1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Modig overnight. How the vibes going? Did it go well? 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: The Prime Minister on a trade mission, of course, of 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: some note, Christopher Luxen is with us from India. Good morning, morning, Mike. 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: The meeting with Mody on a scale of one to ten, ten, 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: it was a love first one. You can't stand each other. 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: What's your number? 7 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 2: That's pretty much a ten. We get on very well. 8 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: It's a good personal chemistry and good relationship there. He's 9 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 2: got a good sense of humor and we connected very 10 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 2: well in Laos and that actually is what led to 11 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: the state visit and then obviously we've accelerated things from there. 12 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 2: But you know, he approaches things in a similar way 13 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 2: that I think about things around delivery results, how you 14 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 2: get delivery out of a team in your public service. 15 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 2: So no, we ken it really well, really well. 16 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: How much time was spent on the FTA specifically. 17 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: Well, there's been a lot of time leading up until 18 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: the announcement that I know Todd talked to you the 19 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 2: other day about. But from our point of view inside 20 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 2: the actual meetings that we had, it was, you know, 21 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: we talked about it. We know what we want to do. 22 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: We both said to our trade ministers. We wanted to 23 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 2: move as quickly as possible, and we said that in 24 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 2: front of our respective delegations, just to make sure that 25 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 2: the systems understood that we're expecting a response to be 26 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: worked through pretty quickly. So, but you know, there was 27 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: also conversations around the broader you know, defense, We've got 28 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 2: a big step up happening in defense and security. We 29 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 2: should be doing more work with India. We're actually leading 30 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 2: a maritime force at the moment with India as our 31 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: deputy and we've obviously got Ta Kaha coming into Mumbai 32 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: later on the week as well. So you know, we 33 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: talked about defense aspects, we talked about certainly, you know, 34 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: the commerce and economic aspects, but also there's a lot 35 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 2: of people to people connection stuff which is really important. 36 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: They're very interested in. One of the things we talked 37 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 2: a lot about was actually sports. I mean, they want 38 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 2: to make a pitch for the Olympics in twenty thirty six. 39 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: They noticed that we performed really well through the Olympics 40 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: on a per head basis, and they're interested in all 41 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 2: of those sorts of things so as well. So there's 42 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 2: quite a lot in the people to people space. 43 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: How much actual business will be done this week from 44 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: the delegation. 45 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: Well, there's quite a bit going on. We've actually we've 46 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: just completed one day out of four. We've got another 47 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: here in New Delhi and then we do move to 48 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: a much more business orientation in the last two days 49 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: in Mumbai, which is obviously the commercial capital of India. 50 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: But you know, I think the you know, getting that 51 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: you know, really economic breakthrough, I think and being able 52 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: to kick off the you know, the FTA negotiations is 53 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 2: really important. I mean this morning as I check in 54 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 2: with the delegations each morning and get them to do 55 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: a round table, and I was just you know, talking 56 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 2: to you know, Pan Pacific and they were talking about 57 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: their wood products that are sold into India. Well, they 58 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: experience a five to ten percent tariff typically that they 59 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: don't experience out of Australia. Wine. You know, there's a 60 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: whole bunch of products, you know, apples that actually have 61 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: huge tariffs attached with them and the Australians don't have it. So, 62 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: you know, we know we've got work to do. There'll 63 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 2: be some sensitive issues on both sides, but you know, 64 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 2: I'm very comfortable with the relationship. We're built that we 65 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: can work them through quite practically. 66 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: Where where does dairies sit or where will it sit 67 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: or how do you handle it? 68 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 2: Well, what we what we don't do is say we're 69 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: going to walk away, because that will be a hard conversation. 70 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: And I get that sensitivity on the Indian side. To 71 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 2: give you a feel for it, Mike, about forty five 72 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 2: percent of Indians are engaged in agriculture and it's about 73 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 2: fifteen percent of their actual GDP, so it's a very 74 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 2: sensitive political issue. 75 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: Now. 76 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: Having said that, we want to make sure that we 77 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 2: do everything we can to advance dairy with India. We're 78 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: not going to give up and have a mentality to 79 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: say we can't even try, and so that's been part 80 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: of the conversation leading into the kickoff of these They 81 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: haven't ruled that out. We haven't ruled it out, and 82 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 2: we know that'll be difficult, but we're determined to try 83 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: and find a way through it and do the very 84 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: very best we can for New Zealand. 85 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: Is it possible it's a slow burn, so you could 86 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: do some sort of deal with dairy coming in later. 87 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: Is that the sort of scenario you look at. 88 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: Well, there's all sorts of options, But for us right now, 89 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: I do actually want to push on and do the 90 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: very very best that we can do, and I want 91 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: to make sure that we get the best deal compared 92 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: to any other country around dairy and we protect ourselves 93 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 2: in that negotiation. So I'm sure there's lots of ways 94 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: we can play that. There'll be some other asks from 95 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: the Indian side, I suspect as well, and other things 96 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: that will come up from our side, but you know, 97 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: the key thing is I want to push on now 98 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: and get this thing resolved and done. What's the timeline 99 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: on it, Well, I mean promise to modion. I didn't 100 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 2: put a time frame on it, but suffice to say, 101 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: we made it very clear that we're expecting to make 102 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: good progress on it through the course of this year. 103 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 2: And you know, I think, actually, frankly, given some of 104 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,559 Speaker 2: the work and conversations that have already happened, and given 105 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 2: the relationships that we've got at the top, top level, 106 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 2: there's no reason why we shouldn't have an expectation we 107 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 2: should be able to try and push really hard to 108 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 2: try and do as much of it as we can 109 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 2: this year. But you know, you never can put a 110 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 2: timeline on it. We will negotiate hard. They will negotiate hard. 111 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: I've done a lot of business in India here and 112 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: my past life, and I can tell you they are 113 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: the most some pretty brutal negotiations. But it's really important 114 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 2: that we do the very best we can. We secure 115 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 2: the best outcome we can. So it will take as 116 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,679 Speaker 2: long as it takes. But you know, to be honest, 117 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 2: today and our bilaterals, we were making it pretty clear 118 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: to our teams on all sides that we wanted to 119 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 2: get on with it. And that's really helpful, big large 120 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: Indian system that's you know, got to negotiate agreements with 121 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 2: the US now, you know, we want to make sure 122 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 2: the system knows that actually this is a priority for 123 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: both prime ministers and let's get on to it. 124 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: Having said that, Ursula Vandeline EU said they have it done. 125 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: She thought by the end of the year, shouldn't we 126 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: be aiming for that in that sense and state that 127 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: and being a bit bold about it. 128 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 2: Yes, that's my expectation privately, and I think that would 129 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 2: be promise to motives and we might even try and 130 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: push even harder. But you know, we will push as 131 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 2: hard as we can to say stay focused. We know, 132 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: you know what the lay of the land looks like, 133 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: given the work that we've put into before we even 134 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: committed to launching these negotiations. So yeah, we know where 135 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: the issues will be difficult. But actually it's about a mentality, frankly, Mike, 136 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: which is that you know, this is a country he 137 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 2: z only needs to grow and then need to get 138 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 2: money into people's back pockets. And when you actually have 139 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: you know, with I think in the six year period 140 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 2: under the previous mistrature we declined like seventeen percent with 141 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: two way trade with India. You know, it's two or 142 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 2: three billion, three billion dollars. Now that's hardly anything in 143 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 2: the scheme of a country the size that it is, 144 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: with the wealth that it has. It's our twelfth biggest partner, 145 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: it's one point five percent of our exports and deserves 146 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: to be much bigger than that, and we have to 147 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 2: try and so but I can tell you, like we've 148 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 2: got a great delegation with us and even tonight we've 149 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 2: had a fantastic function with them, just hearing some of 150 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: the excitement that they've got and whether it's in the services, 151 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 2: whether it's in the sports world, where it's in the 152 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 2: education world, even the primary industries. There's you know, we've 153 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: got a lot of value added products and services that 154 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 2: are unavailable here in this market. So I think there's 155 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 2: lots of ways to skin this cat. 156 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: Explain and you would be an expert in this area 157 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: from a previous life. Explain to me. Given the immigration flow, 158 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: particularly from India to New Zealand, why is it that 159 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: the New Zealand doesn't go direct? Why can't I go 160 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: from Auckland to Delhi, Orkland, Tommy Auckland at anywhere in India. 161 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm pushing all the aligns really hard because 162 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 2: I actually think you're right. I think we're are at 163 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 2: a point where actually I haven't seen recent analysis. I 164 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 2: looked at it maybe ten years ago, and I think, 165 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 2: you know, the growth in the numbers of international tourists, 166 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 2: international students member every student brings in three or four 167 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: other visitors in a given year, you know, there's a 168 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: really good case to say there must be demand starting 169 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 2: to build from at least New Delhi or Mumbai into 170 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: Auckland directly. So I know ourrealines on both sides are 171 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: actually very keen to try and see whether they can 172 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,559 Speaker 2: work together to make that happen. But the major issue, 173 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: to be honest, Mike, is actually demand, and you've got 174 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: to make sure that. You know, when you've got capital 175 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: deployed with two big aircraft doing a daily service, you've 176 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: got to cover costs. It's expensive, but equally you've got 177 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: to have confidence to go grow this market. And this 178 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,119 Speaker 2: is a market where the middle classes are just growing 179 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: at such a rate. I mean, Mody said to me 180 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: tonight over dinner. He said, they need two thousand more aircraft. 181 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: They started with seventy airports, they have one hundred and 182 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: fifty and they're heading to two hundred and fifty in 183 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: the next three or four years. So you know, as 184 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: people are but you know, two hundred and fifty million 185 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: people have been lifted out of poverty, and as they 186 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: go into the middle class, you know, they're saving money 187 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: for retirement, they want to go traveling, they want to 188 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 2: make sure they invest in their kids' education, and so 189 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 2: you know, we've got to get our share of that money. 190 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: And that's why I think, you know the time is 191 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 2: right to revisit air routes and direct services as well. 192 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: While I've got you and we had Peter's on the program, yesterday. 193 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: What's your expectation of the Peter's Rubio meeting tomorrow. 194 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: Well, it's just really making sure that we've got good 195 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: connectivity into the administration. I think, as I'd said to 196 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: you before, you know, President Trump and I've had a 197 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: good connection. Secretary Rubio and Peter's have actually I already 198 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 2: had a conversation in person. Now it's about putting that 199 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 2: relationship together. And obviously Judith Collins has had a good 200 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: relationship with Peter Higseth in a good call as well. 201 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 2: So really we've set up as said system last year, 202 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 2: if you remember where we said, we want the Secretary 203 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 2: of State and the Foreign Minister have a formal meeting 204 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 2: at least once a year, and it just means that 205 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 2: we cannot go into a period of time like we'd 206 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: previously experienced where there wasn't a lot of deep connectivity 207 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: at the top to top level. And so really it's 208 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: a good chance for those two to build a good 209 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: relationship talk about some issues in the region and obviously 210 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 2: around the world. 211 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: All right, go well for the rest of the week. 212 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: Appreciate a Prime Minister Christoph Luxon out of India this morning. 213 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Hosking Breakfast. Listen live to 214 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: News Talk Set B from six am weekdays, or follow 215 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio