Speaker 1: Live from the Export Beer Garden Studios. You're listening to
Speaker 1: the BYC and before we begin, we must apologize to
Speaker 1: our legions of listeners for being absent at the wheel
Speaker 1: and one of the most extraordinary fortnights in New Zealand
Speaker 1: cricket history. It was an unfortunate combination of holidays and
Speaker 1: overseas travel. But we're here now to reflect upon the
Speaker 1: almost unbelievable results of both our men and women cricketers.
Speaker 1: To be honest, I'm still struggling to get my head
Speaker 1: around what has occurred. To say, it runs completely against
Speaker 1: the tide as an understatement, and I'm grateful to have
Speaker 1: my colleagues here today to make sense of it all.
Speaker 1: So let's get into it. And Dylan Cleaver, boyo boyo,
Speaker 1: boyo boy you must feel stupid, um, but let's start
Speaker 1: off with the women winning the T twenty World Cup.
Speaker 1: I mean extrawd. Yeah, there is no way in Haydyes,
Speaker 1: I would have thought they even had a glimmer of
Speaker 1: a chance given their run up to that tournament. And
Speaker 1: then bang may win the tournament.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that'd be harp hound in pool play. Yes,
Speaker 2: I thought they'd fall over to India and Australia, which
Speaker 2: they did actually fall over to Australia.
Speaker 3: And that would be all. She wrote.
Speaker 2: I have to say I did know that I was
Speaker 2: going away to Vietnam during this time, and I did
Speaker 2: look at the schedule and my confession he had all
Speaker 2: our listeners minfession as I thought, oh well, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to miss so imagine my shock as I was
Speaker 2: refreshing the crick inop furiously from Hochi Min City to
Speaker 2: see the White Ferns win that tournament.
Speaker 3: Just the short score board for the final. They play South.
Speaker 2: Africa in the final, which was fortunate, which we'll get to.
Speaker 2: They scored one hundred and fifty eight for five, with
Speaker 2: Melly Kerr top scoring with forty three from thirty eight,
Speaker 2: Halliday brookel thirty eight from twenty eight and the veteran
Speaker 2: Susie Bads who has become a little bit of a
Speaker 2: viral star since that world cap thirty two from thirty one.
Speaker 2: And I have to say South Africa never looked in
Speaker 2: the races no during that chase. I have caught up
Speaker 2: with the game bull boye Balls since I've returned New
Speaker 2: Zealand bowling execution and plans were superb. South Africa won
Speaker 2: twenty six for nine. Melly Kerr the star of the
Speaker 2: show three for twenty four and not far behind Rosemary
Speaker 2: Mayor with three for twenty five. Just a really professional
Speaker 2: performance in both the semi and the final. The semi
Speaker 2: get a little bit squeaky against Westerndys with Simsey Bates
Speaker 2: having to bowl the last over, But again I never
Speaker 2: and the hindsight is perfect vision, right, But I never
Speaker 2: got the sense that the White fans were anything but
Speaker 2: ahead of the game, and certainly that was the case
Speaker 2: for the final, where they were just they were the
Speaker 2: best team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pull forward. Where the bloody hell did that come from?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Well I was going to say, were you and I
Speaker 5: of course just around your way because Dylan was a way.
Speaker 5: We were keen to watch all of these games and
Speaker 5: do podcasts, but Dylan let us down and we just
Speaker 5: had to cave in. But you know what a selfless
Speaker 5: act from the three of us to be away and
Speaker 5: coaxing what has been just an unbelievable couple of weeks.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the White Ferns World.
Speaker 5: Cup win is it's just blows my mind. I mean,
Speaker 5: never in a million years did I think that we
Speaker 5: would if we won a Cricket World Cup, that the
Speaker 5: first Cricket World Cup that we'd win would be the
Speaker 5: White fans.
Speaker 4: It's just unreal.
Speaker 5: You know, even today they're ranked fourth in the world
Speaker 5: and you know every World Cup you need it a
Speaker 5: little bit of luck. But they played really, really bloody well,
Speaker 5: and you know, to be fair, going into that tournament,
Speaker 5: I think they'd lost eleven in a row. They'd lost
Speaker 5: two out of nineteen games in twenty twenty four. To
Speaker 5: be fair, that was against Australia in England. But you know,
Speaker 5: those are the teams that we're expecting to come up against.
Speaker 4: And have to get over the top of.
Speaker 5: And in the end we did have to do that,
Speaker 5: and that the draw and I'm not playing it down.
Speaker 5: I'm just saying it just worked out beautifully for us
Speaker 5: and we weren't alone and thinking that. I was reading
Speaker 5: a thing on Newsroom which said how before the tournament,
Speaker 5: Sophie Devine was dialing into a media call. There were
Speaker 5: two media on the call, one from Newsroom. I don't
Speaker 5: know who the other one was, but you know, this
Speaker 5: was massively, massively unexpected and how fantastic for players like
Speaker 5: well in particular for Susi Baits and Sophie Devine who've
Speaker 5: basically dedicated half of their lives to playing for this team,
Speaker 5: for them to inspire the next generation. And I loved
Speaker 5: hearing a mereily A cur talking about how when she
Speaker 5: was nine years old watching them on TV. I think
Speaker 5: they lost that twenty ten final. I think it was
Speaker 5: in the last over, basically off the last ball, and
Speaker 5: what a great redemption act.
Speaker 4: That is sensational, sensational for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think to say, in our defense, if
Speaker 1: you looked at the form guide Dylan in terms of
Speaker 1: you know, what was what they what they would performed,
Speaker 1: they were bringing to the tournament, we were completely within
Speaker 1: our rights to say wow, you know, and I remember
Speaker 1: the discussions we were having about the White fans, and
Speaker 1: you know, none of us really had an answer and
Speaker 1: it just seemed like they were on a downward spiral.
Speaker 1: And so therefore it just makes this achievement of theirs
Speaker 1: all the more significant.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does.
Speaker 2: And just a quick point, New Zealand, the White Fans
Speaker 2: have won a World Cup before, but not a Teach
Speaker 2: twenty World Cup. So this is the first Teach twenty
Speaker 2: World Cup we won. But I think maybe we got
Speaker 2: a false sense of their hopelessness because of that. As
Speaker 2: Paul mentioned, the fact that all we played over the
Speaker 2: last twelve eily month seems to be Australia or England, true,
Speaker 2: who are very very good teams, who are highly resourced.
Speaker 2: Granted you should never lose that many games. I mean,
Speaker 2: teach when he is seen as that kind of game
Speaker 2: can even up this song exactly because of the format,
Speaker 2: and they never seem to work when we were playing
Speaker 2: Australia or England.
Speaker 3: But perhaps they learned enough.
Speaker 2: And the thing that was really heartening about this tournament,
Speaker 2: and I really hope becomes the way forward for the
Speaker 2: White fans, is that it wasn't just Sophie, Susie and
Speaker 2: Mellie Kerr. In fact, Sophie Devine didn't have a great tournament.
Speaker 2: I think she might have made one significant contribution with
Speaker 2: the bat. Obviously your leadership was important, Obviously she's still
Speaker 2: a talismanic figure for that team, but actual playing performance
Speaker 2: wasn't that strong. And players that I've been borderline critical
Speaker 2: of the management keeping in and just letting them fail
Speaker 2: and fail and fail without seeming any accountability, have actually
Speaker 2: started to repay that faith and George Plumoer being head
Speaker 2: of the class there with a number of really good
Speaker 2: contributions with the bat. That's got to continue. Brookli a
Speaker 2: good player, that's.
Speaker 3: Continue.
Speaker 2: Rosemere, the Spinners, Fan Jonas and eating Carson.
Speaker 3: Eating Carson I thought was terrific.
Speaker 2: So there is I know, it seems funny to talk
Speaker 2: about green shoots when you've actually just gone and done
Speaker 2: the thing that you've achieved it that you really.
Speaker 3: Want to do.
Speaker 2: But there's actually green shoots there for sustained success.
Speaker 3: And I think that's important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think that's that was the sort of
Speaker 1: thing that we were discussing, where were the green shoots
Speaker 1: in terms of this white Furan side. And you know,
Speaker 1: on reflection pull forward, maybe in hindsight, you know the
Speaker 1: fact that they were playing England and Australia probably considered
Speaker 1: the two best sides. We got it flogging, but maybe
Speaker 1: we did get some learnings and we were in the
Speaker 1: in the fire the whole time and that sort of
Speaker 1: benefited us in the long run.
Speaker 5: Built some callousies. Do you think Jason may be maybe
Speaker 5: a bit tough thing? Yeah, Look, I think with hindsight,
Speaker 5: as you say, certainly didn't feel like that. At the time,
Speaker 5: it felt like we were just getting beaten up. But yeah,
Speaker 5: there's a method to the madness. And yeah, when when
Speaker 5: you see those players like Georgia Plummer, Eden Carson fran
Speaker 5: Jonas another one as he gazed the wicket keeper just
Speaker 5: to share unadulterated joy, well, what they achieved was infectious
Speaker 5: and amazing and yeah.
Speaker 3: And they know how to do it now.
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, there's this built and there's a confidence
Speaker 5: that's going to come with us. I mean, obviously throughout
Speaker 5: the tournament that has built and built and built. But
Speaker 5: you know, they talked about, you know, the coaching staff,
Speaker 5: Susie Bates, just massively defensive about their team, you know,
Speaker 5: for the whole year, saying now it's going to be okay,
Speaker 5: stop worrying about it. We've got faith in the players.
Speaker 5: We're going to keep picking them. We don't care what
Speaker 5: anybody else thinks. And they've been absolutely vindicated. And you know,
Speaker 5: we've talked before about that intent with the bat and
Speaker 5: it was there, I mean from that first game against
Speaker 5: India where they basically we're going to go out and
Speaker 5: try and score one hundred and sixty runs in every
Speaker 5: game and they went out of that first game and
Speaker 5: got one hundred and sixty. You know, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 5: it really felt like something had changed, the confidence had come.
Speaker 5: They had a nice warm up victory against South Africa
Speaker 5: and then it all just came together beautifully in that
Speaker 5: game against India. Dylan, you mentioned Sophie Devine not having
Speaker 5: not a blinding tournament with the bat, but lots of
Speaker 5: amazing field changes, obviously an inspirational leader and all of
Speaker 5: those sorts of things, and absolutely crucial fifty seven off
Speaker 5: thirty six, and that went against India two, which really
Speaker 5: set the tone for the tournament.
Speaker 1: And you have to maybe argue, Dylan, cleve of vindication
Speaker 1: for the coach who you were bagging relentlessly, Vindication for
Speaker 1: sticking with it, sticking with the team.
Speaker 2: Absolute vindication in terms of you benchmark yourselves on your
Speaker 2: performance and pinnacle events. Yes, in a World Cup as
Speaker 2: a pinacle event. I guess that leads into this sort
Speaker 2: of same question as it worth the pain that you've endured.
Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't that long ago where it felt
Speaker 2: like a rain cloud follow the New Zealand team all
Speaker 2: throughout their fifty over World Cup which they hosted and
Speaker 2: they were pretty bang average.
Speaker 3: It is it worth going through all that for these spikes?
Speaker 2: I think in the moment you have to say, yes,
Speaker 2: it probably is, sure, but I don't. At the same time,
Speaker 2: just to contradict myself, I don't think we can go
Speaker 2: into that dip again. No, the lows can't be as
Speaker 2: low as they were to get to that kind of high.
Speaker 1: Well, I think too. You know, just the fact that
Speaker 1: they've achieved this is going to be a massive, massively
Speaker 1: significant to the side because they know they can do it,
Speaker 1: and that's going to build confidence. You know, there is
Speaker 1: and this is not just to do with the women,
Speaker 1: it's also to do with the men. From my own
Speaker 1: point of view, I go T twenty World Cups. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it is a massive achievement. How do New Zealand
Speaker 1: Cricket capitalize on this, Paul four? Because you know, obviously
Speaker 1: there's going to be some real enthusiasm out there now
Speaker 1: for young female players out there seeing the World champions
Speaker 1: and going, oh, I want a part of that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well, they've talked about the method and the approach that
Speaker 5: they've taken to this tournament. They've been trying to set
Speaker 5: the team up for a for a long future. I
Speaker 5: think of the words that they've talked about and given
Speaker 5: the players they've backed. They've backed the players to the
Speaker 5: help throughout the tournament over the past twelve months. So
Speaker 5: you'd hope that lots of confidence would come with that. Look,
Speaker 5: I how first of all, I reckon we should pay
Speaker 5: a few more teams that are a bit shitter than
Speaker 5: maybe the two best teams.
Speaker 4: In the world. I reckon that would be a really
Speaker 4: good start. I think that.
Speaker 5: Everyone that loves cricket should remind our best and brightest
Speaker 5: and most fantastic young sportswoman that choosing cricket as a
Speaker 5: career is a pretty bloody decent career these days, you know,
Speaker 5: it's not like the old days. I think two of
Speaker 5: our top five earners cricket players, merely Kerr and Sophie Devine,
Speaker 5: just as an example, So you know, there's a genuine
Speaker 5: career there to pursue. And you know, I think that's
Speaker 5: a big thing. I reckon getting the players out and
Speaker 5: about just so important. You know, you can't be what
Speaker 5: you can't see and all that kind of stuff. And look,
Speaker 5: I was looking at the schedule and it's pretty tough.
Speaker 5: We've got the Aussies here for three ODI eyes, but
Speaker 5: it's right before Christmas, so that's going to be a
Speaker 5: bit of a tough cell. But there's some t twenties
Speaker 5: in late March against the Australians that I think should
Speaker 5: be shaping up as a real pinnacle event for women's
Speaker 5: cricket in New Zealand, and it would be great to
Speaker 5: see the country get behind the team and see if
Speaker 5: they can pull off another miracle against their old nemesis.
Speaker 2: I think the point about asking about how Ncincy you
Speaker 2: are going to leverage this is critical for the future
Speaker 2: of the women's game here. Paul is absolutely right and
Speaker 2: mentioning that it's a genuine career pathway. Now, I think
Speaker 2: it's an easier career pathway than nepple, which has always
Speaker 2: been the most popular sport with talents and female athletes. Yes,
Speaker 2: and it's a more easier on your body career pathway
Speaker 2: than either of the rugby coats, although they are exploding
Speaker 2: in popularity as well. If you're a talented young female
Speaker 2: sports person, you can be looking out at the WPL
Speaker 2: where you can get salaries and the six figure salaries.
Speaker 3: You can get. You're looking at the women's.
Speaker 2: Big Bash, which is you know, high five figure for
Speaker 2: a couple of months work. There's the woman's hundred, which
Speaker 2: is only going to get bigger and bigger. And even
Speaker 2: you know, I know we kind of tend to look
Speaker 2: at our own domestic crickets more village green type, but
Speaker 2: the match fees equal to the men's for.
Speaker 3: Our domestic game.
Speaker 2: There is opportunities there for quite lucrative careers, so I'll
Speaker 2: be taking there. But beyond that, I think it's critical
Speaker 2: they get into more schools. Yes, and I'm not talking
Speaker 2: about your Angie rus and your.
Speaker 3: Epsom girls and your sin Hilders.
Speaker 2: There is talent oozing out of our schools in New
Speaker 2: Zealand that do not get access to cricket because cricket
Speaker 2: is still relatively cost prohibitive in terms of gear, and
Speaker 2: it's also seen and there's no easy way of putting this,
Speaker 2: but it's it's seen largely as a white, middle class
Speaker 2: sport that's changing a bit with the influx of South
Speaker 2: Asian immigrants and that's great, but I still think with
Speaker 2: New Zealand cricket has a job to do in breaking
Speaker 2: down those barriers and those perceptions of cricket being that
Speaker 2: kind of game for those kind of school girls.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, nice point, and once again congratulations to the
Speaker 1: women for that outstanding result against all the odds. Having
Speaker 1: said that, they've just gone down to one of the
Speaker 1: series against India overnight, no meleicure, Yeah yeah.
Speaker 4: But hey hey dangerously hungover?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, probably they probably haven't landed the plane yet.
Speaker 1: We'll give them. We'll give them that excuse, shall we.
Speaker 1: But yes, no, superb achievement and well done to them.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be back shortly.
Speaker 1: You discuss another phenomenal cricket happening New Zealand versus India
Speaker 1: and India welcome back. Wow, I mean, Stone the Crows.
Speaker 1: What the bloody hell is going on? We've just been
Speaker 1: talking about the woman winning the T twenty World Cup
Speaker 1: once again. Never in my wildest fantasies and dreams, Paul Forward,
Speaker 1: would I have ever imagined New Zealand winning a Test
Speaker 1: series in India. What the hell is going on?
Speaker 5: I know, it's utterly extraordinary, and I keep going around
Speaker 5: and around in my head as to which one was
Speaker 5: more unexpected, the woman winning the World Cup.
Speaker 4: Or this Test series victory.
Speaker 5: And it's hard to separate them, to be honest, just
Speaker 5: unreal and you know when you factor and it's the
Speaker 5: first time we're ever a series in the World Test Championship.
Speaker 5: We don't have Williamson, we don't have Henry because one
Speaker 5: of his lovely glutes was strained. We sent Michael Bracewll home.
Speaker 5: We were forced to pick Satna because he had a
Speaker 5: side strain. Then we're up against in India who have
Speaker 5: built in an utterly formidable fortress at home in eighteen series.
Speaker 4: Twelve year long winning streak.
Speaker 5: We've got a new captain in there and it's basically,
Speaker 5: you know, just taken just taken over. There's contract juggling
Speaker 5: and players that aren't contracted and all that sort of
Speaker 5: shenanigans is in full swing. We've just been drubbed in
Speaker 5: Sri Lanka and we've got a whole lot of blokes.
Speaker 5: We talked about it on this podcast about how poor
Speaker 5: so many of our players form. The form that they
Speaker 5: were in was shit house. It's just extraordinary. And the
Speaker 5: other thing about it, it's all of those words I
Speaker 5: said that start with un but it's also really uncontroversial win.
Speaker 5: We were utterly dominant. It's not a book. It wasn't
Speaker 5: some miraculous one off performance by one bloke lots of contribution.
Speaker 4: Sure, center was fantastic. I'm sure we'll talk about that
Speaker 4: in a minute. But it wasn't.
Speaker 5: It wasn't a fluke. And yeah, I just I just
Speaker 5: it's mind blowing unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Well, that's one of the more extraordinary facets of this
Speaker 1: for me, is that we were dominant. We didn't just
Speaker 1: when we were dominant, and you know, I thought after
Speaker 1: the first test, I'll be honest, and we caught them
Speaker 1: on the hot.
Speaker 3: You know, it was we got lucky with the condition.
Speaker 1: With the conditions in that first test. You know, it
Speaker 1: was a very damp, kind of weird wicket which suited
Speaker 1: our quicks, Henry Bold magnificently. We caught them on the hot.
Speaker 1: And now we're going to get our asses handed to
Speaker 1: us in Pune. And quite the contrary, we solidified even more.
Speaker 1: And in the face of that, Dylan Cleaver, the Indians
Speaker 1: crumbled that their first innings batting display was woeful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and let me just say, like if I had
Speaker 2: gone to a darkness retreat rather than Vietnam and I
Speaker 2: popped out of the darkness retreat and someone had told me, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're off to one KDI for the third Test. As
Speaker 2: a dead rubber, I would have gone, oh, yeah, of
Speaker 2: course it is, yeah, bigger, yes you too, nil down,
Speaker 2: let's hope we can save some face in Mumbai. But
Speaker 2: instead it's just been a series of extraordinary days of cricket.
Speaker 2: As Paul mentioned and yourself, it's not just the fact
Speaker 2: that we caught in here on the hop and that
Speaker 2: first Test maybe got a little bit lucky with their conditions.
Speaker 2: Were still bloody well outplayed them, yes, no matter. I
Speaker 2: mean it was Rowit that won the toss and chose
Speaker 2: to bat. We completely outplayed them. We played brilliantly. There
Speaker 2: we go to Pune and they have scrubbed the wicket
Speaker 2: at both ends, like they have literally handmade that wicket
Speaker 2: for home town strengths. Yeah, we've won the toss, but
Speaker 2: that's only one part of it. We've then gone on
Speaker 2: and I thought maybe two five nine from being in
Speaker 2: a reasonable position was maybe forty to fifty run sure
Speaker 2: too light, Yes, but yeah, I mean we all saw
Speaker 2: Mitch Santa coming from mile the way, didn't we.
Speaker 3: Yeah, come on, come on, well.
Speaker 1: Listen, you know because I I've been going through it
Speaker 1: in my head because we've talked about the side a lot, obviously,
Speaker 1: and my thought was, where where has this come from?
Speaker 1: Because I don't understand what the hell's happening. I want
Speaker 1: to make a reference, actually, Paul forward to that first
Speaker 1: Test match and that for our first innings when we
Speaker 1: were bowling. One of the things that I think was
Speaker 1: a vast improvement and one of the things that we
Speaker 1: used to be known for was our fielding and the
Speaker 1: field the catching in that first innings of that first
Speaker 1: Test was exceptional.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I agree, and it had been shoddy in
Speaker 5: Sri Lanka. Yes, it's the best way to describe it.
Speaker 4: I think. Yeah, we were we caught.
Speaker 5: I think there was one one missed chance I think
Speaker 5: in that in that first innings. But yeah, when you
Speaker 5: get when you're getting teams out for forty six, you're
Speaker 5: taking a lot of catches, you know, let's be honest.
Speaker 4: It was yeah, thank god.
Speaker 5: Because it was inexplicable that it had got so bad
Speaker 5: the fielding, so yeah, wonderful, wonderful to see that come
Speaker 5: back in. But that was only one of the facets
Speaker 5: that we were dominantant right Debating at the bowling as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I want to ask you this question because
Speaker 1: you know, with the change of captaincy, we were kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, we knew it was going to be lathamers.
Speaker 1: I happen to think that Latham's a pretty good skipper.
Speaker 1: I think he's kind of he strikes me as a
Speaker 1: no nonsense, doesn't get too wound up about stuff. Do
Speaker 1: you think Paul, you know, because he's usually been a
Speaker 1: fill in scapper and now he's actually legitimately got you know,
Speaker 1: the captaincy. How much of an influence do you think
Speaker 1: that was in terms of our performance? Do you think
Speaker 1: there has been a change of direction under him?
Speaker 5: It's an interesting one and I've heard some speculation about this,
Speaker 5: and I guess I don't really think a hell of
Speaker 5: a lot was done differently. Frankly, I think that if
Speaker 5: you put South and his captain, if you put Santner
Speaker 5: and his captain, if you put Conway in as captain,
Speaker 5: if you put Mitchell and as captain, you know or Latham,
Speaker 5: you're going to end up with I think roughly about
Speaker 5: the same. You've got the same resources as the same coaches.
Speaker 5: I reckon the same general approach to how you win
Speaker 5: Test cricket and so yeah, I'm not sure. I think
Speaker 5: that maybe the strength of this team is that they
Speaker 5: are all kind of come at it the same way.
Speaker 5: The exception would probably be someone like glennhillips 'm not
Speaker 5: quite sure what you'd get there, but yeah, look I
Speaker 5: don't I don't think it was noticeable the shift, to
Speaker 5: be honest now.
Speaker 2: Because when Saudi was captain, Latham was frequently in his ear.
Speaker 2: I noticed Saudi was frequently in Latham's ear. Caine obviously
Speaker 2: not on this Indian tour, but chipping in from mid off,
Speaker 2: I think there is one of the readers to my
Speaker 2: bounced substack made a really good point actually, which I
Speaker 2: want to get you guys thoughts on, because I think
Speaker 2: it's I think he worded it very well. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to get a perfect but I'll paraphrase that. Clearly,
Speaker 2: the team has moved and changed since the World Test
Speaker 2: Championship through natural attrition and guys going off and doing
Speaker 2: the T twenty circuit.
Speaker 3: But there's still those three or four.
Speaker 2: Senior guys around the team, and guys like Daryl Mitchell
Speaker 2: that were coming into that environment before they won the
Speaker 2: World Test Championship. That have that team culture DNA baked
Speaker 2: into them. So sure they might not be as strong
Speaker 2: an eleven now as they were back in those days,
Speaker 2: but there's still enough tough cricketers.
Speaker 3: There's enough cricketers that know how to win tough games.
Speaker 2: They might not do it frequently as frequently as we'd like,
Speaker 2: but it's still there. There's still a really good team culture.
Speaker 2: There's still a really selfless team culture. And I think
Speaker 2: we saw the selflessness of the way we battered in
Speaker 2: those games, like people going out there and reverse sweeping
Speaker 2: first ball highers shot not worried about their stats, but
Speaker 2: all they know is that this is our plan. We've
Speaker 2: got to put the Indian spinners off early. And it worked,
Speaker 2: even if a couple of them looks silly from time
Speaker 2: to time, and I think that's a really important part
Speaker 2: of it. I'm not denigrating what Tom Nathan did at all,
Speaker 2: because I think he's you know, you go to India,
Speaker 2: you will do something no other New Zealand Skippers done.
Speaker 2: You've done a magnificent job. But I think it is
Speaker 2: more about the DNA of that team rather than specific
Speaker 2: detailed tactics on the day. Although I think they got
Speaker 2: them really well, and Gary Steed's got to get some
Speaker 2: credit for that. And on that subject, actually got a
Speaker 2: bit of correspondence. Sure if I could read to you
Speaker 2: from Simon, and it's very well written correspondence, she says.
Speaker 2: In the year sixteen hundred, Italian cyclist scientist, sorry cyclist scientists,
Speaker 2: Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake by the Roman
Speaker 2: Catholic Church for stating, among other things, that the Earth
Speaker 2: was not the center of the universe, but in fact
Speaker 2: one of several planets that revolve around the Sun would
Speaker 2: burn and Gary Stead at the stake, as Jason Hoyt
Speaker 2: has been proposing for about two years now, have been
Speaker 2: an era of the same magnitude.
Speaker 3: Love your work, guys, Well.
Speaker 1: Hang on, I take issue with that. It was you
Speaker 1: two that were bagging stead all the time. I said,
Speaker 1: you know, steady as she goes steady, I'm with you.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, interesting. And we certainly had a plan against
Speaker 1: the Indian spinners, and that was very plane to say.
Speaker 3: It was a good plan.
Speaker 1: And it was a good plan, you know. And funnily enough,
Speaker 1: Washington Sunda, who I got seven to four in that
Speaker 1: first innings, I thought initially was the least threatening of
Speaker 1: the Indian bowlers paul Ford, but he was the one
Speaker 1: that toppled us in the end.
Speaker 3: Probably the one we planned for least too.
Speaker 4: Yes, I was.
Speaker 5: Gonna say it was a gutsy selection and they've got
Speaker 5: x Sharpetel sitting in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was.
Speaker 5: He was in the squad for the first Test. Then
Speaker 5: they brought Sunder in for the second Test and they
Speaker 5: put Sunder ahead of act Shapatel, which just sort of
Speaker 5: seemed bizarre. And I saw all sorts of criticism in
Speaker 5: the Indian papers about that decision. Well that was vindicated
Speaker 5: as well, I'd suggest. Yes, Sunda was, yeah, superb, but.
Speaker 4: It was only the second best bowler in the match. Unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's look at the New Zealand badding there. You know,
Speaker 1: Conways received a fair amount of criticism from Oscus's forms
Speaker 1: not been greatful quite some time, and watching him bad
Speaker 1: against Bumra is painful. It's a painful experience because him
Speaker 1: mainly Yeah, and it's just like he has no clue
Speaker 1: here of what the hell's going on, but he fought
Speaker 1: through it. Seventy odd Ratch and Revenger.
Speaker 4: I mean, we knew.
Speaker 1: This guy was good. But Dylan, he has just really
Speaker 1: stepped up and just looks a class act.
Speaker 2: Yeah, givin Conway, I would describe it as willed himself
Speaker 2: to seventy, Yes, whereas Ratch and glided his way to
Speaker 2: sixty four.
Speaker 1: It was like a completely different match when he came
Speaker 1: into player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, it's yeah Conway, I think I've mentioned
Speaker 2: it so often now it's almost become a cliche. But
Speaker 2: he's just become this enigma at the crease where you
Speaker 2: get him a bit of whipped outside of stump and
Speaker 2: he looks like the best player in the world. Yes,
Speaker 2: you tack him up on his thighs and he looks
Speaker 2: like a clubby.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's just bizarre. But look, he's making a word
Speaker 3: for him at the moment.
Speaker 2: He got those cheap runs at the end of the
Speaker 2: Street Ancor series which held him in good stead. He's
Speaker 2: made vital contributions in both tests now, so I think
Speaker 2: we can lay off dev yeah totally for a little while.
Speaker 2: We'll give me a couple of test grace Like Tom
Speaker 2: Lathan was the one that I was really concerned about, Yes,
Speaker 2: and he ends up playing the pivotal winnings of the
Speaker 2: match that second innings, eighty six was just incredibly vital.
Speaker 2: This is a team that had fallen for about what
Speaker 2: eighty something to spin in Sri Lanka the Test series.
Speaker 2: There another kind of one hundred, one hundred and ten
Speaker 2: all out in India. Right back in that match, Tom
Speaker 2: Lathan took it away from them with eighty six, which
Speaker 2: I've been thinking in my head, where does it rank
Speaker 2: in the list of New Zealand Tests innings overseas. I've
Speaker 2: probably got great Batch number one with one four six
Speaker 2: not out at the Whacker that.
Speaker 3: And this is only the Test that I've seen.
Speaker 2: Obviously, I can't go back to Martin Dunnley getting a
Speaker 2: double ten at Lord's or you know Stwey Dempster scoring
Speaker 2: one hundred against England at the Base and all that
Speaker 2: sort of thing. I can only judge what I see,
Speaker 2: but I probably got great Batch still.
Speaker 3: At number one.
Speaker 2: Maybe Williamson's one hundred and forty at the Gabba was
Speaker 2: a utter masterpiece. Crow one eight eight at the Gabba
Speaker 2: and then Latham eighty six and Pune is right up there.
Speaker 2: It's probably right up there with Ken's eighty at the
Speaker 2: Oval and that series we won in England when he
Speaker 2: came in at thirty nine for six and smashed eighty.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys got other ones. McCallum
Speaker 2: two hundred and two at Shajah and the Phil Hughes
Speaker 2: test was pretty special. But yeah, it's I rate it
Speaker 2: so highly. I just think it was the epitome of
Speaker 2: a captain's knocket.
Speaker 1: Totally and I think you're right. Image Yeah, I'm just
Speaker 1: choking to dear slowly and I think you're totally right.
Speaker 1: I think it took the game away from India. That
Speaker 1: was a decisive innings. And it's curious Paul Forward, because
Speaker 1: when it comes to Tom Latham, I never really feel
Speaker 1: like he's out of form for me. He's a pretty solid,
Speaker 1: no nonsense kind of player, but he, you know, he
Speaker 1: wasn't getting the scores and that was a crucial not
Speaker 1: from the scapper.
Speaker 5: Yeah, defensive masterclass and looked upon very very favorably by
Speaker 5: people that were at the ground as well, sort of saying,
Speaker 5: you know, it was really bloody difficult conditions and incredible,
Speaker 5: you know, an incredibly frustrating innings to be receiving. To
Speaker 5: be on the other end of Yeah, Yeah, I'm not sure.
Speaker 5: I guess The thing is with Latham, doesn't really feel
Speaker 5: like there's anyone sort of beating down the door, so
Speaker 5: he probably hasn't felt massively under pressure. And you do
Speaker 5: get the sense that he would come right, particularly when
Speaker 5: we get back to New Zealand, but certainly been a
Speaker 5: long long time between drinks for him.
Speaker 3: And it's had a problem that he's not under pressure.
Speaker 2: Though, is that maybe has complacency crept in He doesn't
Speaker 2: appear to be the sort of individual that would get complacent,
Speaker 2: But no, we're talking two years without a ton twenty
Speaker 2: nine innings and averaging less than thirty in that time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, maybe it goes back to that question
Speaker 5: that jaysusked. You know, maybe the burden of the captaincy
Speaker 5: is kind of the reverse for him and it's made him,
Speaker 5: I don't know, knuckle down or or maybe you just
Speaker 5: had some luck.
Speaker 4: I don't know. It didn't feel like a lucky innings.
Speaker 4: They did it and it was gretty and gutsy.
Speaker 1: It was a terrific knock and I just wanted to
Speaker 1: make the point that yesay, his form has been bad,
Speaker 1: but I never get the he strikes me as a
Speaker 1: very no nonsense, non hysterical kind of player who is
Speaker 1: a very professional kind of cricketer. You go through trots,
Speaker 1: you just keep going, you just keep working at your game.
Speaker 1: I just want to get your because you're a big
Speaker 1: fan of know Paul Forward. Just how good has Ratch
Speaker 1: and Ravendra been? Because you know, he just looks poised out.
Speaker 1: He looked class all the way through that series so far.
Speaker 5: Yeah, a couple of sublime knocks really and yeah, like
Speaker 5: I just love watching him bad. He's turning into the
Speaker 5: guy that you you know, you check the batting order
Speaker 5: and you're desperate to get in front of the television
Speaker 5: when you know that he's come in because you know
Speaker 5: it's going to be something glorious to watch.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: As we've said before, not many players in New Zealand
Speaker 5: have spent as much time in Indian conditions as Ratch
Speaker 5: and Revenger. And he really does feel like he feels
Speaker 5: very at home over there, and yeah, amazing. I think
Speaker 5: he's top of the batting stats in the series to date.
Speaker 5: That does not happen very often if you're an overseas player.
Speaker 5: I think there's guys like Alistair Cook and Steve's Smith
Speaker 5: when they're going through these miraculous. Yeah, he's been absolutely
Speaker 5: instrumental in both of those Test victories with those runs,
Speaker 5: particularly in the actence of absence of Williamson, and again
Speaker 5: feels like maybe the gap that Williamson has left has
Speaker 5: left some space, shifted the pressure onto the shoulders of
Speaker 5: guys like Lathan and Riven during it's played into New
Speaker 5: Zealand tens.
Speaker 1: And I just want to just ship in terms of
Speaker 1: our batsman, to shout out to will Young, you know,
Speaker 1: good steering us home in that first Test match. It
Speaker 1: was a it was a really courageous not and I
Speaker 1: was so stoked for him. I was more stoked for
Speaker 1: him than anyone else actually. And he's looking solid, he's
Speaker 1: looking good, and even you know, the Indian commentators are going,
Speaker 1: why the hell is this guy's average only twenty six,
Speaker 1: you know, and he's been up and down the order,
Speaker 1: He's been dropped, he's been out, he's been in, he's
Speaker 1: been out, he's been up and down. So I'm really
Speaker 1: really well, yeah, you know, and I was stoked for him.
Speaker 1: Now let's focus on the bowling and Santner, who is
Speaker 1: not a Test match bowler according to Ian Smith, according
Speaker 1: to most of us, Yeah, yeah, which which just surprised
Speaker 1: me because I felt that Mitchell Santner has been bowling
Speaker 1: quite well of late. Why is that? Why isn't he
Speaker 1: succeeded in that front on the Test match level? Paul Dylan?
Speaker 2: What? What?
Speaker 1: What? What's the reason for that?
Speaker 2: Maybe because others are seen as better, bigger turners of
Speaker 2: the ball and better options overseas, so he kind of
Speaker 2: gets the home Kish condition the Test because of his
Speaker 2: handy batting and the fact that he's really good at
Speaker 2: tennis and golf and darts and things like that. So
Speaker 2: but I mean, just the I mean, the shit and
Speaker 2: probability of this victory is just summed up by two things.
Speaker 2: You've mentioned that Mitchell santon is the key bowler. He
Speaker 2: took twenty percent of his Test wickets in three point
Speaker 2: five percent of his Tests, Like that's that's insanity. And
Speaker 2: the fact that Kaan Williamson was absent, so our best
Speaker 2: player by a country mile is not there. And Mitchell
Speaker 2: Santa is just boldest to victory in India. It's Yeah,
Speaker 2: if you're not scratching your head about that, then you
Speaker 2: know there's something wrong with it. But he what suited
Speaker 2: him him and Sunda were the tallest spinners.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, quite tall.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he is very tall, but he bodies annoying.
Speaker 2: He bowls more darty and flat, whereas Sunda and Santanna,
Speaker 2: with the growing up in white ball cricket, had more
Speaker 2: had different arm trajectories, They had different revolutions on the ball,
Speaker 2: different arts, and as it turned out, tall spinners who
Speaker 2: bowl with a bit of loop were twice as effective
Speaker 2: as your more darting spinners, which normally is the way
Speaker 2: to go in India.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, the slow of the delivery, the more
Speaker 1: difficult it was, wasn't it. It was those guys that were
Speaker 1: darting it in that didn't have quite the same success.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were betting the bat, but only on the
Speaker 2: outside of Yes, they weren't a triple threat.
Speaker 1: Was And I loved Santner's variation. Paul Forward. I believe
Speaker 1: that was the third best bowling of a New Zealand
Speaker 1: bowler in Test history.
Speaker 3: You had Lepatel Santana.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but she's talk about a surprise and maybe
Speaker 1: you know, do you think that Santana will go on
Speaker 1: from there? That will really give him some confidence?
Speaker 5: Yes, I do actually, Yeah, as you say, third best
Speaker 5: bowling figures for New Zealand also the third best bowling
Speaker 5: figures in India of all time behind aj S Battel
Speaker 5: and unbelievable bowling performance from Ian both of them. I
Speaker 5: think it was a nineteen eighty when he scored our
Speaker 5: century as well. I don't even think this was on TV.
Speaker 5: And this was one of those series where him and
Speaker 5: Derek Underwood would go out and get wasted at the
Speaker 5: pub and then he would turn up and he went
Speaker 5: out with a couple of journals. The journos didn't make
Speaker 5: it to the media box the next day, and both
Speaker 5: of them out there hitting a century after drinking brandy,
Speaker 5: and he was saying that he at one point he
Speaker 5: made the journalist stand on a table, eat a piece
Speaker 5: of chicken, drink some brandy and recite part of the
Speaker 5: Gideon's Bible and he fell off the table. So possibly,
Speaker 5: I don't know if that's how Santa celebrated, but yeah,
Speaker 5: look it was sensational and yeah, changes of pace gutsy
Speaker 5: as well. You know, like when he was starting to
Speaker 5: get bomb for a couple of six as he was
Speaker 5: slowing his bowling down, which I thought was just fantastic,
Speaker 5: showed that that confidence had already come through. Yeah, changes
Speaker 5: of angle. You mentioned his height, Yeah, really did it
Speaker 5: encourage got the batsmen into those indecisive positions, and they
Speaker 5: were prodding and not quite sure about where Well they
Speaker 5: knew where the ball was going to be, but they
Speaker 5: didn't know exactly what it was going to do. Absolutely
Speaker 5: superb And I love that little period where Pant and
Speaker 5: Coali were together in the second innings and there's a
Speaker 5: runout and who's at the end of the runout none
Speaker 5: other than Santana massive hair ruffles, and then pretty soon
Speaker 5: after he gets Coli out ow we w in a raging, tantrum,
Speaker 5: sensational little period.
Speaker 4: I just thought it was magic. I loved it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I loved the batter with Joe's well too. I mean
Speaker 2: that was just a let cricket. And how good is
Speaker 2: that kid?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Shit, he's good. Hey he is. He's like a prince
Speaker 1: out there, you know what I mean. And he smacked
Speaker 1: that sex that he had off Salvi was it the
Speaker 1: second ball?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just went, oh, here we go, it's bunkers.
Speaker 1: That was an insane blow.
Speaker 5: I was going to say, I think there's something interesting
Speaker 5: about that as well, Like when Joseel got that seventy
Speaker 5: seven off sixty five, and then there was.
Speaker 4: The Judasia Ashwind partnership. I was I was worried. I was.
Speaker 5: I was genuinely worried because it just feels like in
Speaker 5: this series, India haven't really fired a shot with the
Speaker 5: bat and I was just worried that they were going
Speaker 5: to do one of those horrible come from behind victories
Speaker 5: and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 4: Yes, I've been thinking about it.
Speaker 5: And Dylan, I think you asked whether the reverse you
Speaker 5: were talking about whether the reverse sweep was the kryptonite
Speaker 5: to the Indian attack, and I'm sure you've got some
Speaker 5: thoughts on that. But I actually reckon that the kryptonite
Speaker 5: in this series is the fact that New Zealand is
Speaker 5: a really hard team to hate. I reckon the Indians
Speaker 5: are distracted by some of the IPL draft stuff going on.
Speaker 5: I reckon that all the speculation is around who's going
Speaker 5: to be picked in their squad to go to the
Speaker 5: border Gavasca series in Australia, and I just reckon they've
Speaker 5: just they've looked listless, they've looked a bit disinterested, a
Speaker 5: bit distracted, and I think New Zealand being a really
Speaker 5: hard team to hate, makes it really hard for India
Speaker 5: to get pumped up to play us, and it's worked beautifully.
Speaker 1: You know. Just on that front, listless, not particularly interested,
Speaker 1: sort of distracted. You know, who's sort of who I've
Speaker 1: been watching? Who I was watching in that test series,
Speaker 1: No Judasia. He seems to be having a good old time.
Speaker 1: He looks like he doesn't really care, and he's joking
Speaker 1: away and laughing and having a good time. But I
Speaker 1: think that's a really fair point. Let me put it
Speaker 1: to you both very quickly. Our greatest ever test series factory,
Speaker 1: I think it is.
Speaker 2: I think the two one against Australia and eighty five
Speaker 2: has always been held up as the benchmark. But look,
Speaker 2: I love that series. Had He was amazing, That was brilliant.
Speaker 2: Crowe was just starting to show how great a player
Speaker 2: he was going to be. But it was a this
Speaker 2: week Australian team. It really was. Hilditch, Robbie Kerr, Greg
Speaker 2: Richie Dave Gilbert, Bob holland the Simon I've done. All
Speaker 2: these guys are never going to go down as great
Speaker 2: Australian players. Kepler vessels, this is a as listless and
Speaker 2: as negative body languages row it might have displayed over
Speaker 2: the last couple of tests. This is a Bollywood Indian side.
Speaker 2: They are superstars. So this for me goes ahead of
Speaker 2: Australia and probably the England one Light six is there
Speaker 2: are thereabouts too, but this one for me is is
Speaker 2: the gold standard now here here.
Speaker 1: I agree Paul Ford.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like I I'm trying to think about the series
Speaker 5: that really kind of captured my imagination, which is maybe
Speaker 5: not the perfect kind of way of judging it, but yeah,
Speaker 5: that England versus New Zealand and nineteen ninety nine when
Speaker 5: England thought they were going to Polverize, I said, we were,
Speaker 5: you know, this young upstart team that basically went over
Speaker 5: there and pulled off a miracle. So yeah, that ninety nine. Yeah,
Speaker 5: those two series in eighty five eighty six, definitely massive,
Speaker 5: massive memories. I don't know if it counts as a series,
Speaker 5: but the World Test Championship wins that a series.
Speaker 4: Maybe not now.
Speaker 1: So bad nonsense, Now that is the peak.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's not a sta Yeah.
Speaker 5: So, but I was going to say a couple of
Speaker 5: honorable mentions. One Nel versus Pakistan in nineteen sixty nine.
Speaker 5: That was the first day of a series win. We've
Speaker 5: been trying to win a Test series for forty years.
Speaker 5: We'd lost thirty series in a row. That was quite
Speaker 5: a good one, just to chuck it in the mix.
Speaker 5: And the other one is the honorable mention has to
Speaker 5: go to the series was it in the I'm trying
Speaker 5: to remember what year it was. It was like nineteen
Speaker 5: sixty nine as well, the Hidley Howarth series when we
Speaker 5: were up, we were up in the Test match and
Speaker 5: then it rained. It was seventy India was seventy eight
Speaker 5: for seven chasing two hundred and sixty eight and.
Speaker 4: The groundsman just forgot to come to work that day.
Speaker 5: Graham Dowling was out there mopping water off the covers
Speaker 5: with his socks.
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Um, all right, so let's go to the third Test.
Speaker 1: Who cares? Really, we're already one. But the Indians will
Speaker 1: be shitting themselves are I can only imagine Dylan Cleaver,
Speaker 1: the press they're getting at the moment, and the Indians
Speaker 1: will be panicking.
Speaker 2: With us starting to talk about this Indian team like
Speaker 2: we've been talking about this New Zealand team since WTC.
Speaker 2: Are some of those rock stars starting to show their
Speaker 2: creases a little bit euro it's your Vera Coley's Jadejah Ashwyn.
Speaker 2: Is it time to phase them out and bring in
Speaker 2: the next crop of talents. And let's face it, India
Speaker 2: have probably got about a thousand yes.
Speaker 3: Parachutes straight into this team.
Speaker 2: And they would be testing quality standard, so they're getting
Speaker 2: a little bit of that. But do you know how
Speaker 2: I'm hardwired at the moment with this New Zealand team.
Speaker 2: I'm still hardwired to expect them to go to Mumbai
Speaker 2: and get their pants pulled down at k same and
Speaker 2: if they don't, then I'm still going to be pleasantly
Speaker 2: surprised and I'm going to be in here next week.
Speaker 3: Can you believe it? Can you believe they didn't get
Speaker 3: absolutely monstered by India?
Speaker 1: Again, mate, I am exactly the same. I think the
Speaker 1: rage of India is going to come pounding down on us.
Speaker 1: But also conversely, and I think this is what happened
Speaker 1: a little bit on the second Test, a pull forward.
Speaker 1: The pressure is all on them and we just need
Speaker 1: to keep playing our game and keep doing what we're doing.
Speaker 1: The pressure is all on.
Speaker 5: Them totally, totally, and look, India, it's extraordinary that we're
Speaker 5: talking about. Can New Zealand pull off a Test series
Speaker 5: whitewash against India?
Speaker 4: And India?
Speaker 5: I mean, I can't even believe that the words are coming,
Speaker 5: are spilling out beyond my teeth that I'm saying that.
Speaker 4: You know, it's just I just had a quick look.
Speaker 5: The only time India have ever lost every match of
Speaker 5: a series that's gone for more than one Test at
Speaker 5: home with a nineteen ninety nine two thousand when that
Speaker 5: was against South Africa. So wow's da let's dare to dream.
Speaker 5: I do note that the groundsman has said that he's
Speaker 5: put a sporting pitch in place, so expect a rank
Speaker 5: turn a sporting as one of those euphemistic doesn't it
Speaker 5: which so.
Speaker 4: Can?
Speaker 2: I also just know that Cain Williamson will not be there.
Speaker 2: There was some hope that he'd fly out and join
Speaker 2: the squad for either the second or third Test. Gary
Speaker 2: Steed said that Kane continues to show good signs but
Speaker 2: isn't quite ready to jump on a plane and join us.
Speaker 3: Well, things are looking promising.
Speaker 2: We think the best course of action is for him
Speaker 2: to stay in New Zealand and focus on the final
Speaker 2: part of his rehab. So he'll be good to go
Speaker 2: for England the first testingain Seguence about a month away.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I reckon? I reckon Kine would
Speaker 2: have been reluctant to go, just because he would have
Speaker 2: felt slightly fraudulent's the wrong word and possibly defamatory. But
Speaker 2: you know, Caine said sort of go. That's so over
Speaker 2: the top, modest and humble that he thought he might
Speaker 2: have thought that people felt he was gate crashing on
Speaker 2: someone else's success. So I reckon he's probably good to go.
Speaker 2: He just thought those guys have done it and why
Speaker 2: not just take an extra break?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. The World Test Cricket Championship points table India a
Speaker 1: top sixty two point eight two points, Australia second, Sri
Speaker 1: Lanka third, News in a fourth ten Test matches, five wins,
Speaker 1: five losses fifty percent best New Zealand. Can you end
Speaker 1: up on as an utterly improbable sixty four percent?
Speaker 4: India have a.
Speaker 1: Five match series in Australia, so they could suffer South
Speaker 1: Africa in a strong position and against the Bangers, and
Speaker 1: Bangers might actually be in pole position here. Paul Ford.
Speaker 5: Yes, they've got basically I think they need four wins
Speaker 5: in a drawer out of their remaining matches.
Speaker 4: So they need it, They need a few things to
Speaker 4: go their way. But yeah, so South Africa.
Speaker 5: Could storm through and have a bit of an underdog
Speaker 5: in the final, which would be good. But yeah, look
Speaker 5: it definitely adds another level of spice to the India
Speaker 5: Australia series.
Speaker 4: That's coming up in a few weeks.
Speaker 1: Well, that's going to be so good.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: England named their test squad to our fair Shaw's Ben Stokes,
Speaker 1: the Skipper, Riehann Armored, Gus Atkinson, Shower, Bash Basher, Jacob
Speaker 1: bethe Or, Harry Brook, Brydon Cass, Jordan Coxack Crawley, Ben
Speaker 1: duck At, Jack Leech, Olie Pope, Matthew Pots, Joe Roote,
Speaker 1: Ollie Stone, Chris Wokes.
Speaker 3: I reckon England are there for the taking.
Speaker 2: I don't have this, Oh god, I do not have
Speaker 2: the same sense of trepidation as when they came out
Speaker 2: here last time in the first flushes of basball. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying they'd be found out, particularly although clearly we
Speaker 2: can't produce the kind of wickets that Pakistan did that
Speaker 2: enable them to overturn a you know one all down
Speaker 2: and turned around to win to one. But there's some
Speaker 2: pretty unproving guys in that lineup. Jordan Cox is going
Speaker 2: to be the wicket keeper because their current wicker keeper
Speaker 2: Jamie Smith is on opportunity leave for this series. There's
Speaker 2: no Mark Wood. Ben Stakes looks a shadow of the cricketer.
Speaker 2: And I know I'm tempting faate to you, but he
Speaker 2: really does look like the shadow of a cricketer he
Speaker 2: was when he first got the captain see Jack Leech
Speaker 2: show Basher Arian armed. Are they a spin attack that's
Speaker 2: going to trouble kan Williamson?
Speaker 3: Well, not after we've what we've done in India and
Speaker 3: home conditions. I don't necessarily think they are.
Speaker 2: They are going to be heavily reliant on Duckett, Joe Root,
Speaker 2: Harry Brook and guys like Ollie Stone and look a good,
Speaker 2: very good cricketers.
Speaker 3: But I'm not feeling the same sense of dread as
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 4: Olli Pope's out of form too, But yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: I mean we've got cricketers out of form too, but
Speaker 1: you know, hey, yeah, just on that front, just just
Speaker 1: going right back to our side very briefly, are we
Speaker 1: in agreement that Matt Henry is now our premiere stripe bowler.
Speaker 1: Paul Ford. Yes, okay, good, followed by O'Rourke. I think
Speaker 1: that's another thing. He's just been fantastic. Your thoughts on
Speaker 1: the England side, Yeah, look.
Speaker 4: I think it's going to be interesting to see.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this guy Bethel is just one of these hunch
Speaker 5: players that the England selectors have thrown in the Max
Speaker 5: Born and Barbados has never scored a century in professional
Speaker 5: cricket and he's been picked as a batsman. So absolute
Speaker 5: roll of the dice there. Hopefully he's shit house. He's
Speaker 5: got a terrible hair, bleached blonde Jose, you'd hate him.
Speaker 4: They can tell.
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, I think someone like Chris Wolkes is going
Speaker 5: to be very good here in New Zealand. But yeah,
Speaker 5: long may the poor form of Olipope and Ben Starkes continue. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I think absolutely what Dylan said that Brook and Rope
Speaker 5: will do a lot of the heavy lifting. Joe Route
Speaker 5: what he's been out here nine times, He's had sixteen bats,
Speaker 5: he's scored two hundreds and averages fifty two point five.
Speaker 4: Not bad, not bad at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good stuff. I'll tell you what we're going to do.
Speaker 1: I'm going to take a quick break at this point
Speaker 1: and come back in time for Dylan Cleavers. Who am I?
Speaker 1: Welcome back and it's time for Dylan Cleavers. Who am I?
Speaker 1: It's Dylan Cleavers, who am I?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Thanks guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a while since i' dad and I
Speaker 2: had to dig back in the memory banks to see
Speaker 2: who it was, and thankfully we had a reader that
Speaker 2: identified that it was Andy Roberts, who was an absolute
Speaker 2: cult hero.
Speaker 3: J I've got the name of the winner.
Speaker 2: You've shut the name off this photo here, Paul. But
Speaker 2: it's it's the ones that went all the time. Lucky,
Speaker 2: isn't it Lucky in his dad.
Speaker 4: Lucky and his dad with the great Wanger.
Speaker 2: Yea, it was Andy Roberts, not the antiguan Andy Robts,
Speaker 2: but the very own Tierra born Andy Roberts, who was
Speaker 2: an absolute Indy stalwart and who sadly passed away when
Speaker 2: he had a heart attack well out on a run
Speaker 2: in Wellington.
Speaker 4: That is such bad luck.
Speaker 5: I mean not that certainly the heart attack, but for sure,
Speaker 5: but it's such bad luck to be a good cricketer
Speaker 5: at international level. And there's another guy who's an absolute
Speaker 5: worldy with the same name as you just to run
Speaker 5: full interference on your whole career.
Speaker 4: And that's what happened with ADG.
Speaker 5: Roberts from Northern Districts and Anderson Montgomery Everton Roberts, the
Speaker 5: ferocious Andy Roberts from the West Indies.
Speaker 4: That's shit out.
Speaker 2: Luck anyway, moving on to this week's Who Am I.
Speaker 2: I was born into a cricketing family, with dad playing
Speaker 2: seven first class matches, a number that would have been
Speaker 2: likely higher were it not for a pesky global frakka
Speaker 2: circle nineteen thirty nine to forty five. I had a
Speaker 2: great uncle who also who umpired in Test cricket, and
Speaker 2: a second cousin who played first class cricket and was
Speaker 2: a tank driver in the not in the Great War,
Speaker 2: in the Second World War and fought at Monte Casino.
Speaker 2: Enough about them, though, I was a better cricketer by
Speaker 2: some distance, having played close to two hundred first class matches,
Speaker 2: with more than a quarter of them Tests. I'd beat
Speaker 2: a well worn path through Auckland Grammar into the Test
Speaker 2: team at a young age and was really challenged from
Speaker 2: my spot in the middle order for the next decade plus.
Speaker 2: I was a stroke maker, a blue eyed boy, wonder
Speaker 2: who never quite fulfilled my potential. Though I played critical
Speaker 2: roles in places like Pakistan and the West Indies during
Speaker 2: New Zealand's ascent to cricket and credibility. My career ended
Speaker 2: just as New Zealand's took off, and in some ways
Speaker 2: I was superseded by another blue Eye Grammar boy. But
Speaker 2: he never got to play against George Best, did he?
Speaker 3: Who am I?
Speaker 2: Ah?
Speaker 1: Here you go? Very good? Send your answers to where
Speaker 1: Paul Ford.
Speaker 5: Flick as an email to b YC at Basebrigade dot
Speaker 5: co dot Nz or slide into the DMS for the
Speaker 5: Base Brigade or the Alternative Commentary collective on Instagram or facy.
Speaker 1: Great staff mate. Now it's time for Paul Forward's Cricket
Speaker 1: Violence Corner. Paul Forwards Cricket violence Corner.
Speaker 5: Troubled Former Australian T twenty slogger Luke pomers Batch has
Speaker 5: successfully pleaded for his freedom after facing prison for assaulting
Speaker 5: a security guard who asked him if he had intended
Speaker 5: buying anything at a Perth pharmacy. Pomasback reacted by punching
Speaker 5: the worker twice in the chest and he fell over.
Speaker 5: Back in two thousand and seven, he was the car
Speaker 5: park call up kit the toast of Western Australian cricket
Speaker 5: after blasting his way into international contention and getting pulled
Speaker 5: out of the Whacker car park when he was at
Speaker 5: the ground as a punter to make his Australian debut. Astonishingly,
Speaker 5: he was currently banned from playing for Western Australia at
Speaker 5: the time because of his drinking habits. Disciplinary issues continue
Speaker 5: to plague Pomis Batch throughout his playing career, and it
Speaker 5: got worse once his career was over. In twenty twenty one,
Speaker 5: he was told he could be heading to prison for
Speaker 5: a string of South Perth burglaries stolen golf clubs. No less,
Speaker 5: he was then charged with the bizarre theft of an
Speaker 5: electric scooter from a man who was pushing it along
Speaker 5: a street in Como. Pomas Batch punched him, pinched the
Speaker 5: scooter and then scarpeed. He was later stopped by police
Speaker 5: later in the day with the scooter in the.
Speaker 4: Back of his car.
Speaker 1: God He received a.
Speaker 5: Twelve month suspension for the latest incident, twelve months suspended,
Speaker 5: eight month prison term and he was fined one thousand
Speaker 5: dollars that will be into the pocket of the security guard.
Speaker 4: He is also attending substance abuse counseling.
Speaker 2: He sounds like another Perth sporting legend. Who's the AFL
Speaker 2: guy who constantly ben cousins who constantly.
Speaker 3: Got in trouble like that too? Yes, what is it
Speaker 3: about Perth in Napier?
Speaker 1: Well, there you go New Zealand and the rest of
Speaker 1: the world. That's the end of our podcast today. What's
Speaker 1: going on with the Bounce there, Dylan Cleaver.
Speaker 2: The Bounces fired up the wheel again after after a
Speaker 2: bit of an absence while overseas. Yeah, we're all over that.
Speaker 2: Cricket and Pune. What a fantastic day and some of
Speaker 2: the response I've got to that the piece I wrote
Speaker 2: post Poune has been fantastic. So thank you all to
Speaker 2: have jumped on board lately. Dylancleaver dot subsect dot com.
Speaker 1: It's free good stuff mate. Well listen, thanks for taking
Speaker 1: the time to listen to this podcast. We'll be back
Speaker 1: same time, same place next week. Until then, we'll see
Speaker 1: you later.