1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,560 Speaker 1: And so our Prime Minister has met with the British 2 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: counterpart Downing Street overnight they've signed the sixty seven million 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: dollar weapons deal while also agreeing to extend our involvement 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: in the training program for Ukraine troops. 5 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 2: We are a small country, We are a long long 6 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: way away from Ukraine or from the UK and we 7 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: have limited resources. But we are here because you are 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 2: fighting for values that we believe deeply in and those 9 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 2: values are the sovereignty of nation states. Those values are 10 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: the upholding the international rules based system. It's about democratic 11 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: ideals and liberal democracy values that we as a small 12 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 2: country in particular, have huge appreciation for. 13 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: Now former Foreign Minister and Secretary General of the Commonwealth, 14 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:40,959 Speaker 1: So DONM kinnon's with the Sudan Morning to you. 15 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 3: Good morning to you. 16 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: How much of this is optics versus a growing tangible 17 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: closeness between us in Britain. 18 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 3: Well, there's always been a pretty close linkage, particularly at 19 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 3: the military level, and that goes back more than one 20 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 3: hundred years. But the overall sense of hire when the 21 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 3: invasion took place, New Zealand stood up pretty firmly for Ukraine. 22 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 3: I believe still does. But there's a long way to 23 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 3: go before we find see any kind of settlement there. 24 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: Well, I was going to say, that's my next question. 25 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: All they're announcing more money, more weaponry, more support indicates 26 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: what happened to the peace deal? Is this not ending 27 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: anytime soon? 28 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 3: Well? I think a lot. We're waiting on Washington, DC there, 29 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 3: and that is becoming very problematical, particularly for European powers, 30 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 3: the United States, you know, having absolutely dominated the dominated 31 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 3: NATO for years now, having hesitancy about even will they 32 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 3: remain in play in relation to this particular conflict. Nevertheless, 33 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 3: no question, European powers are all building up their defenses, 34 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 3: all building up their military, and there won't be a 35 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 3: giveaway here very rapidly. 36 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: Do you think what we announced, I mean, this announcement's 37 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: one thing, But what we announced the defense the other day, 38 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: the nine billion of fresh spending till twelve billion in total. 39 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: Will that had been registered in places like Britain. 40 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sure it would have been. I mean, they 41 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 3: would have gone through their notes about well, yes, okay, 42 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: New Zealand primes is coming, what are they doing? And 43 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 3: they would be immediately updated on that fact and what 44 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 3: we have done here by committing ourselves to a much 45 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 3: higher level of military spending actually gives us far more 46 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 3: clout in the Pacific, which has been diminishing in recent years. 47 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: The I mean, you've been around a long time to dawn, 48 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: seen a lot of things. What do you make of 49 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: the world at the moment? And know it's a very 50 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: broad based question, but I mean, what do you think. 51 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 3: It's very uncertain, it's very messy, it's very there are 52 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 3: problems everywhere, and when you get big problems like what 53 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 3: is happening in Ukraine, like what is happening in the 54 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 3: Middle East, it's easy for other small skirmishes to go 55 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 3: unnoticed and people to take advantage of the bigger ones 56 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 3: to do their own sort of boundary realignment and things 57 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 3: like that. And you're seeing that in many parts of 58 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 3: the world, particularly in Africa. 59 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: Your insights to Don mckinnam, former Foreign Minister of course 60 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: Sir Secretary General of the Commonwealth. For more from the 61 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd be 62 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 1: from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.