Speaker 1: Kyoda. I'm Georgina Campbell in for Chelsea Daniels and this
Speaker 1: is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The
Speaker 1: New Zealand Herald. Last week, kingny to Haitia, the seventh
Speaker 1: Maldi Monarch, passed away aged sixty nine, a little over
Speaker 1: a week after marking eighteen years of his reign. By
Speaker 1: his shock death has seen a week of morning at
Speaker 1: Turanga yy Madi, the official residence for the head of
Speaker 1: the kingy Tongua Movement, political leaders have paid their respects.
Speaker 1: Prime Minister Christopher Luxen's voice broke with emotion when he
Speaker 1: spoke last week. He later explained to journalists.
Speaker 2: I was just remembering some times that I had actually
Speaker 2: in the photo with him, and whenever I came, we always,
Speaker 2: you know, his wonderful wife arranged white bait fritters for
Speaker 2: me and it was lovely and so so I was
Speaker 2: just remembering that, and I was also thinking of the family.
Speaker 2: You know, you know, I've lost a husband, I've lost
Speaker 2: a dad, not just the king, but you know they've
Speaker 2: lost a family member as well. So for me, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was emotional as I was getting through my remarks.
Speaker 1: Labor Party leader Chris Hipkins recalled a conversation with kingy
Speaker 1: to Hatia when he admitted being nervous about his too
Speaker 1: Dow Maldi and co Papa Maldi needing some work.
Speaker 3: And I recall the advice that he gave to me
Speaker 3: at the time, and I've carried it with me ever since.
Speaker 3: He said, the important thing is that you try, and
Speaker 3: you'll get more respect from trying than from getting it perfect.
Speaker 3: And so I've remembered that.
Speaker 1: Green Party co leader Chloe Smallbrick said he saw the
Speaker 1: nation we could be and invited us all to live
Speaker 1: up to it.
Speaker 4: Can Ktahitanga on the national agenda as our guiding star
Speaker 4: to build thee that all of us deserve. His legacy
Speaker 4: is one of unity, kindness and truly listening to understand.
Speaker 1: Tens of thousands of mourners from throughout the country have
Speaker 1: been at tudangaway Wi for the tongue hunger of the
Speaker 1: Maldi king and the Defense Force has been called in
Speaker 1: to feed them.
Speaker 5: New Zealand Defense Force was requested through Tipunikooki by tung
Speaker 5: Awaiwimi to provide catering support and so we have behind
Speaker 5: me now a catering detachment of twenty eight personnel, nine
Speaker 5: vehicles and various pieces of equipment. Essentially, we have three
Speaker 5: field kitchens behind me and they have been providing support
Speaker 5: to the fighter Coo and wed A Hair for the
Speaker 5: multitudes that have arrived for King you Do Haitia's tongue Hunger.
Speaker 1: The next Maldi monarch will officially be revealed this morning,
Speaker 1: just hours before King to Haitia is laid to rest.
Speaker 1: Proceedings will begin at Tu Dunga yy Madi at ten am.
Speaker 1: Kingy Too Haitia's funeral will then take place before his
Speaker 1: casket is taken to the banks of the Wykuttle River.
Speaker 1: A guard of honour will be there from members of
Speaker 1: Nati Mahanger and the New Zealand Defense Force for Waka
Speaker 1: will take the late King's casket along the river towards
Speaker 1: his final resting place on Topity Mountain. The late King's
Speaker 1: casket will then be carried to the summit. Today on
Speaker 1: the front page to discuss the legacy of kingy To Haitia,
Speaker 1: we're joined by professor of Political science at Charles Sturt University,
Speaker 1: Dominic O'Sullivan. Dominic, can you start by explaining the background
Speaker 1: of the King Tunga movement For those who aren't familiar.
Speaker 6: Well, it was established in the eighteen fifties in response
Speaker 6: to increase in colonization and in response to fears that
Speaker 6: perhaps from the government's perspective, to tidity your waiting, he
Speaker 6: wasn't going to be upheld, and promises contained in the
Speaker 6: agreement were promises that the government didn't see his binding.
Speaker 6: And it was thought that political unity among the different
Speaker 6: Dewy of New Zealand would be a good thing. It
Speaker 6: would be a way of being able to achieve more
Speaker 6: coordinated and cohesive resistance to colonial expansion. And not all
Speaker 6: the we had agreed with this, but many did, and
Speaker 6: King to Hatia's ancestor port Tototo Federal Federal was chosen
Speaker 6: as the first king.
Speaker 1: And how has the movement grown since then?
Speaker 6: Well, it's always been very important to the world Tony
Speaker 6: people and other Ewi, but it does at different times
Speaker 6: take on great national significance. It is the longest continuing
Speaker 6: political institution in New Zealand outside Parliament. Parliament's only a
Speaker 6: few years older than kingy Tonga and King e tong
Speaker 6: Ha set me older than any of the political parties
Speaker 6: that we have in Parliament at the moment. I think
Speaker 6: we saw in January when King two Ata called a
Speaker 6: meeting hue a Ewe to discuss how people might respond
Speaker 6: to the new government's treaty policies and genuine undermining of
Speaker 6: in general undermining of Maori culture and that who he
Speaker 6: attracted ten thousand people from all over the country. So
Speaker 6: it's a much bigger movement than just wyatt or tiny.
Speaker 6: It has that that broader significance, and I think that
Speaker 6: simplicity of two Ata's messages is really important. At the
Speaker 6: coronation celebrations in August, for example, he made the really
Speaker 6: simple but far reaching observation that manamute haak needs that
Speaker 6: there's room for everybody. And you know that is a
Speaker 6: very powerful political statement. I think there's room for everybody,
Speaker 6: and that has far reaching policy implications that can test
Speaker 6: the direction that the present government is taking. But also
Speaker 6: really I think creates a juxtaposition with the government's preference
Speaker 6: for a less cohesive, less united community and Quotahitanga unity
Speaker 6: is an enduring theme that the King Tunga brings into politics,
Speaker 6: and it does stand in quite significant contrast I think
Speaker 6: with the policy directions that the government is wanting to
Speaker 6: take at present.
Speaker 1: Yes, and as you say, his death comes at a
Speaker 1: really difficult time for relationships between martyrdom and the Crown,
Speaker 1: largely driven by the Coalition government's policies. Are you able
Speaker 1: to expand on the policies that are challenging and what
Speaker 1: impact do you think, you know, the loss of his
Speaker 1: leadership could have in regards to those policies.
Speaker 6: Well, I think the policies range from the petty to
Speaker 6: the potentially transformative. For example, one of the first policy
Speaker 6: priorities of the government was to diminish the use of
Speaker 6: the Maori language and the public service. We weren't allowed
Speaker 6: to say what a quarte we had to say the
Speaker 6: New Zealand Transport Agency because that was too much of
Speaker 6: a concession from the government's point of view, to a
Speaker 6: Maori presence in the broader New Zealand culture. And at
Speaker 6: a more substantive level, we have the Treaty Principles Bill
Speaker 6: which the act Party is preparing to introduce, and that
Speaker 6: really rewrites the Treaty of White Honey. The proposed principles
Speaker 6: bear no relation at all to the original agreement and
Speaker 6: the intention is to diminish the Marii capacity and authority
Speaker 6: basically to be themselves to diminish Runga Teatunga, as one
Speaker 6: of the original treaty promises that Mary would retain authority
Speaker 6: over their own affairs. So what the Treaty Principles Bill
Speaker 6: is intended to do is really create an assimilationist kind
Speaker 6: of policy regime where Mary participation in public life is
Speaker 6: conditional on not expressing themselves in a distinctively Mary way,
Speaker 6: not wanting to protect traditional environments and traditional authority, like
Speaker 6: I said, not really being allowed to protect the right
Speaker 6: to be marty. So it creates, I think a class
Speaker 6: of citizenship for Mary people that doesn't reflect the promises
Speaker 6: of equality that tutility made, and that's why people are
Speaker 6: so worried about it. There are other measures like the
Speaker 6: repeal of section seven AA of the orung Atomiki Act
Speaker 6: that's the act that establishes ortung Atomariki as the government's
Speaker 6: childcare and protection agency. And a succession of reports show
Speaker 6: that the state does a very very poor job looking
Speaker 6: after Mardi kids at risk, and this particular section of
Speaker 6: the legislation that the government has taken exception to is
Speaker 6: one that made sure that Maori people and Mary communities
Speaker 6: could take a leadership role in making decisions about how
Speaker 6: to look after kids who couldn't be looked after well
Speaker 6: by their their their parents, by involving grandparents and aunties
Speaker 6: and uncles and other members of a child's world in
Speaker 6: their in their care and protection, instead of taking them
Speaker 6: off to strangers to be looked after or not looked after,
Speaker 6: as is often the case by by the state. It's
Speaker 6: quite interesting that you know that the act Party, for example,
Speaker 6: comes to politics with a general philosophy of small government.
Speaker 6: It seems to set that philosophy aside and want big
Speaker 6: government over mary lives and Mahi resources and so on,
Speaker 6: big government in terms of diminishing the Mahdi language. And
Speaker 6: those are the sorts of things that people went to
Speaker 6: Tudanngawaiwei to air their concerns about back in January. As
Speaker 6: I said, ten thousand people attended. They're also the concerns
Speaker 6: that Tukta raised just as recently as last month that
Speaker 6: the annual celebrations to mark the anniversary for coronation. When
Speaker 6: he made that comment, there's room for everybody in that message.
Speaker 6: I think what he was trying to say is that
Speaker 6: Madi people looking after their own kids when they're in
Speaker 6: trouble doesn't diminish the space that there is for other
Speaker 6: people to do their thing and to exercise their rights
Speaker 6: of citizenship and so on. His message really is that
Speaker 6: Marti people wanting to be Mary is not a threat
Speaker 6: to anybody. There's room for that, just as there's room
Speaker 6: for everyone body else.
Speaker 1: Do you think that the government heard to Hata's message
Speaker 1: or that his passing might have any spay on the
Speaker 1: government's response in terms of its policies.
Speaker 6: Well before the big Quebec in January, the National Party
Speaker 6: had indicated it wasn't too keen on the act Party's
Speaker 6: Treaty Principles Bill and would support it to a first
Speaker 6: reading in Parliament because that's what it had agreed to
Speaker 6: in the coalition agreement, but it wasn't too keen on
Speaker 6: going any further. But after that, Christopher Luxon came out
Speaker 6: and said quite categorically that the National Party wouldn't support
Speaker 6: this legislation beyond a second reading. So that means although
Speaker 6: the bill will go to a select committee and people
Speaker 6: will be able to make their submissions, it won't be
Speaker 6: passed into law. And I think the size of the
Speaker 6: whoy that to Ato was able to convene was a
Speaker 6: significant influence on that decision, and I think the numbers
Speaker 6: of people that we're seeing in aadawaha this week is
Speaker 6: again that's a measure of people's support for the idea
Speaker 6: of for Tahitanga that Kingtunga has represented since its inception
Speaker 6: back in eighteen fifty eight. You know, that might have
Speaker 6: some influence on the National Party. I don't think it'll
Speaker 6: have any influence on ACT or New Zealand. First, they
Speaker 6: represent a sector of the population that is probably not
Speaker 6: widely represented at Notawaha this week, you know, appealing to
Speaker 6: that that base remains important to those parties. But the
Speaker 6: National Party needs to attract support beyond its base, and
Speaker 6: it needs to attract the support of people who agree
Speaker 6: with that statement. Is room for everybody, and the National Party,
Speaker 6: I think, to attract support beyond its space, and it
Speaker 6: needs to be mindful of those kinds of things and
Speaker 6: mindful of not wanting to cause unnecessary conflict. Whereas the
Speaker 6: ACT Party is very much ideologically focused. If to make
Speaker 6: its point it needs to generate conflict and as a
Speaker 6: result of that conflict, perhaps it doesn't do so well
Speaker 6: at the election next time. It's not so worried about that.
Speaker 6: If the National Party generates conflict which diminishes its electoral support,
Speaker 6: that's a real problem for it going into the next election.
Speaker 6: It wants to be in government, and that's more important
Speaker 6: than perhaps what the act Party sees as the points
Speaker 6: of principle that it's advocating.
Speaker 1: And as you say, that recent Hui is such a
Speaker 1: strong and recent example of kingy to Hatia's leadership. He
Speaker 1: was in this role for eighteen years, though, what are
Speaker 1: some of the highlights of that reign.
Speaker 6: I think that is a highlight because at no prior
Speaker 6: point in the last eighteen years has the Treaty of
Speaker 6: Waitangi been undermined in the way that it has been
Speaker 6: in the last few months. At no point have things
Speaker 6: like the Mardi language been undermined in this way. So often,
Speaker 6: leadership is most obvious and most pronounced when there's a
Speaker 6: concrete political issue around which leaders can galvanize people, and
Speaker 6: we just haven't had that in the last eighteen years.
Speaker 6: That's not to say that Marti crown relationships are always good.
Speaker 6: There are always points of contention, and we should expect
Speaker 6: that political relationship with different perspectives and different ideas conflict
Speaker 6: itself isn't necessarily a problem, but when it reaches the
Speaker 6: scale that the government has provoked in the last year
Speaker 6: or so, that does create space for leadership that just
Speaker 6: doesn't bear in ordinary times.
Speaker 7: As the country mourns the death of King E Tuaia,
Speaker 7: attention is slowly turning to who will be his successor.
Speaker 7: But the Marti movement isn't as straightforward as traditional monarchs.
Speaker 7: It's not hereditary, and the king or queen is instead
Speaker 7: appointed by the leaders of the EWE involved in the
Speaker 7: Mali king movement known as the king E Tongue. Despite
Speaker 7: not needing to be, the monarchy has been hereditary in effect,
Speaker 7: as every new Marty monarch has been the previous monarch's heir.
Speaker 7: The King's Council is meeting with EWE leaders this week
Speaker 7: and tod on a Yi and that I to discuss
Speaker 7: the criteria for two highs successor. The successor will likely
Speaker 7: be appointed on Thursday, the day of his funeral and
Speaker 7: before the burial. Now a successor and new monarch will
Speaker 7: be revealed this morning. Can you explain what the monarch
Speaker 7: role is in this system and how it works, what
Speaker 7: sort of duties or responsibilities does that monarch.
Speaker 6: Have well, I think we go back to eighteen fifty
Speaker 6: eight when Portoitou became the first king and the point
Speaker 6: was called Teitong unity. So to provide a figurehead for
Speaker 6: that unity among erewe to provide more coordinated and cohesive
Speaker 6: resistance to colonial expansion. And in the eighteen fifties and
Speaker 6: sixties it was avert military aggression, the confiscation of lands
Speaker 6: and so on. You know, one of the King of
Speaker 6: Tongue Is main priorities between then and the settlement in
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety five was to achieve that settlement. But it's
Speaker 6: a bigger purpose now. So it's a person that can
Speaker 6: command the respect of people across the country, across the
Speaker 6: Maori world and beyond. Is what makes this position an
Speaker 6: important one or conversely, what potentially diminishes it if the
Speaker 6: job is not well done.
Speaker 1: So is it unity then that you think will be
Speaker 1: front of mind for those make that choice today?
Speaker 6: I think so, and they'll be wanting to choose somebody
Speaker 6: that they have confidence to be able to make a
Speaker 6: contribution to that and to lead that objective.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us, Dominik. That's it for
Speaker 1: this episode of the Front Page. You can read more
Speaker 1: about today's stories stinks of news coverage at inzidherld dot
Speaker 1: co dot inzid. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills.
Speaker 1: Dan Goodwin is the sound engineer. I'm Georgina Campbell. Subscribe
Speaker 1: to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or where of it
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another
Speaker 1: look behind the headlines.