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Speaker 1: Live from the Export Beer Garden Studios. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: the BYC and before we begin, we must apologize to

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Speaker 1: our legions of listeners for being absent at the wheel

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Speaker 1: and one of the most extraordinary fortnights in New Zealand

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Speaker 1: cricket history. It was an unfortunate combination of holidays and

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Speaker 1: overseas travel. But we're here now to reflect upon the

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Speaker 1: almost unbelievable results of both our men and women cricketers.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, I'm still struggling to get my head

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Speaker 1: around what has occurred. To say, it runs completely against

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Speaker 1: the tide as an understatement, and I'm grateful to have

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Speaker 1: my colleagues here today to make sense of it all.

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Speaker 1: So let's get into it. And Dylan Cleaver, boyo boyo,

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Speaker 1: boyo boy you must feel stupid, um, but let's start

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Speaker 1: off with the women winning the T twenty World Cup.

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Speaker 1: I mean extrawd. Yeah, there is no way in Haydyes,

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Speaker 1: I would have thought they even had a glimmer of

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Speaker 1: a chance given their run up to that tournament. And

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Speaker 1: then bang may win the tournament.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that'd be harp hound in pool play. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I thought they'd fall over to India and Australia, which

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Speaker 2: they did actually fall over to Australia.

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Speaker 3: And that would be all. She wrote.

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Speaker 2: I have to say I did know that I was

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Speaker 2: going away to Vietnam during this time, and I did

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Speaker 2: look at the schedule and my confession he had all

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Speaker 2: our listeners minfession as I thought, oh well, I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to miss so imagine my shock as I was

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Speaker 2: refreshing the crick inop furiously from Hochi Min City to

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Speaker 2: see the White Ferns win that tournament.

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Speaker 3: Just the short score board for the final. They play South.

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Speaker 2: Africa in the final, which was fortunate, which we'll get to.

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Speaker 2: They scored one hundred and fifty eight for five, with

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Speaker 2: Melly Kerr top scoring with forty three from thirty eight,

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Speaker 2: Halliday brookel thirty eight from twenty eight and the veteran

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Speaker 2: Susie Bads who has become a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: viral star since that world cap thirty two from thirty one.

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Speaker 2: And I have to say South Africa never looked in

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Speaker 2: the races no during that chase. I have caught up

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Speaker 2: with the game bull boye Balls since I've returned New

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Speaker 2: Zealand bowling execution and plans were superb. South Africa won

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Speaker 2: twenty six for nine. Melly Kerr the star of the

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Speaker 2: show three for twenty four and not far behind Rosemary

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Speaker 2: Mayor with three for twenty five. Just a really professional

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Speaker 2: performance in both the semi and the final. The semi

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Speaker 2: get a little bit squeaky against Westerndys with Simsey Bates

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Speaker 2: having to bowl the last over, But again I never

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Speaker 2: and the hindsight is perfect vision, right, But I never

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Speaker 2: got the sense that the White fans were anything but

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Speaker 2: ahead of the game, and certainly that was the case

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Speaker 2: for the final, where they were just they were the

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Speaker 2: best team.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, pull forward. Where the bloody hell did that come from?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Well I was going to say, were you and I

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Speaker 5: of course just around your way because Dylan was a way.

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Speaker 5: We were keen to watch all of these games and

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Speaker 5: do podcasts, but Dylan let us down and we just

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Speaker 5: had to cave in. But you know what a selfless

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Speaker 5: act from the three of us to be away and

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Speaker 5: coaxing what has been just an unbelievable couple of weeks.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the White Ferns World.

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Speaker 5: Cup win is it's just blows my mind. I mean,

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Speaker 5: never in a million years did I think that we

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Speaker 5: would if we won a Cricket World Cup, that the

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Speaker 5: first Cricket World Cup that we'd win would be the

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Speaker 5: White fans.

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Speaker 4: It's just unreal.

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Speaker 5: You know, even today they're ranked fourth in the world

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Speaker 5: and you know every World Cup you need it a

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Speaker 5: little bit of luck. But they played really, really bloody well,

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Speaker 5: and you know, to be fair, going into that tournament,

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Speaker 5: I think they'd lost eleven in a row. They'd lost

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Speaker 5: two out of nineteen games in twenty twenty four. To

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Speaker 5: be fair, that was against Australia in England. But you know,

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Speaker 5: those are the teams that we're expecting to come up against.

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Speaker 4: And have to get over the top of.

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Speaker 5: And in the end we did have to do that,

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Speaker 5: and that the draw and I'm not playing it down.

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Speaker 5: I'm just saying it just worked out beautifully for us

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Speaker 5: and we weren't alone and thinking that. I was reading

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Speaker 5: a thing on Newsroom which said how before the tournament,

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Speaker 5: Sophie Devine was dialing into a media call. There were

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Speaker 5: two media on the call, one from Newsroom. I don't

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Speaker 5: know who the other one was, but you know, this

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Speaker 5: was massively, massively unexpected and how fantastic for players like

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Speaker 5: well in particular for Susi Baits and Sophie Devine who've

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Speaker 5: basically dedicated half of their lives to playing for this team,

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Speaker 5: for them to inspire the next generation. And I loved

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Speaker 5: hearing a mereily A cur talking about how when she

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Speaker 5: was nine years old watching them on TV. I think

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Speaker 5: they lost that twenty ten final. I think it was

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Speaker 5: in the last over, basically off the last ball, and

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Speaker 5: what a great redemption act.

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Speaker 4: That is sensational, sensational for them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think to say, in our defense, if

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Speaker 1: you looked at the form guide Dylan in terms of

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Speaker 1: you know, what was what they what they would performed,

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Speaker 1: they were bringing to the tournament, we were completely within

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Speaker 1: our rights to say wow, you know, and I remember

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Speaker 1: the discussions we were having about the White fans, and

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Speaker 1: you know, none of us really had an answer and

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Speaker 1: it just seemed like they were on a downward spiral.

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Speaker 1: And so therefore it just makes this achievement of theirs

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Speaker 1: all the more significant.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it does.

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Speaker 2: And just a quick point, New Zealand, the White Fans

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Speaker 2: have won a World Cup before, but not a Teach

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Speaker 2: twenty World Cup. So this is the first Teach twenty

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Speaker 2: World Cup we won. But I think maybe we got

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Speaker 2: a false sense of their hopelessness because of that. As

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Speaker 2: Paul mentioned, the fact that all we played over the

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Speaker 2: last twelve eily month seems to be Australia or England, true,

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Speaker 2: who are very very good teams, who are highly resourced.

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Speaker 2: Granted you should never lose that many games. I mean,

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Speaker 2: teach when he is seen as that kind of game

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Speaker 2: can even up this song exactly because of the format,

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Speaker 2: and they never seem to work when we were playing

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Speaker 2: Australia or England.

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Speaker 3: But perhaps they learned enough.

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Speaker 2: And the thing that was really heartening about this tournament,

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Speaker 2: and I really hope becomes the way forward for the

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Speaker 2: White fans, is that it wasn't just Sophie, Susie and

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Speaker 2: Mellie Kerr. In fact, Sophie Devine didn't have a great tournament.

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Speaker 2: I think she might have made one significant contribution with

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Speaker 2: the bat. Obviously your leadership was important, Obviously she's still

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Speaker 2: a talismanic figure for that team, but actual playing performance

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Speaker 2: wasn't that strong. And players that I've been borderline critical

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Speaker 2: of the management keeping in and just letting them fail

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Speaker 2: and fail and fail without seeming any accountability, have actually

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Speaker 2: started to repay that faith and George Plumoer being head

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Speaker 2: of the class there with a number of really good

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Speaker 2: contributions with the bat. That's got to continue. Brookli a

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Speaker 2: good player, that's.

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Speaker 3: Continue.

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Speaker 2: Rosemere, the Spinners, Fan Jonas and eating Carson.

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Speaker 3: Eating Carson I thought was terrific.

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Speaker 2: So there is I know, it seems funny to talk

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Speaker 2: about green shoots when you've actually just gone and done

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Speaker 2: the thing that you've achieved it that you really.

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Speaker 3: Want to do.

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Speaker 2: But there's actually green shoots there for sustained success.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's important.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think that's that was the sort of

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Speaker 1: thing that we were discussing, where were the green shoots

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Speaker 1: in terms of this white Furan side. And you know,

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Speaker 1: on reflection pull forward, maybe in hindsight, you know the

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Speaker 1: fact that they were playing England and Australia probably considered

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Speaker 1: the two best sides. We got it flogging, but maybe

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Speaker 1: we did get some learnings and we were in the

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Speaker 1: in the fire the whole time and that sort of

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Speaker 1: benefited us in the long run.

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Speaker 5: Built some callousies. Do you think Jason may be maybe

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Speaker 5: a bit tough thing? Yeah, Look, I think with hindsight,

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Speaker 5: as you say, certainly didn't feel like that. At the time,

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Speaker 5: it felt like we were just getting beaten up. But yeah,

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Speaker 5: there's a method to the madness. And yeah, when when

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Speaker 5: you see those players like Georgia Plummer, Eden Carson fran

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Speaker 5: Jonas another one as he gazed the wicket keeper just

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Speaker 5: to share unadulterated joy, well, what they achieved was infectious

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Speaker 5: and amazing and yeah.

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Speaker 3: And they know how to do it now.

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Speaker 5: I think, yeah, there's this built and there's a confidence

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Speaker 5: that's going to come with us. I mean, obviously throughout

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Speaker 5: the tournament that has built and built and built. But

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Speaker 5: you know, they talked about, you know, the coaching staff,

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Speaker 5: Susie Bates, just massively defensive about their team, you know,

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Speaker 5: for the whole year, saying now it's going to be okay,

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Speaker 5: stop worrying about it. We've got faith in the players.

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Speaker 5: We're going to keep picking them. We don't care what

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Speaker 5: anybody else thinks. And they've been absolutely vindicated. And you know,

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Speaker 5: we've talked before about that intent with the bat and

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Speaker 5: it was there, I mean from that first game against

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Speaker 5: India where they basically we're going to go out and

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Speaker 5: try and score one hundred and sixty runs in every

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Speaker 5: game and they went out of that first game and

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Speaker 5: got one hundred and sixty. You know, it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: it really felt like something had changed, the confidence had come.

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Speaker 5: They had a nice warm up victory against South Africa

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Speaker 5: and then it all just came together beautifully in that

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Speaker 5: game against India. Dylan, you mentioned Sophie Devine not having

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Speaker 5: not a blinding tournament with the bat, but lots of

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Speaker 5: amazing field changes, obviously an inspirational leader and all of

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Speaker 5: those sorts of things, and absolutely crucial fifty seven off

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Speaker 5: thirty six, and that went against India two, which really

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Speaker 5: set the tone for the tournament.

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Speaker 1: And you have to maybe argue, Dylan, cleve of vindication

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Speaker 1: for the coach who you were bagging relentlessly, Vindication for

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Speaker 1: sticking with it, sticking with the team.

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Speaker 2: Absolute vindication in terms of you benchmark yourselves on your

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Speaker 2: performance and pinnacle events. Yes, in a World Cup as

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Speaker 2: a pinacle event. I guess that leads into this sort

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Speaker 2: of same question as it worth the pain that you've endured.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't that long ago where it felt

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Speaker 2: like a rain cloud follow the New Zealand team all

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Speaker 2: throughout their fifty over World Cup which they hosted and

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Speaker 2: they were pretty bang average.

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Speaker 3: It is it worth going through all that for these spikes?

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Speaker 2: I think in the moment you have to say, yes,

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Speaker 2: it probably is, sure, but I don't. At the same time,

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Speaker 2: just to contradict myself, I don't think we can go

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Speaker 2: into that dip again. No, the lows can't be as

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Speaker 2: low as they were to get to that kind of high.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think too. You know, just the fact that

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Speaker 1: they've achieved this is going to be a massive, massively

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Speaker 1: significant to the side because they know they can do it,

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Speaker 1: and that's going to build confidence. You know, there is

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Speaker 1: and this is not just to do with the women,

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Speaker 1: it's also to do with the men. From my own

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Speaker 1: point of view, I go T twenty World Cups. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it is a massive achievement. How do New Zealand

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Speaker 1: Cricket capitalize on this, Paul four? Because you know, obviously

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Speaker 1: there's going to be some real enthusiasm out there now

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Speaker 1: for young female players out there seeing the World champions

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Speaker 1: and going, oh, I want a part of that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Well, they've talked about the method and the approach that

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Speaker 5: they've taken to this tournament. They've been trying to set

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Speaker 5: the team up for a for a long future. I

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Speaker 5: think of the words that they've talked about and given

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Speaker 5: the players they've backed. They've backed the players to the

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Speaker 5: help throughout the tournament over the past twelve months. So

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Speaker 5: you'd hope that lots of confidence would come with that. Look,

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Speaker 5: I how first of all, I reckon we should pay

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Speaker 5: a few more teams that are a bit shitter than

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Speaker 5: maybe the two best teams.

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Speaker 4: In the world. I reckon that would be a really

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Speaker 4: good start. I think that.

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Speaker 5: Everyone that loves cricket should remind our best and brightest

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Speaker 5: and most fantastic young sportswoman that choosing cricket as a

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Speaker 5: career is a pretty bloody decent career these days, you know,

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Speaker 5: it's not like the old days. I think two of

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Speaker 5: our top five earners cricket players, merely Kerr and Sophie Devine,

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Speaker 5: just as an example, So you know, there's a genuine

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Speaker 5: career there to pursue. And you know, I think that's

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Speaker 5: a big thing. I reckon getting the players out and

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Speaker 5: about just so important. You know, you can't be what

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Speaker 5: you can't see and all that kind of stuff. And look,

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Speaker 5: I was looking at the schedule and it's pretty tough.

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Speaker 5: We've got the Aussies here for three ODI eyes, but

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Speaker 5: it's right before Christmas, so that's going to be a

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Speaker 5: bit of a tough cell. But there's some t twenties

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Speaker 5: in late March against the Australians that I think should

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Speaker 5: be shaping up as a real pinnacle event for women's

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Speaker 5: cricket in New Zealand, and it would be great to

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Speaker 5: see the country get behind the team and see if

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Speaker 5: they can pull off another miracle against their old nemesis.

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Speaker 2: I think the point about asking about how Ncincy you

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Speaker 2: are going to leverage this is critical for the future

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Speaker 2: of the women's game here. Paul is absolutely right and

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Speaker 2: mentioning that it's a genuine career pathway. Now, I think

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Speaker 2: it's an easier career pathway than nepple, which has always

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Speaker 2: been the most popular sport with talents and female athletes. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and it's a more easier on your body career pathway

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Speaker 2: than either of the rugby coats, although they are exploding

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Speaker 2: in popularity as well. If you're a talented young female

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Speaker 2: sports person, you can be looking out at the WPL

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Speaker 2: where you can get salaries and the six figure salaries.

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Speaker 3: You can get. You're looking at the women's.

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Speaker 2: Big Bash, which is you know, high five figure for

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Speaker 2: a couple of months work. There's the woman's hundred, which

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Speaker 2: is only going to get bigger and bigger. And even

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Speaker 2: you know, I know we kind of tend to look

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Speaker 2: at our own domestic crickets more village green type, but

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Speaker 2: the match fees equal to the men's for.

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Speaker 3: Our domestic game.

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Speaker 2: There is opportunities there for quite lucrative careers, so I'll

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Speaker 2: be taking there. But beyond that, I think it's critical

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Speaker 2: they get into more schools. Yes, and I'm not talking

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Speaker 2: about your Angie rus and your.

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Speaker 3: Epsom girls and your sin Hilders.

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Speaker 2: There is talent oozing out of our schools in New

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Speaker 2: Zealand that do not get access to cricket because cricket

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Speaker 2: is still relatively cost prohibitive in terms of gear, and

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Speaker 2: it's also seen and there's no easy way of putting this,

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Speaker 2: but it's it's seen largely as a white, middle class

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Speaker 2: sport that's changing a bit with the influx of South

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Speaker 2: Asian immigrants and that's great, but I still think with

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Speaker 2: New Zealand cricket has a job to do in breaking

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Speaker 2: down those barriers and those perceptions of cricket being that

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Speaker 2: kind of game for those kind of school girls.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, nice point, and once again congratulations to the

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Speaker 1: women for that outstanding result against all the odds. Having

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Speaker 1: said that, they've just gone down to one of the

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Speaker 1: series against India overnight, no meleicure, Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: But hey hey dangerously hungover?

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, probably they probably haven't landed the plane yet.

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Speaker 1: We'll give them. We'll give them that excuse, shall we.

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Speaker 1: But yes, no, superb achievement and well done to them.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be back shortly.

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Speaker 1: You discuss another phenomenal cricket happening New Zealand versus India

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Speaker 1: and India welcome back. Wow, I mean, Stone the Crows.

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Speaker 1: What the bloody hell is going on? We've just been

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Speaker 1: talking about the woman winning the T twenty World Cup

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Speaker 1: once again. Never in my wildest fantasies and dreams, Paul Forward,

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Speaker 1: would I have ever imagined New Zealand winning a Test

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Speaker 1: series in India. What the hell is going on?

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Speaker 5: I know, it's utterly extraordinary, and I keep going around

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Speaker 5: and around in my head as to which one was

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Speaker 5: more unexpected, the woman winning the World Cup.

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Speaker 4: Or this Test series victory.

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Speaker 5: And it's hard to separate them, to be honest, just

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Speaker 5: unreal and you know when you factor and it's the

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Speaker 5: first time we're ever a series in the World Test Championship.

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Speaker 5: We don't have Williamson, we don't have Henry because one

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Speaker 5: of his lovely glutes was strained. We sent Michael Bracewll home.

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Speaker 5: We were forced to pick Satna because he had a

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Speaker 5: side strain. Then we're up against in India who have

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Speaker 5: built in an utterly formidable fortress at home in eighteen series.

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Speaker 4: Twelve year long winning streak.

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Speaker 5: We've got a new captain in there and it's basically,

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Speaker 5: you know, just taken just taken over. There's contract juggling

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Speaker 5: and players that aren't contracted and all that sort of

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Speaker 5: shenanigans is in full swing. We've just been drubbed in

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Speaker 5: Sri Lanka and we've got a whole lot of blokes.

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Speaker 5: We talked about it on this podcast about how poor

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Speaker 5: so many of our players form. The form that they

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Speaker 5: were in was shit house. It's just extraordinary. And the

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Speaker 5: other thing about it, it's all of those words I

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Speaker 5: said that start with un but it's also really uncontroversial win.

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Speaker 5: We were utterly dominant. It's not a book. It wasn't

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Speaker 5: some miraculous one off performance by one bloke lots of contribution.

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Speaker 4: Sure, center was fantastic. I'm sure we'll talk about that

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Speaker 4: in a minute. But it wasn't.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't a fluke. And yeah, I just I just

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Speaker 5: it's mind blowing unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's one of the more extraordinary facets of this

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Speaker 1: for me, is that we were dominant. We didn't just

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Speaker 1: when we were dominant, and you know, I thought after

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Speaker 1: the first test, I'll be honest, and we caught them

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Speaker 1: on the hot.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was we got lucky with the condition.

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Speaker 1: With the conditions in that first test. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was a very damp, kind of weird wicket which suited

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Speaker 1: our quicks, Henry Bold magnificently. We caught them on the hot.

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Speaker 1: And now we're going to get our asses handed to

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Speaker 1: us in Pune. And quite the contrary, we solidified even more.

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Speaker 1: And in the face of that, Dylan Cleaver, the Indians

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Speaker 1: crumbled that their first innings batting display was woeful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and let me just say, like if I had

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Speaker 2: gone to a darkness retreat rather than Vietnam and I

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Speaker 2: popped out of the darkness retreat and someone had told me, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're off to one KDI for the third Test. As

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Speaker 2: a dead rubber, I would have gone, oh, yeah, of

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Speaker 2: course it is, yeah, bigger, yes you too, nil down,

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Speaker 2: let's hope we can save some face in Mumbai. But

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Speaker 2: instead it's just been a series of extraordinary days of cricket.

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Speaker 2: As Paul mentioned and yourself, it's not just the fact

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Speaker 2: that we caught in here on the hop and that

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Speaker 2: first Test maybe got a little bit lucky with their conditions.

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Speaker 2: Were still bloody well outplayed them, yes, no matter. I

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Speaker 2: mean it was Rowit that won the toss and chose

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Speaker 2: to bat. We completely outplayed them. We played brilliantly. There

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Speaker 2: we go to Pune and they have scrubbed the wicket

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Speaker 2: at both ends, like they have literally handmade that wicket

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Speaker 2: for home town strengths. Yeah, we've won the toss, but

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Speaker 2: that's only one part of it. We've then gone on

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Speaker 2: and I thought maybe two five nine from being in

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Speaker 2: a reasonable position was maybe forty to fifty run sure

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Speaker 2: too light, Yes, but yeah, I mean we all saw

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Speaker 2: Mitch Santa coming from mile the way, didn't we.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, come on, come on, well.

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Speaker 1: Listen, you know because I I've been going through it

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Speaker 1: in my head because we've talked about the side a lot, obviously,

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Speaker 1: and my thought was, where where has this come from?

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Speaker 1: Because I don't understand what the hell's happening. I want

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Speaker 1: to make a reference, actually, Paul forward to that first

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Speaker 1: Test match and that for our first innings when we

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Speaker 1: were bowling. One of the things that I think was

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Speaker 1: a vast improvement and one of the things that we

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Speaker 1: used to be known for was our fielding and the

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Speaker 1: field the catching in that first innings of that first

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Speaker 1: Test was exceptional.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I agree, and it had been shoddy in

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Speaker 5: Sri Lanka. Yes, it's the best way to describe it.

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Speaker 4: I think. Yeah, we were we caught.

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Speaker 5: I think there was one one missed chance I think

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Speaker 5: in that in that first innings. But yeah, when you

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Speaker 5: get when you're getting teams out for forty six, you're

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Speaker 5: taking a lot of catches, you know, let's be honest.

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Speaker 4: It was yeah, thank god.

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Speaker 5: Because it was inexplicable that it had got so bad

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Speaker 5: the fielding, so yeah, wonderful, wonderful to see that come

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Speaker 5: back in. But that was only one of the facets

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Speaker 5: that we were dominantant right Debating at the bowling as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I I want to ask you this question because

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Speaker 1: you know, with the change of captaincy, we were kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, we knew it was going to be lathamers.

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Speaker 1: I happen to think that Latham's a pretty good skipper.

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Speaker 1: I think he's kind of he strikes me as a

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Speaker 1: no nonsense, doesn't get too wound up about stuff. Do

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Speaker 1: you think Paul, you know, because he's usually been a

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Speaker 1: fill in scapper and now he's actually legitimately got you know,

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Speaker 1: the captaincy. How much of an influence do you think

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Speaker 1: that was in terms of our performance? Do you think

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Speaker 1: there has been a change of direction under him?

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Speaker 5: It's an interesting one and I've heard some speculation about this,

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Speaker 5: and I guess I don't really think a hell of

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Speaker 5: a lot was done differently. Frankly, I think that if

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Speaker 5: you put South and his captain, if you put Santner

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Speaker 5: and his captain, if you put Conway in as captain,

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Speaker 5: if you put Mitchell and as captain, you know or Latham,

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Speaker 5: you're going to end up with I think roughly about

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Speaker 5: the same. You've got the same resources as the same coaches.

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Speaker 5: I reckon the same general approach to how you win

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Speaker 5: Test cricket and so yeah, I'm not sure. I think

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Speaker 5: that maybe the strength of this team is that they

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Speaker 5: are all kind of come at it the same way.

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Speaker 5: The exception would probably be someone like glennhillips 'm not

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Speaker 5: quite sure what you'd get there, but yeah, look I

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Speaker 5: don't I don't think it was noticeable the shift, to

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Speaker 5: be honest now.

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Speaker 2: Because when Saudi was captain, Latham was frequently in his ear.

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Speaker 2: I noticed Saudi was frequently in Latham's ear. Caine obviously

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Speaker 2: not on this Indian tour, but chipping in from mid off,

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Speaker 2: I think there is one of the readers to my

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Speaker 2: bounced substack made a really good point actually, which I

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Speaker 2: want to get you guys thoughts on, because I think

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Speaker 2: it's I think he worded it very well. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to get a perfect but I'll paraphrase that. Clearly,

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Speaker 2: the team has moved and changed since the World Test

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Speaker 2: Championship through natural attrition and guys going off and doing

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Speaker 2: the T twenty circuit.

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Speaker 3: But there's still those three or four.

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Speaker 2: Senior guys around the team, and guys like Daryl Mitchell

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Speaker 2: that were coming into that environment before they won the

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Speaker 2: World Test Championship. That have that team culture DNA baked

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Speaker 2: into them. So sure they might not be as strong

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Speaker 2: an eleven now as they were back in those days,

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Speaker 2: but there's still enough tough cricketers.

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Speaker 3: There's enough cricketers that know how to win tough games.

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Speaker 2: They might not do it frequently as frequently as we'd like,

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Speaker 2: but it's still there. There's still a really good team culture.

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Speaker 2: There's still a really selfless team culture. And I think

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00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: we saw the selflessness of the way we battered in

435
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 2: those games, like people going out there and reverse sweeping

436
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: first ball highers shot not worried about their stats, but

437
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 2: all they know is that this is our plan. We've

438
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 2: got to put the Indian spinners off early. And it worked,

439
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 2: even if a couple of them looks silly from time

440
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: to time, and I think that's a really important part

441
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 2: of it. I'm not denigrating what Tom Nathan did at all,

442
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 2: because I think he's you know, you go to India,

443
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: you will do something no other New Zealand Skippers done.

444
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 2: You've done a magnificent job. But I think it is

445
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: more about the DNA of that team rather than specific

446
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: detailed tactics on the day. Although I think they got

447
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 2: them really well, and Gary Steed's got to get some

448
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 2: credit for that. And on that subject, actually got a

449
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: bit of correspondence. Sure if I could read to you

450
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 2: from Simon, and it's very well written correspondence, she says.

451
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 2: In the year sixteen hundred, Italian cyclist scientist, sorry cyclist scientists,

452
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 2: Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake by the Roman

453
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 2: Catholic Church for stating, among other things, that the Earth

454
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: was not the center of the universe, but in fact

455
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 2: one of several planets that revolve around the Sun would

456
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 2: burn and Gary Stead at the stake, as Jason Hoyt

457
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 2: has been proposing for about two years now, have been

458
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: an era of the same magnitude.

459
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 3: Love your work, guys, Well.

460
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: Hang on, I take issue with that. It was you

461
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: two that were bagging stead all the time. I said,

462
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, steady as she goes steady, I'm with you.

463
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: Um yeah, interesting. And we certainly had a plan against

464
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: the Indian spinners, and that was very plane to say.

465
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 3: It was a good plan.

466
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: And it was a good plan, you know. And funnily enough,

467
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: Washington Sunda, who I got seven to four in that

468
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 1: first innings, I thought initially was the least threatening of

469
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: the Indian bowlers paul Ford, but he was the one

470
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: that toppled us in the end.

471
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 3: Probably the one we planned for least too.

472
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 4: Yes, I was.

473
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 5: Gonna say it was a gutsy selection and they've got

474
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 5: x Sharpetel sitting in there.

475
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was.

476
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 5: He was in the squad for the first Test. Then

477
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 5: they brought Sunder in for the second Test and they

478
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 5: put Sunder ahead of act Shapatel, which just sort of

479
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 5: seemed bizarre. And I saw all sorts of criticism in

480
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 5: the Indian papers about that decision. Well that was vindicated

481
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 5: as well, I'd suggest. Yes, Sunda was, yeah, superb, but.

482
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 4: It was only the second best bowler in the match. Unbelievable.

483
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's look at the New Zealand badding there. You know,

484
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: Conways received a fair amount of criticism from Oscus's forms

485
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: not been greatful quite some time, and watching him bad

486
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 1: against Bumra is painful. It's a painful experience because him

487
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: mainly Yeah, and it's just like he has no clue

488
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: here of what the hell's going on, but he fought

489
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: through it. Seventy odd Ratch and Revenger.

490
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 4: I mean, we knew.

491
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: This guy was good. But Dylan, he has just really

492
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: stepped up and just looks a class act.

493
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, givin Conway, I would describe it as willed himself

494
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 2: to seventy, Yes, whereas Ratch and glided his way to

495
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 2: sixty four.

496
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,360
Speaker 1: It was like a completely different match when he came

497
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:26,959
Speaker 1: into player.

498
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, it's yeah Conway, I think I've mentioned

499
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: it so often now it's almost become a cliche. But

500
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 2: he's just become this enigma at the crease where you

501
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: get him a bit of whipped outside of stump and

502
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 2: he looks like the best player in the world. Yes,

503
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 2: you tack him up on his thighs and he looks

504
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 2: like a clubby.

505
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 3: Yes, it's just bizarre. But look, he's making a word

506
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: for him at the moment.

507
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 2: He got those cheap runs at the end of the

508
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 2: Street Ancor series which held him in good stead. He's

509
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: made vital contributions in both tests now, so I think

510
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: we can lay off dev yeah totally for a little while.

511
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: We'll give me a couple of test grace Like Tom

512
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 2: Lathan was the one that I was really concerned about, Yes,

513
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: and he ends up playing the pivotal winnings of the

514
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: match that second innings, eighty six was just incredibly vital.

515
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 2: This is a team that had fallen for about what

516
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: eighty something to spin in Sri Lanka the Test series.

517
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 2: There another kind of one hundred, one hundred and ten

518
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: all out in India. Right back in that match, Tom

519
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: Lathan took it away from them with eighty six, which

520
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 2: I've been thinking in my head, where does it rank

521
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 2: in the list of New Zealand Tests innings overseas. I've

522
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 2: probably got great Batch number one with one four six

523
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 2: not out at the Whacker that.

524
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: And this is only the Test that I've seen.

525
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: Obviously, I can't go back to Martin Dunnley getting a

526
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: double ten at Lord's or you know Stwey Dempster scoring

527
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: one hundred against England at the Base and all that

528
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: sort of thing. I can only judge what I see,

529
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 2: but I probably got great Batch still.

530
00:27:58,520 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 3: At number one.

531
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 2: Maybe Williamson's one hundred and forty at the Gabba was

532
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 2: a utter masterpiece. Crow one eight eight at the Gabba

533
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 2: and then Latham eighty six and Pune is right up there.

534
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: It's probably right up there with Ken's eighty at the

535
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: Oval and that series we won in England when he

536
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 2: came in at thirty nine for six and smashed eighty.

537
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys got other ones. McCallum

538
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 2: two hundred and two at Shajah and the Phil Hughes

539
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:33,719
Speaker 2: test was pretty special. But yeah, it's I rate it

540
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 2: so highly. I just think it was the epitome of

541
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 2: a captain's knocket.

542
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: Totally and I think you're right. Image Yeah, I'm just

543
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: choking to dear slowly and I think you're totally right.

544
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: I think it took the game away from India. That

545
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: was a decisive innings. And it's curious Paul Forward, because

546
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: when it comes to Tom Latham, I never really feel

547
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: like he's out of form for me. He's a pretty solid,

548
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: no nonsense kind of player, but he, you know, he

549
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: wasn't getting the scores and that was a crucial not

550
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: from the scapper.

551
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, defensive masterclass and looked upon very very favorably by

552
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 5: people that were at the ground as well, sort of saying,

553
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 5: you know, it was really bloody difficult conditions and incredible,

554
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 5: you know, an incredibly frustrating innings to be receiving. To

555
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 5: be on the other end of Yeah, Yeah, I'm not sure.

556
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 5: I guess The thing is with Latham, doesn't really feel

557
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 5: like there's anyone sort of beating down the door, so

558
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 5: he probably hasn't felt massively under pressure. And you do

559
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 5: get the sense that he would come right, particularly when

560
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 5: we get back to New Zealand, but certainly been a

561
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 5: long long time between drinks for him.

562
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 3: And it's had a problem that he's not under pressure.

563
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: Though, is that maybe has complacency crept in He doesn't

564
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: appear to be the sort of individual that would get complacent,

565
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: But no, we're talking two years without a ton twenty

566
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: nine innings and averaging less than thirty in that time.

567
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, maybe it goes back to that question

568
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 5: that jaysusked. You know, maybe the burden of the captaincy

569
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 5: is kind of the reverse for him and it's made him,

570
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 5: I don't know, knuckle down or or maybe you just

571
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 5: had some luck.

572
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 4: I don't know. It didn't feel like a lucky innings.

573
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 4: They did it and it was gretty and gutsy.

574
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: It was a terrific knock and I just wanted to

575
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: make the point that yesay, his form has been bad,

576
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: but I never get the he strikes me as a

577
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: very no nonsense, non hysterical kind of player who is

578
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: a very professional kind of cricketer. You go through trots,

579
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: you just keep going, you just keep working at your game.

580
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: I just want to get your because you're a big

581
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: fan of know Paul Forward. Just how good has Ratch

582
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: and Ravendra been? Because you know, he just looks poised out.

583
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: He looked class all the way through that series so far.

584
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, a couple of sublime knocks really and yeah, like

585
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 5: I just love watching him bad. He's turning into the

586
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 5: guy that you you know, you check the batting order

587
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 5: and you're desperate to get in front of the television

588
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 5: when you know that he's come in because you know

589
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 5: it's going to be something glorious to watch.

590
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:19,479
Speaker 4: You know.

591
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 5: As we've said before, not many players in New Zealand

592
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 5: have spent as much time in Indian conditions as Ratch

593
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 5: and Revenger. And he really does feel like he feels

594
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 5: very at home over there, and yeah, amazing. I think

595
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 5: he's top of the batting stats in the series to date.

596
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 5: That does not happen very often if you're an overseas player.

597
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 5: I think there's guys like Alistair Cook and Steve's Smith

598
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,719
Speaker 5: when they're going through these miraculous. Yeah, he's been absolutely

599
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 5: instrumental in both of those Test victories with those runs,

600
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 5: particularly in the actence of absence of Williamson, and again

601
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,479
Speaker 5: feels like maybe the gap that Williamson has left has

602
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 5: left some space, shifted the pressure onto the shoulders of

603
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 5: guys like Lathan and Riven during it's played into New

604
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 5: Zealand tens.

605
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: And I just want to just ship in terms of

606
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: our batsman, to shout out to will Young, you know,

607
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: good steering us home in that first Test match. It

608
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: was a it was a really courageous not and I

609
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: was so stoked for him. I was more stoked for

610
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: him than anyone else actually. And he's looking solid, he's

611
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: looking good, and even you know, the Indian commentators are going,

612
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,479
Speaker 1: why the hell is this guy's average only twenty six,

613
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: you know, and he's been up and down the order,

614
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: He's been dropped, he's been out, he's been in, he's

615
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: been out, he's been up and down. So I'm really

616
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: really well, yeah, you know, and I was stoked for him.

617
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: Now let's focus on the bowling and Santner, who is

618
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: not a Test match bowler according to Ian Smith, according

619
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: to most of us, Yeah, yeah, which which just surprised

620
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: me because I felt that Mitchell Santner has been bowling

621
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: quite well of late. Why is that? Why isn't he

622
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: succeeded in that front on the Test match level? Paul Dylan?

623
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 2: What? What?

624
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: What? What's the reason for that?

625
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: Maybe because others are seen as better, bigger turners of

626
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 2: the ball and better options overseas, so he kind of

627
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: gets the home Kish condition the Test because of his

628
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: handy batting and the fact that he's really good at

629
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,479
Speaker 2: tennis and golf and darts and things like that. So

630
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: but I mean, just the I mean, the shit and

631
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: probability of this victory is just summed up by two things.

632
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: You've mentioned that Mitchell santon is the key bowler. He

633
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: took twenty percent of his Test wickets in three point

634
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: five percent of his Tests, Like that's that's insanity. And

635
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: the fact that Kaan Williamson was absent, so our best

636
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: player by a country mile is not there. And Mitchell

637
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: Santa is just boldest to victory in India. It's Yeah,

638
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: if you're not scratching your head about that, then you

639
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 2: know there's something wrong with it. But he what suited

640
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: him him and Sunda were the tallest spinners.

641
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, quite tall.

642
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, he is very tall, but he bodies annoying.

643
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 2: He bowls more darty and flat, whereas Sunda and Santanna,

644
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: with the growing up in white ball cricket, had more

645
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 2: had different arm trajectories, They had different revolutions on the ball,

646
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: different arts, and as it turned out, tall spinners who

647
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 2: bowl with a bit of loop were twice as effective

648
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: as your more darting spinners, which normally is the way

649
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 2: to go in India.

650
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

651
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: Well, you know, the slow of the delivery, the more

652
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: difficult it was, wasn't it. It was those guys that were

653
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: darting it in that didn't have quite the same success.

654
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were betting the bat, but only on the

655
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: outside of Yes, they weren't a triple threat.

656
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: Was And I loved Santner's variation. Paul Forward. I believe

657
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: that was the third best bowling of a New Zealand

658
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: bowler in Test history.

659
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 3: You had Lepatel Santana.

660
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but she's talk about a surprise and maybe

661
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: you know, do you think that Santana will go on

662
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 1: from there? That will really give him some confidence?

663
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 5: Yes, I do actually, Yeah, as you say, third best

664
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 5: bowling figures for New Zealand also the third best bowling

665
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 5: figures in India of all time behind aj S Battel

666
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 5: and unbelievable bowling performance from Ian both of them. I

667
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 5: think it was a nineteen eighty when he scored our

668
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 5: century as well. I don't even think this was on TV.

669
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 5: And this was one of those series where him and

670
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 5: Derek Underwood would go out and get wasted at the

671
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 5: pub and then he would turn up and he went

672
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 5: out with a couple of journals. The journos didn't make

673
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 5: it to the media box the next day, and both

674
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 5: of them out there hitting a century after drinking brandy,

675
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 5: and he was saying that he at one point he

676
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 5: made the journalist stand on a table, eat a piece

677
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 5: of chicken, drink some brandy and recite part of the

678
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 5: Gideon's Bible and he fell off the table. So possibly,

679
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 5: I don't know if that's how Santa celebrated, but yeah,

680
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 5: look it was sensational and yeah, changes of pace gutsy

681
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 5: as well. You know, like when he was starting to

682
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 5: get bomb for a couple of six as he was

683
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 5: slowing his bowling down, which I thought was just fantastic,

684
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 5: showed that that confidence had already come through. Yeah, changes

685
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 5: of angle. You mentioned his height, Yeah, really did it

686
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 5: encourage got the batsmen into those indecisive positions, and they

687
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 5: were prodding and not quite sure about where Well they

688
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 5: knew where the ball was going to be, but they

689
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 5: didn't know exactly what it was going to do. Absolutely

690
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 5: superb And I love that little period where Pant and

691
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 5: Coali were together in the second innings and there's a

692
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 5: runout and who's at the end of the runout none

693
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 5: other than Santana massive hair ruffles, and then pretty soon

694
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 5: after he gets Coli out ow we w in a raging, tantrum,

695
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,240
Speaker 5: sensational little period.

696
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 4: I just thought it was magic. I loved it.

697
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

698
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 2: I loved the batter with Joe's well too. I mean

699
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: that was just a let cricket. And how good is

700
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: that kid?

701
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:02,919
Speaker 4: Yeah?

702
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: Shit, he's good. Hey he is. He's like a prince

703
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: out there, you know what I mean. And he smacked

704
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: that sex that he had off Salvi was it the

705
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: second ball?

706
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just went, oh, here we go, it's bunkers.

707
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: That was an insane blow.

708
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 5: I was going to say, I think there's something interesting

709
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 5: about that as well, Like when Joseel got that seventy

710
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 5: seven off sixty five, and then there was.

711
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 4: The Judasia Ashwind partnership. I was I was worried. I was.

712
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 5: I was genuinely worried because it just feels like in

713
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 5: this series, India haven't really fired a shot with the

714
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 5: bat and I was just worried that they were going

715
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 5: to do one of those horrible come from behind victories

716
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 5: and all that sort of thing.

717
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 4: Yes, I've been thinking about it.

718
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 5: And Dylan, I think you asked whether the reverse you

719
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 5: were talking about whether the reverse sweep was the kryptonite

720
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 5: to the Indian attack, and I'm sure you've got some

721
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 5: thoughts on that. But I actually reckon that the kryptonite

722
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 5: in this series is the fact that New Zealand is

723
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 5: a really hard team to hate. I reckon the Indians

724
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 5: are distracted by some of the IPL draft stuff going on.

725
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 5: I reckon that all the speculation is around who's going

726
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 5: to be picked in their squad to go to the

727
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 5: border Gavasca series in Australia, and I just reckon they've

728
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 5: just they've looked listless, they've looked a bit disinterested, a

729
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 5: bit distracted, and I think New Zealand being a really

730
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 5: hard team to hate, makes it really hard for India

731
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 5: to get pumped up to play us, and it's worked beautifully.

732
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: You know. Just on that front, listless, not particularly interested,

733
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: sort of distracted. You know, who's sort of who I've

734
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: been watching? Who I was watching in that test series,

735
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: No Judasia. He seems to be having a good old time.

736
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: He looks like he doesn't really care, and he's joking

737
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: away and laughing and having a good time. But I

738
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: think that's a really fair point. Let me put it

739
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 1: to you both very quickly. Our greatest ever test series factory,

740
00:38:58,480 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: I think it is.

741
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 2: I think the two one against Australia and eighty five

742
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,479
Speaker 2: has always been held up as the benchmark. But look,

743
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 2: I love that series. Had He was amazing, That was brilliant.

744
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: Crowe was just starting to show how great a player

745
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 2: he was going to be. But it was a this

746
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: week Australian team. It really was. Hilditch, Robbie Kerr, Greg

747
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 2: Richie Dave Gilbert, Bob holland the Simon I've done. All

748
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: these guys are never going to go down as great

749
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 2: Australian players. Kepler vessels, this is a as listless and

750
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: as negative body languages row it might have displayed over

751
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 2: the last couple of tests. This is a Bollywood Indian side.

752
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 2: They are superstars. So this for me goes ahead of

753
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 2: Australia and probably the England one Light six is there

754
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 2: are thereabouts too, but this one for me is is

755
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: the gold standard now here here.

756
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: I agree Paul Ford.

757
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, like I I'm trying to think about the series

758
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 5: that really kind of captured my imagination, which is maybe

759
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 5: not the perfect kind of way of judging it, but yeah,

760
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 5: that England versus New Zealand and nineteen ninety nine when

761
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 5: England thought they were going to Polverize, I said, we were,

762
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 5: you know, this young upstart team that basically went over

763
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 5: there and pulled off a miracle. So yeah, that ninety nine. Yeah,

764
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 5: those two series in eighty five eighty six, definitely massive,

765
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 5: massive memories. I don't know if it counts as a series,

766
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 5: but the World Test Championship wins that a series.

767
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 4: Maybe not now.

768
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: So bad nonsense, Now that is the peak.

769
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 3: Yes, it's not a sta Yeah.

770
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 5: So, but I was going to say a couple of

771
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 5: honorable mentions. One Nel versus Pakistan in nineteen sixty nine.

772
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 5: That was the first day of a series win. We've

773
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 5: been trying to win a Test series for forty years.

774
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 5: We'd lost thirty series in a row. That was quite

775
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 5: a good one, just to chuck it in the mix.

776
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 5: And the other one is the honorable mention has to

777
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 5: go to the series was it in the I'm trying

778
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 5: to remember what year it was. It was like nineteen

779
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 5: sixty nine as well, the Hidley Howarth series when we

780
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 5: were up, we were up in the Test match and

781
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 5: then it rained. It was seventy India was seventy eight

782
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 5: for seven chasing two hundred and sixty eight and.

783
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 4: The groundsman just forgot to come to work that day.

784
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 5: Graham Dowling was out there mopping water off the covers

785
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 5: with his socks.

786
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, yeah.

787
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 1: Um, all right, so let's go to the third Test.

788
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: Who cares? Really, we're already one. But the Indians will

789
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 1: be shitting themselves are I can only imagine Dylan Cleaver,

790
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: the press they're getting at the moment, and the Indians

791
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: will be panicking.

792
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 2: With us starting to talk about this Indian team like

793
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: we've been talking about this New Zealand team since WTC.

794
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 2: Are some of those rock stars starting to show their

795
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 2: creases a little bit euro it's your Vera Coley's Jadejah Ashwyn.

796
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 2: Is it time to phase them out and bring in

797
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 2: the next crop of talents. And let's face it, India

798
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 2: have probably got about a thousand yes.

799
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: Parachutes straight into this team.

800
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 2: And they would be testing quality standard, so they're getting

801
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 2: a little bit of that. But do you know how

802
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,879
Speaker 2: I'm hardwired at the moment with this New Zealand team.

803
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 2: I'm still hardwired to expect them to go to Mumbai

804
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: and get their pants pulled down at k same and

805
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 2: if they don't, then I'm still going to be pleasantly

806
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 2: surprised and I'm going to be in here next week.

807
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 3: Can you believe it? Can you believe they didn't get

808
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 3: absolutely monstered by India?

809
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: Again, mate, I am exactly the same. I think the

810
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: rage of India is going to come pounding down on us.

811
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: But also conversely, and I think this is what happened

812
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: a little bit on the second Test, a pull forward.

813
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: The pressure is all on them and we just need

814
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: to keep playing our game and keep doing what we're doing.

815
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: The pressure is all on.

816
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 5: Them totally, totally, and look, India, it's extraordinary that we're

817
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 5: talking about. Can New Zealand pull off a Test series

818
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 5: whitewash against India?

819
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 4: And India?

820
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 5: I mean, I can't even believe that the words are coming,

821
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 5: are spilling out beyond my teeth that I'm saying that.

822
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 4: You know, it's just I just had a quick look.

823
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 5: The only time India have ever lost every match of

824
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 5: a series that's gone for more than one Test at

825
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 5: home with a nineteen ninety nine two thousand when that

826
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 5: was against South Africa. So wow's da let's dare to dream.

827
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 5: I do note that the groundsman has said that he's

828
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 5: put a sporting pitch in place, so expect a rank

829
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 5: turn a sporting as one of those euphemistic doesn't it

830
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 5: which so.

831
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 4: Can?

832
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 2: I also just know that Cain Williamson will not be there.

833
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: There was some hope that he'd fly out and join

834
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 2: the squad for either the second or third Test. Gary

835
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 2: Steed said that Kane continues to show good signs but

836
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 2: isn't quite ready to jump on a plane and join us.

837
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 3: Well, things are looking promising.

838
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: We think the best course of action is for him

839
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 2: to stay in New Zealand and focus on the final

840
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: part of his rehab. So he'll be good to go

841
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 2: for England the first testingain Seguence about a month away.

842
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 2: Do you know what I reckon? I reckon Kine would

843
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 2: have been reluctant to go, just because he would have

844
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: felt slightly fraudulent's the wrong word and possibly defamatory. But

845
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,879
Speaker 2: you know, Caine said sort of go. That's so over

846
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 2: the top, modest and humble that he thought he might

847
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 2: have thought that people felt he was gate crashing on

848
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 2: someone else's success. So I reckon he's probably good to go.

849
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 2: He just thought those guys have done it and why

850
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 2: not just take an extra break?

851
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 3: Yeah.

852
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: Absolutely. The World Test Cricket Championship points table India a

853
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: top sixty two point eight two points, Australia second, Sri

854
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 1: Lanka third, News in a fourth ten Test matches, five wins,

855
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: five losses fifty percent best New Zealand. Can you end

856
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: up on as an utterly improbable sixty four percent?

857
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 4: India have a.

858
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: Five match series in Australia, so they could suffer South

859
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 1: Africa in a strong position and against the Bangers, and

860
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: Bangers might actually be in pole position here. Paul Ford.

861
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 5: Yes, they've got basically I think they need four wins

862
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 5: in a drawer out of their remaining matches.

863
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 4: So they need it, They need a few things to

864
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 4: go their way. But yeah, so South Africa.

865
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 5: Could storm through and have a bit of an underdog

866
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 5: in the final, which would be good. But yeah, look

867
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 5: it definitely adds another level of spice to the India

868
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 5: Australia series.

869
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:26,439
Speaker 4: That's coming up in a few weeks.

870
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: Well, that's going to be so good.

871
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 4: Now.

872
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,760
Speaker 1: England named their test squad to our fair Shaw's Ben Stokes,

873
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: the Skipper, Riehann Armored, Gus Atkinson, Shower, Bash Basher, Jacob

874
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: bethe Or, Harry Brook, Brydon Cass, Jordan Coxack Crawley, Ben

875
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: duck At, Jack Leech, Olie Pope, Matthew Pots, Joe Roote,

876
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: Ollie Stone, Chris Wokes.

877
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 3: I reckon England are there for the taking.

878
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: I don't have this, Oh god, I do not have

879
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 2: the same sense of trepidation as when they came out

880
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 2: here last time in the first flushes of basball. I'm

881
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: not saying they'd be found out, particularly although clearly we

882
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: can't produce the kind of wickets that Pakistan did that

883
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 2: enable them to overturn a you know one all down

884
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: and turned around to win to one. But there's some

885
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 2: pretty unproving guys in that lineup. Jordan Cox is going

886
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 2: to be the wicket keeper because their current wicker keeper

887
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 2: Jamie Smith is on opportunity leave for this series. There's

888
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:29,280
Speaker 2: no Mark Wood. Ben Stakes looks a shadow of the cricketer.

889
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 2: And I know I'm tempting faate to you, but he

890
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 2: really does look like the shadow of a cricketer he

891
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 2: was when he first got the captain see Jack Leech

892
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:43,439
Speaker 2: show Basher Arian armed. Are they a spin attack that's

893
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 2: going to trouble kan Williamson?

894
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 3: Well, not after we've what we've done in India and

895
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 3: home conditions. I don't necessarily think they are.

896
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 2: They are going to be heavily reliant on Duckett, Joe Root,

897
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 2: Harry Brook and guys like Ollie Stone and look a good,

898
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 2: very good cricketers.

899
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 3: But I'm not feeling the same sense of dread as

900
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 3: I was.

901
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 4: Olli Pope's out of form too, But yeah, I agree.

902
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: I mean we've got cricketers out of form too, but

903
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: you know, hey, yeah, just on that front, just just

904
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: going right back to our side very briefly, are we

905
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: in agreement that Matt Henry is now our premiere stripe bowler.

906
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: Paul Ford. Yes, okay, good, followed by O'Rourke. I think

907
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: that's another thing. He's just been fantastic. Your thoughts on

908
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: the England side, Yeah, look.

909
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 4: I think it's going to be interesting to see.

910
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, this guy Bethel is just one of these hunch

911
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 5: players that the England selectors have thrown in the Max

912
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 5: Born and Barbados has never scored a century in professional

913
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 5: cricket and he's been picked as a batsman. So absolute

914
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 5: roll of the dice there. Hopefully he's shit house. He's

915
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 5: got a terrible hair, bleached blonde Jose, you'd hate him.

916
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 4: They can tell.

917
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, I think someone like Chris Wolkes is going

918
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 5: to be very good here in New Zealand. But yeah,

919
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 5: long may the poor form of Olipope and Ben Starkes continue. Yeah,

920
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 5: I think absolutely what Dylan said that Brook and Rope

921
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 5: will do a lot of the heavy lifting. Joe Route

922
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 5: what he's been out here nine times, He's had sixteen bats,

923
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,879
Speaker 5: he's scored two hundreds and averages fifty two point five.

924
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 4: Not bad, not bad at all.

925
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, good stuff. I'll tell you what we're going to do.

926
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to take a quick break at this point

927
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: and come back in time for Dylan Cleavers. Who am I?

928
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: Welcome back and it's time for Dylan Cleavers. Who am I?

929
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 1: It's Dylan Cleavers, who am I?

930
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 2: Yeah?

931
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 3: Thanks guys.

932
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a while since i' dad and I

933
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 2: had to dig back in the memory banks to see

934
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: who it was, and thankfully we had a reader that

935
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 2: identified that it was Andy Roberts, who was an absolute

936
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 2: cult hero.

937
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 3: J I've got the name of the winner.

938
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: You've shut the name off this photo here, Paul. But

939
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 2: it's it's the ones that went all the time. Lucky,

940
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 2: isn't it Lucky in his dad.

941
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 4: Lucky and his dad with the great Wanger.

942
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 2: Yea, it was Andy Roberts, not the antiguan Andy Robts,

943
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 2: but the very own Tierra born Andy Roberts, who was

944
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 2: an absolute Indy stalwart and who sadly passed away when

945
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 2: he had a heart attack well out on a run

946
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 2: in Wellington.

947
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 4: That is such bad luck.

948
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 5: I mean not that certainly the heart attack, but for sure,

949
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 5: but it's such bad luck to be a good cricketer

950
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 5: at international level. And there's another guy who's an absolute

951
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 5: worldy with the same name as you just to run

952
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:56,959
Speaker 5: full interference on your whole career.

953
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 4: And that's what happened with ADG.

954
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 5: Roberts from Northern Districts and Anderson Montgomery Everton Roberts, the

955
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 5: ferocious Andy Roberts from the West Indies.

956
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 4: That's shit out.

957
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 2: Luck anyway, moving on to this week's Who Am I.

958
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,720
Speaker 2: I was born into a cricketing family, with dad playing

959
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 2: seven first class matches, a number that would have been

960
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 2: likely higher were it not for a pesky global frakka

961
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: circle nineteen thirty nine to forty five. I had a

962
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 2: great uncle who also who umpired in Test cricket, and

963
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 2: a second cousin who played first class cricket and was

964
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 2: a tank driver in the not in the Great War,

965
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: in the Second World War and fought at Monte Casino.

966
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 2: Enough about them, though, I was a better cricketer by

967
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: some distance, having played close to two hundred first class matches,

968
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,879
Speaker 2: with more than a quarter of them Tests. I'd beat

969
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 2: a well worn path through Auckland Grammar into the Test

970
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 2: team at a young age and was really challenged from

971
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 2: my spot in the middle order for the next decade plus.

972
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 2: I was a stroke maker, a blue eyed boy, wonder

973
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 2: who never quite fulfilled my potential. Though I played critical

974
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:14,479
Speaker 2: roles in places like Pakistan and the West Indies during

975
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,959
Speaker 2: New Zealand's ascent to cricket and credibility. My career ended

976
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 2: just as New Zealand's took off, and in some ways

977
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 2: I was superseded by another blue Eye Grammar boy. But

978
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 2: he never got to play against George Best, did he?

979
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 3: Who am I?

980
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 2: Ah?

981
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: Here you go? Very good? Send your answers to where

982
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: Paul Ford.

983
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 5: Flick as an email to b YC at Basebrigade dot

984
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 5: co dot Nz or slide into the DMS for the

985
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 5: Base Brigade or the Alternative Commentary collective on Instagram or facy.

986
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: Great staff mate. Now it's time for Paul Forward's Cricket

987
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: Violence Corner. Paul Forwards Cricket violence Corner.

988
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 5: Troubled Former Australian T twenty slogger Luke pomers Batch has

989
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,760
Speaker 5: successfully pleaded for his freedom after facing prison for assaulting

990
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 5: a security guard who asked him if he had intended

991
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:12,240
Speaker 5: buying anything at a Perth pharmacy. Pomasback reacted by punching

992
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 5: the worker twice in the chest and he fell over.

993
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 5: Back in two thousand and seven, he was the car

994
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 5: park call up kit the toast of Western Australian cricket

995
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 5: after blasting his way into international contention and getting pulled

996
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 5: out of the Whacker car park when he was at

997
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 5: the ground as a punter to make his Australian debut. Astonishingly,

998
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 5: he was currently banned from playing for Western Australia at

999
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 5: the time because of his drinking habits. Disciplinary issues continue

1000
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 5: to plague Pomis Batch throughout his playing career, and it

1001
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 5: got worse once his career was over. In twenty twenty one,

1002
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 5: he was told he could be heading to prison for

1003
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 5: a string of South Perth burglaries stolen golf clubs. No less,

1004
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 5: he was then charged with the bizarre theft of an

1005
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 5: electric scooter from a man who was pushing it along

1006
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 5: a street in Como. Pomas Batch punched him, pinched the

1007
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 5: scooter and then scarpeed. He was later stopped by police

1008
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 5: later in the day with the scooter in the.

1009
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:03,919
Speaker 4: Back of his car.

1010
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: God He received a.

1011
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 5: Twelve month suspension for the latest incident, twelve months suspended,

1012
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,720
Speaker 5: eight month prison term and he was fined one thousand

1013
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 5: dollars that will be into the pocket of the security guard.

1014
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 4: He is also attending substance abuse counseling.

1015
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 2: He sounds like another Perth sporting legend. Who's the AFL

1016
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: guy who constantly ben cousins who constantly.

1017
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 3: Got in trouble like that too? Yes, what is it

1018
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 3: about Perth in Napier?

1019
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: Well, there you go New Zealand and the rest of

1020
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 1: the world. That's the end of our podcast today. What's

1021
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: going on with the Bounce there, Dylan Cleaver.

1022
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 2: The Bounces fired up the wheel again after after a

1023
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 2: bit of an absence while overseas. Yeah, we're all over that.

1024
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 2: Cricket and Pune. What a fantastic day and some of

1025
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 2: the response I've got to that the piece I wrote

1026
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 2: post Poune has been fantastic. So thank you all to

1027
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 2: have jumped on board lately. Dylancleaver dot subsect dot com.

1028
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: It's free good stuff mate. Well listen, thanks for taking

1029
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: the time to listen to this podcast. We'll be back

1030
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: same time, same place next week. Until then, we'll see

1031
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: you later.