1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,200 Speaker 1: How about the war on cones? Man, I am here 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: for this A The Transport Minister, Simeon Brown has started 3 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: the war. He's planning, he says, to roll out a 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 1: risk based approach to temporary traffic management, and he wants 5 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: to get n ZTA to release a quarterly report on 6 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: how much money they're actually spending on traffic management. He 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: says there are too many cones and the current approach 8 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: is out of control. Dave Tilton is the chair of 9 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: the Temporary Traffic Management Industry Steering Group and he joins 10 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: us now, hey. 11 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 2: Dave, hi, how are you doing well? 12 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: Thank you? Do you agree with him that there are 13 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: too many cones? 14 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 2: I'd say in some places? Yeah, I mean ultimately it's 15 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: probably not that simple. Though. Cones ultimately serve a purpose 16 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: they're at all, and we are trying to keep people 17 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 2: safe in the road environment. That's road users and workers. 18 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: So it's absolutely true that that balance doesn't work sometimes 19 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: and there's an overuse of them. And really it comes 20 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: down to whether the risk has been assessed and it's 21 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: not quite matching how it's been treated. 22 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, what so is it a problem? That is what 23 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: explains me what's going on here? Is that ZI turns 24 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: up to a site, assesses the risk and they're incorrectly 25 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: assessing the risk and then dumping too many cones there. 26 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: Or are the rules just so prescriptive that it doesn't 27 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: really matter what the risk is, they just end up 28 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: with too many cones. 29 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: So I'd say it's more of the latter, and it's 30 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 2: it probably comes down to the system that we have 31 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: and have had for the last twenty plus years. So 32 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: it's a very prescriptive system and for the most part 33 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: it served its purpose. But it's certainly been identified and 34 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: in fact predates the current government. Is that method, that 35 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: process isn't really quite getting the right amount of TTM, 36 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: and the purpose is to get just the right amount 37 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 2: of TTM, So just the right amount so it's safe 38 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: but not too much that there's excess and there's waste, 39 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: but also not too little because of course that would 40 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: create safe stage. 41 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: Mate, aren't we far away from having too little in 42 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: terms of cones? 43 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: It's collectively if you looked at across the system, Yeah, 44 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: probably true. But also there's still there isn't There is 45 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: still a responsibility by everyone who undertakes activity in the 46 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: road to make sure that people are safe. You know, 47 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: there's plus nine hundred more than nine hundred people killed 48 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 2: in TTM environments. 49 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: So the last on Ponsivy Road, right, they're doing some 50 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 1: work on pons Andbi road at the moment kind of 51 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: there by the intersection with williamsonab and I walked past 52 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: it today and I reckon those cones. I mean like, 53 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: I didn't measure it with my eyes, but I reckon 54 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: that those cones on reflection would be like thirty centimeters 55 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: away from each other. That's way to me. I didn't 56 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: need that. If the cones were a meter away from 57 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 1: each other, I wasn't going to walk into the road. 58 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: Was I. Yeah, I'd say that. And I don't know 59 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: the specifics. I haven't been our positive road today, but 60 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 2: I'd say that those kind of scenarios are where the 61 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: risk hasn't been necessarily identified correctly and the treatment mismatches 62 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: the risk. So really the system we should have is 63 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: where we can design for the risk of a motorway 64 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: is different to a Pontivy road, which is different to 65 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: a cul de sac in the back of Gisbon. That's 66 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: we should have a system that can incorporate a difference 67 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: in risk and therefore the treatment can be different and 68 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 2: at the moment that's not quite outworks, which is why 69 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: the whole rist base TTAM thing is is really a 70 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: good good thing to explore. 71 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Dave, how much does it cost to rent 72 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: one of those little cones every day? 73 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: Well, I've seen that around the face. And in fact, 74 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: actually that's not how it's charged for. So there's no 75 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: one really charges per cone. It's it's always charging for 76 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 2: the for the plant, plant and and people and plant. 77 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: That's what's a plant, plants and trucks, right. It treates 78 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 2: trucks to put the put the equipment out, and of 79 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: course they sometimes use this protective trucks, you know, behind mode. 80 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: You don't have like a traffic you don't have a 81 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: road cone company. It is the if you're hiring the trucks, 82 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: they come with the cones. 83 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's almost universally how it's done, correct. 84 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: And then how do you factor in the cost of 85 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: the cones, because I mean, obviously, if you're just gonna 86 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: geard me one cone, we're going to give me fifty 87 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: thousand cones is a massive difference. 88 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, But most traffic management companies themselves wouldn't charge 89 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: that way. But also a lot of traffic management is 90 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: done by the civil contractor themselves or by contract that's 91 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: doing it. So there's an amount of subcontract to TTM, 92 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: but there's also quite a lot done by you know, 93 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: the organic entity that's doing the activity. 94 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: Brilliant, Hey listen to Thank you very much, man, I 95 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: really appreciate having chat to you about that. That's Dave Tilton, 96 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 1: who's the chair of the Temporary Traffic Management Industry Steering Group. 97 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: But somebody's going to go down Ponsiby Road now and 98 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: measure how far are those COEs are proving completely wrong? 99 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: For more from hither Duplessy Allen Drive. 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