WEBVTT - Can Auckland CBD bounce back? Retail vacancies, rail link and recovery 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:06.200 Kilda. 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:09.400 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:17.240 daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Auckland's CBD 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.080 should be at its brightest right now, but this Christmas 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:25.160 season has exposed just how far the city has slipped. 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.520 The former Smith and Coe's Building, once the center of 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:33.680 Auckland's festive traditions, with its iconic window displays and enchanted forest, 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:39.400 now sits dark Across the CBD, retail spending is down, site, 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.000 vacancy rates are up, and the district has been plagued 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:47.560 by stalled developments and empty lots. But could a new 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.559 life for Auckland be on the horizon. The long awaited 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:55.480 city rail link is expected to open next year, and Seascape, 0:00:55.640 --> 0:01:00.960 the country's tallest residential tower, is resuming struction after a 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.440 series of delays. Today on the Front Page ends at Herald, 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:08.240 Property editor An Gibson joins us to unpack what's really 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:10.760 happening in the heart of Auckland and whether we might 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:17.680 see a Christmas miracle for the city of Sales. First off, 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:22.600 and anyone visiting Auckland's CBD can attest that there seems 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.440 to be a lot of retail vacancies. You walk down 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:27.880 to Queen Street, for example, and there's you know, every 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.200 second shop's got a four lease sign in the window. 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:34.840 But that's just anecdotal, that's just me walking down Queen Street. 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:36.440 What does the data actually say? 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.240 In May, Baileys did a study of the CBD retail 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:43.360 area of Auckland and what they found was that thirteen 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:47.160 percent of it as vacant. Now that was actually down 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.320 on what it had been it had been last year 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.800 sixteen percent, but still, you know, in other parts of 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.360 New Zealand it's not as high as that, and the 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.200 suburban areas of Auckland. A note that, for example, the 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.240 vacancy red on the North Shore and retail is only 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:09.440 five percent, West Auckland two point eight, the Auckland Metropolitan 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:13.600 Area wider area four point three, in South Auckland only 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.600 three point one. So the CBD's been really hard all 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:21.760 the factors we know about, including COVID and CRL and 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.680 many other combinations of hell for them. 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:27.200 Yeah, but in terms of have you been into the 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.200 CBD lately, I mean we work kind of close to it, 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.160 but really, have you gone to Queen Street to pick 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:33.800 up something? 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:38.320 I have to go there yeah, but two months ago, 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:40.760 maybe I wouldn't linger put it that way. It doesn't 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.840 draw me, it doesn't attract me. I'm interested in it 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.559 because I write about the buildings, and buildings are really important, 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.280 but as a retail experience doesn't do it for me. 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.280 We spoke earlier this year and went through some of 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:57.440 the major sites that are sitting empty in Auckland. Give 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:59.800 me a bit of a refresh. What were they and 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.240 anything changed within the last few months. 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.160 Yes. In my August Property inside a column, I wrote 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:10.240 about the vacant lots, the buildings that are derelict or 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:15.720 look abandoned, or where plans were hatched but never actually fulfilled. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:20.000 Places like the food Alley on Albert Street, which is 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:25.200 an entire block where the old Yates building stood and 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.240 that is owned by Singaporeans. Now it's all fenced off 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.880 and it's just literally a vacant lot, and there are 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:36.400 plans for that but they haven't come to any fruition. 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:40.120 So that hasn't changed. Those two big sites that have 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.000 been vacant for nearly forty years now, so that's the 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.600 Royal International Hotel on Elliott Street and the ex Auckland 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:52.320 Star site in between Fort Street and Shortland Street. So 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:58.480 I had contact James Callo from New Zealand Mortgages and Securities. 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.880 They said to me, sat in line, we're getting closer 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:07.520 to Suva than Sydney. Now, I thought that was actually 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:13.760 not a bad summation. Unfortunately, I identified about twelve big moribund, vacant, empty, 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:21.240 undeveloped or plans not happening sites and so I haven't 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.760 seen any big changes. There's been nothing that's occurred since 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.040 I wrote that in August to those sites. 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.719 And that's a really good line as well, more like 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.159 Suva than Sydney, because Auckland does kind of fancy itself 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.640 as the Sydney of New Zealand, doesn't it. That's where 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:37.640 you go for the big jobs, That's where you go 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:39.159 for the big money, you know. 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.520 But when I say that, James Callow meant more like 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.279 a Suva than Sydney, and meaning that in a bad way. 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:51.480 He was really talking about the way, the direction or 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.560 the way that the CBD is looking at the moment. 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.160 Yeah, and just because it's not suber is not ever 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:00.800 going to be a thriving metropolis. New York's and your 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.159 London's and your Sydney's. Obviously it's still a beautiful place, 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.320 but it's just not what business people are aspiring to. 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.679 I suppose it was quite derogatory, quite a derogatory comment. 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:15.760 Yeah, just as a consumer, Black Friday felt a bit 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.200 different this year. So on one hand, I was bombarded 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.440 with the ads and the offers and up to sixty 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.320 percent off et cetera, et cetera. But that's another podcast entirely, 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.919 isn't it about how good Black Friday actually is nowadays? 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.880 But I also thought, yeah, a lot of people complaining 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:37.520 about they're not being good enough deals. They're saying that 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.719 they're not partaking this year at all because of the 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.320 cost of living crisis coming up to Christmas as well. 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.719 It's not really like it used to be. Has there 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.799 been a reduction in retail spending overall? 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.719 Yes, well, you're right. Black Friday didn't turn out to 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.600 be the great hope for retailers that it was anticipated 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:01.240 to be. And in fact, the non food good spending 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.960 was down this year six point two percent, so we're 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.679 not seeing that big rebound. And this is this slightly 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.279 moribun state of the economy at the moment, where the 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.800 construction sector is really still in the downturn. We've got 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.159 very high unemployment and I have a number of friends 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:22.080 who are looking for jobs keeping an eye on what's 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:26.279 going on. I've tried to help some. It's really tough. 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.839 I know one person who's applied for I think nearly 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:34.000 eighty jobs now. And if you're on a winds benefit, 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:39.719 you have to proactively seek work. You can't just do nothing, 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.279 and so that's really tough. 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:43.400 You know. 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.240 Despite the fact that interest rates have come down, it 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.839 hasn't fired up our economy. My colleaguelium Dan writes about 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.040 green shirts, but as he wrote the other day, you 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.360 can't eat green shoots, you know. So cost of living, 0:06:55.600 --> 0:07:00.280 high unemployment, low economic growth and low confidence is really 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.320 serious issues for the New Zealand economy. And I think 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:07.120 we're all hoping that twenty twenty six will be a better. 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.400 Year because we had the thrive in twenty twenty five 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:12.960 or survive until twenty twenty five. 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:13.440 I wonder what. 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:16.800 Rhymes with twenty twenty six? 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.560 What can we kind oftically? And also was saying to 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:21.760 Liam the other day, what is this big downturn in 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:25.280 New Zealand? Called like we had the GFC and you know, 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.160 we know about the I don't know the different downturns. 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.040 I've usually got names the sharmarket pressure of the eighties. 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:33.559 But I said to what was this one called? And 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.360 he said, it doesn't officially have a name. And then 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.000 of course I consulted AI, as all good journalists do 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:43.520 these days, and it said that New Zealand's economy was 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.679 actually different to the economies of a lot of other countries, 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.520 so there was no global name for this big downturn 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.360 that we were in at the moment, because guess what, 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:53.120 not global. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.720 So you've come down today for the sale? How often 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:07.720 did you come to Smith and Cohen? Probably definitely for Christmas, 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:13.480 but alternative other times as well, you know, just whenever 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.400 we were in the location. But it's just so sad 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:20.160 that it's going. It's just the icon, isn't it. Being 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.880 English and used to big old shops like this. New 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.880 Zealand only has this one, so it's you know, it's 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:28.280 really sad that it's going. 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:32.800 Going back to Queen Street. I'm going to take us 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:36.079 back there. It's really going to miss Smith and Coey's 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:37.160 this Christmas, isn't it. 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.280 It's very sad And even that center that was on 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.240 the side of the old witch call spots. I miss him, yeah, 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.760 on the corner of Queen of Victoria Street. Well, he 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.520 was retired. His last year was evidently twenty nineteen. Now 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.960 the amazing family, the Mensins, who are so influential in 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.520 terms of development in Auckland, they funded Center I think 0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:01.679 in about twenty fourteen for three years. But now he's 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.880 somewhere down south I think because Heart of the city 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.920 said that he was costing something like two hundred thousand 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.079 dollars a year to put up. But back to Smith 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.440 and Coey's right, so the board decided enough of Center. 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.199 The board decided in duringe to sell that property. Well, 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.280 so they've got two properties, They've got the Queen Street 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.440 one and one on Bolbone new Market. So they took 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:26.880 the decision, talked to Peter Alexandra about this to actually 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.000 sell it and they place the property with the number 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.040 of agencies. Now we yet to hear of anything as 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:36.360 I understand it. The new Market property has sold. But 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.400 there's a demolition specialist firm called rip it Out New 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:44.680 Zealand and in mid July they were on social media 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:49.040 picture removing fixtures and fittings in the lovely old ground 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.520 floor where they sold so many cosmetics, and the wonderful 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.080 men's clothing area, and you know all those great memories 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.240 that I think we have of Smith and Coey's, which, 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.400 as you say, such a begin institution in all right. 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:03.520 Yeah, So we don't know what the plans are for 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.000 the Queen Street Smith and Colley's side, because it is 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:07.640 an iconic building. 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:13.600 Theres people talk about things like maybe a language school 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.599 or offices or actually a few people have mentioned the 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:21.440 idea of converting it into apartments because I think it 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:25.920 is a heritage building, so you know, not far away, 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:30.080 John Love of Loving Company turned the original civic administration 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:35.560 building into apartments. That's an eighteen level structure. The very 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:40.679 expensive job, but very beautiful result. And John loved something 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.840 really interesting. He actually sought to patronize New Zealand businesses. 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.520 So the windows come from thermosash and the appliances I 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.200 think a Fisher and pikel and he went out to 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.960 be a patriot and do something quite different in terms 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:59.960 of that building. That's the largest office to residential conversion 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:00.960 in New Zealand. 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.160 Do we just need to move on from this idea 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.680 of needing to shop in the city or go into 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.720 the CBD, or you know, just that mentality and just 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:16.560 accept that city life has changed, it's not the hub 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.800 that it used to be, and just deal with it. 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.960 Well, you know, I find it really interesting the Ikea 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:27.000 opening and the big focus on that a regional hub, 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:31.040 you know, Sylvia Park, and also the huge popularity of 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:36.040 Costco Now. I think Nicola Willison announced when the cost 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.959 Covers announced for Drury that there are two hundred and 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.640 fifty thousand members of Costco in New Zealand. Now those 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:47.640 people are all paying sixty dollars annual subscription. So I 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.760 think I think you're right to some extent, the CBD 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:53.360 is not what it was, although we have to remember 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.760 big precincts of it like Commercial Bay and Scott Pritchard 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.720 and precinct properties who have done the most outstanding job 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.480 of converting that area of the waterfront, but also like 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.160 Peter Cooper and Cooper and Company and Matthew Cochran, the 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:14.560 CEO with Britomart, which again is outstanding. So we have 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.840 that real mixture. You know, we're talking about Smith and Coe's, 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.000 but if you go down near the waterfront and look 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.520 at those two precincts. They're very different. You could be 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.040 in a totally different city right when you're I don't know, 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:31.680 walking past the beautiful Tiffany's store and Britomart and Tikomitt 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:36.160 Dounga Square and you know, just outside Commercial Bay, they 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:40.000 are very beautiful. And also the CPO has been refurbished 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.679 and that's owned by Cooper and co and facing Te 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.920 committed Tonguel Square, and that's a very different experience, right, 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.120 and it's somehow very indigenous with the way that they've integrated, 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.840 you know, the use of native plants and landscaping, the 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:59.360 hard landscaping, the colors, the design, the thoughtfulness and guess what, 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.400 there's a giant Christmas tree down there. At the moment 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:04.559 as I understand it, I've not seen it myself. 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.880 Oh that was going to be my next question. I know, 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.960 maybe we should go down there. So in terms of that, 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.679 that makes that what you say to me there and 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.400 what I think of Brittemart and in Commercial Bay and 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.800 the thoughtfulness behind that, that's what makes New Zealand special, 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.760 right is that thoughtfulness and that patriotism to our roots 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.480 and the design and architecture of it all. Do we 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:30.760 need that for Queen Street. 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.040 Well, it's just extraordinary when you think. You know, precinct 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.839 properties are billion dollars on Commercial Bay and by the way, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.440 they haven't finished. They've got two very big towers up 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.640 to I think fifty six levels or more that will 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:46.880 be the tallest in New Zealand of the book when 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:51.600 they're book. And also Britamark Peter Cooper's vision of taking 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:57.679 eighteen run down, gyrelict old industrial warehouses populated by pigeons 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:02.600 and rats and a terrible straight and turning that into 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:07.880 the wonderful britom Ark precinct. What a vision that man has. Yes, 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:09.440 so how can you spread that? 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:09.960 See? 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.240 I think what makes those two precincts really special is 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.400 the waterfront location of them as well. And also you 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.720 have to pay tribute to Auckland Transport and the vision 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.120 to convert that part of Key Street. So Key Street 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.000 four Lane Highway was a thoroughfare very like I don't know, 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:29.720 if you've been to San Francisco and got off the 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.840 ferry there and tried to get into the Cebeach I have, yeah, right, 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.200 so you walk across the motorway, right, Yeah, Well that's 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.320 what Key Street used to be a little bit light, right, 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:42.080 And then I think that the vision that occurred there 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.840 is just outstanding and it really changes the city, and 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:50.240 it gives a completely different face to the city, for say, 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.800 the visitors on cruise ships. You know, it really is 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.760 outstanding what they've done. Wouldn't it be great if that 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.920 could be moved further up the street, you say, But 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:02.680 then you're getting away from the water work. 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:08.240 I know it's that hard cell that Queen Street is. 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:16.720 I need more jeanes? 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.080 Fine, let's go. 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.000 Slack awes. 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.720 So I never lend. 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.880 I've heard these ads for the City Rail Link, right, 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.320 everyone's obviously getting excited for it opening next year, and 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.080 I hear these ads being like, you could be at 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.280 your home looking at a pair of jeans on your 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.680 phone and be at Karangahabe Road in twenty minutes on 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:51.240 the CRL, and I kind of my first reaction was, well, 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.560 I can buy those jeans online, number one. Number two, 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:56.400 Why would I go into the city at all when 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.800 I can go and get those genes at Newmarket or 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:03.080 even Sylvia Park or something like that. But obviously there 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.680 is this push to bring people back and that suggestion 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.600 of yes you can, it's not long. You don't have 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.520 to look around for parking, you don't have to pay 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.120 for parking in the CBD because you've got the CRL 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.480 and the convenience of it. Do you think that that's 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.520 going to breathe new life into the city. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.520 Well, I think we've got three things that are pretty amazing. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.560 We've got the CRL, We've got the New Zealand International 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.760 Convention Center, and there is also the very big apartment 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.200 to our seascape. Now take one of those alone. For example, 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.920 with the CRL, the projection is nineteen thousand passengers in 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:40.560 the peak hour per hour. 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:41.240 Wow. 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.480 That is slightly down from the original twenty seven thousand 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.280 projection according to my colleague Bernard Oorsman, but still that 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.760 number of people. So cities really thrived when there are 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.600 lots of people. That's what they need to bring them alive. 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.600 So I think your point's a really good one. Seascape 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.000 yet to be finished with. I don't know whether Icon 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.080 Apparent it doesn't seem to have signed the contract with 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.080 Shaundi Customs to come in there, but there are evidently 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.600 people working on the site at the moment and the 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.600 ends that ice see the media open day in late 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:18.000 November and seeing inside there for the first time, and 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:20.920 you know the number of people who could come in there. 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:24.240 You know, they have got something like ninety five events 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:28.159 booked for next year alone. Wow, and you know something 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:32.000 like fifteen thousand, ten des are expected to go to 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:36.000 just fifteen of those. Now, the real beauty of what 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.359 we're talking about is crl to whyhot A two station. 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:44.600 The central one is right beside scar City Albert Street 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:49.879 with the scar City Grand actually faces the WAYHOA two station, 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:54.160 and so then you've got a series of three blocks 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:59.440 that Scarcity have connected up with walkways across the streets, 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.400 so that's sort of flow and that connection and those numbers, 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:08.159 we could really begin to see something change in the 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.200 heart of Auckland there. And I do have to pay 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.080 tribute to VIVBC and Heart of the City and all 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.399 that they are doing. It's a tough role. But you know, 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.439 I really hope that CR and the inns of at 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:24.040 ICC and these sort of changes in Auckland that it 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.720 will revive the center of town. I mean, I think 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.399 that is a reasonable expectation. 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:31.000 I would really hope. 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:35.280 So Actually, because I think about that convention center and 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.520 the people and the amount of people that it will 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:41.800 bring into Auckland, CBD. At the moment, though, would you 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:47.639 be embarrassed for a group of Danish diplomats wanting to 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.080 grab something for lunch or wanting to go and check 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.040 out the local shopping scene and walking down to Queen 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.639 Street from the International Convention Center. 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:57.840 I don't think we've got any reason to be embarrassed. 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:01.479 I think some astonishing restaurants. And my favorite is actually 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.160 El Brown's the Depot. I just have to say that 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.920 because look, you can sit outside. I love the food. 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.760 I've been going there for years. Right beneath you know, 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.040 Skar City, right a block from the Convention Center, the 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.960 sky City Hotel, Horizon Hotel with a new onlex bar 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:21.760 is outstanding. Ahe by Ben Bailey down in Commercial Bay. 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.520 I mean, these are phenomenal places that really do the 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.840 best to showcase I think New Zealand food. You know, 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:30.959 you've got the Depot, which is pretty casual and I 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.840 love that Kiwi style of it. And then Ben Bailey 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:38.160 with fire and all the beauty of his open kitchen 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:42.159 and the Cawi dishes and the beautiful tables. I mean, 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.000 those are just two that I'm naming, but I'm not 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.919 all embarrassed. I talk a couple of Irish friends up 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:53.399 through the CBD midwinter on the wettest Sunday imaginable, and 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:56.239 they loved walking up Albert Street because guess what on 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.800 Albert Street I didn't know this. There are a whole 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:03.040 lot of boards explaining the history. So we walk quite 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:07.240 quickly past the yates and ex food ali vacant lot. 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.199 They didn't work on that because they're busy reading the 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.880 boards up Albert Street. And just in the last little 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.119 while we've also had I think at announced that the 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:19.800 buses are back on Albert Street, right, so that's beginning 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.120 to come alive after all that hell of the CRL. 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.159 But I don't think that we should think that the 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:30.119 CROL construction was. It's it's just not personal to us. 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.520 When they put the big Asian kilometer tram through the 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.639 center of Sydney. I mean, my friends who retailers there 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:41.360 had major conniptions. And I saw the tram, the light 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:45.080 rail going being built up and down the GC and 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.479 Queensland right, same thing. You know, businesses complaining. But at 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.080 the end, guess what you can go from one end 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.040 of the Gold Coast right up to meet the heavy 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.160 rail and get into Brisbane. I mean the benefits of path. 0:20:57.280 --> 0:21:00.320 I know the pain was extraordinary. I do appreciate that, 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.400 but I also think that in terms of the provision 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:07.399 of infrastructure, we need to be looking and thinking long term. 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:09.600 I got to tell you the story when the Harbor 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:11.879 Bridge was being built, and when it was finished in 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.280 nineteen fifty nine, people said, why do we need a 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:16.960 harbor bridge? There's any strawberry fields on the north shore 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:19.960 back of vision. 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:22.720 So you've taken the diplomats out to dinner at our Browns, 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:25.520 obviously had a beautiful cocktail on us and seeing the 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.880 sunset on one of our beautiful rooftop bars. But then 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.600 what if you take them down Queen Street or up 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:35.040 Queen Street rather and past the same James Theater, past 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:39.919 the Metro Center, past the Dead Smith and Coe's. What 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:40.359 about that? 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:41.280 Not so good? 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:42.160 Not so good? 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.760 Not going on long way from the water gets worse, right, 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:47.960 But what I'd have to say to you is that 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.399 end of town is getting a number of large student 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:57.000 accommodation blocks one three hundred million, and so there's a 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:00.560 lot of students around there in the daytime, and those 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:05.439 blocks are actually quite perfectly situated in that location, just 0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:11.280 oft Lawn Street actually between aut and the University of Auckland, 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:15.040 So there are positives. There is development going around there, 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:17.919 just not on that just not so much on that 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:22.560 big strip, although the Childs are also converting an office 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:26.440 building into a hotel. Again, there is development occurring around there, 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:30.320 not as dramatic obviously as the changes on the waterfront. 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:34.840 So we shouldn't say is Auckland dying or dead? We 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:36.680 should say it isn't dead yet. 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:40.159 Auckland has been rebuilt and is being rebuilt, which is 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:43.520 terribly exciting. The worst thing that can happen is just 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:46.160 for people to leave and for me to be right 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:48.320 about all the dead sites. I don't want to be right. 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:50.160 I want to see the changes. I want to see 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.080 the excitement and the joy of it all, and the 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:56.920 coming alive and the people, just as you say, the 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:02.160 Danes arriving here and searching for the beautiful restaurants. 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:04.280 Thanks for joining us, Anne. 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:06.359 Chelsea. 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:12.240 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:16.040 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:19.960 at enzid Herald dot co dot enz The Front Page 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.879 is produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:27.560 also our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front 0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:31.119