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Speaker 1: Zi be.

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Speaker 2: Okay, We've had another damning report into our child protection system.

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Speaker 2: This one's from the Independent Children's Monitor and they've looked

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Speaker 2: at the movement in the system since totaling a five

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Speaker 2: year old Malachi Shubch was murdered by his care and

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Speaker 2: now that happened three years ago. This report has found

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Speaker 2: absolutely no subsequent recommendations have been implemented by the children's

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Speaker 2: agencies and Orang Tamariki, and Orang Tamariki is being forced

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Speaker 2: to make decisions on staff availability rather than prioritizing at

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Speaker 2: child safety. So Aaron Jones is the chief executive at

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Speaker 2: the Independent Children's Monitor and he joins me, Now, hello, Aaron,

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Speaker 2: thank you, or Andrew, how frustrating is it to write

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Speaker 2: reports that nobody listens to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's disappointing. You know, when Dame Karen asked us

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Speaker 1: to do this review, we'd hope to see more progress

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Speaker 1: than busy appointing not to have seen that.

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Speaker 2: And so you're not surprised in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 1: I don't think surprised. I'd actually hope we would have

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Speaker 1: seen some change. I mean the things that Dame Kraen identified,

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Speaker 1: the gaps and recommendations these aren't you? And you said

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Speaker 1: onto a couple of decades of children being murdered, reviews

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Speaker 1: being done, recommendations made, So the issues she's raised aren't you.

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Speaker 1: We just need to see some action.

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Speaker 2: Now, Okay, So who's responsible for not taking action? Because

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Speaker 2: that's basically what your report has ended out saying. Rather

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Speaker 2: than looking at, you know, at the improvements, it's looking

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Speaker 2: at what hasn't happened. Who is responsible for nothing?

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Speaker 1: Look, you know, the recommendations ask agencies to take action,

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Speaker 1: but some of these things also require government decisions and

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Speaker 1: potentially legislation to be passed. So there's a number of

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Speaker 1: players in this game.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, one of them is alling a tamariki and

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Speaker 2: this this report comes out that they're making decisions on

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Speaker 2: staff availability rather than prioritizing a child safety. So why

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Speaker 2: are they making such decisions?

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Speaker 1: Of What the report shows is that they're under pressure.

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Speaker 1: You've got a lot of reports of concern coming to them.

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Speaker 1: These are then going out to their sites and unfortunately

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Speaker 1: the social work is having to make tough decisions. And

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Speaker 1: what you see is inconsistent threshold around the country in

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Speaker 1: terms of when they can take action, and it's unduly

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Speaker 1: influenced by the number of staffs that are available in

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Speaker 1: those sites.

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Speaker 2: Whenever these sorts of things come up, with start hearing

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Speaker 2: about a lack of money. But do we have a

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Speaker 2: skill shortage? Do we actually have the people who are

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Speaker 2: competent to actually do these rather complex social interventions.

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Speaker 1: Well, one of the things that we spoke to on

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Speaker 1: on a tun of easy staff on the front line

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Speaker 1: and allso National Office, there was concerns about, you know,

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Speaker 1: whether they could get the staff and to do the work.

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Speaker 1: Some sites told us that they were told they couldn't

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Speaker 1: hire staff. But we've also heard that there's a real

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Speaker 1: shortage of social workers available to fill positions and that

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Speaker 1: you have a number of vacancies that they haven't failt I.

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Speaker 2: Bet they've got lots of managers. Here's a question for

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Speaker 2: you. You know, They're big debate is about Health New Zealand

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Speaker 2: and that the manager heavy but no front lane staff.

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Speaker 2: Is it the same for a tamariki and other agencies.

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Speaker 2: They've got lots of people who who talk about what

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Speaker 2: to do, but they've got nobody who can actually do

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Speaker 2: it well.

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Speaker 1: Like many agencies at the moment, they are making decisions

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Speaker 1: to remove positions in the back office and put them

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Speaker 1: into the front line, and we yet to see what

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Speaker 1: difference it will make. But our organization is there to

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Speaker 1: continue going out to see what impacts this might have

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Speaker 1: and whether some of these issues are being addressed. And

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Speaker 1: that's why although we've done this report today, we're going

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Speaker 1: to come back in twelve months and see what difference

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Speaker 1: may have been made by them.

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Speaker 2: If you had a different hat on, if you were

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Speaker 2: in charge, what would you do.

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Speaker 1: That's a really good question. Look, Dan Karen did say

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Speaker 1: that these are difficult issues to grapple with, but like

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Speaker 1: I said, they've been around for a while. I think

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Speaker 1: it's bigger than just looking at all a tomariki as

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Speaker 1: looking at the whole system. We need a really good,

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Speaker 1: well funded supported community sector because often it's NGO's maori

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Speaker 1: ev providers that can actually get there through the front door.

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Speaker 1: But when they see concerns, when they see young children

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Speaker 1: in need, they need to be able to report to

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Speaker 1: ord Anga Tamarigi and know that they will respond.

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Speaker 2: All right, Aaron, I, thank you so much. Erin is

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Speaker 2: from the Independent Children's Monitor. He is the chief executive

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Speaker 2: of the report was written by Dame Karen Potassi and

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Speaker 2: It was written following the death of Malachae Su Bitch,

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Speaker 2: and she found that children are no safer now than

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Speaker 2: where Malachi died three years ago.

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