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Speaker 1: Even as you've heard the pipe. Francis died last night

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Speaker 1: our time. He was eighty eight. Is recent health battles

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Speaker 1: well documented, but he was out and about over the

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Speaker 1: Eastern weekend. He met with, among others, the US Vice President.

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Speaker 1: Of course, in the last couple of days that it

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Speaker 1: can correspond ed. Would Penton is whether said very good

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Speaker 1: morning to you?

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Speaker 2: Good morning.

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Speaker 1: Can we describe this as a surprise given we have

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Speaker 1: seen him out and active.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was a surprise because obviously we just saw

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Speaker 2: him yesterday, as you say, he met jd Vance, the

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Speaker 2: Vice President and the US and delivered well he didn't

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Speaker 2: delivered albi at AUBI, but he did greet the pilgrims.

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Speaker 2: So yes, we thought he was he was sort of okay.

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Speaker 2: But in the end, at the same time, it wasn't

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Speaker 2: a surprise because we know that he's been failing quite

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Speaker 2: considerably since well since his operation back in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 2: but certainly in the past a couple of months, since

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Speaker 2: he was hospitalized for several weeks.

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Speaker 1: How was the new shared and received in your part

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Speaker 1: of the world in Rome, well.

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Speaker 2: A lot of sadness. Of course, the church now undergoes

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Speaker 2: a few days of mourning, official mourning, and the death

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Speaker 2: of a pope is always a sad moment for the faithful,

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Speaker 2: but they will soon be the funeral. The funeral is

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Speaker 2: expected to be probably on Saturday, and then the General Congregations,

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Speaker 2: which is when the cardinals get together to discuss the

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Speaker 2: priorities of the church, that begins probably on Monday, and

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Speaker 2: then we'll have probably the beginning of the Conclave the

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Speaker 2: following week.

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Speaker 1: His reputation and legacy, what are they saying, Well, I.

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Speaker 2: Think it's very much a mixed one. I think the

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Speaker 2: general consensus is that he tried very hard to open

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Speaker 2: the church's doors to the people who probably wouldn't otherwise

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Speaker 2: look at the church, and try to make the church

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Speaker 2: attractive to those who simply would never give the church

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Speaker 2: a second glance. I think that was his great mission,

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Speaker 2: as it were, He was a great He really wanted

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Speaker 2: to evangeli and bring the Church's message to those people.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, he was seen very much also

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Speaker 2: within the church as a divisive pope. I think he

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Speaker 2: caused a lot of concerns because he he didn't actually

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Speaker 2: bring along many of the faithful along with him as

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Speaker 2: part of this mission, and in fact, he alienated many

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Speaker 2: of those who on the traditional orthodox side of the

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Speaker 2: church and didn't really manage to bring them along with him.

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Speaker 2: So there was a great sort of division there between

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Speaker 2: between those who were pushing for these reforms that he

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Speaker 2: was wanting to do and those who were trying to

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Speaker 2: keep him more grounded in doctrine and the traditions of

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Speaker 2: the faith.

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Speaker 1: From what I can gather, there is no stand out

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Speaker 1: candidate going forward. Is that a fear assessment or not?

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Speaker 2: Sorry? No? What again?

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Speaker 1: No stand out candidate? In other words, when they go

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Speaker 1: to vote, there's no hobbies.

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Speaker 2: No, that's true, and I think this is going to

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Speaker 2: be one of the most interesting conclaves in recent history

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Speaker 2: because there there is no single candidate that the Pope

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Speaker 2: has chosen many. He chose many candidates from the developing world,

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Speaker 2: from the global South, who aren't known at all very well,

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Speaker 2: and usually from sees that aren't usually episcopates, so cardinalationial

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Speaker 2: sees rather, so he's chosen a wide variety of cardinals

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Speaker 2: who I think will be which make it very difficult

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Speaker 2: to predict who could be elected the next pope. On

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Speaker 2: the other hand, there are certain candidates who are leading

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Speaker 2: the way. I've been part of a project called the

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Speaker 2: College of Cardinals report dot com, which you can see

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Speaker 2: where you can see all the cardinals and all their profiles,

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Speaker 2: and you can see which ones are leading and which

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Speaker 2: ones are considered to be probably more bigger contenders than

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Speaker 2: the others.

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Speaker 1: All Right, we'll go there, and I appreciate your insight

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Speaker 1: very much. Edward Pinton, who's Vedican correspond National Catholic registered.

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