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Speaker 1: And the government team is considering rolling back insulation standards

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Speaker 1: because of overheating and new build cost blowouts. The new

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Speaker 1: standards are estimated to save a new home around forty

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Speaker 1: percent on heating. Building and Construction Minister Chris pink has

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Speaker 1: reportedly asked mb to quote urgently investigate the cost of

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Speaker 1: the changes. John Tukey is a professor of construction at

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Speaker 1: aut end is with us this evening, Hi, John, good

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Speaker 1: evening overheating and new build. Is this a thing?

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Speaker 2: It's a new one for me. I have to say,

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Speaker 2: I just looked at it on seriously, really is that

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Speaker 2: a thing? I'm not sure? Honestly, not so much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So what's the problem.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So the issue here is it comes down to

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Speaker 2: the cost of acquisition and through life costs and the

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Speaker 2: difference between the two. Right, So, when you acquire a

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Speaker 2: new build and you try to upgrade the capability of

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Speaker 2: the new build to be able to deal with inlation

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Speaker 2: and but whatever, you know, pick an issue, then you

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Speaker 2: have to spend more. And that's the way of things.

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Speaker 2: And they're spending more in the short term means that

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Speaker 2: long term is the through life sales or sorry, through

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Speaker 2: life costs associated with you know, fifty years or more

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Speaker 2: of operation means that you make it all back and

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Speaker 2: more just on the basis of the lower costs.

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Speaker 1: Right, So what you're saying is that it makes more

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Speaker 1: financial scenes to look at things over the longer term,

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Speaker 1: and that justifies the investment in really good quality insulation

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Speaker 1: when a building is constructed.

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Speaker 2: As a general of sumb absolutely. I mean you're talking

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Speaker 2: about relatively speaking, a few thousands of dollars upfront as

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Speaker 2: opposed to tens of thousands of dollars through life. You

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Speaker 2: know you're talking If you're talking about fifty sixty seventy

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Speaker 2: years of the operation of the build, then guess what,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're going to get a better bang for

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Speaker 2: your book over the long time rather than the short time. Right.

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Speaker 1: So the thing that the Minister is apparently investigating at

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Speaker 1: those upgrades to insulation and glazing requirements that were introduced

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Speaker 1: in May of last year. So how significant were those changes?

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Speaker 2: Oh are you there? John? Well?

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Speaker 1: Whatever you I've lost John. We'lle if we can get

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Speaker 1: him back in a moment. So this has come about

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Speaker 1: because of official because of correspondence that has been released

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Speaker 1: under the Official Information Act to aren Z and in

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Speaker 1: which case the Minister was warned about upgrades potentially leading

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Speaker 1: to some overheating, although it was noted that in that

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Speaker 1: official information, apparently those upgrades had overwhelming support. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it probably all depends on the nature of

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Speaker 1: the upgrades, but you know, they certainly reduced heating requirements

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Speaker 1: according to this information, like a four bedroom home by

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Speaker 1: up to forty percent, which significant. And when you imagine

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Speaker 1: what energy bills might be over a lifetime of a

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Speaker 1: house or seed building, you think you'd make that money

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Speaker 1: back in no time. Sorry, Sorry, John, I think you

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Speaker 1: beck with us now.

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Speaker 2: I was just asking I'm back. I'm definitely back to

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Speaker 2: the west of Auckland. Is a wonderful place there.

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Speaker 1: It certainly is. It just not when it comes to

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Speaker 1: cel phone reception. So how significant were those changes to

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Speaker 1: insulation and guising requirements that were introduced last year?

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Speaker 2: Look the way I view I mean, to sit here

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Speaker 2: and start complaining about overheating is laughable. No, it's not

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Speaker 2: an issue as far as overheating is concerned. Guess what

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Speaker 2: all you have to do is, I don't know, open

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Speaker 2: a window. Who knew? Who knew that this could fix it?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's not complicated long term. If you're interested

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Speaker 2: as an organization, as a country, or anything else in

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Speaker 2: terms of being able to deal with you know, greenhouse

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Speaker 2: gas emissions and bloody blah, then you know, guess what

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Speaker 2: you're going to have to You have to insulate. You're

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Speaker 2: going to have to insulate effectively. You're going to have

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Speaker 2: to insulate over the long term, and you're going to

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Speaker 2: have to deal with that cost up front. You know,

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Speaker 2: to to to play games and start talking about this

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Speaker 2: notion of overheating. My god, yeah, really, you know this,

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Speaker 2: this this is not a thing.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's in good faith. Let's take the other side

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Speaker 1: of the argument. Let's take the capital out lay and

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Speaker 1: so say you know, the insulation costs forty or fifty

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Speaker 1: thou dollars to meet the eight to one standard. What

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Speaker 1: is the likelihood that that expense for people or companies

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Speaker 1: building houses? Ultimately, is the difference between us addressing you know,

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Speaker 1: the housing shortage and not addressing it as effectively as

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Speaker 1: we might is having that standard costing us in terms

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Speaker 1: of new houses?

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Speaker 2: Well, again, I'm going to come back to the requirements

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Speaker 2: that we have as a nation with regard to meeting

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Speaker 2: the requirements of the of the climate cords we've signed

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Speaker 2: myself up to legally as a nation in terms of

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Speaker 2: greenhouse guess emissions. Now, am I some sort of zelop

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Speaker 2: that's going to sit here and say, oh, we need

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Speaker 2: to do this for this reason. No, that's not my point.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you're talking about the long term through

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Speaker 2: life costs associated with the expenditure on heating, right, let's

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Speaker 2: say that fifty years is your baseline. Fifty years is

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Speaker 2: your baseline, and you've spent fifty thousand dollars at thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars a year at current prices, you know, which it

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Speaker 2: equates to a lot more over the longer term, you know,

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Speaker 2: in the future future cost basis. You know, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: but you know it's an absolute no brainer in terms

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Speaker 2: of in terms of savings made, and it's also some

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Speaker 2: substantial change in terms of the total amount of greenhouse

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Speaker 2: guess emissions and blah blah blah that is required. You

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Speaker 2: can't have it both ways. You can't just sit and say, well,

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Speaker 2: we're going to sit here, we're going to go for

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Speaker 2: the lowest cost of acquisition. And it's a case that's nice,

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Speaker 2: but actually, if you if you really are serious, if

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Speaker 2: you're really playing the game of being able to achieve

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Speaker 2: all these outcomes. And by the way, all governmental ministers

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Speaker 2: are going to be really keen on saying, oh, yes,

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Speaker 2: we've met our climate obligations and so forth. All of

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Speaker 2: them throughout the Western world are very keen on this.

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Speaker 2: Then you know that there is a there's a there's

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Speaker 2: a payment of the piper that's required.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, And I suppose you know when you

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Speaker 1: when you think about all of those related costs, right,

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Speaker 1: even just the healthcare costs from from people who have

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Speaker 1: illnesses that might have been prevented had they been living

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Speaker 1: in warmer, drier homes. I mean, there are all sorts

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Speaker 1: of flow on effigs that you can imagine that are

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Speaker 1: quite hard to equate for, to account for. But but

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Speaker 1: but significant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it is. And you know, you know, at what

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Speaker 2: point do we do we step back from going for

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Speaker 2: the lowest cost of acquisition? You know, I'm serious as

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Speaker 2: we sit here now, the biggest single issues associated with

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Speaker 2: this government and the previous government and the previous government

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Speaker 2: prior to that, and the previous government. Pride of that

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Speaker 2: I've been talking about this stuff in the last couple

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Speaker 2: of decades and I'm telling you here and now, the

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Speaker 2: issues are around infrastructural acquisition. They are about dealing with

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Speaker 2: things like stormwater, raf toilets, flipping, dealing with you know, sewerage,

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Speaker 2: water supply, power roading, all the other infrastructure around, dealing

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Speaker 2: with you know, having doctors, surgeries and hospitals and YadA, YadA, YadA.

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Speaker 2: All this stuff are things that we need to consider

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Speaker 2: and to play the game. And this is not me

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Speaker 2: being political in any way, shape or form. But don't

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Speaker 2: I actually say with a straight face that we're going

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Speaker 2: to now talk about the problems of overheating really in

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Speaker 2: New Zealand? Are you sure? Yeah? Really, I'm honestly, I'm

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm such a loss to know how to to

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Speaker 2: to respond to that. I'm sorry, that's that's a fatuous

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Speaker 2: position to take.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time, John, We really

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. That is John Tookey, who's a professor at

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Speaker 1: a UT.

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Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks.

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Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.