1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Entrepreneur Andrew Barnes says Auckland's CBD needs a dramatic makeover. 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: He's come up with a list of ideas to help 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: revitalize Auckland's central city and publish them in and op 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: in the Herold. And Andrew is with us this evening. 5 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: Kildo Andrew Cira Jack. How are you. 6 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: I'm very well, thank you. So let's start off with 7 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: the problem diagnosis. What is the problem with auckland CBD. 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 2: Well, Auckland's CBD is not really as thriving as it 9 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: should be. There are lots of empty shops, the style 10 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,159 Speaker 2: of those shops are not necessarily as good as you 11 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 2: might be. There aren't as many cafes, a lot of 12 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 2: them have closed, and it really isn't that attractive a 13 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: place to go and visit anymore. 14 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: I reckon it's better than it was a few years ago. 15 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: Do you agree with that? 16 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 2: Oh, it's better than it was a few years ago. 17 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: But yeah, it certainly is not. 18 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: It's not a huge dramatic difference. Yeah, yeah, no, I 19 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: get I get that. So if it's feeling a bit tired, 20 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: what do you think is at the core of improving 21 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: the CBD. 22 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: Well, it's this little bit chicken and egg. I think 23 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: one of the problems is that we're not getting the 24 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 2: number of people coming into the city anymore. Now. That's 25 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: primarily because you've got things like working from home. You've 26 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: got people who have repositioned where their businesses are. So 27 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: if you have a look in the CBD, there are 28 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: a lot of empty office blocks. So because we haven't 29 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 2: got the people coming in, that means that they're not shopping, 30 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 2: they're not attending the cafes, and so the problem is 31 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 2: lack of population now. And this of course is where 32 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 2: its advocates think that the CRL will probably help us well. 33 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: I mean, theoretically that should bring teams of thousands of 34 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: people into the CBD that have of course assumes that 35 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: they work in the CBD. And the point you've maid 36 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: the healer is that actually having people living in the 37 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: CBD would mean that the demand for detail and hospitality 38 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: was there on the ground already. 39 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: That's right. So what we've done is we've built because 40 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 2: we hand effectively a lot of the decisions about how 41 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 2: our city operates. In the day to the late lamented 42 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,959 Speaker 2: Auckland transport that was all about moving people around. It 43 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: wasn't about why they came in. So if we're building 44 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: something to bring people into the CBD, we have to 45 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: ask the question is why are they making the trip. 46 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: If they're not coming in to work, they've got to 47 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 2: come in for leisure. So your choices either, you know, 48 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: bring more bring more people into the CBD by building 49 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: the things that they want to come and see, or alternatively, 50 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: have the people lived there already. 51 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: And so one of the suggestions you've made is that 52 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: we have a big showcase attraction. You look at the 53 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: likes of Mona and Tasmania for example, like an art 54 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: gallery of true Internet all esteem and a claim that 55 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: people travel from around the world to come and see 56 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: something like that in Central Auckland. But what might be 57 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: some other options for getting people to live in the CBD. 58 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: Are the policy changes we could make that might intensify 59 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: some of the apartment blocks and things. 60 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think there is. I think you could 61 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: look at the underutilized office box. I actually have an 62 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: apartment in the center of CBD on top of an 63 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: office block where I think there are two floors of 64 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: that office block that have people in the offices. If 65 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: you could actually then encourage people to develop those buildings. 66 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: You've seen it with the cab building for example in 67 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 2: to Earth Square. If you can actually convert those two apartments, 68 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: you could actually do that of two types, one more 69 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: luxury ones if you want, but actually more affordable housing. 70 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: So what we're doing is creating intensive housing in the 71 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 2: burbs to and then hoping to move Pece to the center. 72 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: Why don't we just build them in the center. Yeah? Right? 73 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: And again one of your suggestions, and this might be 74 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: a bit controversial, is that councils have a user or 75 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: lose it law, So basically they can put a bit 76 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: of pressure on developers not just to land bank and 77 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 1: sit on empty your underused properties, but do we actually 78 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: get moving? 79 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: Well, that's right. I think the Herald a few weeks 80 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: ago that someone went around and counting them. I think 81 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 2: there are fourteen in the center. But you think about 82 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: how many development sites that have been left for years 83 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 2: because we've not been able to find a way to 84 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: utilize these things. Because actually the natural solution is to 85 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: build an office block. But if you don't need an 86 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: office block, think about something else. 87 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: Yeah right. How do you think developers would react to that? 88 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 2: I sort of don't care. I mean, at the end 89 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: of the day, land banking doesn't help the city, but 90 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: it means if they can't think of a suitable way 91 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: you utilize the property, then maybe they might sell it 92 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 2: to somebody who wants to get on and do it. 93 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: What I was suggesting in the article was a simple 94 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: thing that, by the way, that if you do have 95 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 2: a development, so you've got to turn it into a 96 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 2: proper park for the intervening period rather than another car 97 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: park or just an area of Tarmact wasteland. 98 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I like that idea in theory. You know, 99 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: if it would mean more public space, it would make 100 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: it presumably more attractive for the people who do live 101 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: in the CBD. And what would what would be the 102 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: requirements of those public parks? Do you think in green space? 103 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm thinking green space and let's face it, this 104 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 2: time with real grass rather than I think we've built 105 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 2: a few of these parks. Certainly the one at the 106 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 2: bottom end of Queen Street across from us it's got 107 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: you know, plastic grass. It's very enticing. Yeah. 108 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: When do you make of the decisions that counsel and 109 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: organ transportant policy makers have made when it comes to 110 00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: cars and the CBD. 111 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 2: Look, at the end of the day, the difficulty is 112 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: if you don't if you don't have solutions. And I 113 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: think the recent situation with the concerts at Mount Smart 114 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: where you know there is no public transport really available 115 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: to move people around. So I can understand this argument. 116 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 2: Let us build public transport and then we make it 117 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 2: easier for people to move around. But the problem is 118 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 2: on public transport doesn't really work and it doesn't really 119 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: go to the places that we want. Classic one was 120 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 2: that concert you could get into the CBD, but nobody 121 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 2: thought to connect the buses from the stadium with buses 122 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: going to the North Shore. So until you actually have 123 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: a comprehensive solution at the end of the day, Auckland 124 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: is a city that needs cars. 125 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And would you say that the balance 126 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: has shifted in favor of pedestrians and cyclists too much 127 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: in the CBD. 128 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: I think it's shifted, yeah, too much. One of the difficulties, 129 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 2: and you can see it in the CRL paper. You 130 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 2: could see it also in the one that they did 131 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 2: on cycle ways that the council comes up or Open 132 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: Transport came up with these fantastic things. I mean this 133 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: one has got you know the number of benefits that 134 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: will accrue to Auckland as my particular favorite is one 135 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 2: point six billion in reliability benefits. So you're saying that, actually, 136 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: if you just make the buses run and time on 137 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 2: the trains roping time, we'd have actually picked up one 138 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: point six billion without building a CRL. That's the problem. 139 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 2: A lot of this is fabricated numbers. What we actually 140 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: need is real world's policies to understand how you bring 141 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: people into a city, how you make them over around, 142 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: not just simply playing to ideology. 143 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, very interesting. Hey, thanks to Andrew. We always appreciate 144 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: the way you consider these problems and appreciate your thoughts. 145 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: This evening. That is Andrew Barnes. For more from Hither 146 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to news talks it'd be 147 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.