1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Kilda. 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Auckland's CBD 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 2: should be at its brightest right now, but this Christmas 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 2: season has exposed just how far the city has slipped. 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: The former Smith and Coe's Building, once the center of 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: Auckland's festive traditions, with its iconic window displays and enchanted forest, 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: now sits dark Across the CBD, retail spending is down, site, 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: vacancy rates are up, and the district has been plagued 10 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 2: by stalled developments and empty lots. But could a new 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 2: life for Auckland be on the horizon. The long awaited 12 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: city rail link is expected to open next year, and Seascape, 13 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: the country's tallest residential tower, is resuming struction after a 14 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 2: series of delays. Today on the Front Page ends at Herald, 15 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: Property editor An Gibson joins us to unpack what's really 16 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: happening in the heart of Auckland and whether we might 17 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 2: see a Christmas miracle for the city of Sales. First off, 18 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: and anyone visiting Auckland's CBD can attest that there seems 19 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: to be a lot of retail vacancies. You walk down 20 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 2: to Queen Street, for example, and there's you know, every 21 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: second shop's got a four lease sign in the window. 22 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: But that's just anecdotal, that's just me walking down Queen Street. 23 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 2: What does the data actually say? 24 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: In May, Baileys did a study of the CBD retail 25 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: area of Auckland and what they found was that thirteen 26 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: percent of it as vacant. Now that was actually down 27 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: on what it had been it had been last year 28 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: sixteen percent, but still, you know, in other parts of 29 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: New Zealand it's not as high as that, and the 30 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: suburban areas of Auckland. A note that, for example, the 31 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: vacancy red on the North Shore and retail is only 32 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: five percent, West Auckland two point eight, the Auckland Metropolitan 33 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: Area wider area four point three, in South Auckland only 34 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: three point one. So the CBD's been really hard all 35 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: the factors we know about, including COVID and CRL and 36 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: many other combinations of hell for them. 37 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, but in terms of have you been into the 38 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: CBD lately, I mean we work kind of close to it, 39 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: but really, have you gone to Queen Street to pick 40 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 2: up something? 41 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: I have to go there yeah, but two months ago, 42 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: maybe I wouldn't linger put it that way. It doesn't 43 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: draw me, it doesn't attract me. I'm interested in it 44 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,559 Speaker 1: because I write about the buildings, and buildings are really important, 45 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: but as a retail experience doesn't do it for me. 46 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: We spoke earlier this year and went through some of 47 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: the major sites that are sitting empty in Auckland. Give 48 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 2: me a bit of a refresh. What were they and 49 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: anything changed within the last few months. 50 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: Yes. In my August Property inside a column, I wrote 51 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: about the vacant lots, the buildings that are derelict or 52 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: look abandoned, or where plans were hatched but never actually fulfilled. 53 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: Places like the food Alley on Albert Street, which is 54 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: an entire block where the old Yates building stood and 55 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: that is owned by Singaporeans. Now it's all fenced off 56 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: and it's just literally a vacant lot, and there are 57 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: plans for that but they haven't come to any fruition. 58 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: So that hasn't changed. Those two big sites that have 59 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: been vacant for nearly forty years now, so that's the 60 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: Royal International Hotel on Elliott Street and the ex Auckland 61 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: Star site in between Fort Street and Shortland Street. So 62 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: I had contact James Callo from New Zealand Mortgages and Securities. 63 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: They said to me, sat in line, we're getting closer 64 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: to Suva than Sydney. Now, I thought that was actually 65 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: not a bad summation. Unfortunately, I identified about twelve big moribund, vacant, empty, 66 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: undeveloped or plans not happening sites and so I haven't 67 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: seen any big changes. There's been nothing that's occurred since 68 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: I wrote that in August to those sites. 69 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 2: And that's a really good line as well, more like 70 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 2: Suva than Sydney, because Auckland does kind of fancy itself 71 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: as the Sydney of New Zealand, doesn't it. That's where 72 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 2: you go for the big jobs, That's where you go 73 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 2: for the big money, you know. 74 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: But when I say that, James Callow meant more like 75 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: a Suva than Sydney, and meaning that in a bad way. 76 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: He was really talking about the way, the direction or 77 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: the way that the CBD is looking at the moment. 78 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just because it's not suber is not ever 79 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: going to be a thriving metropolis. New York's and your 80 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 2: London's and your Sydney's. Obviously it's still a beautiful place, 81 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: but it's just not what business people are aspiring to. 82 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,679 Speaker 1: I suppose it was quite derogatory, quite a derogatory comment. 83 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, just as a consumer, Black Friday felt a bit 84 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: different this year. So on one hand, I was bombarded 85 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 2: with the ads and the offers and up to sixty 86 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: percent off et cetera, et cetera. But that's another podcast entirely, 87 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 2: isn't it about how good Black Friday actually is nowadays? 88 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 2: But I also thought, yeah, a lot of people complaining 89 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: about they're not being good enough deals. They're saying that 90 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 2: they're not partaking this year at all because of the 91 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: cost of living crisis coming up to Christmas as well. 92 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 2: It's not really like it used to be. Has there 93 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,799 Speaker 2: been a reduction in retail spending overall? 94 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: Yes, well, you're right. Black Friday didn't turn out to 95 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: be the great hope for retailers that it was anticipated 96 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: to be. And in fact, the non food good spending 97 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: was down this year six point two percent, so we're 98 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,679 Speaker 1: not seeing that big rebound. And this is this slightly 99 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: moribun state of the economy at the moment, where the 100 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: construction sector is really still in the downturn. We've got 101 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: very high unemployment and I have a number of friends 102 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: who are looking for jobs keeping an eye on what's 103 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: going on. I've tried to help some. It's really tough. 104 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: I know one person who's applied for I think nearly 105 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: eighty jobs now. And if you're on a winds benefit, 106 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: you have to proactively seek work. You can't just do nothing, 107 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: and so that's really tough. 108 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: You know. 109 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: Despite the fact that interest rates have come down, it 110 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: hasn't fired up our economy. My colleaguelium Dan writes about 111 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: green shirts, but as he wrote the other day, you 112 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: can't eat green shoots, you know. So cost of living, 113 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: high unemployment, low economic growth and low confidence is really 114 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: serious issues for the New Zealand economy. And I think 115 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: we're all hoping that twenty twenty six will be a better. 116 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: Year because we had the thrive in twenty twenty five 117 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 2: or survive until twenty twenty five. 118 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 3: I wonder what. 119 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: Rhymes with twenty twenty six? 120 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: What can we kind oftically? And also was saying to 121 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: Liam the other day, what is this big downturn in 122 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: New Zealand? Called like we had the GFC and you know, 123 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: we know about the I don't know the different downturns. 124 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: I've usually got names the sharmarket pressure of the eighties. 125 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,559 Speaker 1: But I said to what was this one called? And 126 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: he said, it doesn't officially have a name. And then 127 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: of course I consulted AI, as all good journalists do 128 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: these days, and it said that New Zealand's economy was 129 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,679 Speaker 1: actually different to the economies of a lot of other countries, 130 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: so there was no global name for this big downturn 131 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: that we were in at the moment, because guess what, 132 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: not global. 133 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 3: So you've come down today for the sale? How often 134 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 3: did you come to Smith and Cohen? Probably definitely for Christmas, 135 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: but alternative other times as well, you know, just whenever 136 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 3: we were in the location. But it's just so sad 137 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 3: that it's going. It's just the icon, isn't it. Being 138 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 3: English and used to big old shops like this. New 139 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 3: Zealand only has this one, so it's you know, it's 140 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: really sad that it's going. 141 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: Going back to Queen Street. I'm going to take us 142 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 2: back there. It's really going to miss Smith and Coey's 143 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: this Christmas, isn't it. 144 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: It's very sad And even that center that was on 145 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: the side of the old witch call spots. I miss him, yeah, 146 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: on the corner of Queen of Victoria Street. Well, he 147 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: was retired. His last year was evidently twenty nineteen. Now 148 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: the amazing family, the Mensins, who are so influential in 149 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: terms of development in Auckland, they funded Center I think 150 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: in about twenty fourteen for three years. But now he's 151 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: somewhere down south I think because Heart of the city 152 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: said that he was costing something like two hundred thousand 153 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: dollars a year to put up. But back to Smith 154 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: and Coey's right, so the board decided enough of Center. 155 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 1: The board decided in duringe to sell that property. Well, 156 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: so they've got two properties, They've got the Queen Street 157 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: one and one on Bolbone new Market. So they took 158 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: the decision, talked to Peter Alexandra about this to actually 159 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: sell it and they place the property with the number 160 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: of agencies. Now we yet to hear of anything as 161 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: I understand it. The new Market property has sold. But 162 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: there's a demolition specialist firm called rip it Out New 163 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: Zealand and in mid July they were on social media 164 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: picture removing fixtures and fittings in the lovely old ground 165 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: floor where they sold so many cosmetics, and the wonderful 166 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: men's clothing area, and you know all those great memories 167 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: that I think we have of Smith and Coey's, which, 168 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: as you say, such a begin institution in all right. 169 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we don't know what the plans are for 170 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: the Queen Street Smith and Colley's side, because it is 171 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 2: an iconic building. 172 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: Theres people talk about things like maybe a language school 173 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,599 Speaker 1: or offices or actually a few people have mentioned the 174 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: idea of converting it into apartments because I think it 175 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: is a heritage building, so you know, not far away, 176 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: John Love of Loving Company turned the original civic administration 177 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: building into apartments. That's an eighteen level structure. The very 178 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: expensive job, but very beautiful result. And John loved something 179 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: really interesting. He actually sought to patronize New Zealand businesses. 180 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: So the windows come from thermosash and the appliances I 181 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 1: think a Fisher and pikel and he went out to 182 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: be a patriot and do something quite different in terms 183 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: of that building. That's the largest office to residential conversion 184 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: in New Zealand. 185 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: Do we just need to move on from this idea 186 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 2: of needing to shop in the city or go into 187 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 2: the CBD, or you know, just that mentality and just 188 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 2: accept that city life has changed, it's not the hub 189 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 2: that it used to be, and just deal with it. 190 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I find it really interesting the Ikea 191 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: opening and the big focus on that a regional hub, 192 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, Sylvia Park, and also the huge popularity of 193 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: Costco Now. I think Nicola Willison announced when the cost 194 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,959 Speaker 1: Covers announced for Drury that there are two hundred and 195 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: fifty thousand members of Costco in New Zealand. Now those 196 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: people are all paying sixty dollars annual subscription. So I 197 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: think I think you're right to some extent, the CBD 198 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: is not what it was, although we have to remember 199 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: big precincts of it like Commercial Bay and Scott Pritchard 200 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: and precinct properties who have done the most outstanding job 201 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: of converting that area of the waterfront, but also like 202 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: Peter Cooper and Cooper and Company and Matthew Cochran, the 203 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: CEO with Britomart, which again is outstanding. So we have 204 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: that real mixture. You know, we're talking about Smith and Coe's, 205 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: but if you go down near the waterfront and look 206 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: at those two precincts. They're very different. You could be 207 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: in a totally different city right when you're I don't know, 208 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: walking past the beautiful Tiffany's store and Britomart and Tikomitt 209 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: Dounga Square and you know, just outside Commercial Bay, they 210 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: are very beautiful. And also the CPO has been refurbished 211 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 1: and that's owned by Cooper and co and facing Te 212 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: committed Tonguel Square, and that's a very different experience, right, 213 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: and it's somehow very indigenous with the way that they've integrated, 214 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: you know, the use of native plants and landscaping, the 215 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: hard landscaping, the colors, the design, the thoughtfulness and guess what, 216 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: there's a giant Christmas tree down there. At the moment 217 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: as I understand it, I've not seen it myself. 218 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: Oh that was going to be my next question. I know, 219 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 2: maybe we should go down there. So in terms of that, 220 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 2: that makes that what you say to me there and 221 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 2: what I think of Brittemart and in Commercial Bay and 222 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 2: the thoughtfulness behind that, that's what makes New Zealand special, 223 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 2: right is that thoughtfulness and that patriotism to our roots 224 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: and the design and architecture of it all. Do we 225 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: need that for Queen Street. 226 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: Well, it's just extraordinary when you think. You know, precinct 227 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 1: properties are billion dollars on Commercial Bay and by the way, 228 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: they haven't finished. They've got two very big towers up 229 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: to I think fifty six levels or more that will 230 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: be the tallest in New Zealand of the book when 231 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: they're book. And also Britamark Peter Cooper's vision of taking 232 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: eighteen run down, gyrelict old industrial warehouses populated by pigeons 233 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: and rats and a terrible straight and turning that into 234 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: the wonderful britom Ark precinct. What a vision that man has. Yes, 235 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: so how can you spread that? 236 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 2: See? 237 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: I think what makes those two precincts really special is 238 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: the waterfront location of them as well. And also you 239 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: have to pay tribute to Auckland Transport and the vision 240 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: to convert that part of Key Street. So Key Street 241 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: four Lane Highway was a thoroughfare very like I don't know, 242 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: if you've been to San Francisco and got off the 243 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: ferry there and tried to get into the Cebeach I have, yeah, right, 244 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: so you walk across the motorway, right, Yeah, Well that's 245 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: what Key Street used to be a little bit light, right, 246 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: And then I think that the vision that occurred there 247 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: is just outstanding and it really changes the city, and 248 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: it gives a completely different face to the city, for say, 249 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: the visitors on cruise ships. You know, it really is 250 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: outstanding what they've done. Wouldn't it be great if that 251 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: could be moved further up the street, you say, But 252 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: then you're getting away from the water work. 253 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 2: I know it's that hard cell that Queen Street is. 254 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 3: I need more jeanes? 255 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 2: Fine, let's go. 256 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: Slack awes. 257 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: So I never lend. 258 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 2: I've heard these ads for the City Rail Link, right, 259 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: everyone's obviously getting excited for it opening next year, and 260 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 2: I hear these ads being like, you could be at 261 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 2: your home looking at a pair of jeans on your 262 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 2: phone and be at Karangahabe Road in twenty minutes on 263 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 2: the CRL, and I kind of my first reaction was, well, 264 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 2: I can buy those jeans online, number one. Number two, 265 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 2: Why would I go into the city at all when 266 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: I can go and get those genes at Newmarket or 267 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: even Sylvia Park or something like that. But obviously there 268 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 2: is this push to bring people back and that suggestion 269 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 2: of yes you can, it's not long. You don't have 270 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: to look around for parking, you don't have to pay 271 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 2: for parking in the CBD because you've got the CRL 272 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 2: and the convenience of it. Do you think that that's 273 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 2: going to breathe new life into the city. 274 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: Well, I think we've got three things that are pretty amazing. 275 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: We've got the CRL, We've got the New Zealand International 276 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: Convention Center, and there is also the very big apartment 277 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: to our seascape. Now take one of those alone. For example, 278 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: with the CRL, the projection is nineteen thousand passengers in 279 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: the peak hour per hour. 280 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 3: Wow. 281 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: That is slightly down from the original twenty seven thousand 282 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: projection according to my colleague Bernard Oorsman, but still that 283 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: number of people. So cities really thrived when there are 284 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: lots of people. That's what they need to bring them alive. 285 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: So I think your point's a really good one. Seascape 286 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: yet to be finished with. I don't know whether Icon 287 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: Apparent it doesn't seem to have signed the contract with 288 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: Shaundi Customs to come in there, but there are evidently 289 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: people working on the site at the moment and the 290 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: ends that ice see the media open day in late 291 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: November and seeing inside there for the first time, and 292 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: you know the number of people who could come in there. 293 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: You know, they have got something like ninety five events 294 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: booked for next year alone. Wow, and you know something 295 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: like fifteen thousand, ten des are expected to go to 296 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: just fifteen of those. Now, the real beauty of what 297 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: we're talking about is crl to whyhot A two station. 298 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: The central one is right beside scar City Albert Street 299 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: with the scar City Grand actually faces the WAYHOA two station, 300 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: and so then you've got a series of three blocks 301 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: that Scarcity have connected up with walkways across the streets, 302 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: so that's sort of flow and that connection and those numbers, 303 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: we could really begin to see something change in the 304 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: heart of Auckland there. And I do have to pay 305 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: tribute to VIVBC and Heart of the City and all 306 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: that they are doing. It's a tough role. But you know, 307 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: I really hope that CR and the inns of at 308 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: ICC and these sort of changes in Auckland that it 309 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: will revive the center of town. I mean, I think 310 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: that is a reasonable expectation. 311 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 3: I would really hope. 312 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: So Actually, because I think about that convention center and 313 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 2: the people and the amount of people that it will 314 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: bring into Auckland, CBD. At the moment, though, would you 315 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 2: be embarrassed for a group of Danish diplomats wanting to 316 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 2: grab something for lunch or wanting to go and check 317 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 2: out the local shopping scene and walking down to Queen 318 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 2: Street from the International Convention Center. 319 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: I don't think we've got any reason to be embarrassed. 320 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,479 Speaker 1: I think some astonishing restaurants. And my favorite is actually 321 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: El Brown's the Depot. I just have to say that 322 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: because look, you can sit outside. I love the food. 323 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: I've been going there for years. Right beneath you know, 324 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: Skar City, right a block from the Convention Center, the 325 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: sky City Hotel, Horizon Hotel with a new onlex bar 326 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: is outstanding. Ahe by Ben Bailey down in Commercial Bay. 327 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: I mean, these are phenomenal places that really do the 328 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: best to showcase I think New Zealand food. You know, 329 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,959 Speaker 1: you've got the Depot, which is pretty casual and I 330 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: love that Kiwi style of it. And then Ben Bailey 331 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: with fire and all the beauty of his open kitchen 332 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: and the Cawi dishes and the beautiful tables. I mean, 333 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: those are just two that I'm naming, but I'm not 334 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: all embarrassed. I talk a couple of Irish friends up 335 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: through the CBD midwinter on the wettest Sunday imaginable, and 336 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,239 Speaker 1: they loved walking up Albert Street because guess what on 337 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: Albert Street I didn't know this. There are a whole 338 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: lot of boards explaining the history. So we walk quite 339 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: quickly past the yates and ex food ali vacant lot. 340 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 1: They didn't work on that because they're busy reading the 341 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: boards up Albert Street. And just in the last little 342 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: while we've also had I think at announced that the 343 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: buses are back on Albert Street, right, so that's beginning 344 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: to come alive after all that hell of the CRL. 345 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: But I don't think that we should think that the 346 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: CROL construction was. It's it's just not personal to us. 347 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: When they put the big Asian kilometer tram through the 348 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: center of Sydney. I mean, my friends who retailers there 349 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: had major conniptions. And I saw the tram, the light 350 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: rail going being built up and down the GC and 351 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,479 Speaker 1: Queensland right, same thing. You know, businesses complaining. But at 352 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: the end, guess what you can go from one end 353 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: of the Gold Coast right up to meet the heavy 354 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: rail and get into Brisbane. I mean the benefits of path. 355 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: I know the pain was extraordinary. I do appreciate that, 356 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: but I also think that in terms of the provision 357 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: of infrastructure, we need to be looking and thinking long term. 358 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: I got to tell you the story when the Harbor 359 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: Bridge was being built, and when it was finished in 360 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine, people said, why do we need a 361 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: harbor bridge? There's any strawberry fields on the north shore 362 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: back of vision. 363 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 2: So you've taken the diplomats out to dinner at our Browns, 364 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 2: obviously had a beautiful cocktail on us and seeing the 365 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 2: sunset on one of our beautiful rooftop bars. But then 366 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: what if you take them down Queen Street or up 367 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: Queen Street rather and past the same James Theater, past 368 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 2: the Metro Center, past the Dead Smith and Coe's. What 369 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 2: about that? 370 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: Not so good? 371 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 2: Not so good? 372 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: Not going on long way from the water gets worse, right, 373 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: But what I'd have to say to you is that 374 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: end of town is getting a number of large student 375 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: accommodation blocks one three hundred million, and so there's a 376 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: lot of students around there in the daytime, and those 377 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: blocks are actually quite perfectly situated in that location, just 378 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: oft Lawn Street actually between aut and the University of Auckland, 379 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: So there are positives. There is development going around there, 380 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,919 Speaker 1: just not on that just not so much on that 381 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: big strip, although the Childs are also converting an office 382 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: building into a hotel. Again, there is development occurring around there, 383 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: not as dramatic obviously as the changes on the waterfront. 384 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: So we shouldn't say is Auckland dying or dead? We 385 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 2: should say it isn't dead yet. 386 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: Auckland has been rebuilt and is being rebuilt, which is 387 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: terribly exciting. The worst thing that can happen is just 388 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: for people to leave and for me to be right 389 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: about all the dead sites. I don't want to be right. 390 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: I want to see the changes. I want to see 391 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: the excitement and the joy of it all, and the 392 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: coming alive and the people, just as you say, the 393 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: Danes arriving here and searching for the beautiful restaurants. 394 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Anne. 395 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: Chelsea. 396 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 397 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 398 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 2: at enzid Herald dot co dot enz The Front Page 399 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 2: is produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is 400 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 2: also our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the front 401 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 2: page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and 402 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 2: tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.