1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty Unique Homes 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Uniquely for you. 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 2: Coming up twenty away from six and on the huddle 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 2: with us we have Gareth Hughes, director of the Well 5 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 2: Being Economy Alliance out here at Allay, former Green MP 6 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 2: obviously and Thomas Scrimser of the Maxim Institute. Hire you 7 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: two you Gareth. You see Shane Jones is considering rationing 8 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: what gas we've got left. I mean that sounds desperate, 9 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 2: doesn't it. 10 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 3: Well, it's a pretty odd thing for a government ministers 11 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 3: to say. I mean, it's quite incredible to be in 12 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 3: the situation. Look quite agree with Shane. Probably not for 13 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 3: the reason he thinks so we should be rationing it 14 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 3: because it's a fossil fuel, But it's ridiculous that we're 15 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 3: in this situation where businesses are shutting down, people are 16 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 3: potentially going out of work because of the problem, which 17 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 3: has been a long time in the making. 18 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: Is it a surprise to you, Garres No, it's not. 19 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 3: I mean people have been warning about this for decades 20 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 3: and this is why I think a responsible government would 21 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 3: have acknowledged this is a sunset industry been trying to 22 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 3: look at the most high value, most efficient use of 23 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 3: the gay. Look at a real waste. If we're just 24 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 3: earning this for electricity or using it at our homes, 25 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 3: we'd better. 26 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 4: To use it. 27 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: Now, you've got to stop talking. I'm desperate not to 28 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 2: I'm desperate not to get into a fight with you, Thomas. 29 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 3: More just measure for government. Even you know the previous 30 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: labor government have been rolling out of solder panels on people. 31 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 3: We probably wouldn't be in the surf. You're asking for it. 32 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 2: You're asking for it, Thomas, What do you think I mean? 33 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: This is I feel like we need to accept there 34 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: is no coming back from this. Is there? Like we 35 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: we are running out of gas. We have not got 36 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: gas coming out. Probably rationing is the only sensible thing 37 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 2: left to do. 38 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 4: Well, Gareth was talking about finding the most high value 39 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 4: and efficient use for the gas we have, which as 40 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 4: you mentioned, is highly limited. But we have a system 41 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 4: for rationing and finding efficient use of resources. It's the 42 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 4: price system. And so I guess my observation is that 43 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 4: if businesses are getting outbids for gas on the open 44 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 4: market against consumers, that's telling us something that the consumers 45 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 4: need for the gas is higher than the businesses now, 46 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 4: Gareth raised, I guess solar panels on the roof of 47 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 4: every house. It's kind of misunderstanding where gas is used 48 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 4: in the electricity generation market. It's used as a peaking 49 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 4: when other sources are unavailable, and so currently the gas 50 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 4: is providing a really important function in the consumer electricity market. 51 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 4: So it's not the future of it, you know, it's 52 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 4: not like we can it's not like we're looking like 53 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 4: we're finding much more gas if we go exploring. But 54 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 4: at the moment it's still pretty crucial. 55 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, Gareth, I need to ask you this question, right 56 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 2: because I just I don't always understand how green heads work. 57 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: So is this what you guys wanted? I mean, what 58 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 2: you've got is you have got gas running out and 59 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: that's the ideal, but the reality is that we're replacing 60 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 2: it with coal. How do you feel about that? 61 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 4: Oh? 62 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 3: I feel terrible about it. It should not have happened. 63 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: What should have happened instead, though, because this is the 64 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 2: only way that peaking. 65 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 3: Works, well, we should have had a proper just transition 66 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 3: to look after those workers and actually transition. And the 67 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 3: problem is we've got a crazy electricity market that even 68 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 3: you know, I agree with Shane Jones on this point, 69 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,679 Speaker 3: the fact that we're deindustrializing because of our super expensive electricity, 70 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 3: where gas is setting up the marginal price the expensive price. 71 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 3: I think successive governments have failed to unlock what is 72 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 3: cheaper electricity. You look around the world, keeper investing in 73 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 3: wind and solar because it's cheaper, but we haven't taken 74 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 3: advantage of that. 75 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 2: People are investing in wind and solar because they don't 76 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: have as much renewable energy as we do. We are 77 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: like maxing it out. We're really good on that front, and. 78 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 3: We should be saving the hydro dams to that peaking 79 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 3: function that Thomas mentioned. But when we're running our system 80 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 3: entirely for profit rather than the public good or actually 81 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 3: delivering cheaper electricity for companies and customers. 82 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 2: Okay, now do you think actually do you know what 83 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: I was going to ask you about Palestine? But we 84 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: need to take a break and then we're dealing with Palestine. 85 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: Have to winds up the huddle with New Zealand Southeby's 86 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: International Realty, the Ones for Unmatched Results. 87 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: Right back with Thomas Scrimser and Gareth Hughes on the huddle, 88 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: Thomas should we recognize the state of Palestine now or 89 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: should we take our time? 90 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 4: Well, I think it's perfectly reasonable for the government to 91 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 4: want to take its time. New Zealand's long express a 92 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 4: desire for a two state solution, but there are some 93 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 4: really key things we have to be clear on if 94 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 4: we're going to recognize a Palestinian state and for it 95 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 4: to be meaningful so as people will be aware. Palestine 96 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 4: as it currently exists, there's in two geographic areas with 97 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 4: two different groups in authority. Gaza, where Israel is waging 98 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 4: its war, is governed by Hamas and has been for 99 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 4: over a decade. The West Bank is ruled by the 100 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 4: Palestinian authority, And like an indispensable part of recognizing a 101 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 4: state is identifying a legitimate government that has a capacity 102 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 4: to enter into relations with other states. If we can't 103 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 4: point to this group and say they we are the 104 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 4: government of this new Palestinian state, recognition doesn't mean a 105 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 4: whole lot. So the question for New Zealand to actually 106 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 4: resolve in our minds is who is this state of 107 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 4: Palestine we will recognize. And because this is the merging 108 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 4: out of a concern for the war in Gaza, how 109 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 4: would recognizing the Palestinian authority as that state actually help 110 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 4: the people on the ground there. 111 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. 112 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: Can you argue with any of that, Gareth. 113 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 3: No, But the fact is that France, the UK, Canada 114 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 3: and Australia, countries that we would normally be standing alongside, 115 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 3: are prepared to make this step now. Obviously what's happening 116 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: in Gaza is horrific and for a country like New Zealand, 117 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 3: it is respect on the world state. This is something 118 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 3: meaningful we could do to be ultimately halting well, it's 119 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 3: actually following through on the long standing policy. Both David 120 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: Seymour and Winston Feeders have said it's a case of 121 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: when not, If so, why not do it now? Obviously 122 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 3: there's mechanisms in place from the Palestinian Authority to Theation Force, 123 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 3: which the UN has been discussing. I agree with former 124 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 3: Prime Minister Helen Clark. It is humiliating that we're following 125 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 3: behind them and it doesn't look like we're able to 126 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 3: reach a position and the question is will they even 127 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 3: be able to get a consensus position in the cabinet 128 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 3: that's not clear. 129 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 2: What I'm confused about, Thomas, is how we have landed 130 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 2: with this being the discussion. I mean, we have children 131 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: who are starving in Gaza who need food, So why 132 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 2: are we discussing the state of Palestine instead of discussing 133 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: how on earth we force Israel to feed these people. 134 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 4: Well, I think it's a reasonable discussion to be having 135 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 4: because at some point the hot war will cease, and 136 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 4: you know, there will be some sort of, if not 137 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 4: an absolute peace, there will be a relenting of military power, 138 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 4: and we have to think what comes next. So it's 139 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 4: perfectly appropriate for us to be having this discussion and 140 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 4: thinking about what institutions can protect the people in Palestine, 141 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 4: both in the West Bank and Gaza, because the status 142 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 4: quo that existed before October seventh wasn't sustainable and wasn't 143 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 4: acceptable to anyone. So we need to be thinking about 144 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 4: what comes next. But we also have to keep in 145 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 4: mind it's simply recognizing a Palestinian state, especially if we 146 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 4: can't identify who has their legitimate authority over that state, 147 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 4: won't actually help people on the ground. 148 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: Gareth, do you agree with me that national would be 149 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 2: crazy to roll Luxem Now? 150 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 3: Well, it's a hard one. I mean, look the measure 151 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 3: of the yardstick that Luxon himself has put up is 152 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 3: his management to the economy, and that's clearly not delivering 153 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 3: at the moment. You know, we see factories closing, historic 154 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 3: high unemployment since twenty twenty, you know, tens of thousands 155 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 3: of people are out of work because of the poor 156 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 3: economic condition. So yeah, on his own yard stick, he's 157 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 3: not delivering. It's pretty clear he's one of the weaker 158 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: performances performers when you look at his personal polling, this 159 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 3: the polling of the government. I think an uncharitable opinion 160 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 3: would be that, you know, keep him on, keep him 161 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 3: having the blame until conditions turn around. There are some 162 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 3: other performers within the government as well, but it's pretty 163 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 3: rare at this point in the electoral cycle to be 164 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 3: considering a change of the Prime minister so soon after 165 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 3: the election. That books to sign at the Times, and 166 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 3: there's clearly a bit of momentum and a bit of 167 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 3: pressure within the National Party and outside to raise this question. 168 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 2: Are they really considering it, Thomas or I mean, tell 169 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 2: me honestly what you think. Are they really considering it 170 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: in the NATS or is this just columnists and viewing 171 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: their keyboards. 172 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 4: Well, I don't pretend to understand what's happening on the 173 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 4: inner workings of the National Party. I think it's pretty 174 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,599 Speaker 4: unlikely that they'd be taking the knives to him. I 175 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 4: think would be fairly foolish for them to do so, 176 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 4: because even if Luxon is in some sense struggling to 177 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 4: connect with the public at the moment, instability is the 178 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 4: great keller of governments anyway, if people don't believe that 179 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 4: there is a team that is working together. And Luxon 180 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 4: might not be connecting as well with the voters as 181 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 4: he would like, but he is setting up as ministers 182 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 4: to achieve a lot of things. And I think even 183 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 4: you know, Gareth might not be the kind of person 184 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 4: who is a fan of what the government is doing. 185 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 4: He might think they are enacting policies he doesn't like, 186 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 4: but they are moving at pace on the things they 187 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 4: say are important to them. Economic growth has not returned, 188 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 4: but governments have relatively little control about economic growth months 189 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 4: to month, and so they are enacting structural change in 190 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 4: the economy for better or worse. 191 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 2: Guys, it's great to talk to the pair of you. 192 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Gareth Hughes, Thomas Skrimjar huddle this evening, 193 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: it's coming up eight Away from six 194 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 195 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 196 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio