1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,547 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,827 Speaker 1: from Newstalk. 3 00:00:11,467 --> 00:00:17,267 Speaker 2: ZEDB twenty six. While overall participation remains fairly steady, many 4 00:00:17,307 --> 00:00:20,907 Speaker 2: clubs are struggling to find one very specific type of player. 5 00:00:21,347 --> 00:00:25,547 Speaker 2: Props and hookers are becoming harder to recruit and retain, 6 00:00:26,027 --> 00:00:29,707 Speaker 2: with some clubs warning the shortage of specialist front row 7 00:00:29,787 --> 00:00:34,667 Speaker 2: forwards is threatening their ability to field top teams. At 8 00:00:34,667 --> 00:00:36,427 Speaker 2: the same time, there's a push to make the game 9 00:00:36,467 --> 00:00:40,867 Speaker 2: more accessible, with some clubs even scrapping registration fees for 10 00:00:40,987 --> 00:00:45,907 Speaker 2: junior players to keep participation numbers strong. Mike Hester is 11 00:00:45,947 --> 00:00:49,867 Speaker 2: New Zealand Rugby's head of rugby participation and development. He 12 00:00:49,947 --> 00:00:52,067 Speaker 2: joins us now on Weekend Sport. Mike, thanks for your time. 13 00:00:52,347 --> 00:00:54,667 Speaker 2: Let's start with the first of those two things. How 14 00:00:54,707 --> 00:00:59,067 Speaker 2: concerned is New Zealand Rugby about reports that some clubs 15 00:00:59,387 --> 00:01:03,507 Speaker 2: are struggling to find enough specialist front rowers to field 16 00:01:03,587 --> 00:01:04,627 Speaker 2: in their premiere teams. 17 00:01:06,387 --> 00:01:10,347 Speaker 3: Thanks pining for having me on. In short, that this 18 00:01:10,467 --> 00:01:13,067 Speaker 3: is unfortunately not a new problem. It has been one 19 00:01:13,067 --> 00:01:15,587 Speaker 3: that we're sort of faced now for some years. But 20 00:01:15,867 --> 00:01:18,467 Speaker 3: this time of year is always a point where clubs 21 00:01:18,467 --> 00:01:21,987 Speaker 3: are heavily really invested in trying to find enough front rowers, 22 00:01:22,027 --> 00:01:24,227 Speaker 3: and they're obviously really key. We want to ensure that 23 00:01:24,547 --> 00:01:27,747 Speaker 3: games are played with contested scrums, and front rows are 24 00:01:27,867 --> 00:01:32,227 Speaker 3: essentral for that. But again, they are in short supply 25 00:01:32,347 --> 00:01:34,587 Speaker 3: and so there's been some real challenges for clubs trying 26 00:01:34,587 --> 00:01:36,707 Speaker 3: to find them, and we've been doing a bit of 27 00:01:36,707 --> 00:01:39,187 Speaker 3: work both in the short and the long term to 28 00:01:39,227 --> 00:01:40,267 Speaker 3: help address that. 29 00:01:40,587 --> 00:01:42,027 Speaker 2: Why are they in short supply? 30 00:01:43,747 --> 00:01:46,187 Speaker 3: It's a demanding position. I've never played in the front row, 31 00:01:46,227 --> 00:01:49,307 Speaker 3: but by many that have that, it's a very demanding 32 00:01:49,347 --> 00:01:52,987 Speaker 3: position and it's not everyone's cup of tea. You've got 33 00:01:53,027 --> 00:01:56,747 Speaker 3: to have a certain shape and build and attitude for it, 34 00:01:56,827 --> 00:02:01,027 Speaker 3: and we have probably not seen as many come through 35 00:02:01,587 --> 00:02:04,227 Speaker 3: sort of from out junior and teenage ranks as we 36 00:02:04,307 --> 00:02:08,147 Speaker 3: need to ensure that your clubs are full of options 37 00:02:08,187 --> 00:02:11,067 Speaker 3: to fillo those front rows at sort of every level. 38 00:02:11,667 --> 00:02:13,627 Speaker 3: So some of the long term workers around how do 39 00:02:13,667 --> 00:02:19,427 Speaker 3: we make front row positions more appealing, more accessible, more 40 00:02:19,547 --> 00:02:21,787 Speaker 3: enticing for those in the junior space, So trying to 41 00:02:21,787 --> 00:02:26,267 Speaker 3: broaden those that get exposed to front row experiences. We 42 00:02:26,307 --> 00:02:30,427 Speaker 3: know through teenage grades that we usually play with restricted 43 00:02:30,947 --> 00:02:34,627 Speaker 3: scrum push, and that's again just to try and alleviate 44 00:02:34,667 --> 00:02:36,947 Speaker 3: some of the challenge that goes with learning that technical 45 00:02:36,947 --> 00:02:40,267 Speaker 3: position under some pressure. So we know that that's been helpful, 46 00:02:40,267 --> 00:02:44,827 Speaker 3: but things like Scrum Factory and scrum programs are ones 47 00:02:44,827 --> 00:02:46,787 Speaker 3: that we need to continue to invest in to make 48 00:02:46,827 --> 00:02:49,587 Speaker 3: sure that we've got a good pipeline of kids that 49 00:02:49,627 --> 00:02:52,107 Speaker 3: have been exposed to front row experiences feel really confident 50 00:02:52,147 --> 00:02:55,307 Speaker 3: and confident and I will stay in the game sort 51 00:02:55,307 --> 00:02:57,587 Speaker 3: of beyond their teenage years and move into the senior 52 00:02:57,587 --> 00:02:59,867 Speaker 3: club rugby. So that's one of the things we're focused 53 00:02:59,907 --> 00:03:01,387 Speaker 3: on the sort of medium to short term to try 54 00:03:01,467 --> 00:03:07,187 Speaker 3: to dress the issue in the short term. What we 55 00:03:07,267 --> 00:03:09,827 Speaker 3: have done in recent years is we've tried to deregulate 56 00:03:10,347 --> 00:03:13,787 Speaker 3: impact of having a shortage of front rows, and that's 57 00:03:13,827 --> 00:03:16,267 Speaker 3: only a band aid solution to some somewhat, but it's 58 00:03:16,347 --> 00:03:19,907 Speaker 3: to try and prevent the absence of front rows having 59 00:03:19,907 --> 00:03:23,347 Speaker 3: a really differental impact on the experience for all. So 60 00:03:24,107 --> 00:03:26,947 Speaker 3: whilst we want to see contested scrums and premier grades 61 00:03:26,987 --> 00:03:31,107 Speaker 3: and official theme grades where it's not possible, we've deregulated 62 00:03:31,147 --> 00:03:34,467 Speaker 3: it so that games can still go ahead with uncontested scrums, 63 00:03:34,467 --> 00:03:37,307 Speaker 3: and there's more flexibility, so they're not so dependent on 64 00:03:37,787 --> 00:03:39,267 Speaker 3: having those numbers, as. 65 00:03:39,227 --> 00:03:41,987 Speaker 2: You say, to hidely specialized position and a physical position 66 00:03:42,307 --> 00:03:44,787 Speaker 2: and to you know, to become an effective front row 67 00:03:44,867 --> 00:03:46,707 Speaker 2: forward at whatever level you don't need to put a 68 00:03:46,707 --> 00:03:49,667 Speaker 2: bit of work into it. Are we possibly asking community 69 00:03:49,707 --> 00:03:53,107 Speaker 2: players to train and prepare like professionals when they simply 70 00:03:53,107 --> 00:03:56,307 Speaker 2: want to play a social game of rugby. 71 00:03:56,827 --> 00:04:00,867 Speaker 3: Yes, so, I guess the challenge of the game has 72 00:04:00,867 --> 00:04:03,267 Speaker 3: probably had for some time now is how much does 73 00:04:03,267 --> 00:04:07,547 Speaker 3: the community game mirror professional game, And where it's been appropriate, 74 00:04:07,627 --> 00:04:11,587 Speaker 3: there has been some variations now put in place just 75 00:04:11,627 --> 00:04:14,267 Speaker 3: to reflect the demands we really want to put on 76 00:04:14,347 --> 00:04:19,307 Speaker 3: the community participant, so luring tackle height, restricted scrum push 77 00:04:19,787 --> 00:04:23,587 Speaker 3: in some grades, moving to more flexible sort of formats. 78 00:04:23,787 --> 00:04:25,467 Speaker 3: They'ving sort of the things that we've put in place 79 00:04:25,507 --> 00:04:27,867 Speaker 3: which you never see in the professional game, but in 80 00:04:27,907 --> 00:04:30,107 Speaker 3: the community game. They make the experience a lot more 81 00:04:30,107 --> 00:04:35,307 Speaker 3: appealing and relevant and a more reflective of the capacity 82 00:04:35,347 --> 00:04:37,587 Speaker 3: of community players. We're only training once or twice a 83 00:04:37,587 --> 00:04:39,267 Speaker 3: week and playing on Saturday and need to go to 84 00:04:39,307 --> 00:04:42,227 Speaker 3: work on a Monday. The key to all of those 85 00:04:42,307 --> 00:04:44,587 Speaker 3: changes is trying to preserve the identities of the game 86 00:04:44,627 --> 00:04:48,507 Speaker 3: as much as possible, and then preserving the experience, recognizing 87 00:04:48,547 --> 00:04:52,107 Speaker 3: that some of these people are not wanting to participate 88 00:04:52,147 --> 00:04:55,427 Speaker 3: at a sort of high performance or professional level. They 89 00:04:55,427 --> 00:04:57,067 Speaker 3: simply want to enjoy their game, So how do we 90 00:04:57,107 --> 00:04:59,547 Speaker 3: make that experience as relevant as we can for them? 91 00:05:00,347 --> 00:05:02,587 Speaker 2: I wonder about perception as well, Mike, and I know 92 00:05:02,667 --> 00:05:04,827 Speaker 2: it's not really your level of the game, but I mean, 93 00:05:04,867 --> 00:05:07,187 Speaker 2: everybody wants to be Reuben Love and Jordan, don't they 94 00:05:07,187 --> 00:05:08,987 Speaker 2: Do we need more youngsters who want to be Ethan 95 00:05:09,027 --> 00:05:11,667 Speaker 2: de Groot and Tyrrel Lomax for example. 96 00:05:12,867 --> 00:05:15,827 Speaker 3: Well, we certainly need to promote the value of the 97 00:05:15,867 --> 00:05:20,707 Speaker 3: front row, and it's important. We certainly need to promote 98 00:05:20,707 --> 00:05:22,787 Speaker 3: all parts of the game. But that's certainly there's a 99 00:05:22,867 --> 00:05:24,747 Speaker 3: dark art from what I understand, to the front row, 100 00:05:24,787 --> 00:05:27,547 Speaker 3: and some may find that once they've become aware of that, 101 00:05:28,587 --> 00:05:32,267 Speaker 3: become quite attracted to it. Certainly, in the professional game, 102 00:05:32,547 --> 00:05:36,187 Speaker 3: those front row players are in really hot demand, and 103 00:05:36,387 --> 00:05:38,787 Speaker 3: in some cases just as much as the demand as 104 00:05:39,387 --> 00:05:41,747 Speaker 3: some of those more word of positions in the back line. 105 00:05:41,827 --> 00:05:45,067 Speaker 3: So there's there's certainly a lot of opportunity there for 106 00:05:45,147 --> 00:05:46,347 Speaker 3: the right kind of player. 107 00:05:46,467 --> 00:05:50,507 Speaker 2: How much is the underraty five kilogram initiative helped here 108 00:05:50,547 --> 00:05:54,867 Speaker 2: because obviously, as the way you know, restriction would decree, 109 00:05:54,867 --> 00:05:56,627 Speaker 2: you've got to be underraty five killers, so you don't 110 00:05:56,627 --> 00:05:59,027 Speaker 2: necessarily have to be a big bopper to be a 111 00:05:59,067 --> 00:06:01,307 Speaker 2: front row forward in that particular grade. 112 00:06:03,347 --> 00:06:08,187 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's been some challenges in ninety five grades 113 00:06:08,387 --> 00:06:10,427 Speaker 3: for some years, I imagine, in terms of making sure 114 00:06:10,427 --> 00:06:14,227 Speaker 3: that they have confident front rowers who can perform that 115 00:06:14,347 --> 00:06:18,587 Speaker 3: role with recognizing they are usually under eighty five KO. 116 00:06:18,667 --> 00:06:23,067 Speaker 3: But it has sort of a result in these sort 117 00:06:23,107 --> 00:06:25,227 Speaker 3: of characters emerging, and I've come across a few of 118 00:06:25,267 --> 00:06:28,827 Speaker 3: them who in another another day they definitely would have 119 00:06:28,907 --> 00:06:31,747 Speaker 3: been a contender to the premiere setup, but because of 120 00:06:31,827 --> 00:06:33,467 Speaker 3: side and the way the games play these days, they 121 00:06:33,467 --> 00:06:36,427 Speaker 3: don't get that chance, so they haven't maybe blossomed as 122 00:06:36,507 --> 00:06:38,707 Speaker 3: much as they could even therefore they've found their place 123 00:06:38,707 --> 00:06:42,587 Speaker 3: in eighty five's and being really successful there. So there's 124 00:06:42,627 --> 00:06:46,987 Speaker 3: a real wart of front row specialists and at their 125 00:06:47,227 --> 00:06:50,787 Speaker 3: plose eighty five s grades which really cherished the dark 126 00:06:50,907 --> 00:06:54,427 Speaker 3: arts of it, and just because of their side, that's 127 00:06:54,467 --> 00:06:57,347 Speaker 3: where they found their place, So there's certainly a place 128 00:06:58,147 --> 00:07:01,267 Speaker 3: for anyone across the game if you're interested in that way. 129 00:07:01,427 --> 00:07:03,747 Speaker 2: All right. The other topic I wanted to chat you 130 00:07:03,827 --> 00:07:07,467 Speaker 2: about was the accessibility of right Beat at all levels really, 131 00:07:07,507 --> 00:07:10,747 Speaker 2: but junior levels in particular, and we're seeing some clubs 132 00:07:10,787 --> 00:07:15,667 Speaker 2: waive their registration fees in particular for junior players. How 133 00:07:15,707 --> 00:07:19,867 Speaker 2: significant a barrier do you perceive cost to be to 134 00:07:20,067 --> 00:07:22,827 Speaker 2: modern day grassroots rugby participation. 135 00:07:25,107 --> 00:07:28,387 Speaker 3: Well, I think we're really fortunate in that not a 136 00:07:28,387 --> 00:07:34,187 Speaker 3: lot of cost in the game that has to be 137 00:07:34,227 --> 00:07:37,307 Speaker 3: passed on to participants. We're not a sport that has 138 00:07:37,347 --> 00:07:39,907 Speaker 3: sort of big affiliation fees flowing to the national body 139 00:07:40,027 --> 00:07:42,827 Speaker 3: or in the sort of minimal levels of affiliation fees 140 00:07:42,867 --> 00:07:45,387 Speaker 3: that are flying to the regional bodies, whereas other sports 141 00:07:45,467 --> 00:07:47,547 Speaker 3: unfortunately sort of need to charge those things to make 142 00:07:47,627 --> 00:07:54,307 Speaker 3: the sports viable. So really, clubs and schools really just 143 00:07:54,347 --> 00:07:56,307 Speaker 3: have to make sure they can cover their costs and 144 00:07:56,347 --> 00:08:00,307 Speaker 3: they're up to deliver a quality experience. So they've been 145 00:08:00,307 --> 00:08:04,347 Speaker 3: able to reduce those barriers of financial barriers, and it's 146 00:08:04,347 --> 00:08:06,987 Speaker 3: been great to see because we know that that makes 147 00:08:06,987 --> 00:08:10,747 Speaker 3: it a really good choice, particularly in current climate where 148 00:08:11,267 --> 00:08:14,347 Speaker 3: money is type everyone. My own son plays in a 149 00:08:14,507 --> 00:08:18,547 Speaker 3: club in Counties which has been the beneficiary of zero 150 00:08:18,587 --> 00:08:24,067 Speaker 3: fees for the last few years, and so a number 151 00:08:24,107 --> 00:08:25,987 Speaker 3: of the families that are involved in our team I 152 00:08:26,027 --> 00:08:27,547 Speaker 3: know that there has been a sort of real point 153 00:08:27,547 --> 00:08:29,667 Speaker 3: of difference to them is about to excess sport and 154 00:08:29,707 --> 00:08:31,507 Speaker 3: so that the club has been able to offer that, 155 00:08:32,107 --> 00:08:35,187 Speaker 3: there's been tremendous and that obviously been some stories about 156 00:08:35,187 --> 00:08:37,427 Speaker 3: how that's been supported by the Silverlid investment and how 157 00:08:37,507 --> 00:08:40,107 Speaker 3: counties have applied that in their province and we've seen 158 00:08:40,227 --> 00:08:43,707 Speaker 3: some other examples of that across the country. So any 159 00:08:43,747 --> 00:08:47,467 Speaker 3: barrier you can reduce to is always can result in 160 00:08:47,787 --> 00:08:51,747 Speaker 3: better access to participation and so we can reduce financial areas. 161 00:08:51,747 --> 00:08:52,667 Speaker 3: That's great to see. 162 00:08:53,627 --> 00:08:56,867 Speaker 2: I mean, it's important, isn't it, Mike, that rugby remains accessible. 163 00:08:57,387 --> 00:08:59,707 Speaker 2: You know, a lot of families are facing cost pressures. 164 00:09:00,027 --> 00:09:03,227 Speaker 2: You know, this isn't a surprise to anybody listening that 165 00:09:03,267 --> 00:09:07,267 Speaker 2: there is pressure on household budgets. How important is it 166 00:09:07,267 --> 00:09:08,987 Speaker 2: to the sport of rugby and what it means to 167 00:09:09,027 --> 00:09:11,667 Speaker 2: New Zealand does that it remains accessible as much as 168 00:09:11,667 --> 00:09:14,947 Speaker 2: it possibly can be for grassroots participants. 169 00:09:16,987 --> 00:09:19,067 Speaker 3: This is part of sort of rugby's values about it 170 00:09:19,107 --> 00:09:22,867 Speaker 3: being a game for everybody and for every shape, and 171 00:09:22,947 --> 00:09:26,707 Speaker 3: so you look true to those values, and particularly in 172 00:09:26,747 --> 00:09:29,147 Speaker 3: the New Zealand context where we want everybody to have 173 00:09:29,227 --> 00:09:31,827 Speaker 3: access to the game, you know, it's critical that we 174 00:09:31,907 --> 00:09:36,627 Speaker 3: just have as fewer barriers as possible. So we want 175 00:09:36,627 --> 00:09:39,907 Speaker 3: the game to thrive, We want to reduce barriers. If 176 00:09:39,907 --> 00:09:42,307 Speaker 3: financial is one of them, then more we can do 177 00:09:42,387 --> 00:09:44,707 Speaker 3: to reduce that the better because then it means that 178 00:09:44,707 --> 00:09:46,627 Speaker 3: everybody has the ability to access the game. 179 00:09:47,107 --> 00:09:51,467 Speaker 2: Do you think rugby still feels like a game for everybody? 180 00:09:53,507 --> 00:09:58,907 Speaker 3: Certainly the certainly the desire from from a national perspective, 181 00:09:59,147 --> 00:10:02,387 Speaker 3: and what we've seen is you know, owing interest and 182 00:10:02,547 --> 00:10:05,747 Speaker 3: accessing different parts of the game. So obviously, for a 183 00:10:05,827 --> 00:10:08,347 Speaker 3: very long time, you know, we've been very much a 184 00:10:08,467 --> 00:10:14,187 Speaker 3: contact sport, you know, from underrates onwards. Not many variations 185 00:10:14,187 --> 00:10:16,627 Speaker 3: on that. But what we've seen in recent years is 186 00:10:16,667 --> 00:10:19,187 Speaker 3: that we've seen the growth of non contact rugby, as 187 00:10:19,227 --> 00:10:21,667 Speaker 3: a woman in particular sort of flocking to that. We've 188 00:10:21,667 --> 00:10:24,507 Speaker 3: seen eighty five sort of going through some re emergence 189 00:10:25,467 --> 00:10:29,107 Speaker 3: as we've tried to support those grades, and obviously the 190 00:10:29,347 --> 00:10:31,107 Speaker 3: national team now and it's the way to Shrilanka for 191 00:10:31,147 --> 00:10:34,907 Speaker 3: the second year in a row, which is really encouraging. 192 00:10:34,907 --> 00:10:39,267 Speaker 3: We've seen the movements of Maori and Partifica programs of 193 00:10:39,347 --> 00:10:43,267 Speaker 3: which have generated more interests and participating through those identities. 194 00:10:43,987 --> 00:10:47,067 Speaker 3: So you know, these are things that are all sort 195 00:10:47,067 --> 00:10:49,747 Speaker 3: of you know, great hope, the fact that you know 196 00:10:50,107 --> 00:10:53,187 Speaker 3: we're providing more opportunities for people to participate, and therese 197 00:10:53,187 --> 00:10:54,947 Speaker 3: are a few other things that you know, we tend 198 00:10:54,947 --> 00:10:59,027 Speaker 3: to explore, particularly with those with disability, how they can 199 00:10:59,067 --> 00:11:02,267 Speaker 3: access the game. So we've got a really wrong a 200 00:11:02,347 --> 00:11:04,947 Speaker 3: partnership since Rugby which works with a lot of kids 201 00:11:04,947 --> 00:11:08,867 Speaker 3: with invisible disability giving them a Rugby experience. So there's 202 00:11:08,867 --> 00:11:13,747 Speaker 3: certainly lots of room for improvement an opportunity. But what 203 00:11:13,827 --> 00:11:16,107 Speaker 3: we're seeing is a rather different ways in which people 204 00:11:16,147 --> 00:11:18,027 Speaker 3: are engaged in games. That's really encouraging to see. 205 00:11:18,147 --> 00:11:20,067 Speaker 2: All right, Mike, appreciate you taking the time for a 206 00:11:20,147 --> 00:11:22,947 Speaker 2: chat mate. That's Mike Hester, New Zealand Rugby's head of 207 00:11:23,027 --> 00:11:29,067 Speaker 2: Rugby Participation and Development front Row Forwards. Are they becoming 208 00:11:29,347 --> 00:11:34,547 Speaker 2: an endangered species or certainly a rare commodity in clubland? 209 00:11:34,667 --> 00:11:37,747 Speaker 2: As Mike said, this isn't a new problem. I've heard 210 00:11:37,747 --> 00:11:41,067 Speaker 2: of this a lot where I live in Wellington. You 211 00:11:41,227 --> 00:11:45,827 Speaker 2: often hear these stories coming out of clubs, not necessarily 212 00:11:45,867 --> 00:11:48,227 Speaker 2: their prem side, but the one below their prem side, 213 00:11:48,227 --> 00:11:50,907 Speaker 2: PREMI reserve, whatever you want to call it, having real 214 00:11:50,987 --> 00:11:55,227 Speaker 2: trouble having enough front row forwards because you need five 215 00:11:56,187 --> 00:11:59,067 Speaker 2: on the team sheet. You need a starting tight head, 216 00:11:59,187 --> 00:12:01,947 Speaker 2: blues head and hooker and two others on the bench 217 00:12:03,187 --> 00:12:05,707 Speaker 2: in terms of the regulations for most provincial unions, and 218 00:12:05,747 --> 00:12:08,547 Speaker 2: I can only issues this is around the country as well. 219 00:12:08,547 --> 00:12:10,947 Speaker 2: So you need five guys who can play in the 220 00:12:10,987 --> 00:12:14,187 Speaker 2: front row, and then then you've got to need another 221 00:12:14,227 --> 00:12:16,027 Speaker 2: five for your premi reserve side, and so on and 222 00:12:16,027 --> 00:12:23,307 Speaker 2: so on. So highly specialized position, physically taxing, not particularly 223 00:12:23,347 --> 00:12:28,547 Speaker 2: glamorous and even perhaps considered a little bit dangerous neck 224 00:12:28,587 --> 00:12:32,547 Speaker 2: injuries and such like. If you played in the front row, 225 00:12:33,307 --> 00:12:36,427 Speaker 2: or still do play in the front row, what is 226 00:12:36,427 --> 00:12:39,587 Speaker 2: it about the position that you like or liked? What 227 00:12:39,707 --> 00:12:43,947 Speaker 2: attracted you to it, how did you find it? And 228 00:12:44,667 --> 00:12:47,067 Speaker 2: if this is resonating with you as someone involved in 229 00:12:47,107 --> 00:12:50,027 Speaker 2: club footy, I would love to hear from you tell 230 00:12:50,067 --> 00:12:53,987 Speaker 2: us how you're addressing it. How are you how are you, 231 00:12:53,987 --> 00:12:57,467 Speaker 2: you know, negotiating your way through a scenario under which 232 00:12:57,787 --> 00:13:01,107 Speaker 2: you don't have enough blokes to play these positions. 233 00:13:01,987 --> 00:13:05,147 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 234 00:13:05,267 --> 00:13:08,547 Speaker 1: to News Talk said B weekends from midday, or follow 235 00:13:08,587 --> 00:13:10,187 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio