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Speaker 1: Time for politics. Wednesday, Mark Mitchell's with us along with

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Speaker 1: Jinny Anderson. Good morning to you both.

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Speaker 2: Morning, Mike, morning, Jenny, Good morning, Mark, Good morning Mike.

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Speaker 1: How were you, Jinny yesterday with the apology? How did

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Speaker 1: that sort of feel?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 2: I was. I was in shed Sex, so I got

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Speaker 2: to sit with survivors as we watched the live stream

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Speaker 2: down in Wellington, and that was a remarkable experience to

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Speaker 2: sit and watch Parliament alongside people who were heckling politicians

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Speaker 2: and calling out and responding with their own experiences. So

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Speaker 2: it was humbling and pretty heavy feeling. And then I

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Speaker 2: got the opportunity of talking with them because there's a

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Speaker 2: number of breaks during that time to talk to them,

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Speaker 2: and they told me about some of their experiences. So

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Speaker 2: it was it was, it was really heavy, and it

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Speaker 2: was it felt like a good day, but it was

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Speaker 2: there was a lot going on.

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Speaker 3: What about you, Marke, Yeah, I just think it was

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Speaker 3: an emotional day for sort of everyone involved, and it

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Speaker 3: was a important an important historical day for us as

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Speaker 3: a country. And I think that, you know, although some

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Speaker 3: people say words don't matter, I think when it's an

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Speaker 3: apology and it's a heartfelt apology, then actually it does matter,

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Speaker 3: and that recognition matters. So I was on one of

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Speaker 3: one of the ministers involved in the response by the government.

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Speaker 3: So I spent the full day with survivors. I had

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Speaker 3: a very interesting long chat with three gang members that

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Speaker 3: were there, who all want to leave the gang and

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Speaker 3: looking for ways to do that. But so it's just

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Speaker 3: it was a good opportunity for all of us to

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Speaker 3: be able to spend quality time with them and send

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Speaker 3: a message that they had been heard and now it's

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Speaker 3: time to move forward.

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Speaker 1: I've got more questions, but let me just get this

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Speaker 1: out of the way. Jerry brownly looks and I've got

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Speaker 1: to agree with them. Where this is not you Mark,

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Speaker 1: because yeah, there's an operational matter. But where were the police,

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Speaker 1: for goodness sake? If it was more than heckling, they

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Speaker 1: were super slow.

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Speaker 2: I think that's make might be going, Oh he's gone.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of it?

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Speaker 2: Look it was I'm pretty sure it was. It was

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Speaker 2: a Destiny affiliated person who jumped up. It was first

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Speaker 2: of all, was it was not his day, it was

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Speaker 2: it was offensive of those survivors who were there. So

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Speaker 2: usually the police are up there whenever I'm sitting in

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Speaker 2: question time I can see a police officer up there,

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Speaker 2: so they typically are around, and so I think it's

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Speaker 2: hard sometimes in a full gallery physically to weigh in

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Speaker 2: amongst people and weed someone out, to in phasectionally remove them.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, for some reason, I dropped out, so I only

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Speaker 3: got part of your question.

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Speaker 1: The question was where were the police. I mean, Browne

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Speaker 1: was beside himself, and I think right if somebody had

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Speaker 1: a gun or a bomb or ill intent, it was

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Speaker 1: too slow.

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Speaker 3: So obviously parliamentary security handled it. And by the way,

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Speaker 3: they did an outstanding job. And if there.

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Speaker 1: Was, the guy was yelling and renting and raving for

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Speaker 1: a ludicrous amount of time. I couldn't help a contrast.

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Speaker 1: And I was watching it live. I couldn't help the contrast.

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Speaker 1: If that was America, people would have been taken out

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Speaker 1: within seconds. In fact, they wouldn't have. Given thee was

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Speaker 1: a serial operator, he wouldn't have been let in the

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Speaker 1: first place.

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Speaker 3: Well, bearing in mind that he's already come through security,

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Speaker 3: so he's already had security checks, so he wouldn't have

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Speaker 3: had weapons in there with them. Secondly that yes, they

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Speaker 3: could have jumped all over them. There could have been

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Speaker 3: a big fight with bearing in mind that we had

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Speaker 3: survivors and we had members of the public in there,

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Speaker 3: and the best way to handle it was the way

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Speaker 3: that Parliamentary Services did and that they had to use force.

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Speaker 3: But they had the numbers there and they removed them

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Speaker 3: and what I think was probably the least impactful way. Yes,

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Speaker 3: it was annoying to have the ceremony interrupted like that,

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Speaker 3: but I think it would have been much worse if

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Speaker 3: there was serious violence met it out in front of

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Speaker 3: people that have suffered and gone through what they've gone through.

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Speaker 1: Geney, I tell you who I sort of felt sorry

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Speaker 1: for yesterday was the Solicitor General. And I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: that people understand when all the department had stood up

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Speaker 1: and said sorry. I thought the Department of Health Guard

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Speaker 1: was probably the best. But but but Joe Goes, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that people understand that a lawyer is there

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Speaker 1: to represent their clients, in this case the government, and

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Speaker 1: you do your best on behalf of that client and

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Speaker 1: whether or not it looks to the rest of the

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Speaker 1: world like the right thing to do is not really

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Speaker 1: the point, is it.

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Speaker 2: She would be acting on behalf of the government, so

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Speaker 2: the action she took are at that, you know, is

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Speaker 2: due to that.

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Speaker 1: So you're right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought her apology was heartfelt, but it was

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Speaker 2: you could see it was incredibly difficult for her. And

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Speaker 2: but I have to empathize also with survivors who you know,

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Speaker 2: her name is on emails. She's obstructing people getting compensation,

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Speaker 2: so you know, I can see both.

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Speaker 1: Of you, but under instruction from her clients.

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Speaker 3: She's not personally trying to obstruct anyone. She's doing her

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Speaker 3: job as a solicitor general. And I spoke I win't

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Speaker 3: spoke to a straight afterwards, because look, there was as

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Speaker 3: you could see, Mike, there's a lot of emotion in

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Speaker 3: the day, and these are chief executives that stood up,

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Speaker 3: and I thought they all did an outstanding job. They're

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Speaker 3: talking about things that have happened in our past as

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Speaker 3: a country and making an apology, and so I think

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Speaker 3: that she's, you know, she's she does an outstanding job.

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Speaker 3: I hope that she didn't take that personally. I think

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Speaker 3: it was direct at the office and people were venting,

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Speaker 3: which is I.

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Speaker 2: Think people too. It's it's the compensation issue, which is outstanding.

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Speaker 2: All of the survivors I spoke with, you know, while

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Speaker 2: the apology is just the start. Abuse is still happening.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot more work ahead to ensure that our

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Speaker 2: care systems are safe places. But there are many people

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Speaker 2: out there who are in the later stages of their

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Speaker 2: lives who are due compensation. I think that's the outstanding question.

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Speaker 1: This is this is the can of worms you've got, Mark,

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Speaker 1: is that first of all, you must know, you all

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Speaker 1: must know that no matter what you do, someone somewhere

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Speaker 1: is going to be unhappy with it all. And so

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Speaker 1: how you present it when you present it in the

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Speaker 1: time and there you can feel the pressure already count you, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, you know, we have to respond to that with

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Speaker 3: the government of the day. And that's what we're doing

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Speaker 3: is Eric has already made sure that we've put measures

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Speaker 3: in place. There's four thousand people that are still sitting

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Speaker 3: there waiting, so we're going to fast track them through

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Speaker 3: a fast tracked process. And of course the building fled

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Speaker 3: out a proper readers system that will be launched next year,

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Speaker 3: because yes, we do want to get this stune quickly.

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Speaker 1: Did you, Jenny, upon reading Audrey Young's piece in the

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Speaker 1: Herald basically ranking you the second most effective member of

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Speaker 1: the opposition, did you shout every one morning tea or.

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Speaker 2: No. We haven't head of caucus yet, so I haven't

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Speaker 2: had the opportunity to offer that. But look, you know,

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Speaker 2: we've got a really strong team, and I'm proud to

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Speaker 2: be one of those people. We're Just because you don't

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Speaker 2: get picked up by Audrey doesn't mean these other hard

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Speaker 2: people wishing incredibly hard. So yeah, it was nice to

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Speaker 2: be acknowledged, but lots of other people who didn't get

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Speaker 2: acknowledged were just as hard as I do.

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Speaker 1: She described Duncan web as having a fairly inauspicious stuf

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Speaker 1: to life in terms of being a cabinet minister, and basically,

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Speaker 1: she said, is a bit useless, but he might have

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Speaker 1: come to life. Would you agree with it?

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Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't. Thatcken's amazing. It's really good to have

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Speaker 2: someone with the breadth of legal knowledge that he does

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Speaker 2: in particularly and constitutional issues, and we work together really

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Speaker 2: closely on bills such as the Treaty Principles one, which

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Speaker 2: is coming up this Thursday. So having his knowledge and

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Speaker 2: background is a huge seat for our team.

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Speaker 1: The old Treaty Principles. Bill Mark, here's the text for

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Speaker 1: you this morning. Hi, Mike, I hope you're going to

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Speaker 1: give Mark Mitchell grief this morning over the Hikoy protest

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Speaker 1: posing down lanes on the Auckland Harbor Bridge. How do

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Speaker 1: you balance that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So basically MGTA has come up with a traffic

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Speaker 3: management plan working with the Hikoy Police are there to

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Speaker 3: ensure that there is no breach to the peace or

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Speaker 3: law's being broken. Fundamentally, from what I understand, they crossing

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Speaker 3: the bridge at nine point thirty. Of course he would

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Speaker 3: have preferred said a bit later than that. But what's

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Speaker 3: important in the shutting down. They're not shutting down southbound lanes. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's right, So there's as little impact as possible on people,

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Speaker 3: which is of course what the aim is. The reality

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Speaker 3: is it is much better to keep this and organized,

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Speaker 3: HEIKOI than trying to break it up and splintering it

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Speaker 3: and you end up with a whole lot of unauthorized

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Speaker 3: protests going on all over the show, and that would

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Speaker 3: that would just create absolute chaos.

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Speaker 2: So you wouldn't it be easier though? But wouldn't it

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Speaker 2: be easier if Christopher Luxon just told David Seymour to

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Speaker 2: stick a stupid bell. Wouldn't that be a made be

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Speaker 2: really easy?

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Speaker 1: And then then all the people who voted in an

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Speaker 1: election and the democratic process, Jenny wouldn't have what they

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Speaker 1: voted for, which would sort of make it slightly complicated.

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Speaker 2: Which is what a bill that goes nowhere, a bill

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Speaker 2: that goes nowhere, what is the output or the outcome

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Speaker 2: for that belt.

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Speaker 1: I do tend to agree with you on that said,

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Speaker 1: the weird thing about it's not your problem, Mark, but

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Speaker 1: I mean how Luxe and got that across the line,

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Speaker 1: to the point you got it across the lines the

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Speaker 1: weirdest thing because you guys must have known it was

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Speaker 1: going to be a pain in your butt in something

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Speaker 1: you're not supporting.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's called him MP, and he had a very

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Speaker 3: difficult job that he had to take on in terms

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Speaker 3: of negotiating with two other parties and there were bottom

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Speaker 3: lines around those and he had to negotiate the best

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Speaker 3: way forward and through that to former government. And Ginny

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Speaker 3: Anderson and the Labor Party will find out all about

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Speaker 3: the m MP when they come to the election twenty six, Well,

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Speaker 3: they'll find out. They'll find out the demands that are

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Speaker 3: going to be put on them if they want to

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Speaker 3: campaign try and form a government in twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 3: they're going to find out that they've got a partner,

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Speaker 3: i e. To Party marry party, that we're going to

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Speaker 3: have some pretty ugly demands put on them.

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Speaker 2: That's the racial division. The huge upheaval that's causing is

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Speaker 2: just a political power deal. That's what key. We have

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Speaker 2: a tough time, there's no output.

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Speaker 1: Nice to see you guys. Will catch up next Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate it verty much, Jenny Anderson, Mark Mitchell.

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Speaker 3: For more from The Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 3: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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