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Speaker 1: Kiaoda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,

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Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. In

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Speaker 1: the past, overseas investment in New Zealand has been seen

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Speaker 1: as a privilege rather than a riot. But could that

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Speaker 1: all be about to change with Prime Minister Christopher Luxen's

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Speaker 1: latest push for economic growth. He kicked off twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five by announcing the establishment of a foreign investment agency

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Speaker 1: similar to those seen in Ireland and Singapore, and the

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Speaker 1: government's holding a global investment summit next month, with sovereign

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Speaker 1: wealth and major asset management fund managers expected to attend.

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Speaker 1: So how does foreign investment work now? And can we

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Speaker 1: emulate the success of another country like Ireland where foreign

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Speaker 1: investment accounts for much of their GDP and private sector employment.

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Speaker 1: Today on the Front Page, Bell Gully partner and overseas

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Speaker 1: investment lawyer Glenn Shewan will take us through what foreign

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Speaker 1: investment looks like in New Zealand now and what could change.

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Speaker 1: First off, Glenn, how does foreign investment work in New

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Speaker 1: Zealand at the moment?

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Speaker 2: In terms of the overseas investment regime. It's been in

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Speaker 2: place now for over twenty years. The current regime sort

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Speaker 2: of in the modern form, came into being in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and five, but we actually had some precursor legislation

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Speaker 2: to that that governed investments into sensitive land and significant

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Speaker 2: business assets, which are investments in New Zealand exceeding certain

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Speaker 2: financial thresholds, and also governed investments into fishing quota. It's

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Speaker 2: been tinkered with and modernized a few times across the years,

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Speaker 2: but that's the basics of the system currently.

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Speaker 1: How much foreign investment is there at the moment into

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Speaker 1: New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: There's quite a lot. The Overseas Investment Office has useful

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Speaker 2: dashboards on its website which given indication of the volumes

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Speaker 2: of investment that it consents every year. So just going

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Speaker 2: by twenty twenty four, for example, they suggested that there's

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Speaker 2: over four and a half billion of investments that were

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Speaker 2: subject to their consent regime.

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Speaker 1: So it has been able to invest in New Zealand

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Speaker 1: been seen as a privilege up until now. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how will it benefit us opening up the floodgates so

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Speaker 1: to speak?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the way the legislation is drafted suggests

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Speaker 2: that it is a privilege to invest in New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: and I know that the politicians the current government are

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Speaker 2: considering switching that presumption to a presumption that overseas investment

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Speaker 2: benefits us. There's a number of initiatives the governments having

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Speaker 2: a look at in order to facilitate more investment. So

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Speaker 2: even last year, Minister Seymour gave some ministerial directives to

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Speaker 2: the OO to improve its decision making time frames and

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Speaker 2: that has really come through in most of the decisions

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Speaker 2: that the OO makes are now being made in about

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Speaker 2: half the time that they used to and that is

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Speaker 2: being seen as positive by investors. You obviously had Christopher

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Speaker 2: Luxen's announcements around invest in z a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 2: and then the proposed further reforms to the Obverse's Investment

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Speaker 2: Act that are coming up. So it's all aimed at

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Speaker 2: trying to encourage further investment. It's yet to be seen

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Speaker 2: whether it will involve opening of the floodgates in how

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Speaker 2: much additional investment will manifest, but the signals are certainly

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Speaker 2: positive from the government.

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Speaker 3: Modeled off the success of Ireland and Singapore. I can

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Speaker 3: announce today that we have agreed to establish invest New

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Speaker 3: Zealand as the government's one stop shop for attracting foreign

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Speaker 3: direct investment. Now, the point of invest New Zealand is clear,

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Speaker 3: will roll out the welcome mat, streamlining the investment process

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Speaker 3: and providing tailored support to foreign investors, and the objective

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Speaker 3: is to increase the capital investment across a range of

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Speaker 3: critical sectors like banking and fintech, like transport and energy,

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Speaker 3: manufacturing and innovation. So when the.

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister mentions changes to the Overseas Investment Act, what

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Speaker 1: could they be?

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Speaker 2: So, as I mentioned at that moment, the purpose of

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Speaker 2: the Overseas Investment Act includes a statement that it's a

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Speaker 2: privilege for overseas persons to invest in New Zealand. The

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Speaker 2: statements today suggest that that presumption will be reversed to

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Speaker 2: recognize that it's in New Zealand's interests and benefits to

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Speaker 2: Zealand to have overseas investment. So that's the primary change

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Speaker 2: that we're expecting and the result of that will be

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Speaker 2: easier pathways through the Overseas Investment Act process for investors.

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Speaker 2: They have said they're not intending to change or at

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Speaker 2: least change materially what types of investments are currently screened,

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Speaker 2: and so that is sensitively and significant business are sets

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Speaker 2: in fishing quota along with certain sensitive industries, but just

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Speaker 2: make it easier for those investment to get through the

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Speaker 2: IO process.

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Speaker 1: So what kind of things could we see there? Because

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Speaker 1: I know that in Ireland, for example, there are major

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Speaker 1: Chinese companies that have decided to set up their European

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Speaker 1: base in Dublin. Could we see something similar like that

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Speaker 1: happen here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there's a range of considerations that investors

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Speaker 2: take into account when they're looking at investing in another country.

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Speaker 2: The foreign direct investment regulation such as the Overseas Investment

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Speaker 2: Actors one part of that. There's also tech status, immigration

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Speaker 2: status in other regulatory settings, along with distance to or

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Speaker 2: closeness to other markets. So as a range of factors,

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Speaker 2: I think this is only one part of it. It's

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Speaker 2: said to be seen how much additional investment we'll see

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Speaker 2: as a result of these changes.

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Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned how much we get at the moment,

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Speaker 1: and I know that the establishment of invest in Z

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Speaker 1: is modeled a similar scheme in Ireland and in Singapore

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Speaker 1: as well. Just going over some Irish numbers was quite staggering.

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Speaker 1: I read somewhere the United States in twenty twenty three

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Speaker 1: alone invested four hundred and ninety one point two billion

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Speaker 1: dollars in Ireland. That's like eight hundred and seventy five

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Speaker 1: billion in New Zealand dollars. That's a far cry from

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing at the moment.

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Speaker 2: It's a significant amount in Ireland has been encouraging this

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Speaker 2: type of investment for a very long time now. It's

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Speaker 2: Investment Agency traces its respect to about nineteen forty nine,

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Speaker 2: and so it's been in the business of encouraging it

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Speaker 2: foreign investment for quite some time, and it does that

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Speaker 2: by throwing quite a lot of resource at that agency

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Speaker 2: as well. I think it has more than twenty officers

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Speaker 2: worldwide engaging with investors to encourage that type of investment.

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Speaker 1: What is Ireland doing at the moment that we're not doing.

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Speaker 2: I think part of it is that traditionally we have

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Speaker 2: been seen as having quite a restrictive overseas investment regime.

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Speaker 2: He thinks of five to ten years ago, we had

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Speaker 2: a reputation for being a difficult place to invest. While

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Speaker 2: generally speaking overseas investors could get through the Overseas Investment Act,

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Speaker 2: the timeframes were quite long and quite uncertain, and we

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Speaker 2: were out of step with other jurisdictions around the world.

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Speaker 2: So I think one thing Island has done is to

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Speaker 2: ensure that those barriers are kept to a minimum. I

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Speaker 2: think we have seen a change in perception of the

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Speaker 2: New Zealand regime in the last year or two and

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Speaker 2: then has started to trickle through to be understood by

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Speaker 2: overseas investors. So we're starting to improve that aspect of

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Speaker 2: the investment environment. As I say, that's just one piece

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Speaker 2: of the puzzle. The tax regime, immigration regime, other regulations

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Speaker 2: that are all relevant as well.

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Speaker 1: Should New Zealand be wary of who we actually allow

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Speaker 1: to invest here? I mean, I'm looking at Ireland again

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Speaker 1: as a shining example. Right the Irish economy has been

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Speaker 1: seeing more and more Chinese investment, but there are worries

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Speaker 1: there that that comes at I guess a reputational cost.

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Speaker 1: So they're kind of stuck in this awkward middle ground

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Speaker 1: where on one hand, Dublin is the European headquarters for

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Speaker 1: something like Shean, but on the other hand, Shean's had

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Speaker 1: to admit it found child labor and its supply chain recently.

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Speaker 1: So how do we balance investment opportunities while still having

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Speaker 1: I guess it's social conscience, I suppose.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So there have been some changes to our legislation recently

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Speaker 2: which have included a national security and public order aspect

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Speaker 2: to our regime, and that really is aimed to bring

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Speaker 2: us into line with other countries which screen investments for

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Speaker 2: impacts on our national security in public order. So that's

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Speaker 2: looking at investments in particular in our critical infrastructure in

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Speaker 2: any entities here who are critical supplies to the New

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Speaker 2: Zealand defense or intelligence agencies, or who deal with military

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Speaker 2: and dual use technology. So I think that is part

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Speaker 2: of the regime that's quite uncontroversial in targets those investors

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Speaker 2: that we might have concerns about from a national security perspective. Otherwise,

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Speaker 2: the Act is very much neutral in terms of who

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Speaker 2: invests here and it's not really a question for the

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Speaker 2: overseas Investment regulation.

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Speaker 1: We're also looking into the foreign buyer ban, that is,

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Speaker 1: at the moment, non resident foreigners being unable to purchase

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Speaker 1: existing homes in New Zealand bar Australians and Singaporeans. Does

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Speaker 1: the ban and the changes to the Overseas Investment Act

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Speaker 1: do they go hand in hand here? Do you think

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Speaker 1: there'll be a reversal of that ban.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not clear what changes will be made to

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Speaker 2: that ban. I think there's different views possibly within the

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Speaker 2: coalition parties. We have some optimism that there may be

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Speaker 2: some improvements in the status for skilled migrant investors, but

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Speaker 2: none of that's been laid out yet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's just a wait and see. How I know.

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Speaker 1: I read somewhere on one roof actually they were talking

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Speaker 1: to those higher end real estate agents and they there

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Speaker 1: are some whisperings at the moment. I suppose given that,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure those higher ups of overseas companies coming here

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Speaker 1: will want a nice, flashy waterfront home to live in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Possibly. We haven't seen anything official out of the

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Speaker 2: government on there.

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Speaker 4: And this has always been as your first if somebody

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Speaker 4: has come to this country like they do to other countries,

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Speaker 4: bringing you fifty million dollars to invest in a huge

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Speaker 4: industry and to ensure that we've got with this non

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Speaker 4: employment now potential exports with exports in this area now,

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Speaker 4: then we will look at it. Certainly, that's always been

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Speaker 4: our view because that means you've got us to use

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Speaker 4: investor committed to this un economy and not just above

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Speaker 4: hole in case they want to come in one day.

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Speaker 1: So Luxon's Global Investment Summit is scheduled for mid next month.

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Speaker 1: How much pressure is writing on this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not clear how much of a difference the

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Speaker 2: proposed reforms will make. As I say that it's been

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Speaker 2: a a series of announcements and changes that have improved

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Speaker 2: our reputation as a place for foreign investment. I think

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Speaker 2: they will be clear in the minds of those attending

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Speaker 2: that summer, but there may be some desire by the

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Speaker 2: government to give some more details of the proposed further

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Speaker 2: reforms ahead of that summer.

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Speaker 1: If you had the magic pen and you were going

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Speaker 1: to change the Act to make New Zealand exponentially more

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Speaker 1: attractive to overseas investors, what are some of the things

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Speaker 1: that you would change tomorrow?

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Speaker 2: There are quite a few technical aspects of the legislation

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Speaker 2: that sources of frustration for overseas investors, particularly around the

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Speaker 2: need to advertise farmland in some of the information that

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Speaker 2: needs to be provided, but I haven't sort of thought

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Speaker 2: through in any detail how it go about that.

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Speaker 1: So in summary, in terms of the changes to the

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Speaker 1: Act and how it compares to that of other countries,

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Speaker 1: I suppose if we were to dot point at, how

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Speaker 1: would we summarize what is actually going to happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think historically we have had that reputation as

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Speaker 2: being somewhat more restrictive for overseas investment than other countries.

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Speaker 2: Other countries since then have developed their own relatory regimes

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Speaker 2: for foreign direct investment, which has brought us into slightly

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Speaker 2: closer alignment, although possibly with our regime being somewhat more

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Speaker 2: fulsome than the overseas comparators. But there's been a series

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Speaker 2: of announcements and changes in recent times that have improved

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Speaker 2: that reputation, and I think that the changes that we

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Speaker 2: are going to see to the Act will just further

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Speaker 2: enhance that.

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Speaker 1: And if you were to take your peck, or if

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Speaker 1: you were to guess what kind of companies or investment

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Speaker 1: funds do you think I'd already lining up?

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Speaker 2: I think we already see a broad mix of investors.

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Speaker 2: We have seen a lot of private equity taking interest

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Speaker 2: in listed companies. We also see large trade players investing

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Speaker 2: in their counterparts in New Zealand, so it's a broad

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Speaker 2: broadbooks investors.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Glenn.

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Speaker 2: You're welcome. Good ship.

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Speaker 5: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You

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Speaker 5: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

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Speaker 5: at enzdherld dot co dot mz. The Front Page is

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Speaker 5: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also

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Speaker 5: our sound engineer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow

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Speaker 1: for another look behind the headlines.