1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: Even in coming up in the next hour, Shane Soley 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: is going to talk us through the oil price and 3 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: the implications of the spike. A law lecturer on why 4 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: we need rules for asteroid mining. Yep, it's a real thing. 5 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: And Gavin Gray is with us out of the UK 6 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: at seven pass six and with us now as per 7 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: usual on a Monday. Nikola willis the Finance Minister. High Nicholer. 8 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: Good evening, Heather, how do you rate the possibility that 9 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: we will have to ration fuel? 10 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 2: Well? At the stage we have good fuel security. We 11 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: have around twenty nine days worth a fuel stock in 12 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 2: the country and a similar amount on the water on 13 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 2: its way here, so there's no immediate threat to fuel security. 14 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,319 Speaker 2: We've stood up our response group to that, so we're 15 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 2: working with industry to monitor that very closely. We're also 16 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,639 Speaker 2: members of the International Energy Agency that if there were 17 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 2: to be a global shock to fuel security, has a 18 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: number of options without steps on to act. 19 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: Okay, So, apart from apart from the fact that you 20 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: guys have the powers to ration fuel if necessary, what 21 00:00:59,280 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: else can you do? 22 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: Well? Right now we can assure New Zealander is that 23 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: there's enough fuel for at least sixty days and then 24 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: beyond that, of course, fuel companies will be responsible for 25 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 2: having their own orders in and ensuring that that can 26 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 2: come to New Zealand. And we are members of the 27 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 2: International Energy Agency, which will have the options of increasing 28 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: supply tickets for future supply to come in, and of 29 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 2: course as part of our monitoring, there are always options 30 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 2: down the line if there's not abundant fuel in the world, 31 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 2: but we haven't given consideration to specific proposals there yet 32 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: because there's no need to at this stage. 33 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: Okay, what I'm trying to get to is because I 34 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: asked Shane Jones a similar thing and didn't get an 35 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: adequate response. I mean, it sounds very cool that you 36 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: guys have set up a ministerial oversight group, but what 37 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: actually are you doing apart from just your jobs. 38 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: Well, we have an incident management group at the Ministry 39 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: for Business and what they do is they work with 40 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: the fuel importation company needs that retailers, fuel users to 41 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: understand what the picture is looking like. So if they 42 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 2: were to say, look, we're actually having difficulties getting future 43 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 2: orders of fuel, we would have very advanced warning of 44 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 2: that and that would provide us time to respond. 45 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: But isn't that basically just what happens with the energy 46 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: ministry anyway, Like you didn't have to set up this group, 47 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: this is just running a country. 48 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: Well, the particular thing that happens is we work much 49 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 2: more closely with industry, fuel importers and retailers to be 50 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: getting real time information about what they're seeing happening in markets, 51 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: and then we engage with our international counterparts, so Australia, 52 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: the US and others, to understand what their likely responses 53 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: are to that. As you appreciate, they have options in 54 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 2: terms of OPEQ, in terms of which oil supplies they 55 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 2: release into the global market and how they ensure that 56 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: fuel is able to reach countries around the world, because 57 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: of course it's in everyone's interests that there aren't global 58 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: fuel shortages. 59 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: Are you going to I've got a surprise. A number 60 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: of text of our surprised me at just how many 61 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: techs I'm getting raising concerns about how fast the oil companies, 62 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: that the petrol companies are moving to push up the price. 63 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: Are you monitoring what's going on there that they're not 64 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: just going to gouge us? 65 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: Yes, we are, And overnight we've asked the commerce Commission 66 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: to step up it's monitoring of what's happening with fuel pricing. 67 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: Of course, we do expect there will be market movements 68 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: as those global prices increase, but this should not be 69 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: an opportunity for fuel companies to gouge or to make 70 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: unreasonable hikes in prices. So the Commerce Commission are watching 71 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: that carefully and they stand ready to act if we 72 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: do see perverse market behavior. 73 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: Oka Now, have you actually decided that you will delay 74 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: the tax the tax increase on the fuel price for 75 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: next year or are you just considering this? 76 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: Well, I've simply acknowledged that Cabinet has not yet considered 77 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: the legislation that would be required to affect that tax increase, 78 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 2: and when we do give consideration to that, you will 79 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: need to be mindful of market conditions at the time. So, 80 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: simply as part of being a responsible government, we would 81 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: have to look at, well, what's happening with petrol prices 82 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: across the economy and what does that mean. And I'm 83 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: just being an adult and saying the consequences of not 84 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 2: increasing petrol tax would be that there's less money available 85 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 2: to maintain the roads, to rebuild roads after major weather 86 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 2: events are less money available to build the new roads 87 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: that New Zealanders want to see. So we would have 88 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 2: to weigh that up at the time based on the 89 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: best information we have, and that's several months away that consideration. 90 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: And is it a hard no to cutting the fuel 91 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: excise tax or just a no for now? 92 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: It's not something we're considering at this time. I'm mindful 93 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: that petrol tax hasn't increased since twenty twenty and the 94 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: last government when it did affect what was meant to 95 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 2: be a short term reduction in the fuel price, ended 96 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: up extending that it came with a big cost around 97 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 2: a billion dollars. And again we're just being realistic about 98 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: the fact that that would have an impact both either 99 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: in terms of debt or it would have an impact 100 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: in terms of road maintenance. So we need to weigh 101 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,559 Speaker 2: that up because short term gain could equal medium term pain. 102 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 2: And it is too early for us to have a 103 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: knee jerk reaction to what has been a considerable spike 104 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 2: in oil prices in recent days. We need to keep 105 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 2: monitoring the situation. We're not actively considering fuel subsidies at 106 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 2: this time. 107 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: Have you got to the stage yet where you are 108 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: having to rethink anything in your budget, which is in 109 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: a couple of months. 110 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 2: No. What I did get late last week was the 111 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 2: preliminary fiscal forecasts based on what we've seen since the 112 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: December update, and that was painting a much rosier picture 113 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: than I presented to you in December. What that showed 114 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 2: was that we were on track to have a better 115 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 2: operating valunary. 116 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: I know, but what has happened in the run and 117 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: that's fine and I'm aware of that, But what has 118 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: happened in around has changed things potentially from here on. 119 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: And have you had any indication you may have to 120 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: rethink the budget? Was it too early? 121 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: Well? I have absolutely had an indication that if this 122 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: crisis is prolonged and continues, and these very high oil 123 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 2: prices are sustained four months or even longer, that will 124 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 2: have an effect on inflation here at home. 125 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: When do you have to mean, You've got two months 126 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: in the budgets happening, So when do you have to 127 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: start thinking about whether you rework the budget? 128 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 2: Well? I get my final economic forecasts on the first 129 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 2: of April, so that's when I know what is the 130 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: outlock for the New Zealand economy, and there will be 131 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: time at that juncture to assess, for given that what 132 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: does that mean for the spending decisions that the government 133 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: makes for this year's budget. So there will be time 134 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: to react to that if need be. 135 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: Okay, Nikola, why didn't you fully back Chris Luxon on Friday? 136 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 2: I did? 137 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: You didn't? You were asked, I had the right guy? 138 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: You were asked, is he the right guy? And you 139 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: didn't say yes? 140 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 2: I said he had the backing of the National Party caucus. 141 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 2: Describe it, said yes? 142 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: Do you want to try again there? Yes? 143 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: And I heard you Fiscim the interview late last week, 144 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 2: and I thought, actually that you were being quite an 145 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: imaginary artist in terms of your reading between lines that 146 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,239 Speaker 2: simply weren't things that I said. I was very clear 147 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: that not only does the Prime Minister have my backing, 148 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: he has the backing of our entire National Party caucus, 149 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: he has the backing of our government and he is 150 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: doing an excellent job. And to try and read anything 151 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: other than those precise statements into what I said, I 152 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: think is just mischief making. Well. 153 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,679 Speaker 1: I mean, I've been around long enough to know exactly 154 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: what you were doing by not answering that question directly. 155 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: And I've been around long enough to see mischief making 156 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: by the media for many, many years. And as much 157 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 2: as you were accusing me of mischief, you were not 158 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: immune from it. 159 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: Are you accusing me right now? How? 160 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,239 Speaker 2: Yes? Because I backed the Prime Minister. I am loyal 161 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 2: to the Prime Minister. And that's exactly what I laid 162 00:07:58,720 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 2: out on Friday. 163 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: Is this coming up at caucus tomorrow? 164 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: Well, we don't discuss what we discuss at caucus. Caucus 165 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: as a private meeting where we discuss upcoming policy, legislation 166 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: and other issues of the day. 167 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: All right, nick Ella, thank you very much for the 168 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: time appreciated. It's called Nicola Willis Finance Minister. For more 169 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news Talks 170 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 171 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.