Speaker 1: Curta and welcome to this episode of Shared Lunch, where
Speaker 1: we look at the importance of having a will, but
Speaker 1: also how you might leave a little something to your
Speaker 1: favorite charity. It's Will's Week and alterra, so a good
Speaker 1: time for investors to be reminded of this Called brook Ahoe.
Speaker 1: I'm Brook Roberts, one of the co founders in Coco's
Speaker 1: of Chase's, and I'm joined by Katherine Simpson, who is
Speaker 1: a will's expert from public trust.
Speaker 2: Investing involves risk you might lose the money you start with.
Speaker 2: We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. We also
Speaker 2: recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. Everything
Speaker 2: you're about to see and hear is current at the
Speaker 2: time of recording.
Speaker 3: Welcome Katherine, Kyona, Thanks for having.
Speaker 1: Me so, Katherine. The theme of Will's Week twenty twenty
Speaker 1: four is charitable giving. But before we dove into what
Speaker 1: that entails, let's put into context why having a will
Speaker 1: is so important.
Speaker 4: Look, I could talk on this topic for hours. For me,
Speaker 4: the will is the greatest gift that you can leave
Speaker 4: your family in terms of certainty about what you want
Speaker 4: to happen once.
Speaker 3: You pass away.
Speaker 4: So we encourage every New Zealander over the age of eighteen,
Speaker 4: particularly those who've got more than fifteen thousand dollars in assets,
Speaker 4: whether that be in your chesy's account and your kiwisaver,
Speaker 4: whether that be in a car or some pennies that
Speaker 4: you've got saved up in the bank account, to start
Speaker 4: thinking about how do you want to leave your legacy
Speaker 4: or your things to the people or the.
Speaker 3: Organizations you care about.
Speaker 4: So wills are a great way to make sure it's
Speaker 4: all written down, it's super clear. Once you're gone, nobody's
Speaker 4: squabbling or disagreeing over what they think you might have wanted.
Speaker 1: And I understand about forty eight percent of us here
Speaker 1: in Altio I have a will. Is that enough? And
Speaker 1: how does that compare internationally?
Speaker 4: We would love everybody to have a will, every adult
Speaker 4: New Zealander to have a will. It's really tricky to
Speaker 4: compare internationally because.
Speaker 3: Of the size of our population.
Speaker 4: But what we understand is that it is a conversation
Speaker 4: that's tricky across the world.
Speaker 3: Talking about money.
Speaker 4: Death in the future isn't something that people necessarily easily
Speaker 4: jump into.
Speaker 3: And so I think we've.
Speaker 4: Got a really great role we can play in leading
Speaker 4: in the world around our everyone in New Zealand having
Speaker 4: a will and what a cool thing we could say
Speaker 4: that we were better than our Aussie counterparts at.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned, you know, one of the barriers is
Speaker 1: that kind of taboo feeling when it's you're talking about
Speaker 1: you know, death or or you know, planning for that.
Speaker 1: But what are some of the other barriers you think
Speaker 1: at the reason why people not enough? For people when
Speaker 1: outsid I have a will.
Speaker 4: You look, we hear a good few reasons why people say, oh,
Speaker 4: maybe just not yet.
Speaker 3: One of the things is I'm too young.
Speaker 4: People aren't necessarily feeling like they need to plan ahead.
Speaker 3: I know that I certainly have.
Speaker 4: Got a little bit of invincibility streak, and so I
Speaker 4: think one of the common myths is, you know, I
Speaker 4: need to be nearing the end of my life or
Speaker 4: about to retire. But really, if you think about their
Speaker 4: fifteen thousand dollars three shold, which the reason that threshold
Speaker 4: is important is that's when you need to get permission
Speaker 4: from the court to administer that will, so that is
Speaker 4: basically to follow out the instructions of that will.
Speaker 3: A lot of young.
Speaker 4: People are over that threshold pretty.
Speaker 3: Early on in life.
Speaker 4: One of the other myths is I need to be
Speaker 4: rich and have a lot of stuff to have a will,
Speaker 4: and again that's absolutely not true. We hear a lot
Speaker 4: from people as well that they think, ah, don't worry
Speaker 4: about it. You know my spouse, parents, siblings, children, they'll
Speaker 4: and hear it everything next of ken, no worries. But actually,
Speaker 4: something that a lot of people don't know is that
Speaker 4: if you die without a will, there's an administration act
Speaker 4: that sets it out in a formula. And so you
Speaker 4: might think that actually everything would go to your children equally,
Speaker 4: but maybe you've also got a spouse or a partner
Speaker 4: and they may be relatively new in your life and
Speaker 4: they may also stand to inherit something. So getting a
Speaker 4: will is kind of a great way to just, you know,
Speaker 4: cut through black and white what is it that you wanted,
Speaker 4: and be really clear on that.
Speaker 1: So can you just elaborate on that a bit more
Speaker 1: and talk about if you don't have a will, what
Speaker 1: happens with your assets.
Speaker 4: So if you've got over fifteen thousand dollars and you
Speaker 4: die without a will, it's what they call dying intestate,
Speaker 4: which essentially means that someone needs to apply to administer
Speaker 4: your will, and the person who administers your will is
Speaker 4: basically the person that collects all of those assets, maybe
Speaker 4: cashes in some things, might sell property on your behalf,
Speaker 4: and then ultimately distributes it according to that.
Speaker 3: Formula that I talked about.
Speaker 4: And you have to apply to the family court through
Speaker 4: what we call a kind of probate application process in
Speaker 4: order to have the rights to do that. So if
Speaker 4: you don't have a will, it can cost you a
Speaker 4: few thousand more dollars in terms that process and navigating
Speaker 4: those legal fees. It also can be quite stressful because
Speaker 4: what you think that person might have wanted, what that
Speaker 4: person actually wanted, and what that formula set out in
Speaker 4: the Administration Act say should happen could all be.
Speaker 3: Very different things.
Speaker 4: And often at public Trust we step in where families
Speaker 4: might not necessarily agree or there's a little bit of conflict,
Speaker 4: and we help to work through that and find the
Speaker 4: best outcome and try and make sure that everybody can
Speaker 4: grieve and celebrate their loved one as well as work
Speaker 4: through the administration and the life had been.
Speaker 3: That comes with that.
Speaker 1: So the importance of having a will is making sure
Speaker 1: that you get to leave the legacy you want to
Speaker 1: leave behind to those that you ultimately want to be
Speaker 1: able to inherit that, and without that, there's no kind
Speaker 1: of control over that, and you'll ultimately create potentially more
Speaker 1: of a hard situation for those left to have to
Speaker 1: deal with themarole and the courts and all that sort
Speaker 1: of jazz.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's a really beautiful gift that you can give
Speaker 4: to people, to be really clear, and I think it's
Speaker 4: one of the best gifts that you can leave when
Speaker 4: you're no longer here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I had a family member head overseas recently, and
Speaker 1: before they left, they got their will all set up
Speaker 1: and they were just just in case, but they also
Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure that there was just something
Speaker 1: that was giving them peace of mind in terms of
Speaker 1: how they wanted their assets distributed if something to will's happened,
Speaker 1: but let's hope it doesn't. So but I also just
Speaker 1: recently understood too that despite these kind of tougher economic
Speaker 1: times at the moment that wills are kind of trending
Speaker 1: up and they're leaving. Legacy can tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit about that and what you think is behind it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So we have definitely seen a kind of steady
Speaker 4: increase in people writing wills, which we're ecstatic about.
Speaker 3: It's it is steady, though.
Speaker 4: It's probably not the dramatic increase that we'd like to
Speaker 4: see and closer to that one hundred percent mark of
Speaker 4: everyone having a will. What I think is driving it
Speaker 4: though a lot of it has been post COVID, We've
Speaker 4: definitely noticed that people had different reflections when they were
Speaker 4: stuck in their bubble thinking about life and plans and
Speaker 4: what they wanted to do. There's been an increase in
Speaker 4: people heading overseas as well to travel now that all
Speaker 4: the borders are open, and people thinking about planning. What
Speaker 4: we know from the research that we've done is that
Speaker 4: ninety eight percent of Nezella's want to leave some form
Speaker 4: of legacy, so we know that it's really important. How
Speaker 4: they then go about turning that into an action and
Speaker 4: getting their will written is different for different people.
Speaker 1: And this theme of wild Week twenty twenty four is
Speaker 1: charitable giving. Can you tell us a bit about how
Speaker 1: charitable giving fits into a will?
Speaker 4: So a will is a really powerful tool to be
Speaker 4: able to pass on a legacy not only to your
Speaker 4: friends and your faro, but actually also to an organization
Speaker 4: that might have been really meaningful for you. So there's
Speaker 4: a couple of different ways that you can do that.
Speaker 4: In a will, you can leave what is called essentially
Speaker 4: a gift, so that can be property. We've seen people
Speaker 4: leave houses to particular organization to repurpose for whether that
Speaker 4: be headquarters or particular community use. We've seen people leave
Speaker 4: cars to local high schools. We've also seen people leave
Speaker 4: monetary amounts just to help us every day spending. The
Speaker 4: other type of a gift is what we call a
Speaker 4: kind of residual gift. So once everything in the world
Speaker 4: that is stipulated has been handed out, whether that be
Speaker 4: property or particular items, then you can leave a percentage
Speaker 4: of what's left to a charitable organization. And it can
Speaker 4: be as little as one percent, but it makes quite
Speaker 4: a big difference to those organizations in terms of that
Speaker 4: funding that helps them to keep going and running long
Speaker 4: into the future.
Speaker 1: Oh. Interesting, and are there any favorite charities that we
Speaker 1: seem to be donating to here in our TIOA.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are definitely some favorites.
Speaker 4: We would say child cancer, animal welfare definitely show up
Speaker 4: in humanitarian causes, so we see a lot of people
Speaker 4: wanting to donate to really well known charities, unique for
Speaker 4: Redge Cross, the Child Cancer Foundation. And then we also
Speaker 4: see people really taking an area of passion.
Speaker 3: For example, we had a gentleman.
Speaker 4: Who was super passionate about wildlife, and so what he
Speaker 4: did was he asked us to look at conservational organizations
Speaker 4: that were in the local area that looked after like
Speaker 4: forestry and birds, and so he wanted to be able
Speaker 4: to contribute to them ongoing and set up funds that
Speaker 4: were able to then be used for a variety of
Speaker 4: different projects.
Speaker 3: So there's a whole heap of different ways you can do.
Speaker 4: It doesn't necessarily have to be one organization depending on
Speaker 4: what you want to leave, and your.
Speaker 3: Gift doesn't have to be huge.
Speaker 4: It can be a few thousand dollars, or it can
Speaker 4: be a percentage. There's a whole lot of choice, and
Speaker 4: so we just encourage people to think about what would
Speaker 4: be meaningful to them, what fits within their kind, the
Speaker 4: legacy they want to leave, in the kind of the
Speaker 4: amount of assets they think they might have, and then
Speaker 4: think about leaving to an organization in that way.
Speaker 1: And Catherine nine and that you are pretty open about
Speaker 1: how you have structured your will, and that You've actually
Speaker 1: got a part of your legacy going to a charity,
Speaker 1: and that's quite meaningful to you. Do you want to
Speaker 1: share us a bit you know about that story.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So personally, in my will, I've chosen to leave
Speaker 4: a gift to a charity that's really close to my heart,
Speaker 4: which is the Starship Foundation. So what I didn't realize
Speaker 4: when I was a child and I used their services
Speaker 4: quite frequently during my teenage years, was that thirty percent
Speaker 4: of their annual operating funding comes from bequesting, which is
Speaker 4: basically another word for leaving some type of.
Speaker 3: Residual gift in your will. And that number really astounded me.
Speaker 4: And so when I thought about the many weeks and
Speaker 4: days that I'd spent in Starship with the amazing nurses,
Speaker 4: you know, long after my parents had gone home because
Speaker 4: they were juggling looking after three kids and one in
Speaker 4: Starship but two still needed some help, I just think,
Speaker 4: what an amazing way to not only leave to my
Speaker 4: two young children, but also to leave to all of
Speaker 4: the children of New Zealand through Starship. And so I've
Speaker 4: gone and put a gift into mind because I think
Speaker 4: by the time I reach hopefully fingers crossed the point
Speaker 4: of my will becoming a reality, I think financially, I'll
Speaker 4: be in a pretty different place to where I am
Speaker 4: at the moment with my young kids and you know,
Speaker 4: paying for all the wonderful costs that come with having
Speaker 4: small children and family. So for me, it was starship.
Speaker 4: But everyone will have their own personal cause, and I
Speaker 4: think it's just about what is that legacy beyond your
Speaker 4: family you want to leave.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, thanks so much for sharing your story there too.
Speaker 1: Really appreciate that, and that's really interesting for people to see,
Speaker 1: you know, the power of charitable giving too. Are there
Speaker 1: any myths around charitable giving that we should bust?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the most common one is I need
Speaker 4: to have millions to leave. I think people kind of
Speaker 4: imagine that they need to be ad to be in
Speaker 4: the game. And actually, when you think about how you
Speaker 4: might donate when you're living, is not just dissimilar to
Speaker 4: how you might donate in your will, in the sense
Speaker 4: of you do not have to set up your own
Speaker 4: charitable organization with millions of dollars. It can be as
Speaker 4: small as a thousand or a few thousand dollars as well,
Speaker 4: And I think equally as well, I don't know that
Speaker 4: people know how many people are actually donating. So the
Speaker 4: thing that really surprised me when I joined Public Trust
Speaker 4: was about eight percent of New Zealanders that have written
Speaker 4: their will with us in the last three years left
Speaker 4: a charitable gift. And that was actually lower than I
Speaker 4: was just personally expecting. That was my own assumption, not
Speaker 4: based on any real fact at all, and I would
Speaker 4: really love to see that number rise because even a
Speaker 4: one percent shift in that number, if we think about
Speaker 4: the billions that are going to move an intergenerational wealth
Speaker 4: transfer over the next twenty years, I just think about
Speaker 4: how much of that could also be put into creating
Speaker 4: and enduring New Zealand with those charitable organizations still present
Speaker 4: to help people. So those are definitely a couple that
Speaker 4: struck me.
Speaker 1: You know, zooming out to an investment portfolio. How common
Speaker 1: is it for people to leave shares or parts of
Speaker 1: an investment portfolio in their will.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we definitely see people. We tend to have two
Speaker 4: types of camps. We have the really avid investors who
Speaker 4: are really specific about exactly what they want to have happened,
Speaker 4: and they've been investing for years. And so I've got
Speaker 4: a friend who's definitely in that camp. As I've actively
Speaker 4: encouraged them to get their will, They've kind of asked
Speaker 4: lots of questions about, well, how could I leave an
Speaker 4: enduring growth and also an enduring kind of income from it.
Speaker 4: And then we've also got people who just wanted it
Speaker 4: to be wrapped up and included and kind of cashed
Speaker 4: up at that point.
Speaker 3: So there's definitely options for everyone.
Speaker 4: I would say, the more specific and unique the circumstance
Speaker 4: you've got, it might pay to go and see someone
Speaker 4: in real life or talk to someone over the phone
Speaker 4: versus maybe writing or well online. But there's definitely different
Speaker 4: ways to structure it depending on what you want those
Speaker 4: shares to do for you and your loved ones in
Speaker 4: the future.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was talking to someone the other day actually, and
Speaker 1: they're like, I've just realized I need it will because
Speaker 1: if something happened to me, I don't want people selling
Speaker 1: my shares, you know, I want them to be able
Speaker 1: to keep it. And that was quite interesting for them
Speaker 1: to kind of have that realization to go, you know
Speaker 1: about that what they wanted with their legacy. What are
Speaker 1: some of the tax implications or advantages when it comes
Speaker 1: to you know, leaving some investments.
Speaker 4: I mean, I definitely would not say that I'm a
Speaker 4: tax expert, and people should always get their own advice.
Speaker 4: But ultimately, of course, you can claim back on donations
Speaker 4: made if you're earning a text income when you give
Speaker 4: when you're living, and also entities that earn income like
Speaker 4: a states once people have passed away.
Speaker 3: Also there are tax opportunities in that front to claim.
Speaker 4: But in a lot of cases, what we see is
Speaker 4: that people don't necessarily have the funds or feel like
Speaker 4: they have the funds to give while they're living.
Speaker 3: And I definitely would say that I am in that camp.
Speaker 3: So for me, it.
Speaker 4: Felt more doable to put it into as part of
Speaker 4: my will and part of my legacy because again fingers
Speaker 4: crossed at that point in my life, I feel like
Speaker 4: it will be a different life stage to where I'm
Speaker 4: at at the moment. But there's definitely pros and cons
Speaker 4: to both, and it depends on the outcome that you're
Speaker 4: trying to achieve. So we always recommend to people go
Speaker 4: and speak to your accountant or when you're writing your will,
Speaker 4: to one of our professionals about what are the options,
Speaker 4: and they will give you some advice or direct you
Speaker 4: to someone to give you some advice.
Speaker 1: So what is that average amount bequeathed.
Speaker 4: In the last three years for the wills that we've
Speaker 4: written at Public Trust is about ten thousand dollars, So
Speaker 4: there's definitely quite a range that we see, and that
Speaker 4: doesn't include necessarily people who set up their own charitable
Speaker 4: organization ongoing. That's individuals gifting an amount to someone. So
Speaker 4: again it's pretty notable, and it's pretty amazing that even
Speaker 4: eight percent of New Zealanders who are writing wills with
Speaker 4: us are willing to leave that to an organization.
Speaker 1: So talked a lot about the importance of a will
Speaker 1: and how to structure a charitable giving and leaving investments,
Speaker 1: but ultimately, how do you create a will?
Speaker 3: No, there's a few different options.
Speaker 4: You can go and see your local solicitor, you can
Speaker 4: come to us at Public Trust, you can go and
Speaker 4: see another trust, your organization. There are a number of
Speaker 4: online options which are quite cost effective. Surprisingly, so one
Speaker 4: of the things we hear from people is they think
Speaker 4: wills are quite expensive, but our will start from eighty
Speaker 4: five dollars online, which I think is not too bad
Speaker 4: in today's economic environment. Or you can call a trust
Speaker 4: your organization and make an appointment to see someone either
Speaker 4: in a customer center or a branch or over the phone.
Speaker 4: So a public trust. We've got twenty one locations nationwide,
Speaker 4: so we're in most places where people might want to
Speaker 4: come and see us.
Speaker 3: But we're also happy to write.
Speaker 4: A will over the phone or happy to help you
Speaker 4: if you want to still on your couch in your
Speaker 4: pajamas once you get home from work and write your
Speaker 4: will there with your loved ones with you.
Speaker 1: Say, if there's a free online tool or something. Is
Speaker 1: there anything to watch out for when you're creating a will.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think for me it's better to go with
Speaker 4: a reputable source, whether that's a trustee organization or a
Speaker 4: solicitor that you know. And I think it's also really
Speaker 4: important to understand that you need to make sure that
Speaker 4: it's been witnessed correctly, which is part of what makes
Speaker 4: it legally binding. So there are specific steps to follow
Speaker 4: in terms of how many people sign and how they
Speaker 4: sign the documents, and that can be a bit of
Speaker 4: a downfall. And then of course making sure that you
Speaker 4: have a copy of that will where people know where
Speaker 4: it is, because quite often what we hear from people
Speaker 4: is I went to find it in Dad's top draw
Speaker 4: and it wasn't there, And now I've got no idea
Speaker 4: and what do I do? And unfortunately, if you can't
Speaker 4: locate it, then it's tricky to prove that there was
Speaker 4: a will in fact or what those wishes were.
Speaker 1: Because I understand here in Altio it has to be
Speaker 1: a wet signature on your will, and yet it has
Speaker 1: to be witnessed in person too, right, so no digital
Speaker 1: wills signature is allowed.
Speaker 3: Not at the moment.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: So for.
Speaker 1: Us, it do have a will, how often should we
Speaker 1: be looking at it, refreshing it, updating it.
Speaker 4: Yet, look, we recommend every three to five years, or
Speaker 4: when something big in your life happens, whether it's a
Speaker 4: marriage or a split, or children, or you buy a business,
Speaker 4: or you're heading overseas obviously all of those big milestones.
Speaker 4: Think of it a bit like your packing list to
Speaker 4: do if you're moving house, buying houses, or doing any
Speaker 4: of those sorts of things. So three to five years
Speaker 4: is a good mark because it tends to give you
Speaker 4: enough regularity without costing you too much to do those
Speaker 4: quick updates.
Speaker 1: Hey, well, thank you so much, Catherine. Is there anything
Speaker 1: else you want people to know for Will's Week twenty
Speaker 1: thirty four.
Speaker 4: Really, my part request would be just give a gift,
Speaker 4: whether it's to a loved one because you write a will,
Speaker 4: or a gift to an organization so that they can
Speaker 4: keep helping New Zealanders. I think this Will's Week, really
Speaker 4: what we want in public trust is for everybody to
Speaker 4: be having conversations about the future and planning ahead and
Speaker 4: getting their.
Speaker 3: Life admin sorted. And we'd love to help it any.
Speaker 4: Way we can, but just tick it off the list
Speaker 4: and you'll feel a lot better for it.
Speaker 1: Nice and leaving their intergenerational wealth and creating your legacy. Hey,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time, Catherine, and really
Speaker 1: appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.
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