speaker 2: Bring it on. Here's Steve Borthwick on Rugby Direct.
Speaker 4: Steve both work. Thanks for making some time. Start with
Speaker 4: a bit of history. I guess this teen years since
Speaker 4: since England we're in New Zealand.
Speaker 6: Is it a change? I guess that's been that long.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it does feel like having so that
Speaker 7: we've got a number of players who are on the
Speaker 7: twenty seventeen British and Irish lanes to to New Zealand
Speaker 7: an incredible experience now, and they've certainly been sharing their
Speaker 7: experiences with the younger members of the squad. We've got
Speaker 7: a young squad that's developing and transitioning since the.
Speaker 5: End of the Rubbery World Cup, and you're supported by.
Speaker 7: Having this group of experienced players that are really leading
Speaker 7: in guiding and mentor in the younger players.
Speaker 4: Take you back a bit further to two thousand and three.
Speaker 4: That's the last timing on one here and you're on
Speaker 4: the bench for that game one point victory, hanging down
Speaker 4: to thirteen minute at one point. What are your sort
Speaker 4: of recollections of that game.
Speaker 7: I remember the closest game, the tightness of the game,
Speaker 7: the fine margins, the attritional nature of it. And I
Speaker 7: think that's the way New Zealand. New Zealand always have
Speaker 7: this strong he was skillful, speed power, and certainly to
Speaker 7: be successful you've got to have a team that's really
Speaker 7: very fit, tactically, really smart and mentally very strong. And
Speaker 7: over that period of time that Clive built that team
Speaker 7: over that number of years.
Speaker 5: They were those things.
Speaker 7: They were physical, film, they were tactically, very smart, mentally restaurant,
Speaker 7: and you need to be those things against playing against New.
Speaker 4: Zealand twenty one years since that victory as it's something
Speaker 4: you put on the wall and drawn and talk to
Speaker 4: the players about your experience and the spy towards.
Speaker 7: I guess I think we're very focused on the future
Speaker 7: where we want to go as a team.
Speaker 5: We're aware of the history.
Speaker 7: I think you know that's but we're also really looking
Speaker 7: about where we want to develop as a team. We
Speaker 7: know coming to play New Zealand in New Zealand it
Speaker 7: is probably the ultimate challenge this team. It's New Zealand team,
Speaker 7: so it's such a strong team. Every New Zealand team
Speaker 7: is so strong, so we know it's an InCred challenge.
Speaker 7: This young squad we've got, they get excited by challenges
Speaker 7: and they want to go and play against the best.
Speaker 7: And I think when you look at this New Zealand squad,
Speaker 7: that New Zealand coaching team, you see the talent they
Speaker 7: have and so it's going to be a great challenge
Speaker 7: for us and we'll looking forward to.
Speaker 4: It we're come forward to more recent history and a
Speaker 4: lot of the squad. It's actually hits against your blecks
Speaker 4: when you go back to twenty nineteen World Cup and
Speaker 4: there was a draw, a twicking in twenty twenty two
Speaker 4: in the line series as well.
Speaker 6: Does it help having that success, I think the less.
Speaker 7: We've got a group of senior players lived by our
Speaker 7: captain Jeremy George, who we certainly used to talk about
Speaker 7: the experiences, but that they have had in the Test
Speaker 7: arena and passed those experiences onto the younger players. Were
Speaker 7: rules clear as this is a new New Zealand. It's
Speaker 7: been a change to the new Zealand coaching team. They
Speaker 7: are a completely new coaching team, a new captains, this
Speaker 7: is a this is a this is a different challenge
Speaker 7: and we are a different team now as well. So
Speaker 7: I think that bodes for a really exciting first Test
Speaker 7: down in Duneda.
Speaker 4: Exciting when you talk about that evolution like this, from
Speaker 4: what I can gather, it's happened quite recent le from
Speaker 4: and post the loss to Scotland and the Six Nations.
Speaker 6: It was a definitive change and.
Speaker 4: The approached the style and it seems to have been
Speaker 4: a shift since then, does it feeling accurate?
Speaker 5: I think the.
Speaker 7: Start of Six Nations was a new squad for us,
Speaker 7: and in our first game we had five new Caps
Speaker 7: in that first game. It takes time to bring a
Speaker 7: team together, It takes time to bed players in, it
Speaker 7: takes time to get people used to how we want
Speaker 7: to play.
Speaker 5: So we were very clear that we felt.
Speaker 7: That the World Cup we'd built some foundations and in
Speaker 7: a pretty short space of time we're the coaching team.
Speaker 5: The coaching team came.
Speaker 7: Together at the start of the World Cup training camp,
Speaker 7: and then we added Felix Jones as a coach at
Speaker 7: the start of the Six Nations.
Speaker 5: This is smilar to evolving and growing.
Speaker 7: It takes time to understand all the systems. So through
Speaker 7: the Six Nations that was us developing it and we
Speaker 7: gradually saw improved which was important. And then the teams
Speaker 7: come back together for that test against Japan just about
Speaker 7: ten days ago. We came back together properly and we're
Speaker 7: again put things together pretty quickly too ready to play.
Speaker 5: Instruman and now we're looking forward to being here in
Speaker 5: New Zealand.
Speaker 4: Stylistically, there has been a shift from I guess traditional
Speaker 4: maybe conservatism to teching minded and you get a couple
Speaker 4: of twenty one year old prospects in the Chanler and.
Speaker 7: Banny failed though, So yeah, we have some guys that
Speaker 7: come into the Marcus Smith ran in the attack, and
Speaker 7: you mentioned Felix Joiners as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So just in terms of stylistically, has it been a
Speaker 4: conscious shift in the way you're playing.
Speaker 7: I think that because you have to look at the context,
Speaker 7: and the context is that we came together as a coast,
Speaker 7: so it's such a short space before the World Cup.
Speaker 7: What you're gonna do is you go put together the
Speaker 7: base of the game to compete at the World Cup,
Speaker 7: which is exactly what we did and.
Speaker 5: As every would say, to do that first.
Speaker 7: So you've got to put those foundation rocks and places,
Speaker 7: and the attack always takes the longest to develop. Part
Speaker 7: of that becomes because sole relationship based cohesion about the
Speaker 7: cohesion you have as players. So what we've done is
Speaker 7: ensure that we've actually tried to build that and it's
Speaker 7: always been the plan to build on the attack.
Speaker 5: I think we've got some I think we've got some
Speaker 5: exciting young players, many of whom are very new to
Speaker 5: the test.
Speaker 7: Arena, very new to playing for England and said that
Speaker 7: they're all full of desire to do well and then
Speaker 7: they're exciting talents.
Speaker 6: We have some file stones Evis and what he's brought.
Speaker 4: But what about Andrew Strawbridge. I guess news ongers know
Speaker 4: him well. He is involved with the Ord Decks and
Speaker 4: but what have you liked about him? What's what he's
Speaker 4: what is he brought to your set?
Speaker 7: And the Straws and some of you I've spoken to
Speaker 7: for many years and watch rugby all around the world and.
Speaker 5: When you see teams doing good things, you.
Speaker 7: Want to know who's been coaching at who's help right
Speaker 7: and you learn about the chiefs and through a period
Speaker 7: they were And then I got connected with Straws many
Speaker 7: years ago and catching contact with somebody I've I've learned
Speaker 7: a lot from over a number of years. And then
Speaker 7: the opportunity came for him for us to work together,
Speaker 7: and he came over in the Six Nations for a
Speaker 7: few weeks.
Speaker 5: Help us develop and helped us build our game.
Speaker 7: And then I'm really fortunate that he's decided to join
Speaker 7: us on a more permanent basis and he's a great
Speaker 7: coach and a fantastic personality around.
Speaker 4: The squad as a trump card would agree when you
Speaker 4: play the or bakes and a guy that knows them well.
Speaker 7: I think nowadays what happens is everybody as you know,
Speaker 7: there no level of analysystem goes on.
Speaker 5: Everybody knows each other pretty well.
Speaker 7: What I've found with this group, this coach, this young
Speaker 7: group we have now is the one to focus very
Speaker 7: much on themselves, very much up on what we've got
Speaker 7: to do to grow and what Straws.
Speaker 5: Does as such an excellent.
Speaker 7: Coach, how he works one on one with people. He's
Speaker 7: got a brilliant manner to find a little bit more
Speaker 7: out of each player. So that's what he's focused on
Speaker 7: a very much focusing on the individual skills and how
Speaker 7: we get.
Speaker 5: A little bit more out of each each player.
Speaker 4: A touch on your bleaks and how much things have changed.
Speaker 4: It's actually the biggest change in twenty years in terms
Speaker 4: of management, new.
Speaker 6: Coach, new captain and that we've experienced post World campin.
Speaker 4: Has left as.
Speaker 6: Possibly a good time to play them.
Speaker 7: I'll say, I think there's no bigger challenge in rugby
Speaker 7: than playing New Zealand. In New Zealand they are You've
Speaker 7: got a coaching team there by Scott Robinson, who such
Speaker 7: a great record himself coaching throughout his coaching career. Yes,
Speaker 7: that some players aren't there from a cup with there's
Speaker 7: a little law of experience in that squad. And this
Speaker 7: was a squad that on lost the World Cup by point,
Speaker 7: so we know these are This is.
Speaker 5: An incredibly.
Speaker 7: It's an incredible New Zealand squad. They have got pace
Speaker 7: and power in their team. We've also been watching the
Speaker 7: Super Rugby closely. We've seen how well the New Zealand
Speaker 7: teams have done, you know obviously especially the Blues. So
Speaker 7: we know this is going to be a great challenge.
Speaker 7: But I'll go back to where I said is we're
Speaker 7: a young squad. We want to be challenged.
Speaker 4: But what do you expect, You know, your first test
Speaker 4: and theneven and of the Earth's speaking to be hard
Speaker 4: and fast and it's been to.
Speaker 7: So I remember in twenty seventeen the Bridge and Irish lines,
Speaker 7: to remember the noise in the atmosphere it was, it
Speaker 7: was phenomenal. And the players talked about drafts, about the
Speaker 7: communication on the field. Who are expecting a brilliant atmosphere there.
Speaker 7: Everyone has speak to talks about the surface being a
Speaker 7: fast surface, so expecting the ball to be moving the
Speaker 7: play univers and also with the roof I'm told about
Speaker 7: as can the ball can be a bit greasy at times,
Speaker 7: so it can lead to transitions, it can lead to turnovers.
Speaker 7: So how quickly you react to those opportunities of beating
Speaker 7: a tackle, beating defense is it's going to be really important.
Speaker 4: Just in terms of your squad, I think that you
Speaker 4: again largely stick with the same thing from Japan for
Speaker 4: the oublicks with a view to cohesion. Is it something
Speaker 4: that's important to build those combinations, to take stipping stones
Speaker 4: and and give have faith in them and relates.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I think I think we've got a really
Speaker 7: good squad. It's a young squad, it's a really good squad.
Speaker 7: I fully enjoy working with them. I think that given
Speaker 7: the preparations time the England team has, which is not
Speaker 7: very much, I think that it's important to keep building
Speaker 7: a level of cohesion amongst the squad. So this squad,
Speaker 7: the changes we made from the remember of the Six
Speaker 7: Nations to where we are now as as minimal as
Speaker 7: could be and as discussed about the way.
Speaker 5: We we we play.
Speaker 7: We want to transition, evolve, gradually. The same thing around
Speaker 7: our squad. It's transition, evolve gradually so we can keep
Speaker 7: cohesion there.
Speaker 6: Just a couple of things finish.
Speaker 4: How much of a chef do you think he made
Speaker 4: towards the becking of the Six Nations? Their performance against Ireland,
Speaker 4: very close against France, the game against Japan. I'm sure
Speaker 4: there's things you want to work on, but in terms
Speaker 4: of progression and in.
Speaker 7: Chefs, I think I think the team squad are growing.
Speaker 5: We've got a long way to go, but I feel
Speaker 5: that the team is growing.
Speaker 7: When you look at that the start of the six
Speaker 7: as any to a tail, you want your players available,
Speaker 7: they want to fit, and the start of Six Nations,
Speaker 7: we have five new players for New Caps in the
Speaker 7: first twenty match day twenty three. I hadn't anticipated doing that,
Speaker 7: but I think all five of those guys are going
Speaker 7: to be great and good players in the future. Gradually
Speaker 7: through the Six Nations, we've.
Speaker 5: Had players come back to fitness.
Speaker 7: We are a number of players now run on this
Speaker 7: trip for a few different reasons, a couple of injuries.
Speaker 5: But one of the things that's.
Speaker 7: Struggling here is the excitement, energy and intensity of these players.
Speaker 7: They've been going now for as soon as guys have.
Speaker 5: Been going for more than twelve boys and for every day.
Speaker 7: The intensity they bring to training just keeps.
Speaker 5: It just keeps driving forward.
Speaker 7: And so as said, I think it's a great squad
Speaker 7: led by a very good captain in Jamie George, and
Speaker 7: we're going in the toughest place to play rugby.
Speaker 6: Let's see startup on there.
Speaker 4: Get a bit story, wouln't that it takes to take Yeah,
Speaker 4: and I'm.
Speaker 5: Going to take a step this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, just to wrap up, I guess we've talked about history.
Speaker 6: We talked about haharded as to play in the island
Speaker 6: and his zealand. What what does a successful tour look like?
Speaker 5: Well, I think that cool.
Speaker 7: We always go on to the pitch and putting ourselves
Speaker 7: in a position to win the game. We know what
Speaker 7: more a challenge that is against these guns and our
Speaker 7: sense and excitement from the players.
Speaker 5: We have enormous respectful rugby in this country.
Speaker 7: It struck me as you travel just again, I saw
Speaker 7: her in twenty seventeen coming around the country. The British
Speaker 7: and Irish lions, how passionate the supporters are. However, we
Speaker 7: loved rugby in this country and I think our players
Speaker 7: really enjoying being here. I think we've we've experienced a
Speaker 7: real incredible welcome from the New Zealand public since we've arrived.
Speaker 7: We expect that to be a little bit different a
Speaker 7: week on Saturday, So for us, this experience is in
Speaker 7: valuable for us in our development and we look forward
Speaker 7: to next Saturday night.
Speaker 2: We will see you next week as the t season
Speaker 2: gets underwear. Thanks to Excess Solutions elevating you and your
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Speaker 2: Last and Vas English. See next week on right Direct.
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