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Speaker 1: First, our three biggest sporting bodies right now are leaderless.

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Speaker 1: Is there a problem with sports executives running out of puff? Rugby? Netball, cricket?

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Speaker 1: Mark Robinson, Jenny Wiley's Scott wien Ink all finished last

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Speaker 1: year and they each had their own reasons. They each

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Speaker 1: had their own scandals in a way, But is the

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Speaker 1: job of a sports boss becoming too much? Former Chief

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Speaker 1: executive of New Zealand Cricket Martin steads with me now, Martin, Good.

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Speaker 2: Evening evening, Ryan.

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Speaker 1: Do you think the job's harder now than it has

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Speaker 1: been in the past.

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Speaker 2: It's always been hard, but it's very visible now with

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Speaker 2: the increasing social media coverage and the ability of people

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Speaker 2: to get in their keyboard warriors and comment. From that

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Speaker 2: point of view, it is but that these are very

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Speaker 2: difficult jobs. You know, Sport is volatile, stakeholders, the expectations

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Speaker 2: sometimes board expectations are disproportionate to what the resources are

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Speaker 2: of an organization, and burnout. I think burnout is a

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Speaker 2: huge issue. So I have great empathy and a lot

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Speaker 2: of sympathy for the people that have found themselves in

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Speaker 2: the position that those three chief executives and others have

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Speaker 2: found themselves in the last few months.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned social media, which is interesting because a lot

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Speaker 1: of people say it's media, you know, your media commentators,

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Speaker 1: you know, mugs like me on the radio saying this

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Speaker 1: person that person. You know. But social media now has

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Speaker 1: changed the game, hasn't it.

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Speaker 2: It has? You know, the mainstream media is not an issue.

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Speaker 2: Mainstream media is still full of people who buy large responsible,

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Speaker 2: understand what they're writing about, and generally get it, you know,

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Speaker 2: not always totally right, but are in the ballpark. Social

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Speaker 2: media is completely different. Anyone can say what they like,

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Speaker 2: they don't understand sometimes what they're talking about. They are

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Speaker 2: vicious and you know if unfortunately it's almost impossible for

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Speaker 2: people in leadership positions to get away from that. They

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Speaker 2: can't and that has an impact. It has an effect

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Speaker 2: on their well being, and it just adds to the

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Speaker 2: burden of the job they're doing.

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Speaker 1: And then you think, who would want to do it?

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Speaker 1: You know, I mean, how much have they paid? Have

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Speaker 1: they paid enough for it?

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Speaker 2: No, they're well below market rates in other areas, but

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Speaker 2: they're still okay remuneration wise. But the reason they do

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Speaker 2: it is the passion they have either for the particular

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Speaker 2: sport that they're leading or just sport in general. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's I invariably come across good people in sport. You

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Speaker 2: don't come across too many duds. And these are people

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Speaker 2: who are talented and who are trying desperately to do

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Speaker 2: their best in difficult circumstances. They'll make mistakes, There's no

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Speaker 2: two ways about it. And you know it's just bloody

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Speaker 2: hard work hanging in there and getting more stuff right

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Speaker 2: than getting wrong Martin.

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Speaker 1: And you know a lot of the cases that we've

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Speaker 1: started with rugby, netball, cricket, there's player input. Are players

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Speaker 1: have been given I don't want to say too much

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Speaker 1: say because it makes it sound like they're not important.

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Speaker 1: But can you listen to the players too much?

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Speaker 2: Yes, just like you can listen to any other stakeholder

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Speaker 2: too much. But I am on record, over a long

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Speaker 2: period of time, I've been a strong supporter of players

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Speaker 2: or athletes having input into the environments they operate with.

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Speaker 2: And so if that it's not so much power as

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Speaker 2: just the opportunity to participate, either directly or through their representatives.

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Speaker 2: And you know, for example, in cricket, the relationship between

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Speaker 2: the Cricket Players Association and New Zealand cricket over a

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Speaker 2: long period of time from two thousand and two through

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Speaker 2: to recently has been brilliant and has led to really

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Speaker 2: strong relationships. At the moment, it's a little bit volatile

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Speaker 2: and they're going to have to work through that on

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Speaker 2: all sides over the next twenty twenty six. But I

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Speaker 2: think if you get that relationship right, then the sport

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Speaker 2: and the athletes the players themselves benefit hugely. So I

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Speaker 2: would hate to see it undermined. And I think David

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Speaker 2: Kirk did a really good job last week of explaining

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Speaker 2: really clearly that the review of the All Black Coach

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Speaker 2: received feedback from players that David and his other ends

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Speaker 2: that our administrators that asked for. So it wasn't that

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Speaker 2: the players stood up and said we're demanding the removal

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Speaker 2: of Scott Robertson. They answered a whole series of questions

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Speaker 2: as to how the environment was going, and ultimately Kirk

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Speaker 2: and the others just weighed that up and said that

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Speaker 2: on balance they didn't feel confident that that under Robertson

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Speaker 2: they'd be able to keep going in a positive trajectory,

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Speaker 2: so they needed to do something about it. Well, you

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Speaker 2: know that the players are entitled to have a say

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Speaker 2: in that, and so they should.

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Speaker 1: And if you ask them, you've got to expect an answer,

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Speaker 1: don't you.

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Speaker 2: And are close to the action, and they will tell you.

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Speaker 2: But you've got to be smart enough also when you're

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Speaker 2: in Kirk's position or a CEO's position, to actually like

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Speaker 2: any feedback to balance up what you're hearing against other

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Speaker 2: feedback you're receiving and find the place where the truth

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Speaker 2: most likely lies. And I have faith and lots of

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Speaker 2: our leaders to be able to do there.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, well we need to find three more of

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Speaker 1: them pretty quick. Smart Martin, thank you for that. Martin Steeden,

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Speaker 1: former Chief Executive New Zealand Cricket head of the twenty

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Speaker 1: eleven Rugby World Cup organizing team as well knows what

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Speaker 1: he knows a thing or two about managing sport.

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Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drave, listen live to

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