1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: The government's cracking down on criminal migrants and refugees applying 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: here there is a catch. Missed your biometrics appointment and 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: your claim could be canceled. Simon larent Is, immigration lawyer, 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: chairman of New Zealand Association of Migration and Investment, joins 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: me this morning. Simon, good morning, good morning. Good to 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: have you on the show. Overall, these changes are hard 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: to argue with, aren't they. 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 2: Well, if someone doesn't turn up to an appointment, does 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 2: that mean they get thrown out of the country. It 10 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: seems a little bit stark if that's what in fact 11 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 2: the paper proposes. The thing is that someone has made 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 2: a valid claim for asylum. Well a claim for asylum. 13 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: Whether it's valid or not is another matter, but that's 14 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: the point. It hasn't yet been decided prior to them 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: even turning up for the appointment to have that tested. 16 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: They're supposed to go to another appointment in order to 17 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 2: carry out the biometrics. If they don't show up for that, 18 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,319 Speaker 2: on the face of it appears that means that their 19 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 2: claim is going to get thrown out. What it used 20 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 2: to be was that when biometrics are brought in, is 21 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 2: that those biometric readings were taken on the day of 22 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 2: the appointment the person was supposed to go in for, 23 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: so it could all be dealt with at once. For 24 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: administrative reasons or efficiencies, it was decided to split those 25 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: out so that the biometric appointment will be first. The 26 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: problem is it was meant to happen. It was required 27 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: to take place very shortly after the person had filed 28 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: their claim, which might be shortly after they've come into 29 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: the country. They're new to the system here, they may 30 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 2: not even know where the office is that they're supposed 31 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: to go to, and they may and probably don't speak 32 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: English very well. So there's a number of reasons why 33 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: this could be really a problem for people to actually 34 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 2: meet that requirement right right at the get go. 35 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: Okay fair, So maybe there's a tweak that can be 36 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: made if that seems like it's a little unjust. But 37 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: the fact that there are murderers and sex offenders convicted 38 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: in News Zealand among current asylum claimants that's got to 39 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: be cleaned up, didn't it. 40 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: Well, it actually still can be. I'm not quite clear 41 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 2: because I haven't seen the paper. What was really intended 42 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: here at the present. The exclusion clause of the Refugee 43 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: Convention says that you can only exclude someone from refugee 44 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 2: recognition if they've committed the crime overseas, and this is 45 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: extending it to New Zealand. Yep, Okay, that on a 46 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: face of it sounds pretty good. But the point is 47 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 2: New Zealand is a signatory to a convention that's been 48 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 2: around for seventy five years, and essentially this is a 49 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: seeking to change this convention which we signed up for. 50 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: I'm a bit concerned that we're seeking to cherry pick through. 51 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 1: Who cares what we've signed. If you've got refugee claims 52 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: from people who have been convicted of serious offenses in 53 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: New Zealand, and you can't consider those serious offenses when 54 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: you're try to determine whether they should get refugee status. 55 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 1: That's wrong, isn't it. 56 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: Well, it would be wrong if there was no other 57 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: means to deal with them. The fact is that there 58 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: is also Article thirty three of the Convention, which allows 59 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 2: e nation to expel someone if they've committed a serious 60 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: crime that poses a risk national security or a threat 61 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 2: to the community. And the sort of offenses that the 62 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: ministers referred to are those So why not use that right? 63 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: But then you'd have to go through the process of 64 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: accepting them as refugees and then booting them out, would you? 65 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: Why not? 66 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: Whether that's useless? 67 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: Why not? 68 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: I mean, do you see what I'm saying? But this 69 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: is far more efficient. We're going to get rid of 70 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: them anyway. 71 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: What if they've got a valid claim for recognition of 72 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: facing a threat of serious harm which could include death, 73 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: and they've come here committed it. If they've come here 74 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: to cause death, maybe there's a justification, but it doesn't 75 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: We're not clear how serious is serious. If they've committed 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: a burglary, it sounds like they might actually face expulsion, 77 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: exclusion from refugee recognition. And the point is that recognition 78 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 2: of refugee status, as I say, something we've actually signed 79 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: up to as an international citizen. We don't just throw 80 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 2: that away or try to get around it. 81 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: Simon. I appreciate your time this morning. Thanks very much 82 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: for being with me, Simon Levent immigration lawyer. For more 83 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 1: FAM Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live to news talks. 84 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: It'd be from five am weekdays, or follow the podcast 85 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.