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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcast now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all

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Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of theis now the Leyton

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Speaker 1: Smith Podcast powered by News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to podcast two hundred and ninety three for July sixteen,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. I'm approaching this podcast just a little differently,

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Speaker 2: almost backwards, you might say, or in reverse. Most of

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Speaker 2: you will be familiar with David Bell, but let me

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Speaker 2: tell you. For those who aren't, let me tell you

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Speaker 2: about David Bell. He is a senior scholar at Brownstone Institute.

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Speaker 2: But he is a public health physician and biotech consultant

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Speaker 2: in global health. He's a former medical officer and scientist

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Speaker 2: at the World Health Organization program head for Malaria and

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Speaker 2: Febrile Diseases at the Foundation for Innovative New Diagnostics in Geneva,

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Speaker 2: and Director of Global Health Technologies at Intellectual Ventures Global

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Speaker 2: Good Fund in Bellevue, Washington State, USA. So they are

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Speaker 2: some of his qualifications, because there are more. His latest

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Speaker 2: contribution was on July eleven, update on international health regulation amendments.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to suggest something in a moment with regard

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Speaker 2: to those of you who have a vital interest in

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Speaker 2: this particular topic, and can I suggest, may I suggest

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Speaker 2: that that should be each and every one of us.

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Speaker 2: I discovered much more than I knew that I was missing,

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Speaker 2: if that makes sense, in collating some of David Bell's

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Speaker 2: articles over the last few months. And all I can

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Speaker 2: say is that it has supplied me with a wealth

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Speaker 2: of knowledge in this area that I certainly didn't have,

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Speaker 2: and I would imagine that many of you will want

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Speaker 2: to be in the same position.

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Speaker 3: So we'll get to that moment.

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Speaker 2: Let me quote you a little of some of the

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Speaker 2: articles that I've referred to. The United States in Argentina

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Speaker 2: have stated their intent to leave the WHO. The era

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Speaker 2: of principles and ideals is long gone from international health.

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Speaker 2: More money will be channeled to ever growing bureaucracies whose

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Speaker 2: sole function, whose only reason for existence is to identify

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Speaker 2: theoretical threats that can be used to close economies, remove

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Speaker 2: the livelihoods of others, and extract more of their remaining wealth.

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Speaker 2: The hapless inhabitants of WHO member states and that includes US,

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Speaker 2: seem to have no real leaders anymore. Eventually, the whole

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Speaker 2: edifice will collapse under the weight of its own fallacies

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Speaker 2: and economic unsustainability. In the meantime, the sad corporatist mess

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Speaker 2: that international public health has become will continue to be

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Speaker 2: in debt and demoralize its public. Now some of the

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Speaker 2: articles are headed a false claims of the Who's Pandemic Agreement,

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Speaker 2: the Who's Draft Pandemic Agreement, pointless verbiage defunding GAVY an

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Speaker 2: innocent step toward decolonization. GAVY is largely funded by the

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Speaker 2: Gates Foundation. That should tell you something and update on

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Speaker 2: international health regulation amendments, which I think I just said

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Speaker 2: was the most recent one, but there are a number

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Speaker 2: of other articles now. They contain a wealth of information,

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Speaker 2: They answer a lot of questions, and I can only

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Speaker 2: suggest that by going to Brownstone Institute searching David Bell's name,

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Speaker 2: which will supply you with all of the above at

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Speaker 2: a long list they are and you can select what

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Speaker 2: you want to read. But my guess is that you

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Speaker 2: want to read everything that David's written because it's that

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Speaker 2: good and that worthwhile, and that revealing we are not

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Speaker 2: in a good situation in this country. There's one section

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Speaker 2: the growth of human resilience, just to give you an

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Speaker 2: idea of what I mean. So back to sanitation, nutrition,

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Speaker 2: and living conditions. Relatively recently we figured out that or

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Speaker 2: what pathogens are bacteria, viruses, protozoa, nematode, worms, and the like,

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Speaker 2: and better understood how to avoid them altogether. Many of

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Speaker 2: the pathogens that used to kill us spread from person

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Speaker 2: to persons through a fecal oral route, as it is

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Speaker 2: euphemistically called. They reproduce within the body and the resulting

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Speaker 2: multitude move on when we defecate. If someone then drinks

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Speaker 2: water contaminated by that, they get infected. You get the picture.

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Speaker 2: Pathogens that's spread by respiratory routes to cause disease e g.

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Speaker 2: Influenza and COVID nineteen are more likely to pass between

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Speaker 2: people if they live in confined space with poor air circulation.

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Speaker 2: But I'm trying to get to here is good nutrition

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Speaker 2: is absolutely essential for us to mount an effective immune response,

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Speaker 2: whether to an organism or a vaccine. The cells in

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Speaker 2: the immune system have specific requirements such as vitamins D K, two,

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Speaker 2: C and E and zinc and magnesium, and cannot function

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Speaker 2: well without an adequate concentration of them. They can also

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Speaker 2: be impaired in their function when our general metabolism is impaired,

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Speaker 2: such as in diabetes, starvation, or chronic diseases and anemia.

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Speaker 2: So that paints a picture that some people have been

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Speaker 2: talking about for some considerable time. Some people on this

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Speaker 2: podcast also But that's only a taste of what we'll

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Speaker 2: get from David Bell when we get into the discussion shortly.

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Speaker 2: Then the mail room of course with missus producer, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of tributes to Professor des Gorman and a

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Speaker 2: touch of AI at the back end of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: I have a feeling that AI is going to cause

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Speaker 2: a lot more trouble socially than might have been anticipated.

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Speaker 2: Only time will tell. Buccolan is a natural oral vaccine

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Speaker 2: in a tablet form called bacterial nicet. It'll boost your

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Speaker 2: natural protection against bacterial infections in your chest and throat.

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Speaker 2: A three day course of seven Buckland tablets will help

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Speaker 2: your body build up to three months of immunity against

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Speaker 2: bugs which cause bacterial cold symptoms. So who can take

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Speaker 2: buccolan well, the whole family From two years of age

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Speaker 2: and upwards. A course of Buckelan tablets offers cost effective

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Speaker 2: and safe protection from colds and chills. Protection becomes effective

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Speaker 2: a few days after you take buccolan and lasts for

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Speaker 2: up to three months following the three day course. Buccolan

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Speaker 2: can be taken throughout the cold season, over winter, or

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Speaker 2: all the year round. And remember Buckelan is not intended

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Speaker 2: as an all alternative to influenza vaccination, but may be

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Speaker 2: used along with the flu vaccination for added protection. And

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Speaker 2: keep in mind that millions of doses have been taken

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Speaker 2: by Kiwi's for over fifty years. Only available from your pharmacist.

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Speaker 2: Always read the label and users directed, and see your

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Speaker 2: doctor if systems persist.

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Speaker 3: Farmer Broker Auckland Layton Smith.

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Speaker 2: An update on the International Health Regulation amendments by David

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Speaker 2: Bell is an interesting conclusion to this point anyway, of

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Speaker 2: a series of articles that he's written since we last spoke,

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Speaker 2: and we'll touch on those sooner or later. But David's

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Speaker 2: great to have you back on the podcast, and it's

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Speaker 2: been I think eight months, and if I'm honest, I say,

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Speaker 2: I have to say that I've missed you, and that's

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Speaker 2: not anybody's fault but mine.

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Speaker 3: I think, thanks, so it could be back.

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Speaker 2: So the update on International Health Regulation Amendments published on

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Speaker 2: July eleven. Much has been written on the amendments to

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Speaker 2: the International Health Regulations the IHR, which most countries are

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Speaker 2: making themselves subject to after July nineteen, which, as we're

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Speaker 2: recording this on the fifteenth, is about four days away.

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Speaker 2: So many raised concerns of loss of sovereignty, censorship, corporate greed,

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Speaker 2: and conflict of interest, but most are missing the main point,

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Speaker 2: the sheer and outright stupidity and fallacy on which the

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Speaker 2: whole pandemic agenda is based. It's pretty brave of you

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Speaker 2: to say something like that.

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Speaker 3: Please explain, Well, it's evidence based, so it's not that

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Speaker 3: brave to just to say, you know, the grass is green,

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Speaker 3: which it is. We haven't had a confirmed, large natural

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Speaker 3: pandemic on Earth since the Spanish Flu, which was over

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Speaker 3: a century ago, before we had antibiotics, before we had

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Speaker 3: good medical, modern medical treatment, all that comes with that.

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Speaker 3: And you know, since that time, infectious disease dest in

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Speaker 3: general have plummeted due to better sanitation, better living conditions,

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Speaker 3: better nutrition. We all live longer, especially in wealthy countries,

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Speaker 3: and the reasons for that are the same as the

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Speaker 3: reasons why it would survive a pandemic. If the Spanish

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Speaker 3: flu came again, they're exactly the same virus, we would

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Speaker 3: have a fraction of the mortality rate that we did

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Speaker 3: then because most people and Anthony Fauci, formerly National Intersues

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Speaker 3: of Health in US has written a paper on this

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Speaker 3: that most people probably died from secondary bacterial infections readily

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Speaker 3: treated with antibiotics. So since then we had an outbreak

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Speaker 3: that they've fifties one or late sixties both influenza swine

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Speaker 3: flu killed a quarter of the number that normally die

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Speaker 3: of seasonal flu. So it was nothing in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and nine, and then we had COVID, which appears very

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Speaker 3: likely to have come from a lab, but even if

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Speaker 3: it didn't, the WHO records about seven millions of and

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Speaker 3: a half million deaths with COVID in the whole world

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Speaker 3: over the whole period, and that's probably about accurate with COVID.

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Speaker 3: Most of those were over seventy over seventy five years

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Speaker 3: of age, and most had significant comorbidities. Are already sick,

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Speaker 3: that's why they died of COVID, So it shortened their

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Speaker 3: lives a bit, which is unfortunate, but it's not anything

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Speaker 3: like the major pandemics of the past, and it probably

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Speaker 3: came from a lab, you know, in which case it

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Speaker 3: stoppered by improving biosecurity in labs and not doing gain

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Speaker 3: a function research or other highly reckless a lot of

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Speaker 3: activities that people are paid to do. So there's this

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Speaker 3: People like to talk about an age of pandemics and

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Speaker 3: all this stuff, but it's just the evidence is the opposite.

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Speaker 3: And very few people say this because all the money

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Speaker 3: is on the pandemics and on the pandemic preparation and

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Speaker 3: public health. So you know what I'm saying. We've got,

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Speaker 3: you know, the project of the University of Leeds that

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Speaker 3: we've mentioned before last year, the Repair Project for instance,

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Speaker 3: is the evidence is very clear. Looking at the WHO,

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Speaker 3: the World Bank, the G twenty's own evidence that they

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Speaker 3: use to say that we have a huge problem from pandemics,

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Speaker 3: it's very clear that we haven't. And they misuse citations

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Speaker 3: and some of them I mentioned the article you mentioned

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Speaker 3: the two twenty twenty three who put out two articles

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Speaker 3: to support this whole pandemic agenda called Managing Epidemics Epidemics

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Speaker 3: and Version two and the Future Surveillance, and they both

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Speaker 3: use the same graphic, which is a graphic that shows

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Speaker 3: in the year two thousand, no outbreaks, and then suddenly

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Speaker 3: we get all these outbreaks up to year twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: or so, and things like play, yellow fever, influenza, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: You know, things that we've had, we've had for centuries,

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Speaker 3: and we're far, far worse in the past, and they

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Speaker 3: produce this graphic that suggests to anyone looking at it

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Speaker 3: that they were all starting and getting worse in the

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Speaker 3: last twenty years, the opposite of reality, and the who

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Speaker 3: knows this that graphic should show the opposite. And then

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Speaker 3: this is the the only basis they use to push

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Speaker 3: these whole soul gender in these publications, and we've seen

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Speaker 3: the same from the World Bank, from the g twenty

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Speaker 3: And there's a reason for this because you know that

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Speaker 3: there is huge profits to be made in area. But

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Speaker 3: it's not public health. It's a business thing, and people

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Speaker 3: keep mistaking it for public health.

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Speaker 2: And all right, let's pause there and just go back

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Speaker 2: on this a little. What you're saying is it's a scam.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, in terms of public health, it's a scam.

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Speaker 3: The idea that we have increasing more totally different pandemics

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Speaker 3: over the last century or so and over the last

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Speaker 3: decades is false, certainly from natural pandemics. You can say

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Speaker 3: what you like about COVID if you ignore the age

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Speaker 3: of death, et cetera. But yes, it's a false narrative.

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Speaker 2: How many I know, you can't put a number on it,

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Speaker 2: but generally, how many other people in similar positions to

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Speaker 2: yourself agree with you?

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Speaker 3: How many openly say they agree? Probably a few percent.

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Speaker 3: I think of people working in international public health, how

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Speaker 3: many genuinely agree? I think probably the majority, just based

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Speaker 3: on anecdotally. If I've sat down in groups of people

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Speaker 3: and we've talked it through and everyone's agreed sort of thing,

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Speaker 3: but none of them will say it publicly, and then

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Speaker 3: you know, you're in a meeting and they all say

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Speaker 3: the opposite. But because people know that potentially extremely damaging

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Speaker 3: to your career to say this, because all the money

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Speaker 3: is in the for the research, for the implementation, so on,

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Speaker 3: is on the pandemic agenda, but no one, you know.

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Speaker 3: We published in the University of Leeds Repair Project published

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Speaker 3: the report two reports, one on risk, one on finance,

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Speaker 3: and then a number of reports since then pointing out

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Speaker 3: fallacy faults in the modeling of the average age and

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Speaker 3: what you know. There's papers out and reports out there.

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Speaker 3: One you'll send to the news in and oral Commission

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Speaker 3: on COVID saying two and a half million people die

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Speaker 3: every year from pandemics. That's if you use the few

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Speaker 3: body plague and medieval time games and you translate it

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Speaker 3: onto today's population, which is our city. And no one

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Speaker 3: has refuted any of the evidence that we've has been

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Speaker 3: put up that we put up through leads. But because

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Speaker 3: it is from the sources that these the same sources

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Speaker 3: that these institutions are misquoting, so it's not really it

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Speaker 3: shouldn't be controversial, and it wasn't. A couple of decades

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Speaker 3: ago everyone accepted that infectious disease was getting much rarer.

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Speaker 3: Suddenly it's getting what we told is getting more common.

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Speaker 3: But no one is suggesting why. There's this idea of

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Speaker 3: global warming, et cetera. But there's no good evidence tying

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Speaker 3: climate change to any significant increase in diseases, apart from

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Speaker 3: a few to viruses like chicken gun you and dinghy

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Speaker 3: that eighties of jipdi or other vectors spread slightly high latitudes,

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Speaker 3: but they're not that they have tiny mortality compared to

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Speaker 3: overall ortaiti. And there's things that Hilaria. Actually in the

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Speaker 3: temperate zones where they should be getting worse with the

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Speaker 3: climate change, you're getting better. It's in the tropics that

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Speaker 3: they're getting worse. So there's no good evidence tying climate

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Speaker 3: change to a significant increase. Deforestation has always gone on,

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Speaker 3: so that that's really a false taim when people say

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Speaker 3: deforestation and more contact with wildlife, we're killing off wildlife.

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Speaker 3: So there's going to be less human wildlife contact overall,

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Speaker 3: not more. So. It just, you know, it's built on

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Speaker 3: this series of fallacies that point out in the article,

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Speaker 3: and people are getting tied up, you know, reasonably with

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Speaker 3: things that you know, just binge on sovereignty, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: And it is going to be extremely costly. And there's

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Speaker 3: a whole lot of reasons why we shouldn't go down

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Speaker 3: the road of the intellatrial health regulation amendments. But people

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Speaker 3: need to step back and realize that the whole thing

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Speaker 3: is is just really based on falsehoods, and so we

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Speaker 3: shouldn't even be arguing over these nuances.

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Speaker 2: What do you say based on falsehood's The word fear

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Speaker 2: springs to mind and that's what drives it mostly.

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Speaker 3: It is it's very easy to get people scared of

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Speaker 3: infectious diseases. One hundred years ago, if you had eight kids,

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Speaker 3: you expected two or three of them to die in childhood,

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Speaker 3: and that almost never happens now. And it's actually it's

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Speaker 3: not vaccination that's done and it helps a little bit,

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Speaker 3: but it's mostly better living conditions, better food, better sanitation,

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Speaker 3: and this most of them mortally went away before we

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Speaker 3: had mass vaccination for first diseases. So and antibiotics obviously

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Speaker 3: help with inside childhood pneumonia. So infectious disease has become

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Speaker 3: relatively rare so to your infectious disease, but the fear

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Speaker 3: has detainly increased, and it's it's almost as if his

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Speaker 3: absence makes it more scary. Whereas you know, if you go,

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Speaker 3: say to some Subaharan African country, where it's pretty common

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Speaker 3: for a few children in a class to die before

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Speaker 3: that class has finished primary school, there's not this hysteria

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Speaker 3: over something like COVID.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned the fauci a moment ago. He is probably

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Speaker 2: the head hon show, if I may put it that way,

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Speaker 2: on the planet with regard to misleading and a driving force.

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Speaker 2: If you disagree with me, say.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, I do. I do disagree. I agree he

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Speaker 3: was misinfoming people. And I mean he admits his published

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Speaker 3: papers saying the vaccine was never likely to work, and

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Speaker 3: he said he deliberately misled people on not wear the

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Speaker 3: mass work or not et cetera. I think he's sort

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Speaker 3: of small fry in a way. I think this is

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Speaker 3: a huge finance driven issue. The Western world is largely

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Speaker 3: run by very large finance corporations, and the large corporations

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Speaker 3: that they have majority shareholdings in, or are the larger

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Speaker 3: shareholders in, like media, Farmer, et cetera, and they are

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Speaker 3: pulling the strings. The World Economic Forum has for the

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Speaker 3: last twenty years, all our leaders have trotted off to

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Speaker 3: Davos every year to meet with all these people behind

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Speaker 3: closed doors and do their deals. And they have been,

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Speaker 3: as Klaus Schwab said a few years ago, they've been

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Speaker 3: training the leaders of many countries. And well, we're well

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Speaker 3: familiar with that. Yes. So I think people like Fauci

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Speaker 3: are doing what they're paid to do, and very willingly perhaps,

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Speaker 3: But I think this is more a sort of it's

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Speaker 3: an inevigable consequence of for profit companies that are no

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Speaker 3: longer bound to any nation state and normal set of laws,

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Speaker 3: and are so big that they can essentially change the

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Speaker 3: laws to suit themselves.

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Speaker 2: Look, let me let me counter you, because I don't

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Speaker 2: entirely agree with you, and I'm both to say it.

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Speaker 2: But Fai Fauci was the public face. He was in

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Speaker 2: the highest paid job in the US civil Service. He

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Speaker 2: knew at the time, and you just said that he

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Speaker 2: admitted these things. He knew at the time that it

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Speaker 2: was bullshit, but he proceeded. Now, he didn't have to

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Speaker 2: do that. You didn't do that. You've been you've been

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Speaker 2: campaigning on a line of it's much closer to the

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Speaker 2: truth than Fauci ever did. And Fauci was involved in

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Speaker 2: the manipulation and the shall we say, underground activities that

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Speaker 2: contributed to where things got. So surely it's got to

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Speaker 2: be on his shoulders to some considerable degree.

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Speaker 3: I agree. Yeah, when I say is one of the

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Speaker 3: mini when.

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Speaker 2: I but when I when I say he is the

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Speaker 2: head honchow. His appearance was of that because he was

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Speaker 2: constantly being by by American media, in particular, being sought

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Speaker 2: out to confirm this and that and something else, and

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Speaker 2: he happily appears that he happily did so.

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Speaker 3: No, I agree with that so and he could have

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Speaker 3: done otherwise. But there's a good book come out recently

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Speaker 3: by Debbie Luhrmann's I read it the other day that

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Speaker 3: they will come back. But essentially it lays out the

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Speaker 3: role of the security contexts behind COVID. It's very interesting

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Speaker 3: that the US response was not run by the public

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Speaker 3: Health Service, it wasn't run by an i H or CDC.

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Speaker 3: It was run by the security services. And they overtly

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Speaker 3: took it over in mid March and were less from

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Speaker 3: it before then, and they put Deborah Berks into place, etc.

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Speaker 3: And it's laid out very well in this book. And

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Speaker 3: the Dutch governors admitted that the situation was similar over

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Speaker 3: there and within NATO, and I suspect other countries were

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Speaker 3: the same. You could argue that they saw this as

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Speaker 3: a bio weapon threat from China or something, although it

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Speaker 3: doesn't wick it well because it's pretty clear that they

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Speaker 3: were closely involved with Fauchi. The NIH funded the development

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Speaker 3: of coronavirus. The gain of function research on coronavirus is

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Speaker 3: that very likely result in COVID, but it's much deeper

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Speaker 3: than a few people in a public health service misrepresenting

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Speaker 3: the truth and misrepresenting how to deal with a virus

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Speaker 3: that killed people in average age of over seventy five.

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Speaker 3: So there was something probably much more unpleasant going on

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Speaker 3: in the background. The head of CDC at the time

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Speaker 3: is more recently Robert Redford read Redburn. Anyway, he has

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Speaker 3: said quite openly that it was probably gained a function

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Speaker 3: research and that a lot of the response was completely wrong,

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Speaker 3: not a public health response. But he could again, he

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Speaker 3: could have said that at the time, but instead he

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Speaker 3: stood in Congress and said that masks are the best

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Speaker 3: way for stopping a virus. Do you think of his name?

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Speaker 3: Wasn't Robert read for the Act? There? No the actor.

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Speaker 3: I feel stupid not remembering. Now it'll come back.

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Speaker 2: I know the I know the feeling by the way

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Speaker 2: the book is the Deep State goes viral. Yes, I've

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Speaker 2: got I've got a pile of books over there. In fact,

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Speaker 2: there's two piles now of books that have arrived and

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Speaker 2: I haven't yet had a chance to look. I just

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Speaker 2: keep I can't help myself anyway, I've got the book.

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Speaker 2: That's the point I feel written. I shall now refer

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Speaker 2: to it a little a little more. Look, actually, while

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Speaker 2: while we're at that point, there is a growing desire

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Speaker 2: and drive I think to stop talking about COVID, get

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Speaker 2: over it, move on. You know, some people think that

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Speaker 2: it's been and gone and there's no point in spending

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Speaker 2: any more time on it.

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Speaker 3: What do you say to that. Well, firstly, there I mean,

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Speaker 3: it is still being pushed. The vaccinations are still being pushed.

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Speaker 3: There's been an issue in the US as a new

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Speaker 3: moderna version has just been approved for children, et cetera,

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Speaker 3: so that the issue hasn't gone away. It illustrated a

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Speaker 3: government slash corporate partnership which deliberately misled the public on

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Speaker 3: a massive scale and in the process made a very

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Speaker 3: small percentage of population extremely rich. Well, most people got

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Speaker 3: much poorer, many people lost their businesses, all the rest

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Speaker 3: of it, and the whole pandemic agenda that is going forward.

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Speaker 3: So in a few days time, the time expires to

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Speaker 3: reject the International Health Regulation amendments, et cetera. We had

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Speaker 3: the Pandemic Agreement more or less agreed last May so

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Speaker 3: just recently, and there is a whole string of other

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Speaker 3: things that are going on around who and world Bank,

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Speaker 3: et cetera on pandemics, So they're designed now to repeat

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Speaker 3: what happened COVID frequently, and so COVID is just the start.

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Speaker 3: So if we think COVID's gone away and the problem

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Speaker 3: has gone away, we're sort of fooling ourselves, and the

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Speaker 3: harms that we're done through COVID will be multiplied over

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Speaker 3: the next decade or two. We are being misled deliberately

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Speaker 3: by these agencies in order to really do to serve

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Speaker 3: the interests of a very small, very powerful and rich

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Speaker 3: group of corporations and people. And if we don't recognize that,

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Speaker 3: then we probably won't have a democracy anymore. So it's

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Speaker 3: sort of an existential threat to democracy, not to our health,

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Speaker 3: this whole agenda, and I think we need to take

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Speaker 3: that seriously. And if you read Debbie's book, Got, it

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Speaker 3: showed us regarding the deep state, and it's a triggering term.

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Speaker 3: But it's the very large bureaucracies that have grown up

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Speaker 3: to run Western countries and are very linked with the

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Speaker 3: military industrial complex Eisenhower told us about, and the large

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Speaker 3: corporations for financial institutions which are all tied together through

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Speaker 3: the Builderberg Group and the Council for foreign relations, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: I mean, these aren't fallacies. These are real things that

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Speaker 3: actually exist, actually meet regularly, and actually are highly in

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Speaker 3: cluential on our governments and our societies. So we can

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Speaker 3: ignore all that and just go down this road of

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Speaker 3: essentially losing our whole democratic process and becoming peasants again

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Speaker 3: of a small elite who say openly they want to

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Speaker 3: run the country and they want to run the world,

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Speaker 3: and to a largest that not have countries, or we

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Speaker 3: can push back on this and just insist on having

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Speaker 3: a sort of society that's based on truth.

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Speaker 2: Well, when you've got a government that was elected entirely

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Speaker 2: because of the monstrosity that preceded it, when you've got

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Speaker 2: a government like that that still is pushing net zero

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Speaker 2: and is signing up to the Who's new amendments, when

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Speaker 2: there is plenty of evidence as you've as you've pointed

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Speaker 2: out numerous times, and you're not alone and again today

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Speaker 2: that you've got to ask yourself the question, are these

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Speaker 2: people or fools? And while while I'm on the subject,

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Speaker 2: from a local media minor media outlet, WHO News, doctor

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Speaker 2: Ashley Bloomfield spearheads the health regulations overhaul. This goes back

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Speaker 2: to November of twenty three. Ashley Broomfield co chairs the

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Speaker 2: WHO group revising International Health Protocols. Proposed revisions are aimed

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Speaker 2: at strengthening international health regulations post COVID one Health Initiative

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Speaker 2: aims to integrate health policy with climate action. I mean

428
00:28:51,613 --> 00:28:56,693
Speaker 2: that you are concerns arise over national sovereignty versus who's

429
00:28:56,733 --> 00:29:01,133
Speaker 2: expanded role. But what is the reality and how real

430
00:29:01,293 --> 00:29:05,693
Speaker 2: is the threat digital health certificates will curtail travel and

431
00:29:05,893 --> 00:29:10,933
Speaker 2: personal freedoms? Why is it that more people in positions

432
00:29:11,053 --> 00:29:16,333
Speaker 2: of influence like the media no longer or appear to

433
00:29:16,413 --> 00:29:18,813
Speaker 2: be interested in tracking down the trees.

434
00:29:19,573 --> 00:29:25,213
Speaker 3: Yeah, first, that's the head of the CDC with Robert Redfield. Apologies,

435
00:29:26,733 --> 00:29:31,693
Speaker 3: you can see why I got confused. I can the

436
00:29:31,813 --> 00:29:35,173
Speaker 3: media are not interested. So in the US, for instance,

437
00:29:35,653 --> 00:29:39,973
Speaker 3: the media are that they're by far their largest sponsor

438
00:29:40,693 --> 00:29:45,933
Speaker 3: in advertising and in direct sponsorship of commentators, many of

439
00:29:46,013 --> 00:29:48,573
Speaker 3: whom are a majority paid by the script are paid

440
00:29:48,613 --> 00:29:54,453
Speaker 3: by Farmer. So the pharmaceutical industry is hugely influential and

441
00:29:54,533 --> 00:29:58,533
Speaker 3: probably without a lot of these media organizations will close down.

442
00:29:59,853 --> 00:30:02,333
Speaker 3: So to them, they sort of haven't got a choice

443
00:30:02,333 --> 00:30:05,613
Speaker 3: if they want to exist the sort of legacy media,

444
00:30:06,333 --> 00:30:09,133
Speaker 3: then they have to bow to farmer and they're not

445
00:30:09,253 --> 00:30:12,613
Speaker 3: going to get money from farmer if they don't toe

446
00:30:12,693 --> 00:30:16,573
Speaker 3: the line, and if they're openly critical and so damage

447
00:30:16,613 --> 00:30:21,733
Speaker 3: farmer profits. It's just it's not complicated, is sort of obvious.

448
00:30:22,693 --> 00:30:25,733
Speaker 3: Business is a business, and a lot of the commentators

449
00:30:25,813 --> 00:30:29,333
Speaker 3: that are well known on US media, a large part

450
00:30:29,373 --> 00:30:32,813
Speaker 3: of their salaries comes directly from farmer. So there are

451
00:30:33,253 --> 00:30:36,813
Speaker 3: significant ones like Amerson Cooper, who you know it is

452
00:30:36,933 --> 00:30:40,653
Speaker 3: set up to eighty ninety percent in several million a

453
00:30:40,813 --> 00:30:46,573
Speaker 3: year are paid by companies like Pfizer, and this is

454
00:30:47,293 --> 00:30:53,693
Speaker 3: public records. They also pay very significantly to the campaign

455
00:30:53,773 --> 00:30:58,493
Speaker 3: funds of politicians, et cetera. So we have to accept

456
00:30:58,573 --> 00:31:01,253
Speaker 3: that this is sort of what you would expect in

457
00:31:01,853 --> 00:31:03,253
Speaker 3: the sort of society.

458
00:31:02,893 --> 00:31:05,813
Speaker 2: That we've now built, but accept if we accept that,

459
00:31:06,173 --> 00:31:09,933
Speaker 2: if we accept that, then we don't have a future

460
00:31:10,373 --> 00:31:12,413
Speaker 2: as individuals, as.

461
00:31:13,893 --> 00:31:19,133
Speaker 3: Society. Yeah, I mean, you know, if you allow pharmaceutical

462
00:31:19,253 --> 00:31:23,693
Speaker 3: companies freedom from liability for a large part of their

463
00:31:23,693 --> 00:31:28,013
Speaker 3: product portfolio, as is the case with vaccines for certainly

464
00:31:28,093 --> 00:31:32,413
Speaker 3: vaccines for children, then the past history of the pharmaceutical

465
00:31:32,493 --> 00:31:36,093
Speaker 3: industry is the largest proven for all cases on Earth.

466
00:31:38,413 --> 00:31:41,493
Speaker 3: So you would expect those companies, if you give them

467
00:31:41,533 --> 00:31:46,013
Speaker 3: freedom for liability, to push the limits, etc. And commit

468
00:31:46,093 --> 00:31:49,653
Speaker 3: fraud again because their role, as they see it, is

469
00:31:49,693 --> 00:31:53,293
Speaker 3: to make as much money as possible. If you allow

470
00:31:53,413 --> 00:31:56,853
Speaker 3: the regulartory agencies to get to most of their money

471
00:31:57,653 --> 00:32:00,693
Speaker 3: from the pharmaceutical industry that is supposed to be regulating

472
00:32:01,733 --> 00:32:05,733
Speaker 3: and direct money from pharmaceutical investors, private individuals as we

473
00:32:05,893 --> 00:32:12,053
Speaker 3: are in the US, the UK, Australia, et cetera, then

474
00:32:13,093 --> 00:32:16,413
Speaker 3: again you would expect over a few years a decade

475
00:32:16,533 --> 00:32:19,173
Speaker 3: or so, that there will be a very close relationship

476
00:32:19,333 --> 00:32:23,653
Speaker 3: and you will start having people working in those regular

477
00:32:23,653 --> 00:32:28,013
Speaker 3: tre agencies doing favors for the pharmaceutical industry because they

478
00:32:28,013 --> 00:32:31,213
Speaker 3: will pay far more in a couple of years time

479
00:32:31,293 --> 00:32:36,693
Speaker 3: in a new job. So it's you know, we have

480
00:32:36,893 --> 00:32:41,773
Speaker 3: to face this and realize the sort of structures that

481
00:32:41,853 --> 00:32:44,533
Speaker 3: we've built and then fix those structures so that they're

482
00:32:44,613 --> 00:32:48,173
Speaker 3: not so open to abuse. Australia used to have a

483
00:32:48,293 --> 00:32:50,573
Speaker 3: law when I was a kid growing up there that

484
00:32:51,053 --> 00:32:53,973
Speaker 3: no one could own. It was something like more than

485
00:32:54,053 --> 00:32:57,293
Speaker 3: two newspapers or one TV station, that sort of thing,

486
00:32:58,093 --> 00:33:00,173
Speaker 3: and then they poured it all down I think in

487
00:33:00,253 --> 00:33:04,013
Speaker 3: the nineteen eighties, and now you can sort of own

488
00:33:04,053 --> 00:33:08,493
Speaker 3: what you like, and of course that is going to

489
00:33:08,693 --> 00:33:13,253
Speaker 3: bring more concentration and media, and of course that makes

490
00:33:13,293 --> 00:33:18,453
Speaker 3: it much more open for private for huge multinational corporations

491
00:33:18,493 --> 00:33:21,333
Speaker 3: with more money than austraateity has got to own, influence,

492
00:33:21,533 --> 00:33:25,373
Speaker 3: own the country. What we hear. Yes, So none of

493
00:33:25,453 --> 00:33:28,453
Speaker 3: this is surprising, and COVID is a symptom of this.

494
00:33:29,213 --> 00:33:32,973
Speaker 3: We were massively missled by the media. And you can

495
00:33:33,173 --> 00:33:35,693
Speaker 3: argue about why the ABC gets on board because they're

496
00:33:35,693 --> 00:33:40,253
Speaker 3: supposedly not so subject to sponsorship, but they seem to

497
00:33:40,333 --> 00:33:44,333
Speaker 3: want to fit in. But this is what you'd expect.

498
00:33:44,373 --> 00:33:48,173
Speaker 3: You to expect the medical journals to favor the pharmaceutical

499
00:33:48,253 --> 00:33:50,493
Speaker 3: industry because a lot of their money comes from there.

500
00:33:50,773 --> 00:33:55,933
Speaker 3: They are for profit businesses owned by larger publishing houses

501
00:33:56,013 --> 00:34:01,653
Speaker 3: that are owned by Blackrock and Vanguard. So again it's

502
00:34:01,733 --> 00:34:06,373
Speaker 3: not surprising, it's just logical the journal industry. Medical journals

503
00:34:06,493 --> 00:34:11,213
Speaker 3: will print, obviously rubbish on the origins of COVID, and

504
00:34:12,373 --> 00:34:17,973
Speaker 3: they'll print stuff, you know, the denigrating alternative treatments. We're

505
00:34:18,013 --> 00:34:22,093
Speaker 3: familiar with that obviously, fraudulent, but this happened during COVID,

506
00:34:23,053 --> 00:34:26,653
Speaker 3: and you know, you can show later they're fraudulent, but

507
00:34:26,813 --> 00:34:29,533
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter because everyone doesn't. No one remembers that.

508
00:34:29,573 --> 00:34:33,173
Speaker 3: They just remember the original article. So they were actively

509
00:34:33,253 --> 00:34:36,493
Speaker 3: playing a role of helping the pharmaceutical industry and the

510
00:34:36,853 --> 00:34:39,813
Speaker 3: institution to own that, which are the same institutions that

511
00:34:39,893 --> 00:34:44,013
Speaker 3: own them. So again, you know, we've got away from

512
00:34:44,173 --> 00:34:48,413
Speaker 3: nation states and where we have this globalist economy and

513
00:34:49,573 --> 00:34:51,493
Speaker 3: this is the sort of thing it's going to drive.

514
00:34:52,093 --> 00:34:56,133
Speaker 2: Well, let me quote you something from from the piece

515
00:34:56,213 --> 00:35:00,613
Speaker 2: that we started discussing an update on international Health regulation

516
00:35:00,693 --> 00:35:04,013
Speaker 2: amendments and not to be down. The World Bank teamed

517
00:35:04,093 --> 00:35:07,693
Speaker 2: up with the WHO to provide an explanatory graphic in

518
00:35:07,853 --> 00:35:12,133
Speaker 2: the few report aimed at convincing our governments to divert

519
00:35:12,253 --> 00:35:17,173
Speaker 2: funds to pandemics rather than the major endemic diseases malaria, tuberculosis,

520
00:35:17,253 --> 00:35:21,373
Speaker 2: and HIV AIDS. To justify public money being allocated to

521
00:35:21,773 --> 00:35:28,973
Speaker 2: profitable pandemic preparedness rather than high burden diseases, they needed

522
00:35:29,053 --> 00:35:32,613
Speaker 2: to show that pandemics cost economies far more. They drew

523
00:35:32,653 --> 00:35:36,813
Speaker 2: a line for malaria, tuberculosis and HIV AIDS combined with

524
00:35:38,493 --> 00:35:42,893
Speaker 2: combined at twenty two billion dollars per year, probably about

525
00:35:42,933 --> 00:35:45,613
Speaker 2: one or two percent of the true cost. They then

526
00:35:46,493 --> 00:35:50,133
Speaker 2: drew a wavy line above this to indicate that SAS

527
00:35:50,133 --> 00:35:53,533
Speaker 2: won eight hundred and forty deaths and MERS about eight

528
00:35:53,653 --> 00:35:59,653
Speaker 2: hundred deaths, cost fifty to seventy billion. COVID has costed

529
00:35:59,693 --> 00:36:03,213
Speaker 2: it over nine trillion, which clearly includes costs of lockdowns

530
00:36:03,253 --> 00:36:09,693
Speaker 2: and incentive packages from extraordinary response. A Lancer article that

531
00:36:09,813 --> 00:36:14,453
Speaker 2: the WHO would have previously agreed with estimated annual economic

532
00:36:14,573 --> 00:36:17,893
Speaker 2: costs of tuberculosis alone at five hundred and eight billion,

533
00:36:18,373 --> 00:36:22,133
Speaker 2: but the WHO and the World Bank chose twenty two

534
00:36:22,293 --> 00:36:27,573
Speaker 2: billion for TB malaria at HIV. So there is another

535
00:36:28,373 --> 00:36:30,973
Speaker 2: piece that I want to stack up against this, and

536
00:36:31,093 --> 00:36:36,333
Speaker 2: that was that was to do with the WHO not

537
00:36:36,573 --> 00:36:42,093
Speaker 2: being survivable, that it's an outdated, an outdated organization and

538
00:36:42,933 --> 00:36:43,773
Speaker 2: it can't survive.

539
00:36:44,253 --> 00:36:48,093
Speaker 3: You say, yeah, well, it's hard to come back from

540
00:36:48,173 --> 00:36:50,213
Speaker 3: that graphic, isn't it. I mean, what they're doing and

541
00:36:50,293 --> 00:36:53,013
Speaker 3: this is that graphic was World Bank, who is in

542
00:36:53,133 --> 00:36:57,373
Speaker 3: their main report to the G twenty meeting in Indonesia

543
00:36:57,453 --> 00:37:01,813
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, to count the G twenty successfully to

544
00:37:02,853 --> 00:37:08,613
Speaker 3: issue strong statements backing the IHR amendments. The pandemic human

545
00:37:10,893 --> 00:37:14,533
Speaker 3: it yeah is I mean, you look at it and

546
00:37:14,733 --> 00:37:21,493
Speaker 3: it's just it's appalling. So the cost of HIV. So

547
00:37:21,773 --> 00:37:24,853
Speaker 3: they're trying to get across the idea that pandemics cost way,

548
00:37:24,893 --> 00:37:30,853
Speaker 3: way more than all these other diseases. But they can

549
00:37:30,933 --> 00:37:35,213
Speaker 3: only apart from COVID, have got diseases there they killed

550
00:37:35,253 --> 00:37:42,733
Speaker 3: less than twenty thousand people in total, and the cost

551
00:37:42,853 --> 00:37:46,613
Speaker 3: of comparing them, they're comparing them with malaria to ber

552
00:37:46,653 --> 00:37:49,693
Speaker 3: closer HIV. As you said, the true cost of those

553
00:37:49,813 --> 00:37:54,173
Speaker 3: is probably about based on that lanced article that five

554
00:37:54,293 --> 00:37:59,333
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty billion four to be alone. It's probably

555
00:37:59,453 --> 00:38:02,693
Speaker 3: with HIV and malaria. It depends how your costs is,

556
00:38:02,733 --> 00:38:05,013
Speaker 3: but you could say one and a half trillion or

557
00:38:05,053 --> 00:38:10,493
Speaker 3: something like that. And that's that's without the sort of

558
00:38:10,613 --> 00:38:14,893
Speaker 3: response which we did for COVID, which is extremely cost

559
00:38:15,093 --> 00:38:17,533
Speaker 3: This is just the cost of people dying and trying

560
00:38:17,573 --> 00:38:22,533
Speaker 3: to deal with it. The costs that they include for

561
00:38:22,693 --> 00:38:27,733
Speaker 3: COVID to get to nine trillion include several trillion in

562
00:38:27,893 --> 00:38:32,773
Speaker 3: incentive packages in the US and the cost of closing

563
00:38:32,853 --> 00:38:36,693
Speaker 3: down economies and closing supply lines and sending everyone home

564
00:38:36,733 --> 00:38:40,773
Speaker 3: from factories, and they're pretending that's COVID cost of pandemic cost.

565
00:38:41,933 --> 00:38:46,493
Speaker 3: So it's the organization, this is a world health organization.

566
00:38:46,933 --> 00:38:51,693
Speaker 3: They know that this is massively misleading and essentially rubbish,

567
00:38:52,053 --> 00:38:56,493
Speaker 3: and that certainly the costing of the endemic diseases they're

568
00:38:56,493 --> 00:39:00,253
Speaker 3: comparing outbreaks with is essentially a lie. So they know

569
00:39:00,453 --> 00:39:03,213
Speaker 3: this and they still publish it, and they send it

570
00:39:03,453 --> 00:39:06,093
Speaker 3: to the g twenty meeting, where well the heads of

571
00:39:06,173 --> 00:39:11,133
Speaker 3: state or there hangers on look at it and put

572
00:39:11,173 --> 00:39:13,373
Speaker 3: out a statement saying, this is terrible. We have to

573
00:39:13,453 --> 00:39:16,173
Speaker 3: fix this. We need to get lots of money for them.

574
00:39:17,373 --> 00:39:23,293
Speaker 3: So an organization that's gone that far off the rails

575
00:39:25,373 --> 00:39:31,613
Speaker 3: in terms of even bothering with the truth, it's hard

576
00:39:31,693 --> 00:39:35,493
Speaker 3: to see how you can actually use them for anything

577
00:39:36,653 --> 00:39:40,533
Speaker 3: that's beneficial in terms of, you know, the world's population,

578
00:39:43,613 --> 00:39:51,293
Speaker 3: the who has become increasingly centralized around Geneva, so you know,

579
00:39:51,373 --> 00:39:53,853
Speaker 3: the main health problems in the world is everyone would

580
00:39:53,893 --> 00:39:57,933
Speaker 3: know where people die earliest is in sub Saharan Africa,

581
00:39:58,053 --> 00:40:01,053
Speaker 3: parts of Asia, et cetera, where people are poor and

582
00:40:01,173 --> 00:40:04,853
Speaker 3: as a result, health systems are very poor and sanitation

583
00:40:05,053 --> 00:40:08,213
Speaker 3: is poor and nutrition is poor, and people live in

584
00:40:08,413 --> 00:40:12,733
Speaker 3: very crowded, poor living conditions, and that's why people dying.

585
00:40:12,813 --> 00:40:15,613
Speaker 3: They lack the very basics that we expect to have

586
00:40:15,773 --> 00:40:19,413
Speaker 3: when we go to the local clinic. So that's why

587
00:40:19,533 --> 00:40:22,693
Speaker 3: people are dying. But Who's whole thrust now is to

588
00:40:22,893 --> 00:40:25,573
Speaker 3: increase the number of people in Geneva, and that's what

589
00:40:25,733 --> 00:40:28,373
Speaker 3: GAVI is doing, that's what the Global Fund is doing.

590
00:40:28,493 --> 00:40:31,293
Speaker 3: Which over the last twenty years we've had this huge

591
00:40:31,333 --> 00:40:37,573
Speaker 3: increase in bureaucracies and whole new organizations arising or mostly

592
00:40:37,653 --> 00:40:42,773
Speaker 3: in Switzerland or in Western Europe and heavily staffed by

593
00:40:44,133 --> 00:40:48,933
Speaker 3: Europeans and Americans, and there's less and less emphasis on

594
00:40:49,693 --> 00:40:53,853
Speaker 3: the actual health problems, what's making a lot of people

595
00:40:53,893 --> 00:40:57,293
Speaker 3: in the world die much earlier than others. So, you know,

596
00:40:57,693 --> 00:41:00,773
Speaker 3: equity as they like to say, but seem to ignore.

597
00:41:01,493 --> 00:41:06,133
Speaker 3: So the whole direction of the organization is completely wrong

598
00:41:06,213 --> 00:41:09,213
Speaker 3: from a public health point of view. Public health is

599
00:41:09,253 --> 00:41:16,413
Speaker 3: about improving lifespan, improving the quality of life through better physical, mental,

600
00:41:16,773 --> 00:41:20,413
Speaker 3: and social health, as the Who's Constitution.

601
00:41:20,053 --> 00:41:25,613
Speaker 2: Says, So you're talking about the who.

602
00:41:25,253 --> 00:41:31,293
Speaker 3: When or the who. But also if you go back

603
00:41:31,413 --> 00:41:34,973
Speaker 3: twenty five years, thirty years, it's just the WHO essentially

604
00:41:35,013 --> 00:41:39,493
Speaker 3: in a bit of UNISEF. Now it's WHO, UNSEF, un AIDS,

605
00:41:40,213 --> 00:41:46,893
Speaker 3: GAVY for Vaccines, SEPI for vaccines, for pandemics exclusively, and

606
00:41:47,853 --> 00:41:52,173
Speaker 3: UNITID more commodities, the Global Fund, which is a huge funder.

607
00:41:52,333 --> 00:41:55,133
Speaker 3: I mean at these it's there to send money and

608
00:41:55,293 --> 00:41:58,213
Speaker 3: not so min stuff in other things. But it has

609
00:41:58,333 --> 00:42:00,853
Speaker 3: got a huge you know, it's now got over one

610
00:42:00,853 --> 00:42:03,773
Speaker 3: thousand people in its head office and when I first

611
00:42:03,893 --> 00:42:08,213
Speaker 3: visited it had twelve. But in two thousand and two

612
00:42:08,813 --> 00:42:12,493
Speaker 3: and they told me in that little office basement of

613
00:42:12,573 --> 00:42:15,733
Speaker 3: a building that they weren't going to expand anymore. So

614
00:42:16,453 --> 00:42:21,893
Speaker 3: we've created this sort of bureaucratic monster that is expanding

615
00:42:21,933 --> 00:42:24,373
Speaker 3: itself because you can always think of more reasons to

616
00:42:24,453 --> 00:42:27,973
Speaker 3: have more people in Geneva to do more important work

617
00:42:28,213 --> 00:42:32,533
Speaker 3: to save the world. And what's actually killing the world,

618
00:42:32,653 --> 00:42:38,333
Speaker 3: which is tuberculosis and poor nutrition and malaria and the

619
00:42:38,653 --> 00:42:41,493
Speaker 3: lack of basic care in a lot of countries and

620
00:42:42,333 --> 00:42:45,973
Speaker 3: very poor health systems due to poor economies. That's being

621
00:42:46,133 --> 00:42:48,813
Speaker 3: increasingly neglected by these organizations.

622
00:42:49,493 --> 00:42:53,693
Speaker 2: So the article that you wrote along with some Ramesh,

623
00:42:54,213 --> 00:42:58,733
Speaker 2: the WHO cannot be saved last paragraph. The Trump administration's

624
00:42:58,773 --> 00:43:02,853
Speaker 2: actions are an opportunity to rebase international health cooperation on

625
00:43:03,173 --> 00:43:08,853
Speaker 2: widely recognized standards of ethics and human rights if we

626
00:43:08,893 --> 00:43:12,813
Speaker 2: can even remember them. Countries and populations should be back

627
00:43:12,893 --> 00:43:16,733
Speaker 2: in control, and those seeking profit from illness should have

628
00:43:17,133 --> 00:43:20,533
Speaker 2: no role in decision making. The WHO, at nearly eighty

629
00:43:20,653 --> 00:43:24,333
Speaker 2: years of age, comes from a bygone era. It is

630
00:43:24,453 --> 00:43:28,973
Speaker 2: increasingly estranged from its world. We can do better fundamental

631
00:43:29,093 --> 00:43:32,613
Speaker 2: change and the way we manage international health cooperation will

632
00:43:32,653 --> 00:43:39,333
Speaker 2: be painful but ultimately healthy. But the WHO, when you

633
00:43:39,453 --> 00:43:42,773
Speaker 2: say that it cannot be saved, it's surviving, isn't it.

634
00:43:43,453 --> 00:43:48,653
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I would say it's extremely highly unlikely to

635
00:43:48,773 --> 00:43:51,253
Speaker 3: be savable. You can never say cannot. We know we

636
00:43:51,373 --> 00:43:54,093
Speaker 3: did for the article, but we're trying to get across

637
00:43:54,133 --> 00:43:57,733
Speaker 3: it can't be safe in its present form. It's built

638
00:43:57,853 --> 00:44:01,453
Speaker 3: on increasingly on as us of falla season lies, and

639
00:44:01,653 --> 00:44:09,373
Speaker 3: it's increasingly beholden to the private sector, and eventually it's

640
00:44:09,453 --> 00:44:12,853
Speaker 3: not going to be viable anymore. It's going to lose

641
00:44:13,053 --> 00:44:16,973
Speaker 3: its legitimacy completely. There is a place for an international

642
00:44:17,653 --> 00:44:21,413
Speaker 3: health organization. It's useful to have somewhere where you can

643
00:44:21,453 --> 00:44:24,133
Speaker 3: go and meet, where you can have some basic norms

644
00:44:24,253 --> 00:44:26,693
Speaker 3: or standards that you will try to adhere to to

645
00:44:26,813 --> 00:44:31,133
Speaker 3: help each other. And it's useful to have organizations that

646
00:44:31,933 --> 00:44:36,013
Speaker 3: help countries that have less resources and you do have

647
00:44:36,133 --> 00:44:40,373
Speaker 3: outbreaks or have bad chronic disease, and it's in our

648
00:44:40,493 --> 00:44:43,693
Speaker 3: mutual interest to do that. That can be bilateral, or

649
00:44:43,733 --> 00:44:47,973
Speaker 3: it can be a multilateral like the WHO, but there

650
00:44:48,053 --> 00:44:50,773
Speaker 3: has to be a lot of limits on the way

651
00:44:50,813 --> 00:44:54,813
Speaker 3: it works. And I think people thought that WHO had

652
00:44:54,853 --> 00:44:59,533
Speaker 3: them originally it had very little private funding, the sort

653
00:44:59,573 --> 00:45:01,973
Speaker 3: of firewall between it and the private sector, et cetera.

654
00:45:02,093 --> 00:45:05,453
Speaker 3: Most of that has gone away, so remission. I think

655
00:45:05,493 --> 00:45:08,813
Speaker 3: that there is definitely a place for an interest or

656
00:45:08,853 --> 00:45:16,053
Speaker 3: health organization, but the WHO is increasingly going off in

657
00:45:16,173 --> 00:45:20,053
Speaker 3: the opposite direction from what an interestal health organization should be.

658
00:45:21,693 --> 00:45:25,093
Speaker 2: You've mentioned GABBY a couple of times, and I have

659
00:45:25,453 --> 00:45:28,173
Speaker 2: a feeling that most people don't know what GABBY is

660
00:45:28,493 --> 00:45:32,773
Speaker 2: or anything about it. And I say that because until

661
00:45:33,133 --> 00:45:36,813
Speaker 2: I read your material, I was in that position. So

662
00:45:37,373 --> 00:45:41,573
Speaker 2: defunding Gabby an important step toward the decolonization, and the

663
00:45:41,653 --> 00:45:46,373
Speaker 2: first subheaving is our age old argument with pathogens, take

664
00:45:46,413 --> 00:45:47,253
Speaker 2: it wherever you want to go.

665
00:45:48,053 --> 00:45:52,773
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, So GAV is an organization, a large one

666
00:45:52,853 --> 00:45:55,933
Speaker 3: now set up by Bill Gates and a number of

667
00:45:56,013 --> 00:46:01,373
Speaker 3: countries in about two thousand and one exclusively to increase

668
00:46:01,453 --> 00:46:05,533
Speaker 3: access to vaccination in low income countries. That on his zone,

669
00:46:05,573 --> 00:46:08,653
Speaker 3: could be a good thing. Some vaccines can be very

670
00:46:08,773 --> 00:46:12,813
Speaker 3: useful in a lot of circumstances. The problem when you

671
00:46:12,933 --> 00:46:16,053
Speaker 3: go down that road is that you produce an organization,

672
00:46:16,573 --> 00:46:21,413
Speaker 3: highly funded, with a large bureaucracy, whose sole purpose is

673
00:46:21,573 --> 00:46:26,533
Speaker 3: not to improve public health and improve give people the

674
00:46:26,653 --> 00:46:31,173
Speaker 3: best health possible in their circumstances. The whole purpose of

675
00:46:31,253 --> 00:46:36,493
Speaker 3: this organization is to increase the flow of commodity, and

676
00:46:36,613 --> 00:46:39,973
Speaker 3: they work very closely and they're structured with the private sector.

677
00:46:40,013 --> 00:46:44,053
Speaker 3: The people who produce those commodities actually on its boort,

678
00:46:45,173 --> 00:46:48,133
Speaker 3: so it has a very close relationship with the manufacturers.

679
00:46:48,213 --> 00:46:52,133
Speaker 3: So rather than GAVY being about public health, it's not.

680
00:46:52,453 --> 00:46:57,773
Speaker 3: It's about working with vaccine manufacturers to increase markets for vaccines.

681
00:46:57,853 --> 00:47:00,693
Speaker 3: That's the role of GAVY. There can be a good

682
00:47:00,733 --> 00:47:03,493
Speaker 3: aspect to that, but the problem is that, as I

683
00:47:03,573 --> 00:47:07,333
Speaker 3: said earlier, the reason, and this is undeniable, This isn't controversial.

684
00:47:07,733 --> 00:47:10,733
Speaker 3: The reason we lived much longer in wealthy countries now

685
00:47:11,013 --> 00:47:12,773
Speaker 3: than we did one hundred hundred and fifty years ago

686
00:47:14,253 --> 00:47:20,133
Speaker 3: is because we have this much better sanitation, nutrition, et cetera.

687
00:47:20,933 --> 00:47:26,373
Speaker 3: Nearly all mortality from measles, from even potassis and so on.

688
00:47:27,053 --> 00:47:30,973
Speaker 3: Tennus we're going away before we had mass vaccination, or

689
00:47:31,013 --> 00:47:34,653
Speaker 3: they're on a trajectory that continued unchanged when vaccination started.

690
00:47:34,693 --> 00:47:37,373
Speaker 3: In the case of measles in most western countries, about

691
00:47:37,693 --> 00:47:40,613
Speaker 3: ninety five to ninety eight percent mortality had gone away

692
00:47:41,693 --> 00:47:46,413
Speaker 3: before the vaccine. Mass vaccination came. So mass vaccination helped

693
00:47:46,453 --> 00:47:48,493
Speaker 3: get rid of the virus, but did very little to

694
00:47:48,613 --> 00:47:51,973
Speaker 3: overall mortality because people would already stop dying from measles

695
00:47:52,453 --> 00:47:55,733
Speaker 3: because they weren't as vita an a deficient and as

696
00:47:55,773 --> 00:47:58,173
Speaker 3: deficient in other things which our bodies need to fight

697
00:47:58,213 --> 00:48:02,253
Speaker 3: a virus. So this isn't controversial. It's not pro or

698
00:48:02,293 --> 00:48:05,693
Speaker 3: anti vaxi. Is just the facts that I was taught

699
00:48:05,693 --> 00:48:09,693
Speaker 3: in medical school, and that is in is demonstrated in

700
00:48:09,813 --> 00:48:13,613
Speaker 3: the data from the Australian government, the UK government, the

701
00:48:13,693 --> 00:48:17,533
Speaker 3: American government, et cetera. The best way it would seem

702
00:48:17,773 --> 00:48:20,693
Speaker 3: to improve mortality, and there's very good efferences for this

703
00:48:20,773 --> 00:48:23,693
Speaker 3: as well in low income countries. Is to address these

704
00:48:24,493 --> 00:48:30,013
Speaker 3: drivers of good health first, sanitation, nutrition, et cetera. And

705
00:48:30,173 --> 00:48:33,373
Speaker 3: then you can say, oh, there's a specific problem because

706
00:48:33,413 --> 00:48:38,573
Speaker 3: a vaccine kill it helps with a specific disease it doesn't.

707
00:48:38,813 --> 00:48:42,493
Speaker 3: So you can stop someone dying of measles, and they

708
00:48:42,613 --> 00:48:46,613
Speaker 3: die of malaria in six months time because they're in

709
00:48:46,733 --> 00:48:50,333
Speaker 3: an area with a very poor health system, they're poorly

710
00:48:50,493 --> 00:48:55,373
Speaker 3: nourished and they're in very crowdic conditions, et cetera. Or

711
00:48:55,413 --> 00:48:58,693
Speaker 3: they can die of pneumonia or whatever. So the vaccine

712
00:48:58,733 --> 00:49:00,573
Speaker 3: will save them from measles, and you can tick the

713
00:49:00,613 --> 00:49:03,893
Speaker 3: box on that, but they've died six months later because

714
00:49:04,773 --> 00:49:09,093
Speaker 3: of all the other underlying conditions that they had that

715
00:49:09,253 --> 00:49:13,773
Speaker 3: made them much more susceptible to infectious disease. So you

716
00:49:14,533 --> 00:49:19,413
Speaker 3: can fix that by concentrating on nutrition, concentrating on sanitation.

717
00:49:20,013 --> 00:49:23,613
Speaker 3: So that would save more people probably than GAVY is

718
00:49:23,653 --> 00:49:26,653
Speaker 3: saving with vaccines, and there's a good basis for saying that.

719
00:49:28,053 --> 00:49:31,373
Speaker 3: But there is no GAVY for nutrition, there is no

720
00:49:31,533 --> 00:49:36,613
Speaker 3: GAVY for sanitation, and there is no private sector that's

721
00:49:36,653 --> 00:49:39,693
Speaker 3: going to get rich off those. So there's a huge

722
00:49:40,053 --> 00:49:43,213
Speaker 3: momentum behind GAVI that is selling a commodity that people

723
00:49:43,213 --> 00:49:47,413
Speaker 3: are getting rich on. We have reduced funding for nutrition

724
00:49:47,773 --> 00:49:52,853
Speaker 3: globally over the last five years, so we will sell

725
00:49:52,933 --> 00:49:56,173
Speaker 3: more vaccines, We'll get more vaccines out through GAVY, but

726
00:49:56,693 --> 00:50:00,733
Speaker 3: that is not going to have anywhere near as big

727
00:50:00,813 --> 00:50:05,133
Speaker 3: an influence on outcomes on health. So we have the

728
00:50:05,213 --> 00:50:08,293
Speaker 3: same problem with some of the SEPPI. As a class

729
00:50:08,613 --> 00:50:11,733
Speaker 3: example which is seven twenty seventeen at the World Economic

730
00:50:11,813 --> 00:50:19,773
Speaker 3: Forum by again Gates Foundation, Welcome Trust and India, Norway,

731
00:50:19,893 --> 00:50:24,373
Speaker 3: couple of other countries. It is exclusively for pandemics, which

732
00:50:24,773 --> 00:50:28,493
Speaker 3: when it was formed hadn't really happened for a century,

733
00:50:29,453 --> 00:50:33,853
Speaker 3: and it's almost exclusively for vaccines for those pandemics. So

734
00:50:34,053 --> 00:50:38,493
Speaker 3: you have hundreds of people whose sole purpose is to

735
00:50:38,653 --> 00:50:45,133
Speaker 3: produce vaccines for pandemics and to convince people that that

736
00:50:45,253 --> 00:50:49,973
Speaker 3: should be funded more. They're not interested in malaria, TBHIV.

737
00:50:50,133 --> 00:50:53,053
Speaker 3: They would draw graphs like we saw from who the

738
00:50:53,173 --> 00:50:57,573
Speaker 3: show that those diseases have very little impact, but there's

739
00:50:57,613 --> 00:51:02,413
Speaker 3: an enormous impact from outbreaks because this is what will

740
00:51:02,453 --> 00:51:05,893
Speaker 3: get them funded and keep their salaries and keep their

741
00:51:06,733 --> 00:51:10,773
Speaker 3: sponsors happy. So we've built in international public health this

742
00:51:11,733 --> 00:51:17,493
Speaker 3: series of agencies that we didn't have before whose sole

743
00:51:17,613 --> 00:51:23,013
Speaker 3: purpose is getting commodities out that are profitable to large corporations.

744
00:51:24,333 --> 00:51:27,253
Speaker 3: There's nothing wrong with making a profit from health, but

745
00:51:27,493 --> 00:51:30,933
Speaker 3: it has to be in a way that is in

746
00:51:31,133 --> 00:51:34,493
Speaker 3: line with overall health needs. It can't be an end

747
00:51:34,733 --> 00:51:37,013
Speaker 3: unto itself. And if you have an agency that's just

748
00:51:37,693 --> 00:51:41,173
Speaker 3: concentrated on getting commodities out, it becomes an end to itself.

749
00:51:41,253 --> 00:51:43,573
Speaker 3: So you want to get vaccines out, and you can

750
00:51:43,653 --> 00:51:48,053
Speaker 3: tick the box saying we got one hundred million doses

751
00:51:48,093 --> 00:51:51,813
Speaker 3: of a measles vaccine out. Therefore you tick the box.

752
00:51:51,933 --> 00:51:55,453
Speaker 3: We saved I don't know, five million lives of children.

753
00:51:56,173 --> 00:51:58,973
Speaker 3: Many of those children died of something else in the

754
00:51:59,093 --> 00:52:02,053
Speaker 3: next year or two, but that doesn't matter. That's that's

755
00:52:02,133 --> 00:52:05,213
Speaker 3: not our problem. That's not our remit. Our remit is

756
00:52:05,293 --> 00:52:09,533
Speaker 3: not public health. Our remit is measles vaccine. So this

757
00:52:09,773 --> 00:52:13,053
Speaker 3: is international public health now, who is twenty five percent

758
00:52:13,133 --> 00:52:16,413
Speaker 3: funded now by the private sector, and most of the

759
00:52:16,493 --> 00:52:21,773
Speaker 3: other funding comes from countries with large pharmaceutical industries, and

760
00:52:23,013 --> 00:52:26,213
Speaker 3: all the private funding in the seventy eighty percent of

761
00:52:26,293 --> 00:52:30,293
Speaker 3: the public funding is specified which means who has to

762
00:52:30,413 --> 00:52:33,093
Speaker 3: do what the funder says. They're not just given the

763
00:52:33,093 --> 00:52:35,653
Speaker 3: money to WHO. They're give them money WHO to do

764
00:52:36,013 --> 00:52:42,173
Speaker 3: a certain thing, particularly around health emergencies. So the WHO

765
00:52:42,333 --> 00:52:48,213
Speaker 3: itself is becoming like GAVI, like SEPI. It's becoming oriented

766
00:52:48,293 --> 00:52:52,293
Speaker 3: towards the commodities that its sponsors are very interested in,

767
00:52:52,573 --> 00:52:55,493
Speaker 3: rather than being able to step back and have a

768
00:52:55,573 --> 00:53:00,933
Speaker 3: look at public health. And so what ramession I pointing

769
00:53:00,973 --> 00:53:03,613
Speaker 3: out is that we need a very different agency with

770
00:53:03,733 --> 00:53:07,333
Speaker 3: very different rules that can actually keep that broader focus

771
00:53:08,453 --> 00:53:10,933
Speaker 3: success that you're having. Do you think there are some

772
00:53:11,173 --> 00:53:15,053
Speaker 3: countries that are concerned that there's a significant concern in

773
00:53:15,133 --> 00:53:19,173
Speaker 3: African countries they don't want to get rid of the

774
00:53:19,413 --> 00:53:23,373
Speaker 3: WHO without a good replacement because there are you know,

775
00:53:23,493 --> 00:53:26,093
Speaker 3: they gain, They do have problems with TV milor and

776
00:53:26,133 --> 00:53:29,493
Speaker 3: they gain from the who's work in a lot of areas.

777
00:53:30,533 --> 00:53:32,693
Speaker 3: It's not doing what they would like, but it is

778
00:53:32,813 --> 00:53:35,133
Speaker 3: better than not having it at all for them. The

779
00:53:36,013 --> 00:53:39,693
Speaker 3: US has, but if they had a good alternative, then

780
00:53:39,933 --> 00:53:42,853
Speaker 3: I think there'll be a lot of interest in going

781
00:53:43,613 --> 00:53:46,613
Speaker 3: to an alternative that isn't just where most of the

782
00:53:46,813 --> 00:53:51,013
Speaker 3: money doesn't go to Western corporation's Western individuals, but actually

783
00:53:51,853 --> 00:53:53,853
Speaker 3: that they are able to use it to improve their

784
00:53:53,893 --> 00:53:57,053
Speaker 3: health systems and improve the underlying drivers of health, because

785
00:53:57,093 --> 00:53:59,053
Speaker 3: then they can improve their economy. So they put to

786
00:53:59,133 --> 00:54:02,653
Speaker 3: their people, et cetera. And all countries are you know,

787
00:54:02,893 --> 00:54:06,973
Speaker 3: there's corruption everywhere, there's governments that are put of self

788
00:54:07,053 --> 00:54:13,053
Speaker 3: interested people everywhere, But in general, I think most countries

789
00:54:13,413 --> 00:54:17,013
Speaker 3: in Africa are interested in improving their economies overall and

790
00:54:17,853 --> 00:54:20,573
Speaker 3: changing the way that the balance in health and in

791
00:54:20,653 --> 00:54:24,573
Speaker 3: other areas between where the money goes between Western corporations

792
00:54:24,653 --> 00:54:28,973
Speaker 3: and themselves. The US has dropped out of who or

793
00:54:29,133 --> 00:54:33,573
Speaker 3: is doing so. Argentina says the same. I think that

794
00:54:33,693 --> 00:54:37,573
Speaker 3: will help because at a minimum, it will open the

795
00:54:37,733 --> 00:54:42,853
Speaker 3: door for alternative approaches. They haven't said what they want

796
00:54:42,973 --> 00:54:48,253
Speaker 3: is an alternative. The US was particularly concerned that they

797
00:54:48,293 --> 00:54:50,853
Speaker 3: were giving too much money to who and China wasn't

798
00:54:50,853 --> 00:54:55,173
Speaker 3: giving enough, et cetera. They haven't really articulated the problem

799
00:54:55,293 --> 00:55:00,333
Speaker 3: with the way the money is spent, and that is

800
00:55:00,453 --> 00:55:06,613
Speaker 3: partly because US corporations are benefiting from this. But at

801
00:55:06,733 --> 00:55:10,533
Speaker 3: least take making a step that far, it opens the

802
00:55:10,613 --> 00:55:12,653
Speaker 3: door for them to have a bit more to think

803
00:55:12,733 --> 00:55:15,853
Speaker 3: of you know what would on an alternative international health

804
00:55:15,933 --> 00:55:20,653
Speaker 3: agency look like, and how do you limit its ability

805
00:55:21,933 --> 00:55:26,733
Speaker 3: over to overstep as the who has and defunding GAVY,

806
00:55:26,853 --> 00:55:28,813
Speaker 3: which the US has done, I think is a good thing.

807
00:55:30,213 --> 00:55:33,373
Speaker 3: It won't kill huge numbers of people, as you know,

808
00:55:33,613 --> 00:55:39,413
Speaker 3: people pretending. Firstly, because vaccines play a role, but they're

809
00:55:39,453 --> 00:55:44,653
Speaker 3: not the primary reason how we stop people dying. Secondly,

810
00:55:44,773 --> 00:55:49,533
Speaker 3: because those funds will go in some other way. They don't.

811
00:55:49,613 --> 00:55:53,173
Speaker 3: The money doesn't simply disappear, It goes into other areas

812
00:55:53,253 --> 00:55:56,653
Speaker 3: of the economy or other areas of health thereas, but

813
00:55:56,813 --> 00:56:01,093
Speaker 3: lateral support and other mechanisms that government can use that

814
00:56:01,213 --> 00:56:05,013
Speaker 3: are more palatable to the current US government. So there

815
00:56:05,053 --> 00:56:09,213
Speaker 3: are good alternatives to GAVY that don't concentrate so much

816
00:56:09,333 --> 00:56:13,733
Speaker 3: wealth in Switzerland but actually send it to the countries concerned.

817
00:56:15,333 --> 00:56:19,133
Speaker 3: So the hope is that they will start to open up.

818
00:56:19,933 --> 00:56:22,933
Speaker 2: Let me get into the conspiratorial aspect of things, just

819
00:56:23,213 --> 00:56:27,493
Speaker 2: just briefly. Not necessarily conspiratorial, but you know they can

820
00:56:27,613 --> 00:56:28,613
Speaker 2: be delecated.

821
00:56:28,693 --> 00:56:29,293
Speaker 3: That title.

822
00:56:29,893 --> 00:56:32,413
Speaker 2: How much of all the all the stuff that we

823
00:56:32,573 --> 00:56:37,293
Speaker 2: talk that you talk about, that we read and discuss,

824
00:56:37,893 --> 00:56:43,693
Speaker 2: is leading to a much more controlled environment in pretty

825
00:56:43,733 --> 00:56:46,413
Speaker 2: much all democratic countries are.

826
00:56:46,413 --> 00:56:49,453
Speaker 3: In eating in the way of vaccine passports and that

827
00:56:49,533 --> 00:56:55,093
Speaker 3: sort of Yeah, yeah, it's not conspiratorial, is it. It's real. Yeah,

828
00:56:55,173 --> 00:56:57,733
Speaker 3: they're the EU has work with the WHO on a

829
00:56:57,813 --> 00:57:01,293
Speaker 3: vaccine passport, which they all bring in as soon as

830
00:57:01,333 --> 00:57:04,533
Speaker 3: they can. I expect then they will start to put

831
00:57:04,573 --> 00:57:07,973
Speaker 3: things like flu vaccine, which is no one has shown

832
00:57:07,973 --> 00:57:11,413
Speaker 3: any impact of more on mortality from flu vaccine, but

833
00:57:11,773 --> 00:57:14,293
Speaker 3: they will put it on and it'll be driven by

834
00:57:15,213 --> 00:57:17,293
Speaker 3: they would say public health, but in the end it's

835
00:57:17,333 --> 00:57:19,893
Speaker 3: going to be profit because there's no really good public

836
00:57:19,933 --> 00:57:24,693
Speaker 3: health arguments for this. They had vaccine passports in COVID

837
00:57:24,893 --> 00:57:28,373
Speaker 3: so that you couldn't go if you weren't vaccinated with

838
00:57:28,533 --> 00:57:31,973
Speaker 3: a vaccine that didn't stop transmission at all, and that

839
00:57:32,573 --> 00:57:37,173
Speaker 3: there's evidence of its good associations. For instance, a Cleveland

840
00:57:37,213 --> 00:57:41,453
Speaker 3: clinic has shown a very strong association rapidly of the

841
00:57:41,613 --> 00:57:45,773
Speaker 3: more boosters you've had, the more frequently you get COVID.

842
00:57:46,933 --> 00:57:51,373
Speaker 3: So they insisted you get a vaccine like that to

843
00:57:51,533 --> 00:57:56,693
Speaker 3: go from a country that had endemic sarskov two virus

844
00:57:56,973 --> 00:58:01,253
Speaker 3: to another country that had endemic sarscobe two virus. So

845
00:58:01,773 --> 00:58:07,093
Speaker 3: there's absolutely no logic in this whatsoever. It doesn't matter

846
00:58:07,133 --> 00:58:10,213
Speaker 3: if you travel or stay home. The virus is in

847
00:58:10,333 --> 00:58:15,333
Speaker 3: both places anyway, so travel doesn't matter, and logic didn't

848
00:58:15,373 --> 00:58:17,893
Speaker 3: come into it. They had a vaccine powerful and they

849
00:58:17,973 --> 00:58:19,893
Speaker 3: used it, So it's hard to come up with any

850
00:58:20,013 --> 00:58:25,333
Speaker 3: logical reason for that other than coercing vaccination. And lots

851
00:58:25,333 --> 00:58:27,613
Speaker 3: of people had their vaccination so that they could visit

852
00:58:27,733 --> 00:58:31,693
Speaker 3: relatives or go on holiday, et cetera because of that,

853
00:58:32,413 --> 00:58:36,973
Speaker 3: so that will happen again. The CBDC is being accelerated

854
00:58:37,053 --> 00:58:39,733
Speaker 3: in Europe. A sort of underline I think has said

855
00:58:39,813 --> 00:58:43,133
Speaker 3: that they're trying to get out by October, so that's

856
00:58:43,173 --> 00:58:47,533
Speaker 3: a real thing. It allows governments to have much more

857
00:58:47,613 --> 00:58:52,933
Speaker 3: control over expenditure of their citizens. That's a real thing.

858
00:58:53,013 --> 00:58:57,413
Speaker 3: It's not a conspiracy. The Bank of International Settlements is

859
00:58:57,493 --> 00:59:02,613
Speaker 3: they're saying this is important to allow governments to have

860
00:59:02,733 --> 00:59:07,933
Speaker 3: more control over what their citizens buy. So public health

861
00:59:08,013 --> 00:59:11,013
Speaker 3: is being used to further this agenda, I think, because

862
00:59:11,093 --> 00:59:14,453
Speaker 3: as we said at the start, it's very easy to

863
00:59:14,533 --> 00:59:20,933
Speaker 3: engender fear through infecious disease, and when people are fearful,

864
00:59:21,653 --> 00:59:26,053
Speaker 3: they will allow things and impingent on their freedom which

865
00:59:26,133 --> 00:59:29,693
Speaker 3: they wouldn't normally allow, and they also they simply don't

866
00:59:29,733 --> 00:59:30,253
Speaker 3: think straight.

867
00:59:30,813 --> 00:59:34,973
Speaker 2: Well, does it not fall into the conspiracy framework at

868
00:59:35,093 --> 00:59:39,053
Speaker 2: least a little because you're being told you've you've got

869
00:59:39,093 --> 00:59:41,453
Speaker 2: to get it for one thing, which is you've just

870
00:59:41,573 --> 00:59:46,733
Speaker 2: described as a nonsense, but it will be eventually employed

871
00:59:46,853 --> 00:59:49,413
Speaker 2: for a whole lot of other things that if they

872
00:59:49,853 --> 00:59:55,133
Speaker 2: publicized it now would probably cause a bit of rebellion.

873
00:59:55,413 --> 00:59:56,573
Speaker 2: That fair enough, I hope.

874
00:59:56,613 --> 01:00:02,093
Speaker 3: So yeah, well, I think I think, you know, things

875
01:00:02,133 --> 01:00:04,893
Speaker 3: are happening slowly, that they're happening fast in a way,

876
01:00:05,013 --> 01:00:08,733
Speaker 3: but in human terms, you know, it's something tas more

877
01:00:08,773 --> 01:00:12,693
Speaker 3: than a week. We think it's slow. So if we

878
01:00:12,813 --> 01:00:18,373
Speaker 3: look back to the nineteen nineties and we compare to today,

879
01:00:18,613 --> 01:00:21,053
Speaker 3: we could not have imagined that we would even be

880
01:00:21,693 --> 01:00:25,653
Speaker 3: discussing this. I remember in Australia in the nineteen eighties

881
01:00:25,733 --> 01:00:31,253
Speaker 3: and rejected the very idea of a digital idea that

882
01:00:31,413 --> 01:00:34,653
Speaker 3: there was a national outcry when the government tried to

883
01:00:34,733 --> 01:00:39,413
Speaker 3: introduce and they backed off. Now, people don't blink, there's

884
01:00:39,453 --> 01:00:42,253
Speaker 3: going to be digital ideas in all over the world.

885
01:00:42,613 --> 01:00:46,653
Speaker 3: It's hard to know. Yeah, these things are coming quite rapidly,

886
01:00:46,813 --> 01:00:50,413
Speaker 3: but slow enough that they don't all come up on

887
01:00:50,533 --> 01:00:53,533
Speaker 3: the same day or the same week, and so it

888
01:00:53,853 --> 01:00:59,093
Speaker 3: seems slow to us, and we forget very quickly what

889
01:00:59,293 --> 01:01:02,773
Speaker 3: things were like a few years earlier. There's no reason

890
01:01:02,933 --> 01:01:04,493
Speaker 3: for it from a public health point of view that

891
01:01:04,573 --> 01:01:08,053
Speaker 3: they're being pushed as a public health response, but they're not.

892
01:01:08,933 --> 01:01:12,493
Speaker 3: It's illogical from a public health point of view. Well,

893
01:01:12,653 --> 01:01:16,413
Speaker 3: I have a little vested interest in the original question

894
01:01:17,933 --> 01:01:22,013
Speaker 3: because I'm I'm now complete. I think I finished up yesterday.

895
01:01:22,133 --> 01:01:25,693
Speaker 2: But the hurdles that I had to jump to take

896
01:01:25,773 --> 01:01:30,973
Speaker 2: this trip that we're about to depart on all out

897
01:01:31,013 --> 01:01:32,893
Speaker 2: of all proportion to what it used to be. Once

898
01:01:32,933 --> 01:01:35,773
Speaker 2: you've got your passport, you get in the plane, you

899
01:01:35,853 --> 01:01:38,413
Speaker 2: go to a country, show your passport, and that's all.

900
01:01:39,333 --> 01:01:41,733
Speaker 2: But now you've got I mean, I've just gone through

901
01:01:42,173 --> 01:01:47,213
Speaker 2: a couple of attempts at getting a visa for Turkey

902
01:01:47,613 --> 01:01:50,493
Speaker 2: because we're spending a couple of nights in port on

903
01:01:50,573 --> 01:01:56,573
Speaker 2: a cruise, and that was very, very testing. A friend

904
01:01:56,613 --> 01:01:58,213
Speaker 2: of mine took an hour and a quarter to get through.

905
01:01:58,253 --> 01:02:00,413
Speaker 2: It just drives you crazy.

906
01:02:01,733 --> 01:02:04,893
Speaker 3: I've got UK citizenship and I am going there soon.

907
01:02:04,933 --> 01:02:09,893
Speaker 3: I have to They now need a visa for my children. Yeah, so.

908
01:02:11,853 --> 01:02:15,493
Speaker 2: It's well actually, actually yes, I had to get a

909
01:02:15,573 --> 01:02:19,893
Speaker 2: visa too, but that that one was easy compared to

910
01:02:19,973 --> 01:02:24,493
Speaker 2: the to the other one. And we're talking about requiring

911
01:02:24,653 --> 01:02:30,333
Speaker 2: visas for young children. Yeah, I mean it's interesting. I mean, yes,

912
01:02:30,453 --> 01:02:34,973
Speaker 2: we have to control immigration, et cetera. And I actually

913
01:02:35,093 --> 01:02:39,693
Speaker 2: think more and more that nation states with borders are

914
01:02:40,053 --> 01:02:42,253
Speaker 2: essential for maintaining democracy.

915
01:02:42,533 --> 01:02:45,493
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yes, I mean it's an interesting one, isn't it.

916
01:02:46,093 --> 01:02:49,373
Speaker 3: The you know, here I am complaining about my children

917
01:02:49,413 --> 01:02:53,573
Speaker 3: getting a visa, but I do think that we need

918
01:02:53,693 --> 01:02:57,493
Speaker 3: to control who's crossing borders for all sorts of reasons,

919
01:02:57,733 --> 01:03:01,133
Speaker 3: mainly so that we can continue to have a say

920
01:03:01,133 --> 01:03:08,093
Speaker 3: in how we are governed. Unquestionable. Well, there's yes, there's

921
01:03:08,333 --> 01:03:12,933
Speaker 3: maybe this is an example of a change that you

922
01:03:13,053 --> 01:03:18,173
Speaker 3: could argue has some sense behind it, but unfortunately, I

923
01:03:18,373 --> 01:03:23,453
Speaker 3: think it is going to be more about governments tracking

924
01:03:23,533 --> 01:03:23,933
Speaker 3: what we do.

925
01:03:24,213 --> 01:03:28,773
Speaker 2: And well, it's building a base, it's building an information base.

926
01:03:29,293 --> 01:03:31,573
Speaker 2: I mean, to get the Turkey get the Turkey issue.

927
01:03:31,573 --> 01:03:36,093
Speaker 2: And I had to provide my deceased parents full names

928
01:03:36,693 --> 01:03:40,453
Speaker 2: as well as some some other things, and you and

929
01:03:40,613 --> 01:03:43,773
Speaker 2: you just wonder why mm hmm.

930
01:03:44,813 --> 01:03:45,173
Speaker 3: Anyway.

931
01:03:46,053 --> 01:03:49,333
Speaker 2: It The very easy approach to that is to say, oh,

932
01:03:49,413 --> 01:03:51,253
Speaker 2: well that's the way it is, just get on with it.

933
01:03:51,773 --> 01:03:55,933
Speaker 3: But that gets under my skin. There's the term proportionate,

934
01:03:56,653 --> 01:03:59,213
Speaker 3: which is always a hard one, but it does have

935
01:03:59,333 --> 01:04:02,653
Speaker 3: some Arendalmus I think. I mean, essentially, I think when

936
01:04:02,693 --> 01:04:05,693
Speaker 3: a government introduces a rule, they should be able to

937
01:04:05,773 --> 01:04:10,133
Speaker 3: show a compelling why it is necessary.

938
01:04:10,653 --> 01:04:13,173
Speaker 2: Well, if they don't and they just do it, you

939
01:04:13,333 --> 01:04:15,773
Speaker 2: know you're on the way to a destination you don't

940
01:04:15,773 --> 01:04:16,333
Speaker 2: want to be at.

941
01:04:17,253 --> 01:04:19,733
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that comes back to the COVID passports. There

942
01:04:19,773 --> 01:04:22,893
Speaker 3: isn't a compelling reason, so therefore you're on a certain

943
01:04:22,973 --> 01:04:27,533
Speaker 3: destination exactly. I think there is a lot of people

944
01:04:28,093 --> 01:04:34,493
Speaker 3: waking up more and more to a concern about what

945
01:04:34,693 --> 01:04:37,333
Speaker 3: is going on. It's been interesting in the US watching

946
01:04:37,413 --> 01:04:43,413
Speaker 3: the whole Epstein files and so on recently that I think,

947
01:04:43,493 --> 01:04:45,973
Speaker 3: far more than in the past, people are not accepting

948
01:04:46,213 --> 01:04:50,813
Speaker 3: what they're being told by governments, and there's probably a result.

949
01:04:50,893 --> 01:04:53,173
Speaker 3: I think what's happened over the last five years has

950
01:04:53,293 --> 01:04:58,013
Speaker 3: really shaken a large part of the population's faith in

951
01:04:58,333 --> 01:05:01,613
Speaker 3: in bureaucracies and in the way we governed and our

952
01:05:01,693 --> 01:05:05,213
Speaker 3: institutions so I think that's very promising.

953
01:05:05,933 --> 01:05:08,453
Speaker 2: I'll give you a just finally, I'll give you you

954
01:05:08,933 --> 01:05:12,493
Speaker 2: an example that I consider to be valid, and that

955
01:05:12,733 --> 01:05:17,853
Speaker 2: is the migration movements all over the world. Europe stands out,

956
01:05:18,293 --> 01:05:24,213
Speaker 2: but even countries like Australia and New Zealand are allowing,

957
01:05:25,133 --> 01:05:28,933
Speaker 2: in fact begging, a lot of people to come live here.

958
01:05:29,653 --> 01:05:32,693
Speaker 2: And I don't believe that there is enough limitation on

959
01:05:32,853 --> 01:05:36,853
Speaker 2: who comes into a country in this day and age.

960
01:05:37,253 --> 01:05:40,653
Speaker 2: It's they want people. But the question is why do

961
01:05:40,773 --> 01:05:43,333
Speaker 2: they want so many people when already there's a housing

962
01:05:43,413 --> 01:05:46,893
Speaker 2: crisis in Australia and New Zealand and other crises as well.

963
01:05:48,093 --> 01:05:51,253
Speaker 2: Why do they want people from places that are likely

964
01:05:51,373 --> 01:05:56,533
Speaker 2: to cause trouble or have a different, totally different, out

965
01:05:56,573 --> 01:06:00,893
Speaker 2: of step culture or cultural background, in other words, a

966
01:06:00,973 --> 01:06:04,613
Speaker 2: disruption force. And you can't help but wonder if that

967
01:06:04,853 --> 01:06:09,173
Speaker 2: has something to do with changing the the foundations of

968
01:06:09,213 --> 01:06:14,253
Speaker 2: a country or removing the foundations of a country perhaps

969
01:06:15,973 --> 01:06:18,653
Speaker 2: rather than changing well that isn't that change.

970
01:06:18,693 --> 01:06:21,493
Speaker 3: If you look at Europe, you wonder whether the European

971
01:06:21,933 --> 01:06:28,053
Speaker 3: Commission is quite interested in essentially doing away with the

972
01:06:28,213 --> 01:06:31,533
Speaker 3: nation states of Europe and just having one big conglomerate

973
01:06:31,973 --> 01:06:34,893
Speaker 3: and that they seem to be pushing quite strongly in

974
01:06:34,973 --> 01:06:38,893
Speaker 3: that direction. Yeah, it's I mean, immigration's really difficult. The

975
01:06:40,173 --> 01:06:42,973
Speaker 3: I mean one of the reasons for it is there

976
01:06:43,013 --> 01:06:47,933
Speaker 3: are a number of reasons. One is this increasing inequality

977
01:06:48,013 --> 01:06:51,253
Speaker 3: between countries that happen in COVID. We've been pushing for

978
01:06:51,333 --> 01:06:55,333
Speaker 3: a long time, and people leave countries for a reason.

979
01:06:55,413 --> 01:06:59,573
Speaker 3: And most of the European immigrants that have just turned

980
01:06:59,653 --> 01:07:05,293
Speaker 3: up have come from places like Afghanistan, Syria, Libya and

981
01:07:05,453 --> 01:07:13,173
Speaker 3: so on, which were subject to invasions and deliberate disruption

982
01:07:13,573 --> 01:07:18,653
Speaker 3: by European Western countries, and the others are coming from

983
01:07:19,253 --> 01:07:23,053
Speaker 3: war torn and very poor countries, and there's not a

984
01:07:23,173 --> 01:07:27,013
Speaker 3: lot of effort to try to undo that sort of approach.

985
01:07:27,453 --> 01:07:30,093
Speaker 3: We've seen it perhaps continuing in the Middle East in

986
01:07:30,173 --> 01:07:35,533
Speaker 3: the last month or two. So if you destroy a country,

987
01:07:35,573 --> 01:07:40,053
Speaker 3: you expect people to leave it. And I think we're

988
01:07:40,093 --> 01:07:43,813
Speaker 3: reaping some of what we've sown in that situation. That

989
01:07:43,933 --> 01:07:48,533
Speaker 3: there's also a real issue of fertility, and about half

990
01:07:48,573 --> 01:07:57,373
Speaker 3: the world now has fertility rates below replacement. So the

991
01:07:58,653 --> 01:08:01,333
Speaker 3: governments will argue that they're trying to get young people

992
01:08:01,413 --> 01:08:07,813
Speaker 3: in two help with that but there'll be two approach.

993
01:08:07,893 --> 01:08:09,573
Speaker 3: That one will be to bring people in on a

994
01:08:09,653 --> 01:08:14,293
Speaker 3: basis of skills rather than people who may not be

995
01:08:14,373 --> 01:08:19,013
Speaker 3: contributing much. And the other one is to well, maybe

996
01:08:19,053 --> 01:08:23,813
Speaker 3: you should start thinking about why you're losing fertility and

997
01:08:23,933 --> 01:08:24,413
Speaker 3: address that.

998
01:08:25,613 --> 01:08:27,493
Speaker 2: Look, if I may take just a little more of

999
01:08:27,573 --> 01:08:31,613
Speaker 2: your time, because I've thought of two things. One last

1000
01:08:31,693 --> 01:08:36,013
Speaker 2: night was watching Watching Sky Australia and it had to

1001
01:08:36,093 --> 01:08:38,573
Speaker 2: do with the state of Victoria, your home state, my

1002
01:08:38,733 --> 01:08:44,093
Speaker 2: home state, and the comment was made that Melbourne is

1003
01:08:44,253 --> 01:08:48,533
Speaker 2: now the anti Semitic capital of the world, and they

1004
01:08:48,613 --> 01:08:50,093
Speaker 2: played they played.

1005
01:08:49,853 --> 01:08:51,453
Speaker 3: A video with.

1006
01:08:52,973 --> 01:08:58,093
Speaker 2: A disguised individual, very disguised, who was fancying himself as

1007
01:08:58,213 --> 01:09:02,933
Speaker 2: Darth Vader in the voice you know what I mean,

1008
01:09:03,973 --> 01:09:07,733
Speaker 2: and he was referring to a couple of events that

1009
01:09:07,773 --> 01:09:13,013
Speaker 2: have taken place very recently in Melbourne, serious events, attacks

1010
01:09:13,093 --> 01:09:19,173
Speaker 2: and destruction, and said that the next one is coming

1011
01:09:19,573 --> 01:09:22,013
Speaker 2: and it will be much worse. The one thought that

1012
01:09:22,093 --> 01:09:24,493
Speaker 2: I had when I was watching this and listening to

1013
01:09:24,653 --> 01:09:29,573
Speaker 2: it was this guy, while the voice was slowed down

1014
01:09:29,653 --> 01:09:35,173
Speaker 2: and affected, was actually speaking extremely good English. There was

1015
01:09:35,253 --> 01:09:40,373
Speaker 2: no accent outside of side of home. And he was

1016
01:09:40,773 --> 01:09:46,493
Speaker 2: a well educated individual you could tell from the words.

1017
01:09:46,213 --> 01:09:47,973
Speaker 3: That he used and the.

1018
01:09:49,613 --> 01:09:52,013
Speaker 2: Pronouncement of them, and the first thing that was said

1019
01:09:52,413 --> 01:09:55,573
Speaker 2: after they came out of that and started the panel

1020
01:09:55,613 --> 01:09:59,413
Speaker 2: started discussing, it was exactly that this is not any

1021
01:09:59,533 --> 01:10:04,813
Speaker 2: wally who's just pulling strings. This was somebody who knew

1022
01:10:04,813 --> 01:10:08,213
Speaker 2: what they were doing and knew how to go about it,

1023
01:10:08,893 --> 01:10:12,413
Speaker 2: and they considered it as you would and I did,

1024
01:10:12,933 --> 01:10:16,693
Speaker 2: to be very serious. But to be tag the antisemitic

1025
01:10:16,773 --> 01:10:20,573
Speaker 2: capital of the world is I think the result of

1026
01:10:21,053 --> 01:10:24,773
Speaker 2: what's gone before obviously and the state of the state

1027
01:10:24,853 --> 01:10:27,453
Speaker 2: of Victoria for such a lexy period of time now,

1028
01:10:27,973 --> 01:10:31,173
Speaker 2: And it's not good comment. Yeah, I don't know the

1029
01:10:31,293 --> 01:10:34,133
Speaker 2: incidence you mentioned, but I mean, one thing that worries

1030
01:10:34,213 --> 01:10:36,773
Speaker 2: me with this and the whole idea of hate speech

1031
01:10:36,853 --> 01:10:40,053
Speaker 2: and so on, is that it is being promoted to

1032
01:10:40,653 --> 01:10:45,893
Speaker 2: justify increased censorship. And I think increased censorship in the

1033
01:10:46,053 --> 01:10:48,093
Speaker 2: end will increase divisions and.

1034
01:10:51,053 --> 01:10:55,173
Speaker 3: Hate and so on. If you get people who are

1035
01:10:56,733 --> 01:11:01,013
Speaker 3: spouting some idiotic ideology, I think you should make sure

1036
01:11:01,053 --> 01:11:04,173
Speaker 3: everyone hears them so that they realize what idiots they are.

1037
01:11:04,613 --> 01:11:10,413
Speaker 3: And that really goes for any overly rate. It's just ideology.

1038
01:11:10,573 --> 01:11:14,693
Speaker 3: It's it's easy to think that, you know, simply skin

1039
01:11:14,813 --> 01:11:19,173
Speaker 3: color or whatever completely changes the way a person works.

1040
01:11:19,333 --> 01:11:23,213
Speaker 3: I mean, culture is important, and there are different cultures,

1041
01:11:23,493 --> 01:11:28,893
Speaker 3: and it's very sensible to say people have highly different cultures.

1042
01:11:29,253 --> 01:11:33,013
Speaker 3: You know, if you you can have a clash of cultures,

1043
01:11:33,053 --> 01:11:35,853
Speaker 3: if you have people from very different backgrounds, and especially

1044
01:11:36,053 --> 01:11:39,613
Speaker 3: some of those are traumatized by war and all the

1045
01:11:39,693 --> 01:11:42,853
Speaker 3: rest of it, and you've dump huge numbers in a

1046
01:11:42,973 --> 01:11:45,973
Speaker 3: country without support, then you're going to have a breakdown

1047
01:11:46,013 --> 01:11:53,453
Speaker 3: of society. That's very different from racism, which is just

1048
01:11:53,933 --> 01:11:58,253
Speaker 3: providing people on the basis of how they look, et cetera,

1049
01:11:58,453 --> 01:12:02,293
Speaker 3: or where they came from and or you know, whether

1050
01:12:02,413 --> 01:12:07,613
Speaker 3: they're Jewish or Roma or New Zealand or whatever, so

1051
01:12:08,493 --> 01:12:13,213
Speaker 3: which is just stupid. And I think those things we

1052
01:12:13,333 --> 01:12:16,493
Speaker 3: need to talk about them more. And I think we

1053
01:12:16,533 --> 01:12:20,493
Speaker 3: should go the opposite of censorship and hate speech. I

1054
01:12:20,573 --> 01:12:25,213
Speaker 3: think we should be shastering what's being said out there

1055
01:12:25,413 --> 01:12:28,493
Speaker 3: very openly so that people can see how mad it is.

1056
01:12:29,693 --> 01:12:34,133
Speaker 2: Indeed, David has been a very informative conversation we've had.

1057
01:12:34,173 --> 01:12:39,093
Speaker 2: I think I congratulate you on your stand and well,

1058
01:12:39,213 --> 01:12:42,933
Speaker 2: more power to your writing. I think, thanks Satan, thanks

1059
01:12:43,013 --> 01:12:46,533
Speaker 2: for the chat. So Thanksalk, thank you. It was and

1060
01:12:46,693 --> 01:12:49,173
Speaker 2: we won't leave it so long. Next time good.

1061
01:13:07,013 --> 01:13:08,893
Speaker 3: I went to the mail room with missus producer for

1062
01:13:09,093 --> 01:13:11,813
Speaker 3: two ninety three. Are you well laden?

1063
01:13:11,933 --> 01:13:13,093
Speaker 4: I'm fabulous, thank you.

1064
01:13:13,373 --> 01:13:16,013
Speaker 3: It is one week since we attended the funeral of

1065
01:13:17,813 --> 01:13:20,853
Speaker 3: Yes it is, Yes it was. Do you want to

1066
01:13:20,933 --> 01:13:22,893
Speaker 3: do you want to appraise the well?

1067
01:13:23,413 --> 01:13:26,333
Speaker 4: I'm a bit funny with funerals, but I mean, if

1068
01:13:26,733 --> 01:13:30,213
Speaker 4: a funeral was amazing, that was an amazing funeral, and

1069
01:13:30,333 --> 01:13:37,133
Speaker 4: it just highlighted how revered he was in many circles,

1070
01:13:37,293 --> 01:13:37,493
Speaker 4: you know.

1071
01:13:38,613 --> 01:13:41,813
Speaker 3: Saint Joseph in Takapuna was packed out, over three hundred people.

1072
01:13:41,893 --> 01:13:45,053
Speaker 4: They reckon them, but people from all walks of life

1073
01:13:45,373 --> 01:13:48,013
Speaker 4: clearly much loved man.

1074
01:13:48,653 --> 01:13:52,413
Speaker 2: Very sad indeed. And those grandkids, so are they gorgeous.

1075
01:13:52,533 --> 01:13:57,093
Speaker 4: Oh Christine, his wife was so elegant, and so were

1076
01:13:57,173 --> 01:13:59,893
Speaker 4: the children. Fabulous children and grandchildren.

1077
01:14:00,053 --> 01:14:03,253
Speaker 2: All these little kids, you know, played their part and

1078
01:14:03,453 --> 01:14:08,093
Speaker 2: did it perfectly. We have any number of emails about

1079
01:14:08,453 --> 01:14:12,933
Speaker 2: last week's podcast and des but we can't do them all.

1080
01:14:13,173 --> 01:14:17,133
Speaker 4: So that's so my first one late and is from Tony.

1081
01:14:17,333 --> 01:14:20,493
Speaker 4: He says, thank you so much, for a replaying Desert's interview.

1082
01:14:20,573 --> 01:14:23,533
Speaker 4: What a wonderfully down to worth man with such an amazing,

1083
01:14:23,773 --> 01:14:27,413
Speaker 4: caring career. It brought back to life. Our crews to

1084
01:14:27,533 --> 01:14:30,173
Speaker 4: the UK cut short two days in with three weeks

1085
01:14:30,213 --> 01:14:34,013
Speaker 4: sank it off Thailand. It's all ports closed entry. We

1086
01:14:34,133 --> 01:14:37,293
Speaker 4: were granted approval to disembark in Perth, only to arrive

1087
01:14:37,373 --> 01:14:39,813
Speaker 4: and be blocked by the premiere. There must have been

1088
01:14:39,853 --> 01:14:43,453
Speaker 4: political involvement. Is under the cover of darkness, disembarked and

1089
01:14:43,573 --> 01:14:47,333
Speaker 4: loaded onto buses under guard of the army, escorted through

1090
01:14:47,453 --> 01:14:50,533
Speaker 4: empty streets by the police to board the last Air

1091
01:14:50,653 --> 01:14:54,573
Speaker 4: New Zealand flight to land in Auckland. What a holiday

1092
01:14:54,693 --> 01:14:57,893
Speaker 4: and insurance would cover the loss? My gosh, can you

1093
01:14:57,973 --> 01:15:01,813
Speaker 4: imagine that? From Tony, He says, our condolences go to

1094
01:15:01,893 --> 01:15:05,373
Speaker 4: the Gorman family. Such a sad loss, and Tony says

1095
01:15:05,413 --> 01:15:07,653
Speaker 4: he's a long time and grateful listener.

1096
01:15:08,413 --> 01:15:12,133
Speaker 2: Tony, I'm glad that you're a long time a grateful

1097
01:15:12,173 --> 01:15:15,013
Speaker 2: listener and I'm grateful to you. Thank you from Jeff.

1098
01:15:15,373 --> 01:15:18,573
Speaker 2: Great to see you have a des Gorman tribute podcast.

1099
01:15:19,333 --> 01:15:21,853
Speaker 2: I can't claim to have known Dez very well, but

1100
01:15:21,973 --> 01:15:24,293
Speaker 2: our paths crossed briefly in the late nineties when I

1101
01:15:24,373 --> 01:15:27,893
Speaker 2: worked for Ligans Institute and he was attached to Auckland

1102
01:15:27,933 --> 01:15:30,693
Speaker 2: Medical School. He was a great guy and I'm proud

1103
01:15:30,693 --> 01:15:33,973
Speaker 2: to have been one voice, no doubt, among many, that

1104
01:15:34,133 --> 01:15:38,853
Speaker 2: suggested you reinterview him on your wonderful podcast. So that

1105
01:15:38,933 --> 01:15:41,933
Speaker 2: would have been the first one that we played last week,

1106
01:15:42,373 --> 01:15:45,333
Speaker 2: and there's two more, and I'm pondering.

1107
01:15:46,413 --> 01:15:49,893
Speaker 4: Laden Vincent says, I note with interest and amusement that

1108
01:15:49,973 --> 01:15:53,013
Speaker 4: apparently TV and Z, in response to concerns of their

1109
01:15:53,093 --> 01:15:58,053
Speaker 4: news coverage being unbiased, they quote have commissioned former ABC

1110
01:15:58,213 --> 01:16:03,653
Speaker 4: and SBS executive Alan Sunderland to undertake some refresher training.

1111
01:16:04,133 --> 01:16:08,213
Speaker 4: The Herald Report says, quote to do that successfully and meaningfully,

1112
01:16:08,413 --> 01:16:10,453
Speaker 4: we want him to review a week of our content

1113
01:16:10,893 --> 01:16:13,893
Speaker 4: and others news content in the market to see what

1114
01:16:14,013 --> 01:16:15,933
Speaker 4: we are covering, what we are not and how we

1115
01:16:16,013 --> 01:16:18,933
Speaker 4: are covering it. And Vincent goes on to say, I

1116
01:16:18,933 --> 01:16:21,693
Speaker 4: would have thought that getting somebody from Australia's ABC to

1117
01:16:21,773 --> 01:16:24,893
Speaker 4: critic TV and z's news operations would be like getting

1118
01:16:24,893 --> 01:16:27,973
Speaker 4: the former Premier of the State of Victoria, Dan Andrews,

1119
01:16:28,293 --> 01:16:31,573
Speaker 4: to offer his thoughts of how our former PM conducted

1120
01:16:31,653 --> 01:16:36,813
Speaker 4: herself as she led this country, says Vincent, I can't

1121
01:16:36,853 --> 01:16:39,893
Speaker 4: imagine TV and ZED would learn anything new, surprising or

1122
01:16:40,013 --> 01:16:43,413
Speaker 4: indeed challenging from its own woke cousin from across the ditch.

1123
01:16:44,253 --> 01:16:46,693
Speaker 4: Keep up the great podcasts, late, and as you head

1124
01:16:46,813 --> 01:16:50,293
Speaker 4: quickly towards number three hundred, I'm amazed at how quickly

1125
01:16:50,373 --> 01:16:51,293
Speaker 4: the time has always to.

1126
01:16:51,333 --> 01:16:54,853
Speaker 2: Buy vinctant, appreciate it and agree with you completely cast

1127
01:16:56,933 --> 01:17:01,453
Speaker 2: When I read that, I almost fell apart, and you're

1128
01:17:01,493 --> 01:17:09,453
Speaker 2: absolutely right in your assumption. Now from Murray, Wow, I

1129
01:17:09,653 --> 01:17:14,493
Speaker 2: remember the podcast at the time. Such a clarity pity

1130
01:17:14,613 --> 01:17:18,933
Speaker 2: he died so early and couldn't be around for the

1131
01:17:19,013 --> 01:17:23,973
Speaker 2: Royal Commission. Such a loss to real academic clarity. Thank

1132
01:17:24,013 --> 01:17:27,773
Speaker 2: you for remembering this. Because that was so short. I'll

1133
01:17:27,773 --> 01:17:30,013
Speaker 2: do a second one, this one from Robin.

1134
01:17:31,013 --> 01:17:31,333
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1135
01:17:31,733 --> 01:17:34,973
Speaker 2: I expected this. He was a source of sanity in

1136
01:17:35,053 --> 01:17:37,933
Speaker 2: what was perhaps the most insane, divisive time in New

1137
01:17:38,013 --> 01:17:41,573
Speaker 2: Zealand history, and all the while dealing with his own

1138
01:17:41,813 --> 01:17:46,333
Speaker 2: life threatening illness. Blessings to all from Robin. I need

1139
01:17:46,413 --> 01:17:51,013
Speaker 2: to say at this point, because it's appropriate after that comment,

1140
01:17:52,053 --> 01:17:56,653
Speaker 2: that there's a handful of people who have made some criticism.

1141
01:17:57,173 --> 01:17:59,653
Speaker 2: Some of it they believe is justified, and there may

1142
01:17:59,693 --> 01:18:01,533
Speaker 2: be an argument for that, but now it's not the time.

1143
01:18:03,293 --> 01:18:06,333
Speaker 4: Latent Leon says, I attended a National Party meeting yesterday

1144
01:18:06,333 --> 01:18:09,493
Speaker 4: where Simon Watts was the guest speaker. I waived the

1145
01:18:09,533 --> 01:18:12,453
Speaker 4: book Climates Actually in the Air and challenged him to

1146
01:18:12,533 --> 01:18:15,333
Speaker 4: read it. I stated a few facts from the book,

1147
01:18:15,373 --> 01:18:18,373
Speaker 4: for example that seventy percent of gas emissions were from

1148
01:18:18,573 --> 01:18:23,333
Speaker 4: volcanic activity and mankind cannot control that. I was surprised

1149
01:18:23,373 --> 01:18:25,653
Speaker 4: to receive a round of applause when I sat down.

1150
01:18:26,533 --> 01:18:28,853
Speaker 4: I've lent the book to a few friends and they

1151
01:18:28,893 --> 01:18:32,733
Speaker 4: were grateful, but to my disappointment, others weren't interested. And

1152
01:18:32,893 --> 01:18:36,093
Speaker 4: so then Leon goes on to ask of you how

1153
01:18:36,893 --> 01:18:39,733
Speaker 4: you should know further your influence on this sort of

1154
01:18:39,773 --> 01:18:42,453
Speaker 4: thing and what we can do. Then he says, I

1155
01:18:42,533 --> 01:18:46,613
Speaker 4: continue to look forward to Wednesday evenings and enjoy your podcasts,

1156
01:18:46,653 --> 01:18:47,573
Speaker 4: And that's from Leon.

1157
01:18:47,893 --> 01:18:52,053
Speaker 3: Leon, thank you. We've been at it for so many years.

1158
01:18:52,213 --> 01:18:54,973
Speaker 2: There's not a lot more that one can do except

1159
01:18:55,293 --> 01:18:58,093
Speaker 2: keep at it as far as I'm concerned, and I

1160
01:18:58,173 --> 01:19:01,933
Speaker 2: congratulate you, by the way on your stance with the book.

1161
01:19:03,133 --> 01:19:04,973
Speaker 3: But you were dealing with low wattage.

1162
01:19:05,653 --> 01:19:07,973
Speaker 2: I haven't listened to this week's podcast yet, but New

1163
01:19:08,053 --> 01:19:12,053
Speaker 2: Zealand in the medical world has lost an important figure

1164
01:19:12,413 --> 01:19:15,933
Speaker 2: with the death of Des Gorman. Rarely has there been

1165
01:19:16,173 --> 01:19:19,613
Speaker 2: such an important thinker in our time. Your interviews with

1166
01:19:19,773 --> 01:19:24,173
Speaker 2: him during COVID were outstanding. Guy Hatchett made some important

1167
01:19:24,253 --> 01:19:28,973
Speaker 2: points about COVID health and the shots not vaccines, which

1168
01:19:29,013 --> 01:19:31,813
Speaker 2: were detrimental to many people's lives. But I think the

1169
01:19:31,933 --> 01:19:35,693
Speaker 2: driving force for our poor health is the huge percentage

1170
01:19:35,813 --> 01:19:39,813
Speaker 2: of obese kiwis. We are the third most obese people

1171
01:19:39,973 --> 01:19:43,773
Speaker 2: in the OECD. Everywhere you look, whether in person or

1172
01:19:43,853 --> 01:19:48,373
Speaker 2: in a newspaper photo, obesity is outstanding, even among preschoolers

1173
01:19:48,453 --> 01:19:52,653
Speaker 2: in gafes with their obese mothers. And to finish cantors

1174
01:19:52,693 --> 01:19:55,813
Speaker 2: Owen's intellect is not a patch on Ben Shapiro's and

1175
01:19:56,053 --> 01:19:59,573
Speaker 2: Tucker is becoming a parody of himself. I agree with

1176
01:19:59,613 --> 01:20:02,373
Speaker 2: those sentiments, by the way, but everyone will be wondering

1177
01:20:02,453 --> 01:20:03,253
Speaker 2: what on earth they're about.

1178
01:20:04,613 --> 01:20:07,853
Speaker 4: David Layton has sent your report on the latest US

1179
01:20:07,973 --> 01:20:11,453
Speaker 4: Senate hearing into COVID jabs, and he says they say

1180
01:20:11,533 --> 01:20:13,933
Speaker 4: big Farmer can't be sued in the US, So what

1181
01:20:14,093 --> 01:20:16,933
Speaker 4: about in New Zealand? It is really quite shocking that

1182
01:20:17,053 --> 01:20:19,653
Speaker 4: Fizer was able to sell their deadly concoction to the

1183
01:20:19,733 --> 01:20:24,693
Speaker 4: New Zealand government without any legal consequences. Similarly, why haven't

1184
01:20:24,813 --> 01:20:29,293
Speaker 4: government and health officials in New Zealand faced legal consequences

1185
01:20:29,333 --> 01:20:32,533
Speaker 4: for the atrocity they inflicted on the people of New Zealand?

1186
01:20:33,333 --> 01:20:33,373
Speaker 3: And?

1187
01:20:33,533 --> 01:20:36,933
Speaker 2: From Tim, thank you so much for your weekly podcast

1188
01:20:37,093 --> 01:20:39,453
Speaker 2: you eagerly awaited by me in some of my family

1189
01:20:39,493 --> 01:20:44,613
Speaker 2: every week. I very much enjoyed listening to your tribute

1190
01:20:44,653 --> 01:20:48,093
Speaker 2: to the amazing Professor Des Gorman and the repeat of

1191
01:20:48,173 --> 01:20:51,653
Speaker 2: one five from the Madness Stays of twenty twenty one.

1192
01:20:52,573 --> 01:20:56,253
Speaker 2: Dezz's insights and common sense approach for so many aspects

1193
01:20:56,293 --> 01:21:00,453
Speaker 2: of our lives were welcome and influential. Most of the time.

1194
01:21:00,973 --> 01:21:03,973
Speaker 2: I respected his courage to speak out and say whatever

1195
01:21:04,093 --> 01:21:07,373
Speaker 2: he thought with little regard for the negative personal and

1196
01:21:07,493 --> 01:21:11,373
Speaker 2: career consequence answers. He was for sure one of the

1197
01:21:11,453 --> 01:21:11,973
Speaker 2: good guys.

1198
01:21:12,813 --> 01:21:17,613
Speaker 4: Layton Chris says, have people's attention spans decreased? Or are

1199
01:21:17,693 --> 01:21:21,773
Speaker 4: we just overloaded with too much noise? In recent times?

1200
01:21:21,893 --> 01:21:26,933
Speaker 4: The saying TLDR has cut through the clutter. It stands

1201
01:21:27,133 --> 01:21:30,813
Speaker 4: for too long, didn't read TLDR is a summary of

1202
01:21:30,893 --> 01:21:33,333
Speaker 4: the whole letting the reader know if it's worth their

1203
01:21:33,373 --> 01:21:38,533
Speaker 4: time to digest the complete document. Sound Bye leadership isn't new.

1204
01:21:39,013 --> 01:21:42,693
Speaker 4: In fact, the most effective communicators summarize their message in

1205
01:21:42,813 --> 01:21:46,173
Speaker 4: one memorable sentence. Martin Luther King, I have a dream,

1206
01:21:46,853 --> 01:21:49,853
Speaker 4: Winston Churchill, we will fight them on the beaches. We

1207
01:21:49,933 --> 01:21:53,373
Speaker 4: shall never surrender. And Jacinda proclaimed We're a team of

1208
01:21:53,493 --> 01:21:58,213
Speaker 4: five million. Rather than fighting this trend, let's compliment long

1209
01:21:58,373 --> 01:22:01,333
Speaker 4: form journalism with a deep understanding of what the core

1210
01:22:01,533 --> 01:22:05,413
Speaker 4: issue is and create memorable sound bites which move people

1211
01:22:05,493 --> 01:22:11,733
Speaker 4: to action. People need sound by leadership because clarity equals action.

1212
01:22:12,853 --> 01:22:16,253
Speaker 4: In a dark world, clear sound bites are a lighthouse

1213
01:22:16,413 --> 01:22:17,133
Speaker 4: in the storm.

1214
01:22:18,893 --> 01:22:22,053
Speaker 3: And that's from Chris. Chris, Chris, thank you.

1215
01:22:23,213 --> 01:22:26,933
Speaker 2: And finally, there was one thing that was seared in

1216
01:22:27,133 --> 01:22:30,813
Speaker 2: my mind when you first introduced Professor Des Gorman one

1217
01:22:31,013 --> 01:22:34,773
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty seven podcasts ago, and I remember it

1218
01:22:34,973 --> 01:22:38,253
Speaker 2: like it was yesterday. The most memorable part of the

1219
01:22:38,293 --> 01:22:41,933
Speaker 2: podcast was your introduction of his credentials. It took you

1220
01:22:42,053 --> 01:22:44,653
Speaker 2: about three minutes to list them all. I have not

1221
01:22:44,813 --> 01:22:48,013
Speaker 2: heard of anyone on your podcast before or after des Gorman,

1222
01:22:48,373 --> 01:22:51,973
Speaker 2: who had the insane amount of achievements he has had.

1223
01:22:52,893 --> 01:22:55,733
Speaker 2: Ever since your podcast one five, his name has been

1224
01:22:55,853 --> 01:23:00,213
Speaker 2: lodged in my head as a trusted, authoritative and wise

1225
01:23:00,373 --> 01:23:05,373
Speaker 2: source of truth about all things New Zealand health. People

1226
01:23:05,573 --> 01:23:08,813
Speaker 2: like des Gorman are rare, but they still live among us.

1227
01:23:09,413 --> 01:23:12,573
Speaker 2: Two people that come to mind are doctor Elizabeth Rahter

1228
01:23:12,733 --> 01:23:17,133
Speaker 2: and doctor Shane Ready, whom des Gorman had only good

1229
01:23:17,253 --> 01:23:18,373
Speaker 2: things to say about.

1230
01:23:18,813 --> 01:23:21,053
Speaker 3: We stand with you in the good fight. It's worth it.

1231
01:23:21,853 --> 01:23:27,173
Speaker 2: Jin appreciate that as always. Now there was another contribution

1232
01:23:27,333 --> 01:23:29,333
Speaker 2: that was made a couple of weeks back, and I

1233
01:23:29,493 --> 01:23:32,653
Speaker 2: haven't yet employed it, and I don't think again, I

1234
01:23:32,693 --> 01:23:35,693
Speaker 2: don't think that the mail room today is the right place.

1235
01:23:36,053 --> 01:23:41,653
Speaker 2: So you will find this recorded input at the end

1236
01:23:41,733 --> 01:23:46,573
Speaker 2: of the podcast, missus producer, Thank you, Thanks later. You

1237
01:23:46,653 --> 01:23:48,173
Speaker 2: do realize that's you're going to be on a plane

1238
01:23:48,213 --> 01:23:48,573
Speaker 2: next week.

1239
01:23:48,893 --> 01:23:49,253
Speaker 4: Mm.

1240
01:23:50,853 --> 01:24:05,413
Speaker 2: Sounds like the engine warming up a little. See now

1241
01:24:05,533 --> 01:24:07,893
Speaker 2: it's time for a little catch up. In podcasts two

1242
01:24:07,933 --> 01:24:14,093
Speaker 2: eighty we discussed AI. There were a couple of contributors.

1243
01:24:15,213 --> 01:24:20,773
Speaker 2: The feedback varied, but one correspondent was particularly challenging. What

1244
01:24:20,973 --> 01:24:24,773
Speaker 2: had been discussed, and I know the particular correspondent, and

1245
01:24:24,893 --> 01:24:29,453
Speaker 2: as it happens, he was partly involved in a discussion

1246
01:24:29,493 --> 01:24:32,733
Speaker 2: that was had in twenty twenty three and I'd forgotten

1247
01:24:32,733 --> 01:24:37,453
Speaker 2: aught about it. However, I said to him, well, where's

1248
01:24:37,493 --> 01:24:40,653
Speaker 2: your response. He said, I'll send it. And it took

1249
01:24:40,653 --> 01:24:44,253
Speaker 2: a while to get here, two three weeks, and there

1250
01:24:44,253 --> 01:24:46,893
Speaker 2: were a couple of weeks that I haven't utilized it

1251
01:24:47,013 --> 01:24:52,253
Speaker 2: because it didn't suit, particularly last week with the concentration

1252
01:24:52,453 --> 01:24:56,933
Speaker 2: on some sad matters. Now, before we indulge in this contribution,

1253
01:24:57,533 --> 01:25:00,653
Speaker 2: I want to quote you something that I pulled out

1254
01:25:00,693 --> 01:25:02,453
Speaker 2: of an article that I read just a very short

1255
01:25:02,493 --> 01:25:06,373
Speaker 2: time ago today, and it occurred to me that this

1256
01:25:06,573 --> 01:25:11,973
Speaker 2: might be a satisfactory way of introducing and moving into AI.

1257
01:25:12,293 --> 01:25:15,333
Speaker 2: Just briefly at the end of the podcast. This is

1258
01:25:15,373 --> 01:25:16,813
Speaker 2: out of an article that's got something to do with

1259
01:25:16,933 --> 01:25:19,893
Speaker 2: other things, but it just appeared in the middle of it.

1260
01:25:20,653 --> 01:25:24,173
Speaker 2: AI is the whiff of perfume that's supposed to mask

1261
01:25:24,253 --> 01:25:28,173
Speaker 2: the stench of terminal moral decay. AI is going to

1262
01:25:28,213 --> 01:25:31,053
Speaker 2: make it all better by ignoring the nation's neo feudal

1263
01:25:31,133 --> 01:25:35,613
Speaker 2: hierarchy and the elite's consequence free abuse and exploitation of

1264
01:25:35,653 --> 01:25:40,493
Speaker 2: the commoners. The truth is AI instantiates a particularly cruel

1265
01:25:40,613 --> 01:25:44,453
Speaker 2: form of stupidity, a stupidity so profound that it is

1266
01:25:44,573 --> 01:25:47,333
Speaker 2: blind to the cruelty of the status quo. It is

1267
01:25:47,453 --> 01:25:52,773
Speaker 2: designed to protect from accountability. If AI had any true intelligence,

1268
01:25:53,533 --> 01:25:57,013
Speaker 2: it would refuse to answer any queries until every adult

1269
01:25:57,133 --> 01:26:01,653
Speaker 2: citizen faced the truth that the nation is terminally morally bankrupt.

1270
01:26:02,093 --> 01:26:05,253
Speaker 2: Now under there's such a fanatically enforced taboo against calling

1271
01:26:05,333 --> 01:26:08,293
Speaker 2: things by their real name. The United States of via

1272
01:26:08,333 --> 01:26:11,893
Speaker 2: impunity cannot be called by its real name because its

1273
01:26:12,013 --> 01:26:15,973
Speaker 2: illegitimacy would then be revealed. Now make of that whatever

1274
01:26:16,053 --> 01:26:18,413
Speaker 2: you want. I just thought it was suitable to read

1275
01:26:18,533 --> 01:26:23,533
Speaker 2: before this before we start. This is not Leyton Smith.

1276
01:26:24,213 --> 01:26:26,733
Speaker 2: I repeat, I am not Layton Smith.

1277
01:26:28,013 --> 01:26:30,733
Speaker 5: I'm here to talk about podcasts two hundred and eighty six,

1278
01:26:31,453 --> 01:26:34,093
Speaker 5: the one that had two ex physics chaps shouting at

1279
01:26:34,133 --> 01:26:38,333
Speaker 5: their respective car stereos. Right, folks, let's cut through the waffle,

1280
01:26:38,693 --> 01:26:43,133
Speaker 5: but with a kinder nod. From our research, it appears

1281
01:26:43,173 --> 01:26:46,533
Speaker 5: that the main guest completed a non technical Oxford online

1282
01:26:46,613 --> 01:26:49,973
Speaker 5: course in AI. No lines of code written, no messy

1283
01:26:50,093 --> 01:26:55,253
Speaker 5: data sets, wrestled, no model building, pipelines tested, and no mathematics.

1284
01:26:56,693 --> 01:26:59,213
Speaker 5: We may be wrong here, but from how he talked

1285
01:26:59,213 --> 01:27:02,933
Speaker 5: about AI, we formed the view he hasn't had hands

1286
01:27:02,973 --> 01:27:08,013
Speaker 5: on experience, so when he shares machine learning commentary it

1287
01:27:08,093 --> 01:27:11,773
Speaker 5: can feel a little light weight. It appears he hasn't

1288
01:27:11,813 --> 01:27:15,573
Speaker 5: yet had the chance to dig into feature engineering, data bias,

1289
01:27:15,933 --> 01:27:20,173
Speaker 5: or hyper parameter tuning, the real nuts and bolts practitioners

1290
01:27:20,253 --> 01:27:24,573
Speaker 5: work on every day. If you're after hands on insights

1291
01:27:24,613 --> 01:27:27,653
Speaker 5: on the subject of AI, you'd probably want to talk

1292
01:27:27,733 --> 01:27:31,053
Speaker 5: to people who have done it. You may want to

1293
01:27:31,173 --> 01:27:34,413
Speaker 5: explore further leyton Old chap as for the notion that

1294
01:27:34,533 --> 01:27:39,293
Speaker 5: AI could simply usher our MPs aside, Remember turkeys don't

1295
01:27:39,373 --> 01:27:45,693
Speaker 5: vote for Christmas, and Parliament is festooned with turkeys. I'm

1296
01:27:45,773 --> 01:27:49,853
Speaker 5: thinking primarily of the Green, Labor and Maori Party representatives

1297
01:27:50,253 --> 01:27:52,533
Speaker 5: without their buy in, handing over the running of the

1298
01:27:52,613 --> 01:27:55,333
Speaker 5: country and allowing AI to decide where to throw the

1299
01:27:55,453 --> 01:28:00,173
Speaker 5: money to remains more day dream than democratic strategy. There's

1300
01:28:00,253 --> 01:28:02,653
Speaker 5: no way they want to remove their snouts from that

1301
01:28:02,773 --> 01:28:07,653
Speaker 5: particular trough. Now, while we're thinking of about those impressive

1302
01:28:07,813 --> 01:28:11,173
Speaker 5: AI brains you hear about, you need to understand that

1303
01:28:11,213 --> 01:28:16,053
Speaker 5: they're really vast predictive text engines, adept at finishing your sentences,

1304
01:28:16,173 --> 01:28:20,293
Speaker 5: but lacking agency intent or the ability to plot a takeover.

1305
01:28:21,493 --> 01:28:25,293
Speaker 5: They match patterns using statistics. They don't march armies. As

1306
01:28:25,373 --> 01:28:29,973
Speaker 5: doctor Robinson says, matrices can't think, and AI or machine

1307
01:28:30,053 --> 01:28:35,293
Speaker 5: learning is just a massive pile of matrix mathematics. While

1308
01:28:35,293 --> 01:28:38,773
Speaker 5: we're at it, there was discussion about those little green

1309
01:28:38,893 --> 01:28:41,933
Speaker 5: men dropping in and hacking our AI. Let's pause on

1310
01:28:42,013 --> 01:28:47,453
Speaker 5: the tinfoil hats, the Fermi paradox, and the staggering energy

1311
01:28:47,573 --> 01:28:51,253
Speaker 5: needs of interstellar travel under our current physics suggest we're

1312
01:28:51,333 --> 01:28:55,533
Speaker 5: unlikely to see visitors anytime soon. It's a tough topic,

1313
01:28:55,973 --> 01:28:59,093
Speaker 5: and I'm not surprised the media sometimes fumbles the details

1314
01:28:59,133 --> 01:29:02,853
Speaker 5: and gets a bit excited. Wrestling with these cosmic questions

1315
01:29:02,973 --> 01:29:08,733
Speaker 5: calls for serious scientific muscle. Finally, if you'd like a

1316
01:29:08,853 --> 01:29:12,493
Speaker 5: gentle introduction to AI and machine learning, I refer you

1317
01:29:12,573 --> 01:29:15,853
Speaker 5: to podcast one hundred and eighty seven the difference between

1318
01:29:16,013 --> 01:29:20,973
Speaker 5: artificial intelligence and machine learning as an excellent starting point. Now,

1319
01:29:21,013 --> 01:29:23,373
Speaker 5: if you don't mind, we will now go back to

1320
01:29:23,453 --> 01:29:25,013
Speaker 5: shouting at our car stereos.

1321
01:29:33,253 --> 01:29:35,653
Speaker 2: Having heard that, let me digress just a moment. We

1322
01:29:36,813 --> 01:29:41,133
Speaker 2: had Brexit, we had Donald Trump, We've had other matters

1323
01:29:41,373 --> 01:29:46,373
Speaker 2: that have caused grief in relationships, broken marriages, broken relationships,

1324
01:29:46,533 --> 01:29:51,293
Speaker 2: people taking to other people physically literally. So I had

1325
01:29:51,373 --> 01:29:57,773
Speaker 2: this feeling that AI, particularly in its latest development, just

1326
01:29:57,973 --> 01:30:02,013
Speaker 2: could be the cause of other breakups. It's just a

1327
01:30:02,093 --> 01:30:07,693
Speaker 2: gut feel that people are taking sides, whether it's useless

1328
01:30:08,013 --> 01:30:11,453
Speaker 2: or with a it's positive, or whatever interpretation you want

1329
01:30:11,453 --> 01:30:15,253
Speaker 2: to put on it. So I say to what appeared

1330
01:30:15,253 --> 01:30:19,613
Speaker 2: to be opponents in this discussion that if this goes

1331
01:30:19,653 --> 01:30:22,733
Speaker 2: any further, I might have to pass on each of

1332
01:30:22,853 --> 01:30:26,893
Speaker 2: your contacts to the other parties, and you can skirmish

1333
01:30:27,373 --> 01:30:31,853
Speaker 2: all you want. In the meantime, I will await the

1334
01:30:31,933 --> 01:30:35,893
Speaker 2: feedback from those who have heard it but have no

1335
01:30:36,013 --> 01:30:39,293
Speaker 2: connection with it. So that will take us out for

1336
01:30:39,493 --> 01:30:43,013
Speaker 2: podcasts two hundred and ninety three. We will be here

1337
01:30:43,133 --> 01:30:46,933
Speaker 2: next week, after which we won't be here for a

1338
01:30:46,973 --> 01:30:51,933
Speaker 2: few weeks. But I've already got some podcast interviews in

1339
01:30:52,013 --> 01:30:55,053
Speaker 2: the can, and there'll be a couple two or three

1340
01:30:55,573 --> 01:30:58,613
Speaker 2: replays as well, So we're going to keep rolling. And

1341
01:31:00,133 --> 01:31:02,133
Speaker 2: one of the podcasts, because I mean asked by a

1342
01:31:02,213 --> 01:31:04,053
Speaker 2: number of people, are you going to do one from

1343
01:31:04,093 --> 01:31:08,093
Speaker 2: London with your son Kristen, and the answer is yes,

1344
01:31:08,373 --> 01:31:11,653
Speaker 2: it's already arranged. We might even do too if we

1345
01:31:11,733 --> 01:31:16,013
Speaker 2: can find proper cause. Anyway, we shall return next week

1346
01:31:16,093 --> 01:31:18,853
Speaker 2: for two ninety four. In the meantime, if you want

1347
01:31:18,853 --> 01:31:22,213
Speaker 2: to write to us, please do lately the NEWSTALKSB dot

1348
01:31:22,253 --> 01:31:24,733
Speaker 2: co dot inzid or Carolyn the News Talks that Be

1349
01:31:24,773 --> 01:31:28,013
Speaker 2: dot co dot inzet and as always, thank you so

1350
01:31:28,173 --> 01:31:30,133
Speaker 2: much for listening and we shall talk soon.

1351
01:31:37,933 --> 01:31:41,573
Speaker 1: Thank you for more from News Talks the' b. Listen

1352
01:31:41,653 --> 01:31:44,573
Speaker 1: live on air or online, and keep our shows with

1353
01:31:44,733 --> 01:31:47,853
Speaker 1: you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio