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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Tame podcast

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Speaker 1: from News Talks at Me.

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Speaker 2: From Rotru to the World. Cliff Curtis is a homegrown

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Speaker 2: Hollywood legend known for his skill of metamorphosis, carfing out credits,

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Speaker 2: and a mixture of major franchises and more personal productions.

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Speaker 2: His most recent project feels like a bit of a

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Speaker 2: blend of both. Let's have a listen to Apple TV

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Speaker 2: Plus's new series Chief of War.

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Speaker 3: This Island, This is your home. This land will hold

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Speaker 3: you long after I am gone, telling me about the

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Speaker 3: outside world. This strange the pearls skin honors nor gods

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Speaker 3: of land becoming soon That is Chief of War.

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Speaker 2: Cliff Curtis is starring in the series, produced and also starring,

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Speaker 2: produced by and also starring Jason Mamore. It tells the

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Speaker 2: tale at the turn of the eighteenth century when the

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Speaker 2: four kingdoms of Hawaii were at war and Cliff.

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Speaker 3: Curtis is with us.

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Speaker 2: Got a good morning total Jack, Hey, congratulations and thank

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Speaker 2: you for your Thank you for your time with this.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is an amazing story and it's remarkable

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Speaker 2: really because it's a Polynesian story told from an indigenous perspective.

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Speaker 3: For a global audience.

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Speaker 2: So, given your career, given all the roles you've had

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Speaker 2: over the years, just how significant is that?

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Speaker 3: It's very significant. I mean, it's a it's a you know,

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Speaker 3: as you know, you've probably followed as a as a

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Speaker 3: storyteller in the screen industry for the last three decades

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Speaker 3: at least. You know, we've managed to tell a variation

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Speaker 3: of stories from our small corner of the world. But

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Speaker 3: you know, this series, when when led by the likes

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Speaker 3: of Jason more Moore and his co creator Thomas Parker,

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Speaker 3: they can bring scale to the narrative, Like they can

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Speaker 3: really recreate the scale and the majesty and the regal

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Speaker 3: nature of our ancestry. And they've done an amazing job.

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Speaker 3: I'm very, very proud and humbled to be a part

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Speaker 3: of it, to be honest, that's big for us. It's

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Speaker 3: a big deal for us.

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Speaker 2: It is a big deal, and it's such a powerful story.

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Speaker 2: But I think it's a great example of how sharing,

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Speaker 2: you know, Polynesian stories isn't just the right thing to do, like,

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Speaker 2: it's seriously entertaining as well, right and and and it

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Speaker 2: feels like you've really struck that balance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, Well, I mean, I don't. I don't. I

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Speaker 3: don't think as a MILDI storyteller. I do it because

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Speaker 3: it's the right thing to do as I do it

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Speaker 3: because I'm passionate about it and I want to do it,

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Speaker 3: and if I'm compelled to tell these stories because for

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Speaker 3: my my self ins reasons. But culturally we live in

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Speaker 3: the context of ancestors and descendants. You know, my own

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Speaker 3: self is cents just are relatively minor compared to being

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Speaker 3: of service to our EWI, to our people. Now, we

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Speaker 3: want we want stories like this that can inspire our

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Speaker 3: future generations, not because we should, but because it's something

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Speaker 3: that just as in our as in our lifeblood as

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Speaker 3: human beings, to want to do so.

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Speaker 2: There are elements of the story that that are so

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Speaker 2: familiar for an audience and ALTI at all. But but

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Speaker 2: for those of our audience who haven't you seen Chief

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Speaker 2: of Walk? Can you can you give us a little

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Speaker 2: bit of background without without giving too much away? Can

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Speaker 2: you can you kind of set the context for us

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Speaker 2: a little bit?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's a classical story. I mean, it's true,

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Speaker 3: it's based on history, and it's a story that I

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Speaker 3: think we can recognize from many great stories from any

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Speaker 3: culture which makes it human. You know, there's a there's

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Speaker 3: a there's a chief of war played by Jason Monmore.

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Speaker 3: His name is cut Yana, and and they learn of

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Speaker 3: this this impending doom. There's this prophecy that a great

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Speaker 3: wave of of of the outside world is coming towards Hawaii.

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Speaker 3: And he has to leave the islands and go out

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Speaker 3: to see what's happening in the world. And he returns

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Speaker 3: with technology and stories and and he he wants to

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Speaker 3: change the way that Hawaii is. And he campaigns within

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Speaker 3: the kings of each island to unify the islands. And

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Speaker 3: this gives rise to the Kingdom of Kamehameha. But they've

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Speaker 3: got to go through a brutal series of battles and wars,

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Speaker 3: and Hawaii is divided amongst eight islands, and on these islands,

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Speaker 3: on each corner of each island are different kingdoms. It's

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Speaker 3: it's not this little known how vast and how complex

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Speaker 3: and how rich and powerful these nations were. Tim Weider

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Speaker 3: plays King Kahi Kili, which is the island of Maui.

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Speaker 3: I play a character called King Gaolwa from the island

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Speaker 3: of Hawaii, and my cousin is king Camehameha, and we

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Speaker 3: are all battling to decide which king should lead Hawaii

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Speaker 3: and prepare for the incoming world that is going to

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Speaker 3: change the life in Hawaii forever.

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Speaker 2: The relationship between Kanaka Maaali, so the indigenous peoples of

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Speaker 2: Hawaii and Maui and other Polynesian peoples obviously runs incredibly deep.

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Speaker 2: But from your perspective, what did you learn about Kanaka

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Speaker 2: Maali during this production?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just a scale. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we you know, we have often seen on screen ourselves represented,

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Speaker 3: but the scale of the storytelling is very intimate, and

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Speaker 3: we just don't really realize that we are a million

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Speaker 3: Hawaiians living in Hawaii pre contact. Yeah, you know, and

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Speaker 3: that when they went to war, when they went to battle,

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Speaker 3: there wasn't like a few hundred or a few thousands.

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Speaker 3: There was one hundred thousand strong in each army, and

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Speaker 3: there might be two or three armies that battle all

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Speaker 3: at once. Uh. That when they were taken armada of

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Speaker 3: their ships from one island to the next, it was

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Speaker 3: in the thousands. So I think that's the thing that

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Speaker 3: really is striking, and that that hasn't been understood, and

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Speaker 3: it's really really inspiring to sort of see the might

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Speaker 3: of these nations and the vulnerability of them to to

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Speaker 3: to history and that and that empires come and they go,

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Speaker 3: they rise, and they fall, but we're still here and

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Speaker 3: uh And there's a beautiful connection between Maudi and and

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Speaker 3: and karnak Mauli of Hawaii, Tahiti, tongas more with Apa Nui,

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Speaker 3: and that we have a shared language, we have a

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Speaker 3: shared genealogy, we have a shared experience. That our continent

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Speaker 3: is not a continent of a mass of land like

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Speaker 3: the Americas or Europe, per Se or Asia. Ours is

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Speaker 3: a continent of ocean to Wana New Yaquiwa. And it

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Speaker 3: is not the seed that divides us. It is a

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Speaker 3: seed sea the ocean that connects us and unifies us

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Speaker 3: as Polynesia one of the main and it also connects

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Speaker 3: us to both sides of the Pacific. It connects us

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Speaker 3: through Taiwan into all of Asia, Southeast Asia, into China.

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Speaker 3: It connects us up to Mongolia and round from the

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Speaker 3: Mongolia across the Strait and down through the Americas. They're

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Speaker 3: native Americans of what we call now call Canada, the

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Speaker 3: Cree nation. They're coming tomorrow. We've got all of these

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Speaker 3: nations of Native America that go all the way down

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Speaker 3: to South America and it crosses back over into Upper

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Speaker 3: North Easter Island. So at the catchment of our indigenous

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Speaker 3: cultures are vast. It is a vast and un unheralded

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Speaker 3: population of indigenous culture. We're made to think through the

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Speaker 3: the historical western lens that we're little pockets of these

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Speaker 3: cute little natives that like to sing songs to one another,

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Speaker 3: but which we did do that too. We can also

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Speaker 3: be cute and very lovely and warm, but that we

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Speaker 3: were a vast population and still are. It's just that

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Speaker 3: it's been forgotten. And through the series we can revigorate this.

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Speaker 3: Because the character that Jason goes out to see the world,

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Speaker 3: he don't go to Europe. He goes to Asia. He

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Speaker 3: sees the might of southern Southeast asiaan all of China,

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Speaker 3: and he comes about with gunpowder and all the technologies

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Speaker 3: of Asia to prepare for the for the what will

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Speaker 3: be the onslaught of the western migration migrants as we

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Speaker 3: as we as we as we don't want to call

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Speaker 3: ourselves there, but the incoming migrants from this foreign place.

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Speaker 3: You know and wanting to colonize.

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Speaker 2: How at you Yeah, It's amazing in the production, the

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Speaker 2: prominence with which the Hawaiian language is given, I mean,

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Speaker 2: is remarkable seeing all of these actors we know and

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Speaker 2: love speaking in the Hawaiian language. How did you and

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Speaker 2: the cast find that experience?

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Speaker 3: I was beautiful? What a privilege? What a We have

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Speaker 3: the basis of our own real maori. So you know

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Speaker 3: ki vaka aloha, you know tohuna uh you know, we

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Speaker 3: have all of these connections farah. So we had the

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Speaker 3: basis of our own language. Was beautiful to hear it

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Speaker 3: resonate in the dialect which is Hawaii, which is our

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Speaker 3: connected language. And then we had Salman's and our cast

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Speaker 3: Torments and the cast Tahitians in the cast, and we

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Speaker 3: all connected through the vision of well more more and

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Speaker 3: they consciously wanted to reunite Polynesia to show that we

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Speaker 3: are connected and that we are not isolated, and that

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Speaker 3: we should not divide ourselves by our ilects on by

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Speaker 3: our islands, but connect ourselves to celebrate our connection and

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Speaker 3: our heritage together. It's a beautiful, beautiful happening.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't like in a practical sense, is it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously you know you yeah, yeah, no doubt.

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Speaker 3: Huge challenge and you know it's it's actually yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: very very typical to to earn the Hawaiian But I

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Speaker 3: I was so excited by it. I asked, I asked

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Speaker 3: on the condition if I accepted the role, that in

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Speaker 3: order to honor this ancestor, that I would not speak

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Speaker 3: a word of English, that I would only speak Hawaiian. Wow.

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Speaker 3: And that was a great privilege to to in a

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Speaker 3: commitment for myself to to you know, to try my

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Speaker 3: best to honor this this ancestral line.

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Speaker 2: Have you found yourself through the production experience starting to

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Speaker 2: like reach for words in real Maudi and going to

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Speaker 2: the Hawaiian word instead. Obviously there are a lot of

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Speaker 2: similarities a lot of the time that do you find

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Speaker 2: yourself sometimes reaching for the wrong one?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, definitely. But the but but but the greater

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Speaker 3: danger was actually speaking Hawaiian with a Maudi accent, which

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Speaker 3: is quite quite difficult. It's like speaking it's like speaking

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Speaker 3: English with an American accent. You know, it's it's quite abrupt,

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Speaker 3: it's quite notice. Was the biggest challenge was to try

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Speaker 3: and but there was there still exists a dialect in

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Speaker 3: Hawaii where instead of that where they still have the

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Speaker 3: tea's and the rs that we have same on Someone,

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Speaker 3: there's there's a there's a there's a dialect in someone

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Speaker 3: and Hawaiian which has the Maldi tea and the Maudi

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Speaker 3: R and the Maudi W. So so I I chose

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Speaker 3: to use that dialect and my character to hopefully connect this.

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Speaker 3: This this thousand years, thousands of years apart and thousands

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Speaker 3: of miles away, still our language and our customs live

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Speaker 3: through this. It's a beautiful, beautiful celebration of our heritage. Well.

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Speaker 2: I don't expect you had much time to google yourself

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Speaker 2: these days, but I read an interview with Jason.

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Speaker 3: In which he said, think of anything worse?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, true, he's very wise. He said, if Cliff and

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Speaker 2: Tim are not nominated for Emmys for their efforts with

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Speaker 2: the language, I will effing lose my shit.

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Speaker 3: So there you go. Oh well, I won't be holding

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Speaker 3: my breath for that. But I'll tell you this much.

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Speaker 3: I've seen Jason's work, and from you know, his body

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Speaker 3: of work, he's a he's a mega movie star nowadays,

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Speaker 3: and he's you know, he's he's got a significant body

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Speaker 3: of work, but I've never seen his work i'll be

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Speaker 3: of such depth and nuance and subtlety and emotion. It's

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Speaker 3: the best work of his career that I've seen. And

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Speaker 3: same with Tim wad On Morrison. He was born to

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Speaker 3: be a Hawaiian king. You know, he's got a whole

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Speaker 3: way that he is in the world as a mildy,

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Speaker 3: as a human being, he's quite distinct, but when you

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Speaker 3: put him in the role of King Kahikilly, it all

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Speaker 3: makes sense. He's he's absolutely I'm just I'm just completely

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Speaker 3: just where i am. I'm lost words. I can't really

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Speaker 3: describe what it is to see Tim, wither And and

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Speaker 3: Jason play those roles there that it's the it's the

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Speaker 3: greatest work that I've seen them do in their careers.

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Speaker 3: And I'm very very proud of them, and I'm very

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Speaker 3: very you know, humbled and grateful to be alongside.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, well we really appreciate you giving us your time.

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Speaker 2: Congratulations on and also yeah, always thank you.

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Speaker 3: It's always a pleasure to to see your commitment, Maudi

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Speaker 3: and to see you representing in that way.

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Speaker 2: So all right, mode that is Cliff Curtis, Chief of

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Speaker 2: War is the incredible new series streaming on Apple tv Plus.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for all the texts, Jack, great interview,

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Speaker 2: awesome to hear the passion and Cliff's voice the spar

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Speaker 2: into an incredible career. Jack Lovecliff Curtis, God bless you,

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Speaker 2: Cliff sis Lee, thank you very much for that. Ninety

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Speaker 2: two ninety two. If you want to send us a

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Speaker 2: messag John News Talks he'd.

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Speaker 3: Be this morning.

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Speaker 2: You can email me as well. Of course, Jack at

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Speaker 2: Newstalks hedb dot co dot nz for.

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Speaker 1: More from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. Listen live to

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Speaker 1: News Talks he'd be from nine am Saturday, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio