1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,200 Speaker 1: Back to the Phillips case. Phillip's dead, of course, the 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: officer remains in the hospital, the children recovered. So what 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: happens now. Mark Mitchell's the police minister and as well 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: as Mark, good morning. 5 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 2: Good morning, Mike. 6 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: So your thoughts on yesterday and more broadly, your thoughts 7 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: on the last four years. 8 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, obviously an awful situation to everyone involved. 9 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 2: We've got a police officer that was critically injured thankfully 10 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 2: has come through a surgeries yesterday quite well. Myself and 11 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: the Commissioner are driving down there shortly to go him 12 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: and his family. You know, I think everyone could see, Mike, 13 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 2: just how difficult the situation was for police to deal with. 14 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 2: It's almost the worst case scenario when you've got a 15 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: father with three children deep in the bush with firearms, 16 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 2: high powered firearms, unpredictable and likely to use them. And 17 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: so you know, in some ways, although it was an 18 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: absolute tragedy yesterday, obviously, recovering the children and having them 19 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: now safely and I rang a Tomrick and extended family here, 20 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: you know, is a good thing. 21 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: Did it need to go as long as it did? 22 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 2: Well, like I said, it was you look at the 23 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: complexity of the situation they're dealing with. I've been the 24 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 2: policemanister now for over eighteen months. I've spoken with and 25 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: visited several of the officers that have been on prolonged operations, 26 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: that have been investigating and have been working hard to 27 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: try and recover those children safely, and they were confronted 28 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: with almost an impossible situation. We've got a very unpredictable, 29 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: you know, father with high powered firearms, likely to use them, 30 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 2: and they don't want to create a tragedy. And that 31 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: is all of us. I think every key we would fear, 32 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: certainly my fear as the minister, you know, losing those children. 33 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 2: You know, the focus was always on the safe recovery 34 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: of the children and it was just a very very 35 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: difficult situation for them to deal with. They three resources 36 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: at it. They were relentless in the way that they 37 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: approached it and trying to recover them, but always they 38 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: understood that it was a very dangerous situation to go 39 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: into and it was and they were going to try 40 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: and avoid it all costs, putting those children in harm's way. 41 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: Did you have intel on that, Did you have a 42 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: genuine knowledge based belief that he was capable of harming 43 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: his own children. 44 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know about I can't answer that I 45 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 2: was in the detail in terms of the riskst analysis 46 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 2: that would have been done around him and whether or 47 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: not he was capable of harming his own children. I 48 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: do know this that he is the suspect for some 49 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 2: serious violent offending over the period that he's had them, 50 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 2: and he's included those children in that offending, and no 51 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: responsible father would ever put their children in harm's way, 52 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 2: and he did that. 53 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: The because what I'm trying to suppose her to a 54 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: degree doesn't really matter now. But what I'm trying to 55 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: work out is, did you guys or did the police 56 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: know ish where he was and if they'd worked a 57 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: bit harder they could have found him sooner or was 58 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: that not really the emphasis? The emphasis was we don't 59 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: want the kids harnded. 60 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: The emphasis was we don't want the kids armed. And so, 61 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: you know, the police of very good, they're very efficient, 62 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: they've got lots of tools, they've got very deep capability, 63 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: they can find people. But it's a big complicating factor 64 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: when you've got young children in a situation with high 65 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: powered firearms and a very unpredictable father and not knowing 66 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: you know, exactly how he's going to react and respond. 67 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: That was definitely my fears as police minister, without a doubt, 68 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: averting a tragedy. Unfortunately, mister Phillips has been killed. He's 69 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: been killed because he used he showed that he would 70 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: use those firearms and we now have a police officer 71 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: that's critically injured line in the hospital because you know, 72 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 2: Phillips tried to kill him. 73 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: Speaking of that, I asked Chambers, that's the same question 74 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: that I'm interested in your view. Why does an officer 75 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: go out in remote New Zealand in these specific circumstances 76 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: knowing that a burglary chances are it's you know who. 77 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: Why is he out there by himself with backup coming? 78 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: I know, but he was still out there by himself. 79 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 2: Well, that is operational. I do leave the commissioner to 80 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 2: speak with that. But why do police officers take risks? 81 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: Because because they take their jobs very seriously and they're 82 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: willing to themselves at risk to protect the communities that 83 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: they serve. And I'm extremely proud of them. The officers 84 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: that responded to that, in my view, are very courageous 85 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: and the way that they dealt with it, you know, 86 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: And that is the nature of policing. And I get 87 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: to see and hear about tens of thousands of positive 88 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: actions that our police officers take every week in the 89 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: service of the protection of the communities that they serve. 90 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 2: So you know, from what I understand talking with the commissioner, 91 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: there were more than there was more than one police 92 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 2: officer there, and obviously you can see that there was 93 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: a very firm, direct and immediate response from police in 94 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: terms of dealing with that threat against the officer that 95 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 2: had already been shot. 96 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: The Obviously there are questions out of all of this, 97 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: and there are debriefs, and I get all of that, 98 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: But beyond the standard, does this present a bunch of 99 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: unusual questions that might provide some unusual answers and the 100 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: police need to be looking at the way they do things. 101 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: Or are you comfortable as you sit here talking to 102 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: me this morning that things have gone as well as 103 00:04:59,160 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: they could have. 104 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 2: I'm very comfortable since I've become police Minister, that they 105 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 2: have tried everything and they've done all that they could 106 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: to try and recover those children safely. Like any good organization, 107 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: the police are constantly looking for improvement. They will review 108 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: everything that's happened. There will be significant after action reviews. 109 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: I know how the police operate. Of course, there's some 110 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 2: inquiries that are immediately spark There'll be an internal police inquiry, 111 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: there'll be an IBC inquiry, and it's a coroner's case 112 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: as well. But am I comfortable that the police have 113 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: absolutely done everything that they could that they have made 114 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 2: sure that at the center of everything that they've done, 115 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: in the decisions that they've made, have put the children 116 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 2: in their safety at the heart of that. And I 117 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 2: think we all saw in the last twenty four hours 118 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: it all highlighted just how difficult the situation was for 119 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 2: police to manage. 120 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm drawing too many dot joining 121 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: too many dots here, but you happen to be in 122 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: Melbourne with Chambers at the funeral of a couple of 123 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: slain police officers for yet another nutter that's still looking 124 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: for in Victoria. Is there's nothing going on here where 125 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: we are seeing more and more men with guns going 126 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: rogue and it's a thing. 127 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 2: So that's something that we'll be to I have a 128 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: Police Council meeting in Canberra early next month that's something 129 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: that's on the agenda to discuss. Obviously, the situation in 130 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 2: Victoria is tragic. We're at both the Commission and I 131 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: are at the service of Neil Thompson, a thirty nine 132 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 2: year veteran that was literally days away from from retiring 133 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: and was killed by a person that caused himself a 134 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: sovereign citizen. So you know, there's still a large police 135 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 2: operation of man hunt underway there to try and find him. 136 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 2: But you know, the issue that you raised is something 137 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 2: that we'll be talking about further, without a doubt. 138 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: Do you have a view on the community, because when 139 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: there's the local community here, I'm talking about the number 140 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: of people who defended this guy, and men in the 141 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: country go bush with guns and they take their kids 142 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: and that's just life. And we in the city don't 143 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: have a clue what's going on. And that's still that 144 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: view still pervades. Is that abnormal? 145 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 2: Well, you and I fathers and I don't think that 146 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 2: you or I would take our children away from their 147 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: broader support networks, away from their friends, family, put them 148 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: and take them out with serious violent offending, put them 149 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: at harms and harm's way, you know, and shoot police officers. 150 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: So you know, I don't really understand why people are 151 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 2: holding this guy up as a as a pillar of 152 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 2: society and someone that should be admired. A quick complete opposite. 153 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: He's shot one of our police officers. Probably very very 154 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: lucky that police officer alive and that police officers out 155 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 2: there putting himself in harm's way to protect the community 156 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: that he serves. 157 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: All right, mate, I'll let you get on with you day. 158 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: Appreciate it pretty much. Make Machure police minister with us 159 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: this morning. 160 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: For more from the Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to 161 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: news talks they'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 162 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.