1 00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:11,973 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It be 2 00:00:12,413 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:17,453 --> 00:00:21,733 Speaker 1: Yet inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct 4 00:00:21,933 --> 00:00:24,333 Speaker 1: with Elliott Smith, powered by News Talks. 5 00:00:24,333 --> 00:00:27,253 Speaker 2: It be Welcome into Rugby Direct, power by Excess Solutions, 6 00:00:27,333 --> 00:00:32,413 Speaker 2: elevating you and your business to a high level. Rugby 7 00:00:32,453 --> 00:00:35,373 Speaker 2: Direct Back again for another week, this time from Chili 8 00:00:35,413 --> 00:00:38,653 Speaker 2: Old Churin where it's going to snow later in the 9 00:00:38,693 --> 00:00:41,173 Speaker 2: week as the All Blacks prepared to bring down the 10 00:00:41,293 --> 00:00:42,173 Speaker 2: curtain on the. 11 00:00:42,213 --> 00:00:43,733 Speaker 3: Twenty twenty four season. 12 00:00:43,773 --> 00:00:46,493 Speaker 2: But first plenty to get stuck into from the weekend 13 00:00:46,733 --> 00:00:49,733 Speaker 2: that was, and a great pleasure to be joined again 14 00:00:49,813 --> 00:00:53,093 Speaker 2: by Liam Napier Chi Swarts, writer rugby correspondent for The 15 00:00:53,133 --> 00:00:54,413 Speaker 2: New Zealand Hero with Liam. 16 00:00:54,453 --> 00:00:58,093 Speaker 3: Greetings and welcome back to another edition of Rugby Direct. 17 00:00:59,293 --> 00:01:05,733 Speaker 4: Chou Charles Eliotto. Great great to get you and very 18 00:01:05,773 --> 00:01:08,013 Speaker 4: special for you to be in my homeland, so hope, 19 00:01:08,133 --> 00:01:11,533 Speaker 4: so and up some pasta and some vino and the 20 00:01:11,573 --> 00:01:13,573 Speaker 4: great the great people of Italy. 21 00:01:14,373 --> 00:01:17,693 Speaker 2: Yep, any touch, just let me know and I'll do 22 00:01:17,773 --> 00:01:21,253 Speaker 2: all this to match those look. I guess the All 23 00:01:21,253 --> 00:01:25,013 Speaker 2: Blacks dream of an end of year two, unbeaten is 24 00:01:25,093 --> 00:01:29,693 Speaker 2: over with that loss to France one point loss. Interesting 25 00:01:29,773 --> 00:01:32,293 Speaker 2: to have a couple of days to reflect on it. Liam, 26 00:01:32,333 --> 00:01:33,333 Speaker 2: how are you feeling. 27 00:01:32,973 --> 00:01:35,773 Speaker 3: After that defeat? Was it an All Black's victory that 28 00:01:35,893 --> 00:01:36,653 Speaker 3: got away. 29 00:01:37,613 --> 00:01:39,293 Speaker 5: One hundred per cent? Was Elliott's? 30 00:01:40,013 --> 00:01:42,413 Speaker 4: Look, I think this is their worst loss of the year, 31 00:01:42,453 --> 00:01:47,133 Speaker 4: to be honest, it's just so deflating because they were 32 00:01:47,173 --> 00:01:49,213 Speaker 4: the best team on the park and. 33 00:01:50,293 --> 00:01:52,813 Speaker 5: They blew it through a number of different factors. 34 00:01:53,773 --> 00:01:55,613 Speaker 4: If we start with I guess the first half and 35 00:01:55,653 --> 00:01:59,573 Speaker 4: how good the All Blacks were there. They're attacking intent, 36 00:02:00,013 --> 00:02:03,693 Speaker 4: their ball movements, the tri for Peter Luckeye was brilliant, 37 00:02:03,933 --> 00:02:05,813 Speaker 4: out of this world in terms of the off floads, 38 00:02:05,853 --> 00:02:08,853 Speaker 4: the support play, the pace that the All Blacks played with, 39 00:02:09,853 --> 00:02:12,173 Speaker 4: They could have got, could have would have should have 40 00:02:12,213 --> 00:02:15,093 Speaker 4: got more points for their dominance in the first half. 41 00:02:15,613 --> 00:02:20,133 Speaker 4: They scrum their their lineouts which got steals of the French. 42 00:02:20,573 --> 00:02:23,453 Speaker 4: They really were all over them in that first half, 43 00:02:23,493 --> 00:02:27,173 Speaker 4: and then they conspired to sort of throw it away, 44 00:02:28,613 --> 00:02:31,333 Speaker 4: not all through their own doing. There were some real 45 00:02:31,613 --> 00:02:34,853 Speaker 4: frustrations with the officials, which I'm sure we'll touch on, 46 00:02:34,973 --> 00:02:38,653 Speaker 4: but the All Black's mistakes as well, whether it was 47 00:02:39,213 --> 00:02:44,733 Speaker 4: ball handling or kicking, and the failure to kick for 48 00:02:44,773 --> 00:02:49,613 Speaker 4: the corner and be real ruthless with chasing that match winning. 49 00:02:49,373 --> 00:02:52,533 Speaker 5: Try lets victory slip through the grass. 50 00:02:52,613 --> 00:02:55,893 Speaker 4: And it is frustrating because it does color the complexion 51 00:02:56,373 --> 00:02:59,053 Speaker 4: of this campaign for the All Blacks, because, as you mentioned, 52 00:02:59,773 --> 00:03:03,373 Speaker 4: a clean sweep, which was unthinkable from my perspective certainly 53 00:03:03,413 --> 00:03:05,533 Speaker 4: at the start of this tour, was there for the 54 00:03:05,613 --> 00:03:09,933 Speaker 4: taking and now it's gone and it really does shape 55 00:03:10,013 --> 00:03:15,093 Speaker 4: the narrative and change the outlook for when it is 56 00:03:15,173 --> 00:03:17,173 Speaker 4: time to reflect on the full campaign. 57 00:03:17,733 --> 00:03:21,013 Speaker 5: But yeah, the All Blacks were the better team. France 58 00:03:21,093 --> 00:03:22,173 Speaker 5: weren't at full strength. 59 00:03:22,453 --> 00:03:25,453 Speaker 4: This was a great opportunity to put another real stake 60 00:03:25,493 --> 00:03:27,773 Speaker 4: in the grounds and unfortunately it slipped away. 61 00:03:28,413 --> 00:03:31,493 Speaker 2: It did slip away, and the All Blacks were the 62 00:03:31,533 --> 00:03:34,933 Speaker 2: better team, certainly for the first forty minutes. 63 00:03:34,973 --> 00:03:35,373 Speaker 3: Anyway. 64 00:03:36,053 --> 00:03:38,733 Speaker 2: I think France came back into the game really well. 65 00:03:38,773 --> 00:03:41,253 Speaker 2: In fact, there was a little sign just before the 66 00:03:41,333 --> 00:03:44,373 Speaker 2: halftime break where they conceded. The All Blacks conceeded that 67 00:03:44,493 --> 00:03:48,253 Speaker 2: try to France, which wasn't necessarily against the run of play, 68 00:03:48,453 --> 00:03:51,733 Speaker 2: but it felt like a little bit soft from an 69 00:03:51,733 --> 00:03:54,653 Speaker 2: All Blacks perspective, given how hard they'd worked for their 70 00:03:54,693 --> 00:03:57,173 Speaker 2: points to basically can see one down the other end, 71 00:03:57,613 --> 00:04:00,973 Speaker 2: and then that attacking play just before the halftime break 72 00:04:01,293 --> 00:04:03,693 Speaker 2: with a building for a period, then from memory, the 73 00:04:03,733 --> 00:04:05,893 Speaker 2: ball spits out the back a little bit and they 74 00:04:05,893 --> 00:04:08,533 Speaker 2: lost their train of thought a little bit with the 75 00:04:08,573 --> 00:04:12,693 Speaker 2: halftime clock having ticked over, and then there was a 76 00:04:12,733 --> 00:04:15,253 Speaker 2: forty to forty five meta drop goal attent from Bowden 77 00:04:15,333 --> 00:04:18,853 Speaker 2: Barrett that came to nothing, and that was half time, 78 00:04:18,893 --> 00:04:21,933 Speaker 2: and it just felt like it wasn't quite ruthless enough 79 00:04:21,933 --> 00:04:23,893 Speaker 2: from the All Blacks in the first forty minutes. 80 00:04:23,933 --> 00:04:25,733 Speaker 3: And similar to last week Ireland. 81 00:04:26,333 --> 00:04:28,533 Speaker 2: In an Ireland, you know, France comes out strong in 82 00:04:28,573 --> 00:04:31,933 Speaker 2: the second spell, but not similar to Dublin. The All 83 00:04:31,973 --> 00:04:35,653 Speaker 2: Blacks couldn't wrestle back the momentum they did it in 84 00:04:35,733 --> 00:04:39,093 Speaker 2: Dublin really well, they couldn't do it. They had it 85 00:04:39,093 --> 00:04:41,293 Speaker 2: for a period of time. That bull goes to hands 86 00:04:41,933 --> 00:04:44,813 Speaker 2: out to Will Jordan and rather than being kicked ahead 87 00:04:45,053 --> 00:04:49,893 Speaker 2: and Louis Bielberi managers to score, and it felt like 88 00:04:50,013 --> 00:04:52,213 Speaker 2: that was the real swing of the game and the 89 00:04:52,213 --> 00:04:55,253 Speaker 2: All Blacks were chasing it from that point so you 90 00:04:55,293 --> 00:04:56,813 Speaker 2: look at it and go there are a couple of 91 00:04:57,173 --> 00:05:00,653 Speaker 2: warning signs potentially before halftime that maybe the All Blacks 92 00:05:01,133 --> 00:05:04,253 Speaker 2: didn't get enough reward for their first half dominance. 93 00:05:05,613 --> 00:05:08,213 Speaker 4: Yeah, indeed, And I think it was as big mo 94 00:05:08,733 --> 00:05:11,813 Speaker 4: that they let slip through their graphs. You know that 95 00:05:11,853 --> 00:05:13,653 Speaker 4: what they were doing so well in the first half 96 00:05:13,693 --> 00:05:17,133 Speaker 4: in terms of the pace, they controlled the pace and 97 00:05:17,213 --> 00:05:21,253 Speaker 4: tempo and the game was in their hands. Where in 98 00:05:21,293 --> 00:05:23,613 Speaker 4: the second half, I think it became a bit of 99 00:05:23,653 --> 00:05:26,573 Speaker 4: a grind, didn't it. Whether it was the All Black's 100 00:05:26,653 --> 00:05:31,413 Speaker 4: rock ball and their presentation and their cleanouts weren't accurate 101 00:05:31,573 --> 00:05:35,133 Speaker 4: or urgent enough, and that allowed France to get on top. 102 00:05:35,853 --> 00:05:40,933 Speaker 4: And I thought the Georgian referee, I've had some frustrations 103 00:05:40,933 --> 00:05:43,133 Speaker 4: with him before and I think it just becomes a 104 00:05:43,133 --> 00:05:46,493 Speaker 4: bit of a lottery there. But also just France were 105 00:05:46,533 --> 00:05:49,373 Speaker 4: able to put the All Blacks under pressure by slowing 106 00:05:49,413 --> 00:05:53,453 Speaker 4: the game by which allows their defense to set. 107 00:05:54,013 --> 00:05:55,773 Speaker 5: There was some handling issues from the All Blacks. 108 00:05:55,773 --> 00:05:59,373 Speaker 4: From memory, Will Jordan passed that went high, Caleb Clarks 109 00:05:59,373 --> 00:06:03,533 Speaker 4: bundled into touch, Rica Olwani drops one ball a sapphire 110 00:06:03,573 --> 00:06:04,573 Speaker 4: more and miss as a throw. 111 00:06:06,093 --> 00:06:09,253 Speaker 5: Cody Taylor gets pinged for a penalty at the mall. 112 00:06:09,773 --> 00:06:14,373 Speaker 4: Just the discipline started to go and France were just 113 00:06:14,493 --> 00:06:18,653 Speaker 4: able to get on top play their game. I thought 114 00:06:18,693 --> 00:06:21,893 Speaker 4: what France did really well is they went through the 115 00:06:21,933 --> 00:06:24,613 Speaker 4: middle of the All Blacks and that was through their 116 00:06:24,653 --> 00:06:27,173 Speaker 4: physical forward pack. I thought they got some pay for 117 00:06:27,213 --> 00:06:31,293 Speaker 4: that around the fringes, maybe the All blacksmiths. Sam Cain 118 00:06:32,333 --> 00:06:36,693 Speaker 4: just his defensive work there. But also, you know, we 119 00:06:36,733 --> 00:06:42,373 Speaker 4: do have to touch on the in my mind, if 120 00:06:43,693 --> 00:06:46,493 Speaker 4: it's easy in hindsight, isn't it to point the finger 121 00:06:46,533 --> 00:06:48,653 Speaker 4: at Scott Barret? And I don't think this is the soulary, 122 00:06:50,093 --> 00:06:51,773 Speaker 4: but I do think they had to go for the 123 00:06:51,813 --> 00:06:54,733 Speaker 4: line they had. Damian McKenzie came on and they kept 124 00:06:55,453 --> 00:06:58,453 Speaker 4: four second half penalties, three of those in the last 125 00:06:58,453 --> 00:06:59,253 Speaker 4: eighteen minutes. 126 00:06:59,293 --> 00:07:02,173 Speaker 5: Now, in my mind, if Sam White Locke or. 127 00:07:03,653 --> 00:07:06,373 Speaker 4: Ardie Severe as captain, I don't think there's any question 128 00:07:06,933 --> 00:07:08,933 Speaker 4: that they would have at least had one crack at 129 00:07:08,933 --> 00:07:11,573 Speaker 4: the line, a mall try put down a scrum where 130 00:07:11,573 --> 00:07:15,093 Speaker 4: they had dominance, just at least had one go at it. 131 00:07:15,213 --> 00:07:18,733 Speaker 4: And you know, I can understand the reasoning that you 132 00:07:19,293 --> 00:07:21,573 Speaker 4: look to get back down there again one point game, 133 00:07:21,613 --> 00:07:25,053 Speaker 4: you force a penalty and kick the winning goal. But 134 00:07:25,453 --> 00:07:27,733 Speaker 4: it just felt like at that moment in the match, 135 00:07:27,733 --> 00:07:29,853 Speaker 4: Sel Blacks needed to put the foot on the throat, 136 00:07:29,893 --> 00:07:33,013 Speaker 4: they needed to have a go and that was I 137 00:07:33,053 --> 00:07:36,893 Speaker 4: think that will be a real learning moment for Scott 138 00:07:36,893 --> 00:07:37,733 Speaker 4: Barres's Captaincy. 139 00:07:38,013 --> 00:07:39,533 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's hope it is. I think. 140 00:07:40,173 --> 00:07:43,893 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is easy to say in hindsight because you 141 00:07:43,893 --> 00:07:45,453 Speaker 2: know the score of the try, no one's going to 142 00:07:45,493 --> 00:07:47,413 Speaker 2: go back and go gee. I wish they've done it 143 00:07:47,413 --> 00:07:53,013 Speaker 2: in threes instead. But it felt like with the time 144 00:07:53,053 --> 00:07:55,893 Speaker 2: that was left, when McKenzie set himself up for that 145 00:07:55,973 --> 00:07:58,333 Speaker 2: last penalty goal, it would have been best set to 146 00:07:58,373 --> 00:08:03,413 Speaker 2: go for the corner and have for the attacking line 147 00:08:03,413 --> 00:08:06,933 Speaker 2: out inside the twenty two and set yourself up. 148 00:08:06,893 --> 00:08:11,373 Speaker 3: The line out. Muller had a little wobble bar spy 149 00:08:11,453 --> 00:08:11,933 Speaker 3: and large. 150 00:08:12,013 --> 00:08:13,413 Speaker 2: You know, he had a great game at double in 151 00:08:13,413 --> 00:08:15,813 Speaker 2: the week before, so you would have backed him to 152 00:08:16,133 --> 00:08:17,893 Speaker 2: get to the right target. Even if they didn't, you know, 153 00:08:17,933 --> 00:08:21,253 Speaker 2: France will have to presumably clear it outside the twenty two. 154 00:08:21,293 --> 00:08:23,173 Speaker 2: The All Blacks should get the ball still deep inside 155 00:08:23,173 --> 00:08:26,453 Speaker 2: French territory. So yeah, I think it was the wrong 156 00:08:26,493 --> 00:08:30,373 Speaker 2: call I actually liked Scott Barrett actually postgame saying, you 157 00:08:30,573 --> 00:08:31,853 Speaker 2: actually don't know if it was the right call or 158 00:08:31,893 --> 00:08:34,573 Speaker 2: on and he was torn, and he remained torn after 159 00:08:34,613 --> 00:08:37,093 Speaker 2: the game whether he made the right call in his head. 160 00:08:37,173 --> 00:08:41,253 Speaker 2: I think it is a learning moment for Scott Barrett. 161 00:08:41,413 --> 00:08:44,413 Speaker 2: And you know, maybe a little bit more ruthlessness required 162 00:08:44,413 --> 00:08:47,453 Speaker 2: from the All Blacks not only in that decision, but 163 00:08:47,693 --> 00:08:51,133 Speaker 2: across the eighty minutes and indeed perhaps even across the year. 164 00:08:51,173 --> 00:08:54,253 Speaker 2: Without wanting to verge too far into season review material 165 00:08:54,853 --> 00:08:57,133 Speaker 2: just yet with the game to go, but you know, 166 00:08:57,213 --> 00:09:00,853 Speaker 2: the ruthlessness that the All Blacks teams in the past 167 00:09:00,973 --> 00:09:04,613 Speaker 2: have had, just little bits missing from the team at 168 00:09:04,613 --> 00:09:07,453 Speaker 2: the moment. There's certainly plenty of attack, but an endeavor 169 00:09:07,893 --> 00:09:10,853 Speaker 2: just that ruthlessness in the twenty two and on attack 170 00:09:10,973 --> 00:09:11,853 Speaker 2: is missing at the moment. 171 00:09:13,053 --> 00:09:16,373 Speaker 4: That's right, and it stuck for them in the first 172 00:09:16,453 --> 00:09:20,493 Speaker 4: half those passes, but the French were able to slow 173 00:09:20,573 --> 00:09:23,613 Speaker 4: the pace, make it a grind and then just pounce 174 00:09:23,653 --> 00:09:26,453 Speaker 4: on the All Blacks mistakes and a couple of those 175 00:09:26,453 --> 00:09:29,413 Speaker 4: in particular that we need to touch on. You know, 176 00:09:29,493 --> 00:09:33,973 Speaker 4: Courtiers Lastima's performance off the bench as in the spotlights. 177 00:09:34,213 --> 00:09:37,773 Speaker 4: He got pained for taking too long at the ruck 178 00:09:37,853 --> 00:09:43,973 Speaker 4: trying to do a box kick, which was a fifty 179 00:09:43,973 --> 00:09:46,973 Speaker 4: to fifty decision. I don't think that was fairly policed 180 00:09:47,013 --> 00:09:50,373 Speaker 4: across the whole game. And then there was a tough 181 00:09:50,413 --> 00:09:56,093 Speaker 4: line out throw that he lost as well off the 182 00:09:56,133 --> 00:10:00,653 Speaker 4: top ball. And my question to you is do the 183 00:10:00,653 --> 00:10:02,613 Speaker 4: All Blacks need to be a wee bit more flexible 184 00:10:02,653 --> 00:10:07,453 Speaker 4: about the introduction of their bench because we talked last 185 00:10:07,453 --> 00:10:10,573 Speaker 4: week and I also wrote something that they have flipped 186 00:10:10,613 --> 00:10:13,133 Speaker 4: the script on their bench because they had the final 187 00:10:13,213 --> 00:10:16,053 Speaker 4: quarter fades and the Rugby Championship. But then we saw 188 00:10:16,053 --> 00:10:19,933 Speaker 4: it Twickenham and in Dublin the bench making a massive impact. 189 00:10:21,053 --> 00:10:22,933 Speaker 4: They went They went to the bench quite late in 190 00:10:22,973 --> 00:10:26,213 Speaker 4: this game. They only introduced the front rowers with about 191 00:10:26,213 --> 00:10:28,373 Speaker 4: eighteen minutes remaining. 192 00:10:28,813 --> 00:10:30,773 Speaker 5: Patrick Tuo Polocho was a wee bit before that. 193 00:10:30,813 --> 00:10:34,173 Speaker 4: But cam Roygate in particular, he's out playing one of, 194 00:10:34,293 --> 00:10:36,853 Speaker 4: if not the best players in the world in Anton DuPont, 195 00:10:36,893 --> 00:10:41,293 Speaker 4: playing out of his skin. Again, It's easy in hindsight, 196 00:10:41,373 --> 00:10:43,373 Speaker 4: isn't it to look back and say you shouldn't have 197 00:10:43,413 --> 00:10:43,973 Speaker 4: replaced him. 198 00:10:43,973 --> 00:10:45,493 Speaker 5: But what's what's your view on that? 199 00:10:45,773 --> 00:10:46,653 Speaker 3: Well, I thought it was early. 200 00:10:46,733 --> 00:10:49,293 Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was early when they substituted him, 201 00:10:49,333 --> 00:10:51,893 Speaker 2: given the way that he'd been playing, and didn't sound 202 00:10:51,973 --> 00:10:54,253 Speaker 2: like there are any injuries. Obviously he is coming back 203 00:10:54,293 --> 00:10:58,933 Speaker 2: from an injury. Certainly postgame there was nothing of the 204 00:10:58,973 --> 00:11:02,533 Speaker 2: sort mentioned. So I think it was too early, and 205 00:11:02,613 --> 00:11:05,013 Speaker 2: I think, you know, I feel the All Blacks. You 206 00:11:05,053 --> 00:11:07,053 Speaker 2: need to keep your best players out in the field 207 00:11:07,053 --> 00:11:08,893 Speaker 2: for as long as possible, and even if it's in 208 00:11:08,933 --> 00:11:12,773 Speaker 2: a half back role where buying large you know, players 209 00:11:12,733 --> 00:11:15,653 Speaker 2: are substituted late in the game because it is a 210 00:11:15,653 --> 00:11:19,653 Speaker 2: position that requires and demands a lot of you. I 211 00:11:19,693 --> 00:11:21,653 Speaker 2: think you need to be a little bit more flexible 212 00:11:22,053 --> 00:11:25,453 Speaker 2: around that and getting you know, even seventy minutes out 213 00:11:25,453 --> 00:11:27,133 Speaker 2: of the Cambroy Guard, the way that he was playing, 214 00:11:27,173 --> 00:11:29,093 Speaker 2: if he could get to that point, would have been 215 00:11:29,573 --> 00:11:31,733 Speaker 2: maybe a bit of a difference maker in that game. 216 00:11:32,573 --> 00:11:34,893 Speaker 2: You know, often you see them change the halfbacks to 217 00:11:35,893 --> 00:11:37,973 Speaker 2: change the tempo of the game. Well, I think Camboy 218 00:11:38,013 --> 00:11:40,173 Speaker 2: Guard was setting the tempo of that game and went 219 00:11:40,213 --> 00:11:43,813 Speaker 2: a little bit backwards when Cortez Razima came on the park. 220 00:11:43,893 --> 00:11:46,613 Speaker 2: So I think that is still a learning curve. We 221 00:11:46,653 --> 00:11:49,653 Speaker 2: talk about learning curves for Scott robertson of Scott Barrett. 222 00:11:49,653 --> 00:11:52,213 Speaker 2: That's one for Scott Robinson. Just around the bench and 223 00:11:52,293 --> 00:11:57,773 Speaker 2: how best to deploy those players. French went in with 224 00:11:57,813 --> 00:12:00,453 Speaker 2: a six to two bench, which meant that they had 225 00:12:00,453 --> 00:12:02,733 Speaker 2: a reserve halfback. But and do Pop moved out to 226 00:12:02,853 --> 00:12:07,573 Speaker 2: ten late in the game when Ligorak came on the park. 227 00:12:07,413 --> 00:12:10,493 Speaker 3: So you know that was slightly different. 228 00:12:10,533 --> 00:12:12,213 Speaker 2: But they kept too pinned out there for the full 229 00:12:12,213 --> 00:12:14,733 Speaker 2: eighty minutes because they know the impact that he has 230 00:12:14,773 --> 00:12:16,533 Speaker 2: on a game. Well, you know, to be honest, Cam 231 00:12:16,613 --> 00:12:18,813 Speaker 2: royguard in this All Blacks team at the moment. I 232 00:12:18,853 --> 00:12:20,573 Speaker 2: know he's only just come back, but he's providing some 233 00:12:20,693 --> 00:12:23,013 Speaker 2: of the sparks, so surely you wund out him out there. 234 00:12:23,813 --> 00:12:25,373 Speaker 2: He's a hell of a fit athlete, he got that 235 00:12:25,413 --> 00:12:27,813 Speaker 2: Bronco test earlier in the year before that injury. 236 00:12:28,613 --> 00:12:30,253 Speaker 3: Out there as long as possible. 237 00:12:30,733 --> 00:12:32,933 Speaker 4: Yeah, I totally agree, And I think half back, while 238 00:12:33,173 --> 00:12:37,573 Speaker 4: it is a very anaerobic position, you're doing a lot 239 00:12:37,573 --> 00:12:38,053 Speaker 4: of running. 240 00:12:38,413 --> 00:12:40,453 Speaker 5: If you think back to Aaron Smith, he used to 241 00:12:40,453 --> 00:12:41,333 Speaker 5: play massive minutes. 242 00:12:41,373 --> 00:12:44,093 Speaker 4: The World Cup Final, he played seventy eight odd minutes 243 00:12:44,133 --> 00:12:47,253 Speaker 4: before you know, Finlay Christie came off the bench and 244 00:12:47,813 --> 00:12:50,093 Speaker 4: just on that, you know, I think it really does 245 00:12:50,253 --> 00:12:53,253 Speaker 4: show the folly of that decision in the World Cup 246 00:12:53,333 --> 00:12:57,573 Speaker 4: knockout games that cam Roygard wasn't on the bench for 247 00:12:57,573 --> 00:13:01,413 Speaker 4: those knockout fixtures. But cam Roygard, as you mentioned with 248 00:13:01,493 --> 00:13:03,693 Speaker 4: the Bronco Test, he's one of the fittest in the 249 00:13:03,733 --> 00:13:06,853 Speaker 4: All Blacks. I think he was playing exceptionally well. You know, 250 00:13:06,893 --> 00:13:09,653 Speaker 4: he picked the pock for that tri a thief in 251 00:13:09,693 --> 00:13:14,333 Speaker 4: the Paris Knight. Brilliant piece of individual play there. But 252 00:13:14,453 --> 00:13:19,413 Speaker 4: also just his ability. His size is underrated, but you 253 00:13:19,453 --> 00:13:21,333 Speaker 4: know everyone looks at his running game and his big 254 00:13:21,413 --> 00:13:24,653 Speaker 4: left boot, but the All Blacks rap presentation as a 255 00:13:24,733 --> 00:13:27,253 Speaker 4: touched on before has not been great in the past 256 00:13:27,253 --> 00:13:30,453 Speaker 4: two weeks and canroy Guard copes with that very well. 257 00:13:30,453 --> 00:13:33,253 Speaker 4: Because of his size, he's able to shake off defenders, 258 00:13:33,293 --> 00:13:37,173 Speaker 4: he doesn't get too rattled there, and he was dealing 259 00:13:37,173 --> 00:13:41,173 Speaker 4: with that French pressure and you know, making good decisions. 260 00:13:41,213 --> 00:13:43,093 Speaker 5: So I would have left him out there a lot 261 00:13:43,213 --> 00:13:43,893 Speaker 5: a lot longer. 262 00:13:44,053 --> 00:13:47,493 Speaker 4: As you mentioned, upon played the full eighty minutes jameson 263 00:13:47,493 --> 00:13:50,693 Speaker 4: Gibson Park another huge influence for Ireland. He often plays 264 00:13:50,773 --> 00:13:53,973 Speaker 4: eighty minutes, so it is common for half backs to 265 00:13:53,973 --> 00:13:56,493 Speaker 4: play big minutes, so I think the All Blacks botched 266 00:13:56,573 --> 00:13:57,813 Speaker 4: that that change. 267 00:13:58,053 --> 00:14:00,973 Speaker 2: Yeah, quarters, Racham has had a good season on his 268 00:14:01,093 --> 00:14:03,693 Speaker 2: rookie year for the All Blacks, but just Fils over 269 00:14:03,693 --> 00:14:05,613 Speaker 2: the last two or three weeks has been a few 270 00:14:05,653 --> 00:14:10,013 Speaker 2: things that he needs some prove on heading into twenty 271 00:14:10,093 --> 00:14:12,693 Speaker 2: twenty five, and that comes with every position. I'm sure 272 00:14:13,413 --> 00:14:16,373 Speaker 2: on the park, let's talk before we wrap up around 273 00:14:16,413 --> 00:14:19,133 Speaker 2: the refereeing and both put the boot in too much. 274 00:14:19,293 --> 00:14:25,493 Speaker 2: But Nika Amisha Kelly. Again, the issue for me with 275 00:14:25,533 --> 00:14:28,013 Speaker 2: World Rugb at the moment is there are not enough 276 00:14:28,053 --> 00:14:30,893 Speaker 2: good referees to go around. I think that's plain and 277 00:14:30,973 --> 00:14:34,573 Speaker 2: simple the truth. At the moment, there are referees that 278 00:14:34,573 --> 00:14:37,613 Speaker 2: have been elevated too early. If you're in the UK, 279 00:14:37,773 --> 00:14:40,413 Speaker 2: you tend to get elevated on that path very early. 280 00:14:40,453 --> 00:14:43,773 Speaker 2: But they clearly want referees from around the merging nations. 281 00:14:43,773 --> 00:14:47,533 Speaker 2: That's why they've got Nika Amisha Kelly. He's had a 282 00:14:47,573 --> 00:14:49,893 Speaker 2: couple of All Blacks tests previously and other tests around 283 00:14:49,893 --> 00:14:53,293 Speaker 2: the globe. I think he struggled with the pace that 284 00:14:53,373 --> 00:14:56,173 Speaker 2: both teams are wanting to play at and made some 285 00:14:56,253 --> 00:15:02,453 Speaker 2: curious decisions, aided by his TMO that you had a 286 00:15:02,453 --> 00:15:04,573 Speaker 2: big influence on the game, the offer tong of Faci 287 00:15:04,653 --> 00:15:07,053 Speaker 2: nick Roll. While it's been three days, I'm still struggling 288 00:15:07,053 --> 00:15:09,213 Speaker 2: to see where exactly that was. And there were some 289 00:15:09,293 --> 00:15:12,333 Speaker 2: other ones as well. He seemed unwilling to reward the 290 00:15:12,373 --> 00:15:15,693 Speaker 2: all Blacks at scrum time, just didn't seem to want 291 00:15:15,733 --> 00:15:17,773 Speaker 2: to go near it. He gave one penalty and then 292 00:15:18,013 --> 00:15:21,413 Speaker 2: basically washed his hands of the whole affair. So I 293 00:15:21,413 --> 00:15:23,053 Speaker 2: don't want us to be seen as a criticism of 294 00:15:23,133 --> 00:15:25,573 Speaker 2: him necessarily, But I think the big issue with World 295 00:15:25,613 --> 00:15:27,893 Speaker 2: Rugby at the moment is the rulebook is too complicated. 296 00:15:28,173 --> 00:15:30,213 Speaker 2: There are very few referees who can keep up with 297 00:15:30,253 --> 00:15:32,773 Speaker 2: it and manage a game, which is essentially what they 298 00:15:32,813 --> 00:15:35,493 Speaker 2: have been tasked with as managing these games as well 299 00:15:35,533 --> 00:15:39,653 Speaker 2: as refereeing it. And now you've got referees that are 300 00:15:39,653 --> 00:15:42,733 Speaker 2: elevated above their station too early, and I think that's 301 00:15:43,213 --> 00:15:45,693 Speaker 2: partly why there are so many issues around it at 302 00:15:45,693 --> 00:15:46,053 Speaker 2: the moment. 303 00:15:47,373 --> 00:15:49,973 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a massive issue, and I do agree 304 00:15:50,013 --> 00:15:52,813 Speaker 4: about the standard of international refereeing on the whole seene 305 00:15:53,333 --> 00:15:56,493 Speaker 4: some very experienced referees, Wayne Barnes and the light move 306 00:15:56,533 --> 00:16:00,653 Speaker 4: on in recent years and the standard has dipped quite significantly. 307 00:16:00,773 --> 00:16:02,093 Speaker 5: And I also agree. 308 00:16:01,773 --> 00:16:07,373 Speaker 4: That there's a desire from World Rugby to promote these 309 00:16:07,413 --> 00:16:10,013 Speaker 4: guys on the basis that you want to cross section 310 00:16:10,093 --> 00:16:14,613 Speaker 4: of countries and as you mentioned, emerging nations. But there 311 00:16:14,693 --> 00:16:17,493 Speaker 4: there's always a bit of a lottery when he's in charge. 312 00:16:17,773 --> 00:16:20,653 Speaker 4: It's hard to escape that. And I don't think he 313 00:16:20,693 --> 00:16:22,813 Speaker 4: should be getting these big tests at this stage in 314 00:16:22,853 --> 00:16:27,213 Speaker 4: his career. Maybe he'll improve, but I don't think he's 315 00:16:27,213 --> 00:16:29,773 Speaker 4: there yet. And yeah, that neck role in the context 316 00:16:29,773 --> 00:16:33,533 Speaker 4: of that result, that was a terrible decision. That is 317 00:16:33,613 --> 00:16:37,413 Speaker 4: such a fifty to fifty call for the TMO to 318 00:16:37,453 --> 00:16:40,773 Speaker 4: intervene the scrum as well. Yeah, the All Blacks are 319 00:16:40,853 --> 00:16:45,173 Speaker 4: very dominant, pushing the French back and they weren't called 320 00:16:45,213 --> 00:16:49,653 Speaker 4: So that was definitely a contributing factor. It wasn't the 321 00:16:49,693 --> 00:16:51,693 Speaker 4: sole reason the All Blacks lost, but I think behind 322 00:16:51,693 --> 00:16:55,613 Speaker 4: closed doors there will be a lot of frustrations. Now, 323 00:16:55,693 --> 00:16:58,853 Speaker 4: now look, you know we've been reasonably critical, I guess 324 00:16:58,853 --> 00:17:02,893 Speaker 4: on the whole, but what about some of the individual performances, 325 00:17:03,093 --> 00:17:05,333 Speaker 4: for you, Elliott, for the All Blacks, one guy in particular, 326 00:17:05,373 --> 00:17:07,573 Speaker 4: Peter Luckeye comes off. 327 00:17:07,413 --> 00:17:08,893 Speaker 5: The bench and has set can test. 328 00:17:09,373 --> 00:17:13,013 Speaker 4: I was very vocal about the fact that I wanted 329 00:17:13,213 --> 00:17:16,893 Speaker 4: this guy, twenty one year old prospects been playing out 330 00:17:16,933 --> 00:17:18,973 Speaker 4: of his skin in the NPC and Super Ragby for 331 00:17:18,973 --> 00:17:21,893 Speaker 4: a couple of years. I wanted him in the squad 332 00:17:21,933 --> 00:17:23,853 Speaker 4: from the outset. He only got called up because the 333 00:17:23,933 --> 00:17:30,493 Speaker 4: injuries comes on play seventy eight minutes outstanding, EF it 334 00:17:30,613 --> 00:17:32,733 Speaker 4: wasn't it? And some others for you. 335 00:17:33,133 --> 00:17:34,013 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was excellent. 336 00:17:34,253 --> 00:17:37,493 Speaker 2: Very impressed by him coming and you know, one minute 337 00:17:37,533 --> 00:17:40,213 Speaker 2: forty five into the game, playing the reas much longer 338 00:17:40,213 --> 00:17:42,293 Speaker 2: than he would have expected. I thought he was superb 339 00:17:42,333 --> 00:17:44,933 Speaker 2: and that bodes really really well for the makeup of 340 00:17:44,933 --> 00:17:47,653 Speaker 2: that loose Ford trio comes twenty twenty five. Is going 341 00:17:47,693 --> 00:17:49,533 Speaker 2: to be interesting to see how that all shakes down 342 00:17:49,773 --> 00:17:54,573 Speaker 2: and which position each player finds themselves in. We just 343 00:17:54,613 --> 00:17:57,173 Speaker 2: mentioned the scrum, but I thought to Maati Williams was excellent, 344 00:17:57,213 --> 00:18:01,253 Speaker 2: probably his best test for mine. You know, there's been 345 00:18:01,293 --> 00:18:05,053 Speaker 2: a lot of conjecture back home around where Ethan de 346 00:18:05,093 --> 00:18:07,173 Speaker 2: Groot's gone through. Well we know where he went to 347 00:18:07,293 --> 00:18:10,533 Speaker 2: for England out of the team stood down, but time 348 00:18:10,613 --> 00:18:13,133 Speaker 2: to put some respect onto Mudy William's name because he 349 00:18:13,213 --> 00:18:16,973 Speaker 2: was excellent again and he was the previous week as well, 350 00:18:17,213 --> 00:18:19,053 Speaker 2: and I thought it was his best test. Didn't get 351 00:18:19,053 --> 00:18:21,613 Speaker 2: rewarded necessarily the penalties at scrum time, but I thought 352 00:18:21,613 --> 00:18:25,653 Speaker 2: he was superb. Cam Royguard obviously, as we touched on before, 353 00:18:25,693 --> 00:18:28,933 Speaker 2: I thought was a tet as at that point where 354 00:18:29,373 --> 00:18:33,013 Speaker 2: he's not having bad tests, he's everywhere and rdisav I 355 00:18:33,013 --> 00:18:35,373 Speaker 2: thought was his best test and a few tests as well. 356 00:18:35,453 --> 00:18:37,733 Speaker 2: So a lot to like actually from the All Blacks. 357 00:18:37,773 --> 00:18:41,173 Speaker 2: And here's the thing Liam, my dad messaged me after 358 00:18:41,213 --> 00:18:43,253 Speaker 2: the game and he made a very good point and 359 00:18:43,373 --> 00:18:45,813 Speaker 2: he said, if the All Blacks before the tour, you know, 360 00:18:46,813 --> 00:18:48,733 Speaker 2: would win two of those big games and lose the 361 00:18:48,773 --> 00:18:50,693 Speaker 2: other one by one, I think most people would have 362 00:18:50,773 --> 00:18:51,213 Speaker 2: taken it. 363 00:18:51,333 --> 00:18:51,813 Speaker 3: Would you have? 364 00:18:53,333 --> 00:18:54,053 Speaker 5: Yeah? I would have. 365 00:18:54,453 --> 00:18:56,773 Speaker 4: It is a good point. I think both of us 366 00:18:56,973 --> 00:19:01,413 Speaker 4: predicted that'd go. They dropped one test on the tour, 367 00:19:01,533 --> 00:19:04,693 Speaker 4: and as I mentioned last part, I think he really 368 00:19:04,733 --> 00:19:06,973 Speaker 4: struck some form in the tipping department because he said 369 00:19:06,973 --> 00:19:07,813 Speaker 4: that beat Island. 370 00:19:07,813 --> 00:19:10,733 Speaker 5: I said that to Ireland. You said they lose to France. 371 00:19:10,773 --> 00:19:13,293 Speaker 4: I said they beat Front So yeah, who knows you 372 00:19:13,373 --> 00:19:17,013 Speaker 4: might be able to flip the script and carry that momentum. 373 00:19:17,013 --> 00:19:20,293 Speaker 4: But on the context of this tour, I think on 374 00:19:20,373 --> 00:19:23,533 Speaker 4: the provisor that they do beat Italy and put out 375 00:19:24,813 --> 00:19:26,333 Speaker 4: a comprehensive performance there. 376 00:19:27,413 --> 00:19:28,133 Speaker 5: It's been. 377 00:19:29,613 --> 00:19:32,333 Speaker 4: Surprising, I think from the All Blacks, but there is 378 00:19:32,413 --> 00:19:34,573 Speaker 4: context to that as well. They could have easily dropped 379 00:19:34,573 --> 00:19:39,813 Speaker 4: that England test, So there is improvement. There is evolution 380 00:19:39,933 --> 00:19:42,213 Speaker 4: from this all Black team, but it's just it is 381 00:19:42,293 --> 00:19:45,653 Speaker 4: frustrating that they let that test slip because it was 382 00:19:45,693 --> 00:19:47,693 Speaker 4: there for the taking. Just one other player that you 383 00:19:47,973 --> 00:19:51,533 Speaker 4: didn't mention, Caleb Clark. I think he was outstanding on 384 00:19:51,573 --> 00:19:55,053 Speaker 4: the left wing, made big meters with every touch, seems 385 00:19:55,053 --> 00:19:57,973 Speaker 4: to be getting involved a lot, and he's a guy 386 00:19:57,973 --> 00:20:00,933 Speaker 4: that wasn't really in the picture, you know a year ago, 387 00:20:01,133 --> 00:20:05,133 Speaker 4: struggled to crack this all Black team. So he cemented 388 00:20:05,173 --> 00:20:07,173 Speaker 4: that left wing role. And I think we also saw 389 00:20:07,853 --> 00:20:12,253 Speaker 4: Mark Tale. His absence was massive and the loyalty I think, 390 00:20:12,293 --> 00:20:16,253 Speaker 4: and severa Reese has been misplaced. He got that one 391 00:20:16,293 --> 00:20:19,293 Speaker 4: incept but then lacked pace and then for the runaway 392 00:20:19,293 --> 00:20:25,053 Speaker 4: trier for France that was very stark hit. Severa Reese's 393 00:20:25,133 --> 00:20:27,733 Speaker 4: lack of pace and just how blitzed he got, so 394 00:20:27,933 --> 00:20:31,853 Speaker 4: I think interesting to see where that goes. But Mark 395 00:20:31,853 --> 00:20:35,573 Speaker 4: de Lea's absence on the right wing really felt and 396 00:20:35,693 --> 00:20:38,013 Speaker 4: Artie Severe as you mentioned, back to his back to 397 00:20:38,053 --> 00:20:41,293 Speaker 4: the future, wasn't it going reverting to open soide flanker 398 00:20:41,813 --> 00:20:44,693 Speaker 4: roaming the wide channels. He had a big influence in 399 00:20:44,733 --> 00:20:49,733 Speaker 4: Peter Luckeye's opening try busting tackles. So the composition of 400 00:20:49,773 --> 00:20:52,413 Speaker 4: that loose for trio very intriguing going forward. 401 00:20:52,853 --> 00:20:56,853 Speaker 2: Indeed, it is one Reese I think you know, you 402 00:20:56,853 --> 00:20:59,213 Speaker 2: mentioned Calen Park was out of form or wasn't part 403 00:20:59,253 --> 00:21:01,293 Speaker 2: of the squad a year ago. You know, maybe the 404 00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:03,133 Speaker 2: same will happen with severa Reese and we're here in 405 00:21:03,173 --> 00:21:06,533 Speaker 2: a years time saying, you know, he's found his way 406 00:21:06,533 --> 00:21:09,373 Speaker 2: back in, but it feels like he is drifting out 407 00:21:09,373 --> 00:21:12,373 Speaker 2: of this all blacks environment at the moment, just in 408 00:21:12,453 --> 00:21:15,693 Speaker 2: terms of his necessity to be there. 409 00:21:15,773 --> 00:21:19,453 Speaker 3: In all honesty, as you mentioned, Mark Kalaier was superb, but. 410 00:21:19,493 --> 00:21:22,813 Speaker 2: I just think that he doesn't have the pace anymore. 411 00:21:22,893 --> 00:21:25,293 Speaker 3: He came up the fact of that big injury. Of 412 00:21:25,333 --> 00:21:26,573 Speaker 3: course in twenty twenty three. 413 00:21:27,013 --> 00:21:29,813 Speaker 2: He's very good in super rugby and a poor crusader's side, 414 00:21:29,853 --> 00:21:32,613 Speaker 2: But just feels like father time might be catching up 415 00:21:32,653 --> 00:21:35,093 Speaker 2: a little bit with Seva Reese. He's twenty seven now, which, 416 00:21:35,133 --> 00:21:37,533 Speaker 2: as we know, is the year that All Blacks wingers 417 00:21:37,893 --> 00:21:39,813 Speaker 2: basically no longer worth anything. 418 00:21:39,933 --> 00:21:42,973 Speaker 3: So I mean that in the kindest possible way. 419 00:21:43,773 --> 00:21:46,773 Speaker 2: So look, you know, there's a big question mark I 420 00:21:46,773 --> 00:21:50,173 Speaker 2: think over him heading into twenty twenty five, isn't there? 421 00:21:51,173 --> 00:21:51,893 Speaker 5: There is? Indeed? 422 00:21:52,053 --> 00:21:54,613 Speaker 4: And what about just the blueprint for the All Blacks, 423 00:21:54,613 --> 00:21:57,533 Speaker 4: because it was very notable in this game the lack 424 00:21:57,573 --> 00:22:00,573 Speaker 4: of kicking, so clearly they didn't want to get into 425 00:22:00,853 --> 00:22:04,093 Speaker 4: you know, aerial ping pong with France because of DuPont. 426 00:22:03,813 --> 00:22:06,493 Speaker 5: And the French liking they kick. 427 00:22:06,813 --> 00:22:09,493 Speaker 4: France kept longer and more often than any other team 428 00:22:09,493 --> 00:22:11,933 Speaker 4: in international rugby, so they've clearly done their homework. 429 00:22:11,973 --> 00:22:14,133 Speaker 5: There will Jordan cart and the ball back. 430 00:22:15,093 --> 00:22:18,253 Speaker 4: I think they probably the balance tip too far into 431 00:22:18,853 --> 00:22:21,813 Speaker 4: holding the ball and maybe a bit of fatigue in 432 00:22:21,853 --> 00:22:26,933 Speaker 4: the second half contributed to those costly handling errors. But 433 00:22:27,213 --> 00:22:29,733 Speaker 4: I do like that from the All Blacks that they 434 00:22:29,773 --> 00:22:33,613 Speaker 4: are wanting to attack. They're wanting to use the width 435 00:22:33,613 --> 00:22:38,013 Speaker 4: and stretch teams and bring attacking chaos to their game 436 00:22:38,853 --> 00:22:41,493 Speaker 4: and it did work for them in the first half, 437 00:22:41,973 --> 00:22:44,613 Speaker 4: but just finding that balance it's tough, isn't it. Ali 438 00:22:44,693 --> 00:22:47,573 Speaker 4: and the international arena between the short kicking game, to 439 00:22:47,773 --> 00:22:51,133 Speaker 4: counter rush defense, to shape the defense and get them behind, 440 00:22:51,653 --> 00:22:56,173 Speaker 4: and to use your attacking instincts and offloads and ball 441 00:22:56,253 --> 00:22:59,293 Speaker 4: movement and skill that is right across the park with 442 00:22:59,413 --> 00:23:01,373 Speaker 4: this aw Black team when you talk about to Mighty 443 00:23:01,413 --> 00:23:04,813 Speaker 4: Williams and Wallace a tt and to provide and you 444 00:23:04,853 --> 00:23:07,493 Speaker 4: know how athletic is this saw book full pack. They 445 00:23:07,493 --> 00:23:10,013 Speaker 4: are outstanding, but you've got to strike that balance and 446 00:23:10,093 --> 00:23:12,053 Speaker 4: maybe it just tipped it a little bit too far. 447 00:23:13,013 --> 00:23:14,693 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it did have a little too far. 448 00:23:14,773 --> 00:23:17,813 Speaker 2: What I do like, though, Liam, is the game plans 449 00:23:17,813 --> 00:23:22,213 Speaker 2: that are in place, and largely they are working for 450 00:23:22,253 --> 00:23:24,493 Speaker 2: the All Blacks. Obviously that was a defeat on the weekend, 451 00:23:24,573 --> 00:23:27,213 Speaker 2: but there are tweaks to the game plans that we're 452 00:23:27,253 --> 00:23:30,253 Speaker 2: seeing for different opposition that I think are paying dividends. 453 00:23:30,293 --> 00:23:32,013 Speaker 2: And you've got to have those things in your back 454 00:23:32,053 --> 00:23:34,573 Speaker 2: pocket as a test team. A plan A, plan B, 455 00:23:34,693 --> 00:23:37,773 Speaker 2: Plan C for how the opposition attack, and I think 456 00:23:37,813 --> 00:23:40,533 Speaker 2: we're seeing that from the All Blacks now but there 457 00:23:40,573 --> 00:23:43,333 Speaker 2: are different strategies in place, so that to me is 458 00:23:43,773 --> 00:23:47,093 Speaker 2: a pretty big tick. Let's move on to what we 459 00:23:47,173 --> 00:23:51,893 Speaker 2: expect this weekend against Italy and the final test of 460 00:23:51,893 --> 00:23:55,413 Speaker 2: the year in churin, Italy. Coming off a narrow win 461 00:23:55,533 --> 00:23:59,333 Speaker 2: over Georgia on the weekend. What's your expectation for the 462 00:23:59,373 --> 00:24:02,213 Speaker 2: team that will be selected by the All Blacks announced 463 00:24:02,453 --> 00:24:06,013 Speaker 2: Friday morning amongst the snowstorm on Thursday here in Turin 464 00:24:06,573 --> 00:24:10,893 Speaker 2: Liam Will it be whole sale changes, minimal changes somewhere 465 00:24:10,893 --> 00:24:11,413 Speaker 2: in between. 466 00:24:12,693 --> 00:24:14,093 Speaker 5: I think it'll be wholesale, Elliott. 467 00:24:14,133 --> 00:24:17,773 Speaker 4: That's been a big old year, massive three weeks for 468 00:24:17,813 --> 00:24:20,613 Speaker 4: the All Blacks. Those grueling tests I think they were 469 00:24:20,773 --> 00:24:23,093 Speaker 4: basically in the space of fifteen days, so it's got 470 00:24:23,093 --> 00:24:26,893 Speaker 4: to be some massive fatigue and batter than bruised bodies 471 00:24:26,893 --> 00:24:27,973 Speaker 4: among those starters. 472 00:24:28,013 --> 00:24:31,173 Speaker 5: So I think you'll see Sam Kine and CJ. 473 00:24:31,293 --> 00:24:34,573 Speaker 4: Petinara come back for their last outings for the All Blacks. 474 00:24:34,613 --> 00:24:37,373 Speaker 4: I think you'll see probably Damien McKenzie start at tech 475 00:24:37,373 --> 00:24:40,613 Speaker 4: and again Stephen Peter Fetter at fullback. I think guys 476 00:24:40,693 --> 00:24:45,293 Speaker 4: like Brocton need to come into the midfields. I think 477 00:24:45,373 --> 00:24:48,013 Speaker 4: there will be wholesale changes Ethan de Groot, I imagine 478 00:24:48,253 --> 00:24:50,333 Speaker 4: comes back for a start. He's been out in the cold, 479 00:24:50,333 --> 00:24:56,053 Speaker 4: as you mentioned, following the discipline issue. Good what is 480 00:24:56,093 --> 00:24:59,013 Speaker 4: it three weeks ago now and you've got guys in 481 00:24:59,013 --> 00:25:01,613 Speaker 4: the squad who would have been holding tackle pads, preparing 482 00:25:01,653 --> 00:25:05,093 Speaker 4: the starters, and they need to finish the year with 483 00:25:05,213 --> 00:25:07,733 Speaker 4: some sort of some form of encouragement. 484 00:25:07,813 --> 00:25:10,573 Speaker 5: So Italy haven't been great. 485 00:25:10,893 --> 00:25:14,733 Speaker 4: You know, you mentioned the Georgian result there, but they've 486 00:25:14,773 --> 00:25:19,533 Speaker 4: struggled in recent weeks to really put any compelling form together. 487 00:25:19,653 --> 00:25:24,493 Speaker 4: So I think you'll see something close to the Japanese 488 00:25:24,493 --> 00:25:27,613 Speaker 4: team because a number of those guys haven't played since. 489 00:25:27,613 --> 00:25:29,533 Speaker 5: You know, they need a chance, don't they They do. 490 00:25:29,813 --> 00:25:32,613 Speaker 2: I don't know that Ovia his wholesale as that necessarily 491 00:25:32,653 --> 00:25:34,573 Speaker 2: look at. I think you look at some players like 492 00:25:35,053 --> 00:25:39,293 Speaker 2: Cody Taylor. You know he set out the Island Test stuffer. 493 00:25:39,373 --> 00:25:42,173 Speaker 2: Amoa had two big tests in a row, one by 494 00:25:42,533 --> 00:25:46,573 Speaker 2: design one by Taylor going off against England. So I 495 00:25:46,613 --> 00:25:50,293 Speaker 2: think Taylor might start this week again Ethan de Groot. Certainly, 496 00:25:50,653 --> 00:25:54,413 Speaker 2: maybe Passily Otossa gets the start. I wonder with Semipenny 497 00:25:54,413 --> 00:25:56,773 Speaker 2: Feenal being out with they look at Scott Barrett on 498 00:25:56,813 --> 00:26:00,093 Speaker 2: the blind given perhaps the lack of options in the 499 00:26:00,173 --> 00:26:03,973 Speaker 2: squad around that position. Whilst the Titi has had four 500 00:26:04,013 --> 00:26:06,053 Speaker 2: tests in a row now, he's had a big year, 501 00:26:06,093 --> 00:26:09,453 Speaker 2: he's nominated for a World Rugby Award. I just you know, 502 00:26:09,573 --> 00:26:12,213 Speaker 2: you wonder whether they just need to give him a 503 00:26:12,253 --> 00:26:15,053 Speaker 2: little bit of a spell, even though he's about to 504 00:26:15,093 --> 00:26:18,813 Speaker 2: get into his off season. So you know, Boden Barratt 505 00:26:18,853 --> 00:26:20,413 Speaker 2: miss that test as well, So there's a few things 506 00:26:20,453 --> 00:26:20,893 Speaker 2: to balance. 507 00:26:20,893 --> 00:26:24,013 Speaker 3: Sam Kaine, you'd suspect will start. T J Petanarra maybe 508 00:26:24,013 --> 00:26:24,493 Speaker 3: gets a. 509 00:26:24,413 --> 00:26:27,493 Speaker 2: Fee weell test off the bench as well, and then 510 00:26:27,533 --> 00:26:30,373 Speaker 2: you maybe look at David Havali Anton then a Brown 511 00:26:31,093 --> 00:26:32,933 Speaker 2: getting some game time as well. But there are a 512 00:26:32,933 --> 00:26:35,973 Speaker 2: few balances, and there's probably going to be some players 513 00:26:35,973 --> 00:26:38,573 Speaker 2: that are you know, short on game time and we're 514 00:26:38,613 --> 00:26:40,213 Speaker 2: not going to get much game time on this tour. 515 00:26:40,253 --> 00:26:43,453 Speaker 3: But sometimes the way the cookie crumbles. 516 00:26:43,613 --> 00:26:46,413 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's Ruben Loves one guy that we haven't really mentioned. 517 00:26:46,453 --> 00:26:49,493 Speaker 4: He only got five or ten minutes off the bench 518 00:26:49,493 --> 00:26:52,933 Speaker 4: against Japan on the right wing, but one of the 519 00:26:52,973 --> 00:26:57,293 Speaker 4: most I think exciting attacking prospects very much, and he's 520 00:26:57,413 --> 00:26:58,853 Speaker 4: on rugby very much in the in the in the 521 00:26:58,893 --> 00:27:01,893 Speaker 4: will Jordan Mold so I'd like to see him include 522 00:27:01,893 --> 00:27:03,893 Speaker 4: it off the bench and give him, you know, good 523 00:27:04,253 --> 00:27:08,293 Speaker 4: good stint in the second half. But and Billy Prop 524 00:27:08,493 --> 00:27:11,133 Speaker 4: as well as the guy that hasn't had enough game 525 00:27:11,173 --> 00:27:15,373 Speaker 4: time this year in my mind, So for me, I 526 00:27:15,373 --> 00:27:17,613 Speaker 4: think it'd be great to see him start at center 527 00:27:17,693 --> 00:27:20,773 Speaker 4: and get another crack because I think he's only played 528 00:27:20,893 --> 00:27:25,013 Speaker 4: two tests this year if I'm right, in Fiji and Japan, 529 00:27:25,173 --> 00:27:29,173 Speaker 4: and he was the form midfielder throughout Super ab So 530 00:27:29,173 --> 00:27:32,133 Speaker 4: pretty keen to see him get another run around. No surprises, Elliott, 531 00:27:32,213 --> 00:27:35,013 Speaker 4: that's wanting to see a few more Hurricanes in the mix. 532 00:27:35,253 --> 00:27:36,853 Speaker 2: No, I'm just not sure he's come back from the 533 00:27:36,853 --> 00:27:39,453 Speaker 2: birth of his first child. Is the only things that 534 00:27:39,533 --> 00:27:42,333 Speaker 2: may keep him out of the mix. I know you've 535 00:27:42,333 --> 00:27:43,973 Speaker 2: been banging the drum for some time. You'd like to 536 00:27:44,013 --> 00:27:46,293 Speaker 2: see Schaffie Hockey in the team as well. 537 00:27:47,853 --> 00:27:48,093 Speaker 5: Well. 538 00:27:48,453 --> 00:27:51,693 Speaker 4: Look, I think there's a ecuoy in New Zealand as 539 00:27:51,693 --> 00:27:54,653 Speaker 4: we speak, Elliott, and fair to say, I think people 540 00:27:54,693 --> 00:27:57,653 Speaker 4: are already taken to the streets about Shaffie Hockey's inclusion, 541 00:27:57,733 --> 00:28:00,933 Speaker 4: so Razors should tread very carefully on that front. 542 00:28:01,173 --> 00:28:03,653 Speaker 2: Yeah, be your idea enough before we wrap up Harry 543 00:28:03,653 --> 00:28:06,173 Speaker 2: Plummer sounds like he's going to go to ACM Clement 544 00:28:06,813 --> 00:28:12,093 Speaker 2: and continuous rugby Korea thereafter Super Rugby in twenty twenty five. Look, 545 00:28:12,973 --> 00:28:16,253 Speaker 2: you sometimes you take those reports in French media with 546 00:28:16,293 --> 00:28:19,893 Speaker 2: a grain of salt, but the soult has been spread 547 00:28:19,933 --> 00:28:25,373 Speaker 2: around relatively wide in this instance in French media over 548 00:28:25,373 --> 00:28:27,933 Speaker 2: the last twenty four to forty eight hours. Sounds like 549 00:28:27,973 --> 00:28:32,893 Speaker 2: he's going certainly my understanding anyway, and you know, off 550 00:28:32,933 --> 00:28:34,653 Speaker 2: the back of his one test for the All Blacks 551 00:28:34,693 --> 00:28:38,253 Speaker 2: this year he's currently injured, not with the team in camp. Look, 552 00:28:38,493 --> 00:28:40,373 Speaker 2: you know, good on them for going and chasing the 553 00:28:41,773 --> 00:28:43,653 Speaker 2: overseas deal. But I think it's a bit of a 554 00:28:43,693 --> 00:28:45,693 Speaker 2: lost to New Zealand rugby when Harry Plumber goes. 555 00:28:47,013 --> 00:28:48,173 Speaker 5: It will be a loss, it is. 556 00:28:49,053 --> 00:28:51,773 Speaker 4: I guess it's a shame that a guy, you know, 557 00:28:51,813 --> 00:28:54,413 Speaker 4: coming into the prime of career, he's done the hard yards, 558 00:28:54,453 --> 00:28:57,413 Speaker 4: through injury and come through a lot of adversity and 559 00:28:57,613 --> 00:29:01,053 Speaker 4: then leads the Blues to a Super Rugby title, probably 560 00:29:01,133 --> 00:29:04,613 Speaker 4: the most unheralded first five to a degree in New 561 00:29:04,693 --> 00:29:05,253 Speaker 4: Zealand rugby. 562 00:29:05,333 --> 00:29:05,653 Speaker 5: History. 563 00:29:05,693 --> 00:29:11,813 Speaker 4: Really, the Blues have had Carlos Beer and Bowden Barrett and. 564 00:29:10,853 --> 00:29:12,733 Speaker 5: How many other you know. 565 00:29:13,333 --> 00:29:16,173 Speaker 4: First Five's pumped up to be the next big thing 566 00:29:16,253 --> 00:29:19,493 Speaker 4: and Harry Plumber, local boy comes through and takes them 567 00:29:19,533 --> 00:29:23,453 Speaker 4: to their first title and you know, twenty odd odd years. 568 00:29:23,493 --> 00:29:26,933 Speaker 4: So look, he's he's It's a smart move for Harry. 569 00:29:26,973 --> 00:29:32,053 Speaker 4: I think that his pathway to the All Blacks is 570 00:29:32,133 --> 00:29:36,053 Speaker 4: largely blocked, particularly with Richard Mwonga highly likely to come 571 00:29:36,093 --> 00:29:38,893 Speaker 4: back in July next year. 572 00:29:39,693 --> 00:29:40,933 Speaker 5: He's got an All Blacks cat. 573 00:29:40,813 --> 00:29:43,053 Speaker 4: Beside his name now, Harry Plumber, so your cash and 574 00:29:43,173 --> 00:29:46,973 Speaker 4: while that's hot, and I'm sure he's been offered a 575 00:29:46,973 --> 00:29:49,573 Speaker 4: great deal and it'll be a great lifestyle for him 576 00:29:50,013 --> 00:29:54,213 Speaker 4: in France. Also here in Ricky Ricky Talley Elliott's likely 577 00:29:54,253 --> 00:29:59,173 Speaker 4: off to Montpellier as well, So I think that will 578 00:29:59,173 --> 00:30:03,133 Speaker 4: probably be for twenty twenty what's that twenty twenty sixth. 579 00:30:04,533 --> 00:30:07,293 Speaker 4: So yeah, the Blues, I guess losing a couple of 580 00:30:07,333 --> 00:30:09,573 Speaker 4: guys who are interested me too on their title and 581 00:30:09,893 --> 00:30:12,613 Speaker 4: the coming years. But it does make sense for the 582 00:30:12,893 --> 00:30:15,293 Speaker 4: stage of career that they're they're at, doesn't it. 583 00:30:15,293 --> 00:30:18,773 Speaker 2: It does, And you know, I think both players you 584 00:30:18,813 --> 00:30:22,853 Speaker 2: can't begrudge them going overseas that at the point. For 585 00:30:22,933 --> 00:30:25,613 Speaker 2: rookie Rocqauseilley, clearly the writings on the wall around his 586 00:30:26,213 --> 00:30:29,253 Speaker 2: All Blacks ambitions given he to the All Blacks fifteen Tour, 587 00:30:29,773 --> 00:30:32,293 Speaker 2: and Harry Plummer probably get the sense of where he 588 00:30:32,413 --> 00:30:35,853 Speaker 2: is in the pecking order and I think, yeah, I 589 00:30:35,893 --> 00:30:39,293 Speaker 2: think that's probably about right for both of those players. 590 00:30:39,293 --> 00:30:41,813 Speaker 2: But again, it just takes away that that middle crust 591 00:30:41,853 --> 00:30:45,333 Speaker 2: from New Zealand rugby and some of those key players 592 00:30:45,773 --> 00:30:49,493 Speaker 2: you know around Super Rugby and the NPC that have 593 00:30:49,533 --> 00:30:52,893 Speaker 2: been you know, formative for their provinces, formative for their 594 00:30:52,933 --> 00:30:56,173 Speaker 2: Super Rugby teams in some success in recent years. Just 595 00:30:56,253 --> 00:30:58,893 Speaker 2: losing that middle layer I think does hurt. 596 00:30:58,973 --> 00:30:59,973 Speaker 3: So yeah, big. 597 00:30:59,813 --> 00:31:03,653 Speaker 2: Loss for both of those players, all their respective unions 598 00:31:03,693 --> 00:31:06,213 Speaker 2: and of course the Blues as well. We will take 599 00:31:06,253 --> 00:31:09,853 Speaker 2: a break here on Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions 600 00:31:10,253 --> 00:31:13,213 Speaker 2: and come back with the final four after this. 601 00:31:13,213 --> 00:31:17,253 Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans. 602 00:31:21,133 --> 00:31:24,733 Speaker 2: Try it had sixty secondary tackle get up age. 603 00:31:28,053 --> 00:31:30,013 Speaker 5: Before It's Rugby Direct. 604 00:31:31,893 --> 00:31:34,453 Speaker 2: Back now on Rugby Direct with the final four for 605 00:31:34,613 --> 00:31:39,053 Speaker 2: rugby topics. Them and I had debate them all, Liam, 606 00:31:39,493 --> 00:31:44,733 Speaker 2: the continued chatter on the live if one style rugby tournament. 607 00:31:45,213 --> 00:31:48,213 Speaker 2: Another report over the weekend, if I recall rightly it 608 00:31:48,213 --> 00:31:50,773 Speaker 2: was in the Times, might have been the Telegraph, I'm 609 00:31:50,773 --> 00:31:54,253 Speaker 2: trying to think, but certainly one of the UK based papers, 610 00:31:54,253 --> 00:31:57,773 Speaker 2: similar detail to what we've seen previous week or so 611 00:31:58,173 --> 00:32:00,053 Speaker 2: a little bit more said that a lot of players 612 00:32:00,093 --> 00:32:04,413 Speaker 2: are on or have been targeted, with deal sort of 613 00:32:05,333 --> 00:32:10,173 Speaker 2: tentatively in place. Hard to know too much about this 614 00:32:10,253 --> 00:32:14,173 Speaker 2: given it's all shrouded in secrecy, but should world rugby 615 00:32:14,213 --> 00:32:14,973 Speaker 2: be concerned? 616 00:32:15,293 --> 00:32:17,653 Speaker 3: Are you concerned around the way this is tracking? 617 00:32:19,333 --> 00:32:19,613 Speaker 1: Well? 618 00:32:19,693 --> 00:32:22,733 Speaker 4: Where there's smoke this fire, Elliott, So I think there 619 00:32:22,773 --> 00:32:25,853 Speaker 4: needs to be a degree of concern, but we don't 620 00:32:25,893 --> 00:32:30,413 Speaker 4: know yet. There's no concrete information about who's the money man, 621 00:32:30,493 --> 00:32:32,813 Speaker 4: where's the money coming from? And that's the big question here, 622 00:32:33,213 --> 00:32:36,773 Speaker 4: how much does this evolve? Because I did have a 623 00:32:36,773 --> 00:32:40,893 Speaker 4: few background conversations on this yesterday, and you're talking about 624 00:32:41,173 --> 00:32:45,813 Speaker 4: somewhere in the vicinity of four hundred to five million 625 00:32:45,853 --> 00:32:47,853 Speaker 4: dollars that you're going to need to back something like this. 626 00:32:47,973 --> 00:32:51,133 Speaker 4: You're looking at two hundred and forty men's players, one 627 00:32:51,253 --> 00:32:54,293 Speaker 4: hundred and twenty women's players fourteen games a bit of 628 00:32:54,293 --> 00:32:59,493 Speaker 4: a traveling circus, so it's a massive amounts of financial 629 00:32:59,493 --> 00:33:01,613 Speaker 4: backing that you need to pull something like this off. 630 00:33:02,133 --> 00:33:05,733 Speaker 4: But this isn't going away, is it. As you mentioned, 631 00:33:05,733 --> 00:33:08,573 Speaker 4: we discussed this a couple of weeks ago, and it 632 00:33:08,613 --> 00:33:12,093 Speaker 4: now does seem to be gathering some steam. I think 633 00:33:12,333 --> 00:33:16,453 Speaker 4: players in England in particular maybe the first to jump 634 00:33:16,493 --> 00:33:17,293 Speaker 4: and get on board. 635 00:33:17,293 --> 00:33:21,173 Speaker 5: There's a bit of friction there between the players and the. 636 00:33:21,253 --> 00:33:25,733 Speaker 4: Union and and then wanting wanting more, and and the 637 00:33:26,173 --> 00:33:29,693 Speaker 4: local landscape they're changing. So interesting to see where it goes. 638 00:33:30,453 --> 00:33:36,333 Speaker 4: But I'm curious. I need more detail. And it does 639 00:33:36,413 --> 00:33:39,053 Speaker 4: come down to dollars and cents, doesn't it. Who's going 640 00:33:39,133 --> 00:33:42,453 Speaker 4: to stump up with what is some serious amount of 641 00:33:42,453 --> 00:33:45,453 Speaker 4: money to make this get off the ground. 642 00:33:46,133 --> 00:33:48,493 Speaker 2: Indeed, Rugby's had a history of this sort of stuff. 643 00:33:48,853 --> 00:33:52,973 Speaker 2: There was Global Rapid Rugby which promised plenty, there were 644 00:33:53,013 --> 00:33:56,173 Speaker 2: the twelves for a half second. There have been other 645 00:33:56,813 --> 00:34:01,053 Speaker 2: things that have gone on previously. It'll either go one 646 00:34:01,093 --> 00:34:04,133 Speaker 2: of two ways. I suppose It'll be like either those 647 00:34:04,533 --> 00:34:08,293 Speaker 2: aforementioned things, or it will be like the you know, 648 00:34:08,493 --> 00:34:13,253 Speaker 2: WRC five and could threaten to pull the game apart, 649 00:34:13,293 --> 00:34:17,093 Speaker 2: sput the game in two, and the only benefit from 650 00:34:17,133 --> 00:34:21,493 Speaker 2: the latter would be it may force World Rugby into 651 00:34:22,013 --> 00:34:26,373 Speaker 2: making changes. And you know, sometimes, you know, a threat 652 00:34:26,453 --> 00:34:31,693 Speaker 2: like this can elevate and make things happen more quickly. 653 00:34:31,933 --> 00:34:35,973 Speaker 2: You get into a sense of single swim mode, so 654 00:34:36,533 --> 00:34:39,733 Speaker 2: and may force them into doing things outside the box. 655 00:34:39,773 --> 00:34:42,653 Speaker 2: I don't know but what they might be. But sometimes 656 00:34:42,693 --> 00:34:45,653 Speaker 2: a bit of pressure is, you know, is what sport 657 00:34:46,373 --> 00:34:50,413 Speaker 2: sports organizations need. Not saying it's a good thing by 658 00:34:50,453 --> 00:34:52,853 Speaker 2: any measure, but sometimes you know, a little bit of 659 00:34:52,853 --> 00:34:56,133 Speaker 2: heat breathing down the neck isn't necessarily the worst thing 660 00:34:56,213 --> 00:34:58,333 Speaker 2: for some of the you know, the global power brokers, 661 00:34:58,413 --> 00:35:02,413 Speaker 2: be they World Rugby or some of the international national federations. 662 00:35:03,253 --> 00:35:05,893 Speaker 5: That's right, And look, the landscape is changing. 663 00:35:05,973 --> 00:35:09,053 Speaker 4: If you look at some of the the players, even 664 00:35:09,093 --> 00:35:12,973 Speaker 4: in the New Zealand landscape. Artie Severe is a massive 665 00:35:13,293 --> 00:35:18,093 Speaker 4: icon somebody who knows is worth. So if something like 666 00:35:18,133 --> 00:35:20,893 Speaker 4: this is floating around, I have no doubt that uziand 667 00:35:20,973 --> 00:35:24,013 Speaker 4: rugby players will look at it and see what's on offer, 668 00:35:24,813 --> 00:35:28,053 Speaker 4: decide what's best for them, and you know, weigh things 669 00:35:28,133 --> 00:35:32,893 Speaker 4: up when you look at the top All Blacks. We've 670 00:35:32,893 --> 00:35:34,973 Speaker 4: seen in recent years many of them go to Japan 671 00:35:35,053 --> 00:35:38,493 Speaker 4: and come back, So there is a potential for them 672 00:35:38,533 --> 00:35:41,973 Speaker 4: to go to this breakaway World League if it does 673 00:35:42,213 --> 00:35:46,013 Speaker 4: fit in the international calendar. But the All Blacks are 674 00:35:46,053 --> 00:35:49,413 Speaker 4: still a massive lure. The World Cup still a massive lure. 675 00:35:49,453 --> 00:35:53,293 Speaker 4: International rugby is the cream dela creme, and we've seen 676 00:35:53,293 --> 00:35:54,173 Speaker 4: that in recent weeks. 677 00:35:54,213 --> 00:35:57,093 Speaker 5: Haven't we the stage in France? Who were there in Paris? 678 00:35:57,653 --> 00:36:00,733 Speaker 4: What a magnificent atmosphere and occasion and players want to 679 00:36:00,733 --> 00:36:03,173 Speaker 4: be on that stage. So if they have to give 680 00:36:03,213 --> 00:36:06,253 Speaker 4: that up to go and play in this breakaway league, 681 00:36:07,253 --> 00:36:09,933 Speaker 4: I think that would be very hard for them because 682 00:36:10,053 --> 00:36:13,693 Speaker 4: money isn't everything and playing on those big stages, representing 683 00:36:13,693 --> 00:36:17,213 Speaker 4: their country, playing at the pinnacle of the sport is 684 00:36:17,293 --> 00:36:21,293 Speaker 4: still a massive driver for athletes in the prime of 685 00:36:21,333 --> 00:36:21,893 Speaker 4: their careers. 686 00:36:22,093 --> 00:36:24,773 Speaker 2: Yeah, World Rugby needs to protect that and not go 687 00:36:24,853 --> 00:36:30,293 Speaker 2: the way of cricket where franchise sport franchise cricket rules 688 00:36:31,093 --> 00:36:34,733 Speaker 2: international cricket has done for a few years now. So 689 00:36:34,813 --> 00:36:37,853 Speaker 2: World Rugby does need to be cognizant of the threats. 690 00:36:38,093 --> 00:36:43,053 Speaker 2: Speaking of World Rugby Award nominees, Outs and Sprinkling of 691 00:36:43,053 --> 00:36:46,133 Speaker 2: New Zealand is nominated, what Iss the Tity, Breakthrough Player 692 00:36:46,133 --> 00:36:48,733 Speaker 2: of the Year, Hannah King, the Black Fans Pivot and 693 00:36:48,933 --> 00:36:52,373 Speaker 2: Breakthrough Women's Player of the Year, michaleebe Blyth, Georgia Miller 694 00:36:53,253 --> 00:36:57,213 Speaker 2: in the Sevens Awards, and Georgia Ponsonby as well nominated 695 00:36:57,253 --> 00:37:00,293 Speaker 2: for Women's Teens Try of the Year. But from a 696 00:37:00,333 --> 00:37:04,133 Speaker 2: wider picture of Liam, any surprises are missions that stood 697 00:37:04,133 --> 00:37:07,893 Speaker 2: out for you. 698 00:37:06,253 --> 00:37:07,173 Speaker 5: Not on the whole Elliot. 699 00:37:07,213 --> 00:37:10,213 Speaker 4: It's great to see using a woman well represented, which 700 00:37:10,293 --> 00:37:13,893 Speaker 4: is a reflection of how well they've gone, particularly on 701 00:37:13,973 --> 00:37:19,213 Speaker 4: the seventh scene from I guess it's disappointing from an 702 00:37:19,213 --> 00:37:21,893 Speaker 4: all Blacks point of view not to see some form 703 00:37:21,933 --> 00:37:24,853 Speaker 4: of representation in the Player. 704 00:37:24,533 --> 00:37:25,373 Speaker 5: Of the Year nominees. 705 00:37:25,453 --> 00:37:28,173 Speaker 4: Yet I'd be disappointed if Wallace the TC doesn't win 706 00:37:28,333 --> 00:37:35,893 Speaker 4: Breakthrough Player and knows quality competition in the English Winger 707 00:37:36,053 --> 00:37:40,173 Speaker 4: and Sasha that the spring Box First five as well, 708 00:37:40,173 --> 00:37:43,853 Speaker 4: but he's been the clear standout for me. The one 709 00:37:44,493 --> 00:37:49,533 Speaker 4: I think frustration glaring emission in the context of World 710 00:37:49,613 --> 00:37:53,413 Speaker 4: Rugby Awards in the entirety as there's never been. Elliott's 711 00:37:53,453 --> 00:37:56,613 Speaker 4: are prop nominated for the Player of the Year and 712 00:37:56,733 --> 00:37:59,013 Speaker 4: I know there's a bit of consternation out there that 713 00:37:59,053 --> 00:38:01,653 Speaker 4: ox Niche is not part of that mix. There is 714 00:38:01,733 --> 00:38:05,853 Speaker 4: three spring box, which is I think fair. They've led 715 00:38:05,853 --> 00:38:08,213 Speaker 4: the world in recent years and they still hold them 716 00:38:08,213 --> 00:38:12,693 Speaker 4: mantle in the global context. But what does the PROP 717 00:38:12,773 --> 00:38:14,493 Speaker 4: have to do to get nominated for that award? 718 00:38:14,773 --> 00:38:19,093 Speaker 2: Well, very good question. Tyger Furlong had an excellent year 719 00:38:20,973 --> 00:38:23,093 Speaker 2: about five or six years ago. I think's had a 720 00:38:23,093 --> 00:38:25,173 Speaker 2: few excellent years. Tyger Philon might not be the player 721 00:38:25,173 --> 00:38:28,813 Speaker 2: that he once was, but he was at one point 722 00:38:28,813 --> 00:38:31,173 Speaker 2: I thought deserving of a nominee. 723 00:38:31,173 --> 00:38:32,213 Speaker 3: There have been other. 724 00:38:32,093 --> 00:38:37,373 Speaker 2: Players as well that would have claims to that, someone 725 00:38:37,493 --> 00:38:40,693 Speaker 2: you know, perhaps like a troll. Lomax even might be 726 00:38:40,733 --> 00:38:44,133 Speaker 2: in the conversation for some of his efforts over say 727 00:38:44,133 --> 00:38:47,733 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, not saying he'd win it necessarily, but 728 00:38:47,853 --> 00:38:51,053 Speaker 2: he'd been there thereabouts in terms of probably being the 729 00:38:51,093 --> 00:38:54,533 Speaker 2: world's best tight head for a time. So I look, 730 00:38:55,213 --> 00:38:57,493 Speaker 2: it seems like there are blinkers on from the World 731 00:38:57,533 --> 00:39:01,973 Speaker 2: Rugby Awards Committee around the Props, and look that maybe 732 00:39:02,013 --> 00:39:05,493 Speaker 2: they need a union or something like that to form 733 00:39:04,933 --> 00:39:09,213 Speaker 2: and get some recognition from the top brass, because seems 734 00:39:09,213 --> 00:39:11,973 Speaker 2: like the blinkers are on at the top topic number three. 735 00:39:12,093 --> 00:39:14,973 Speaker 2: Let's continue the World Rugby three and Brett Robinson the Australian. 736 00:39:16,173 --> 00:39:18,333 Speaker 2: As Mike Robinson told us a couple of weeks ago, 737 00:39:18,373 --> 00:39:20,973 Speaker 2: he was New Zealand Rugby's choice. He gets the top job, 738 00:39:21,373 --> 00:39:23,413 Speaker 2: first man from the Southern Hemisphere to get it since 739 00:39:23,413 --> 00:39:27,493 Speaker 2: it was a contestable position some twenty eight years ago. 740 00:39:28,373 --> 00:39:31,253 Speaker 2: I guess the question for you, Liam, is anything going 741 00:39:31,333 --> 00:39:34,613 Speaker 2: to change under Brett Robinson's stewardship is. 742 00:39:34,813 --> 00:39:38,973 Speaker 4: Chair Well, I think it'll be a progression Elliott, of 743 00:39:39,013 --> 00:39:42,613 Speaker 4: what we've seen in terms of the priorities around the 744 00:39:42,653 --> 00:39:46,253 Speaker 4: style of the game, hopefully which is pleasing from an 745 00:39:46,373 --> 00:39:51,733 Speaker 4: entertainment perspective, creating more pace and tempo, less TMO influence, 746 00:39:52,733 --> 00:39:58,533 Speaker 4: so prioritizing rugby as an entertainment product, hopefully ushering through 747 00:39:58,573 --> 00:40:03,533 Speaker 4: the twenty minute red card and those sorts of things. Interestingly, 748 00:40:03,573 --> 00:40:06,093 Speaker 4: I think he only just knucked through by two votes, 749 00:40:06,093 --> 00:40:09,133 Speaker 4: and I don't think he heads out the Frick's support, 750 00:40:09,173 --> 00:40:14,093 Speaker 4: which is quite telling in terms of the difference of 751 00:40:14,133 --> 00:40:19,213 Speaker 4: opinion in among the heavyweight sans Are nations. I think 752 00:40:19,333 --> 00:40:24,133 Speaker 4: if you look at it objectively, it's good for New 753 00:40:24,253 --> 00:40:28,653 Speaker 4: Zealand rugby and the established elite. But someone like Benazi, 754 00:40:28,773 --> 00:40:32,693 Speaker 4: his main competition did. Part of his pitch was very 755 00:40:32,773 --> 00:40:36,573 Speaker 4: much around bringing through Tier two, having more Tier one 756 00:40:36,613 --> 00:40:42,013 Speaker 4: against Tier two competition in the international arena. So I 757 00:40:42,093 --> 00:40:45,373 Speaker 4: don't I don't think it's it's great for Tier two rugby. 758 00:40:45,893 --> 00:40:50,693 Speaker 4: Britt Robinson will very much support the nation's championship and 759 00:40:50,773 --> 00:40:53,293 Speaker 4: those sorts of things. What sort of big ticket items 760 00:40:53,333 --> 00:40:56,213 Speaker 4: do you see him trying to push. 761 00:40:55,533 --> 00:40:57,653 Speaker 2: Well, probably not his remit, but I would like him 762 00:40:57,693 --> 00:41:00,573 Speaker 2: to sort out, you know, some of the officiating and 763 00:41:00,733 --> 00:41:05,253 Speaker 2: some of the rule book issues around the game. Again 764 00:41:05,573 --> 00:41:09,533 Speaker 2: not necessarily his remits necessarily, but I guess it forms 765 00:41:09,533 --> 00:41:13,893 Speaker 2: a pole of game picture picture that I think is 766 00:41:14,293 --> 00:41:17,053 Speaker 2: you know, an issue for world rugby at the moment. 767 00:41:17,853 --> 00:41:20,333 Speaker 2: You know, he obviously a twenty four team Men's World 768 00:41:20,373 --> 00:41:24,653 Speaker 2: Cup in twenty seven that I think the jury is 769 00:41:24,693 --> 00:41:28,133 Speaker 2: still out on around that format and whether it's a success. 770 00:41:28,173 --> 00:41:32,133 Speaker 2: So you know, I think there are a lot to do. 771 00:41:32,253 --> 00:41:34,613 Speaker 2: I think that the key things for him, as you say, 772 00:41:34,893 --> 00:41:39,253 Speaker 2: tear toundations not necessarily on board with it, wasn't part 773 00:41:39,293 --> 00:41:43,253 Speaker 2: of his pitch compared to Benazi, So he's got a 774 00:41:43,253 --> 00:41:44,693 Speaker 2: bit of work to do there to bring them on 775 00:41:44,773 --> 00:41:45,893 Speaker 2: board and bring them. 776 00:41:45,773 --> 00:41:46,533 Speaker 3: Part of the game. 777 00:41:47,293 --> 00:41:49,653 Speaker 2: There are a number of challenges inside the game at 778 00:41:49,653 --> 00:41:54,093 Speaker 2: the moment financially, you know, around franchise rugby and everything 779 00:41:54,213 --> 00:41:58,293 Speaker 2: like that that he'll have to look at too. So yeah, 780 00:41:58,293 --> 00:42:01,093 Speaker 2: it's a fairly big inbox for Brett Robinson as he 781 00:42:01,693 --> 00:42:04,733 Speaker 2: gets down to the chairmanship over the next few months 782 00:42:04,733 --> 00:42:05,813 Speaker 2: and interesting to. 783 00:42:05,773 --> 00:42:07,853 Speaker 3: See how that progresses topping. 784 00:42:07,693 --> 00:42:10,693 Speaker 2: Number four in the final four Lee Let's get into 785 00:42:10,733 --> 00:42:14,613 Speaker 2: some predictions for the final proper full weekends of the 786 00:42:14,653 --> 00:42:18,653 Speaker 2: Autumnation Series, and Ireland and Australia play the following weekend. 787 00:42:18,733 --> 00:42:22,253 Speaker 2: But let's look at this weekend full slate of fixtures. 788 00:42:23,013 --> 00:42:26,653 Speaker 2: Speaking of a Tier one bias, let's look through these 789 00:42:26,693 --> 00:42:31,813 Speaker 2: Tier one fixtures. France versus a Argentina rather Friday nights 790 00:42:31,973 --> 00:42:35,493 Speaker 2: local time. It starred to France, three from three from 791 00:42:35,493 --> 00:42:37,413 Speaker 2: France after they went over the All Blacks. 792 00:42:38,493 --> 00:42:40,613 Speaker 4: Oh it's the tough one to tip there, Elliott. The 793 00:42:40,653 --> 00:42:44,573 Speaker 4: Poems pushed Islands to the brink, didn't they. And Dublin 794 00:42:44,653 --> 00:42:48,013 Speaker 4: and are a team on the rise. But yeah, France 795 00:42:48,053 --> 00:42:51,333 Speaker 4: at home, they've got a great record in Paris pretty 796 00:42:51,333 --> 00:42:51,693 Speaker 4: hard to beat. 797 00:42:51,693 --> 00:42:53,973 Speaker 5: The must start to France, so stick with the French. 798 00:42:54,733 --> 00:42:57,093 Speaker 3: Yeah, Le's stick with the French on that front as well. 799 00:42:57,573 --> 00:43:04,093 Speaker 2: Ireland Fiji at the Aviva come Saturday afternoon local. 800 00:43:03,813 --> 00:43:09,253 Speaker 4: Time should be reasonably straightforward for Ireland to expect. 801 00:43:11,853 --> 00:43:12,693 Speaker 3: It'd expects so. 802 00:43:12,853 --> 00:43:16,933 Speaker 2: But they've you know, didn't think they were that great 803 00:43:16,933 --> 00:43:21,893 Speaker 2: against Argentina. In all honesty, you know what going to 804 00:43:21,933 --> 00:43:24,933 Speaker 2: shock the world and get a winner of Ireland and that's. 805 00:43:26,213 --> 00:43:30,213 Speaker 5: You've always been a big Duror fan, So no surprises there. 806 00:43:30,413 --> 00:43:32,653 Speaker 2: I've seen them beat the Crusaders far too often to 807 00:43:32,733 --> 00:43:38,053 Speaker 2: underestimate them. Liam Wells, South Africa. This would be pretty 808 00:43:38,053 --> 00:43:40,453 Speaker 2: special for Gats to get a big win over Russy, 809 00:43:40,493 --> 00:43:42,253 Speaker 2: wouldn't it. 810 00:43:42,253 --> 00:43:45,453 Speaker 4: It'll be special to the Gats to have his last 811 00:43:45,453 --> 00:43:49,333 Speaker 4: game in charge of Wales. Certainly a lot of heat 812 00:43:50,093 --> 00:43:55,373 Speaker 4: building in Cardiff and the valleys. They've got the pitchforks out. 813 00:43:56,253 --> 00:44:00,773 Speaker 4: They're storming, storming Cardiff. So look, it's going to be 814 00:44:00,813 --> 00:44:04,453 Speaker 4: another dark day, isn't that. Whales falling to eleven straight 815 00:44:04,453 --> 00:44:08,053 Speaker 4: defeats their worst run in history. And that was a 816 00:44:08,053 --> 00:44:11,013 Speaker 4: fish lacking by the Wallabies, wasn't it. So I was 817 00:44:11,133 --> 00:44:12,813 Speaker 4: in a very dark place at the moment and it's 818 00:44:12,853 --> 00:44:14,733 Speaker 4: not going to get any better against the World Champs. 819 00:44:14,813 --> 00:44:18,133 Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't see it. Ethlee Newer, we didn't give 820 00:44:18,133 --> 00:44:22,173 Speaker 2: a tip for that. Are you going with your Italian 821 00:44:22,253 --> 00:44:23,893 Speaker 2: roots and backing an upset? 822 00:44:24,573 --> 00:44:24,733 Speaker 1: Oh? 823 00:44:24,893 --> 00:44:28,693 Speaker 4: The head of the Hearts torn torn hair, very very 824 00:44:28,853 --> 00:44:29,413 Speaker 4: very torn. 825 00:44:29,453 --> 00:44:32,213 Speaker 5: But I think the All Blacks might just sneak that one. 826 00:44:32,893 --> 00:44:36,213 Speaker 2: I think so to Scotland. Australia is the Grand Slam 827 00:44:36,293 --> 00:44:37,413 Speaker 2: on for the Wallabies. 828 00:44:40,253 --> 00:44:43,733 Speaker 4: Look, I'm going to say Scotland in the Grand Slam. Unfortunately. 829 00:44:44,573 --> 00:44:46,813 Speaker 4: I think the Wallabies are a team on the rise, 830 00:44:46,893 --> 00:44:49,493 Speaker 4: but Scotland can be quite tough to beat in Edinburgh. 831 00:44:49,533 --> 00:44:57,173 Speaker 4: So unfortunately, the Wallabies dreams. I don't think it's going 832 00:44:57,213 --> 00:44:59,333 Speaker 4: to come crashing down. It'll be a tight type ficture, 833 00:44:59,373 --> 00:45:00,693 Speaker 4: but I think Scotland put. 834 00:45:00,573 --> 00:45:03,653 Speaker 2: Them three from three Babby. It's coming home to Australia 835 00:45:04,373 --> 00:45:11,093 Speaker 2: and England Japan. Eddie Jones returning to Alian Stadium, leaving 836 00:45:11,253 --> 00:45:15,573 Speaker 2: leading the Brave Blossoms to glory, presumably Liam. 837 00:45:16,573 --> 00:45:19,093 Speaker 5: No, No, he doesn't elliots it. 838 00:45:19,253 --> 00:45:22,373 Speaker 4: He's building you know, you know, he's tired trope that 839 00:45:22,413 --> 00:45:24,053 Speaker 4: he's building for the next World Cup. 840 00:45:24,453 --> 00:45:25,933 Speaker 5: It's all part of the master plan. 841 00:45:27,093 --> 00:45:30,773 Speaker 4: Japanel cop thirty point loss and you know it's all 842 00:45:30,773 --> 00:45:33,533 Speaker 4: about experience at this point in the in the in 843 00:45:33,613 --> 00:45:34,133 Speaker 4: the journey. 844 00:45:34,253 --> 00:45:35,893 Speaker 5: As John Mitchell would say. 845 00:45:35,933 --> 00:45:37,493 Speaker 3: What's Steve Borthwick building too? 846 00:45:38,933 --> 00:45:42,893 Speaker 4: Well, he's under as much pressure as Gats at the moment, 847 00:45:42,933 --> 00:45:46,333 Speaker 4: isn't he? Three losses, three consecutive losses at Twickenham. I 848 00:45:46,333 --> 00:45:48,493 Speaker 4: think it's the first time since two thousand and six 849 00:45:48,933 --> 00:45:51,933 Speaker 4: England they've had that sort of run. They should have 850 00:45:52,013 --> 00:45:54,733 Speaker 4: beaten the Wallabies, probably should have been the all blacks 851 00:45:54,733 --> 00:45:57,693 Speaker 4: of a couple of missed George Ford opportunities at the end, 852 00:45:57,893 --> 00:46:02,653 Speaker 4: but they really faded badly against South Africa. The box 853 00:46:02,733 --> 00:46:06,213 Speaker 4: just know how to win those tight tests. Damian Delnde 854 00:46:06,253 --> 00:46:10,413 Speaker 4: and Cheeslin Colby combineding brilliantly at funished there. So Yeah, 855 00:46:10,453 --> 00:46:12,213 Speaker 4: a lot of heat coming for Seve worthwook and I 856 00:46:12,213 --> 00:46:14,693 Speaker 4: think we're seeing the effects of those coaching changes with 857 00:46:15,293 --> 00:46:18,693 Speaker 4: Felix Jones leaving a big loss for them, so they 858 00:46:18,813 --> 00:46:20,293 Speaker 4: desperately need one, don't they. 859 00:46:20,533 --> 00:46:23,373 Speaker 2: They're doing indeed's right. That'll do us for Rugby Direct 860 00:46:23,373 --> 00:46:27,173 Speaker 2: for another week. Quit programming note that we won't be 861 00:46:27,213 --> 00:46:31,653 Speaker 2: back immediately after the game next weekend. I have a 862 00:46:31,653 --> 00:46:34,813 Speaker 2: few flights to catch back home, but we will endeavors 863 00:46:34,893 --> 00:46:37,053 Speaker 2: be back in your ears by the end of next 864 00:46:37,093 --> 00:46:39,173 Speaker 2: week to not only wrap up the game again Italy, 865 00:46:40,493 --> 00:46:43,373 Speaker 2: but the All Black season as a whole. 866 00:46:43,533 --> 00:46:44,693 Speaker 3: So look forward to. 867 00:46:44,773 --> 00:46:47,173 Speaker 2: Doing that then and maybe even doing a podcast face 868 00:46:47,213 --> 00:46:47,813 Speaker 2: to face again. 869 00:46:47,813 --> 00:46:49,213 Speaker 3: That'd be pretty special, wouldn't it, Liab. 870 00:46:50,093 --> 00:46:52,573 Speaker 4: It'd be great to gaze into your eyes over a 871 00:46:52,693 --> 00:46:55,653 Speaker 4: vena and some fresh past that you're bringing home and transit, 872 00:46:55,733 --> 00:46:56,853 Speaker 4: So look forward to that. 873 00:46:56,893 --> 00:46:57,333 Speaker 5: Elliott. 874 00:46:57,493 --> 00:46:59,173 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure we get a pass border control, 875 00:46:59,333 --> 00:47:01,213 Speaker 2: but I'll do my very best for Liam. 876 00:47:01,653 --> 00:47:03,653 Speaker 3: That has been Rugby Direct for another week. 877 00:47:03,653 --> 00:47:05,853 Speaker 2: I thanks to Lars and Bars English and of course 878 00:47:05,893 --> 00:47:09,653 Speaker 2: our thanks to Access Solutions elevating you and your business 879 00:47:09,733 --> 00:47:11,253 Speaker 2: to a higher level. 880 00:47:15,453 --> 00:47:18,093 Speaker 1: For more from News Talk st B, listen live on 881 00:47:18,173 --> 00:47:21,173 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 882 00:47:21,213 --> 00:47:23,773 Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.