1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: Nikola Willis, finance ministers with US High Nichola, Hi, Can 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: I just start by talking to you about the insurance buyouts. 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by this. This is sorry, the weather related 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: buyouts and the insurance. Have we as a country decided 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: no to the buyouts? 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: Well, we have a natural hazard scheme where everyone who 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 2: has home insurance pays a levy and that goes towards 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: the Natural Hazards Fund. And what that means is if 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: because of flooding or landslide there is damage to your land, 10 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 2: you are insured by the state insurer to partially recover that. 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 2: And if there's a landslide to your actual home, you 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: also get insurance coverage for that. So we do have 13 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: that coverage in place. 14 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, what about the case of west Aukland getting flooded 15 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: and then wanting their houses bought out? Have we put 16 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: is there a line in the sand on that no more? 17 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: Or have we not reached that line yet? 18 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 2: There haven't been any discussions about that. As I say, 19 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: We've got the natural hazard scheme there and we always 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,559 Speaker 2: encourage people that if they can take out insurance, they should. 21 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: Okay, So when do we draw a line? Because Simon 22 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: watts as indicated we will be When will. 23 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 2: That be Well, certainly, as I've said, we're not having 24 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: discussions about it in the context of the recent weather events. 25 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 2: We have that National Insurance Commission there for a reason. 26 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 2: It's there to provide limited coverage in the event of 27 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: hazardous natural hazards, be that earthquaker weather. 28 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about that necessarily, the weather that we 29 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: were struck with just recently. I'm just meaning in general. 30 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: So we clearly haven't drawn a line just yet. At 31 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 1: what point are we talking five years, ten years, fifteen years, 32 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: twenty years. 33 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 2: Well, well, in a sense, we have really clear policy settings, 34 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: and that is why I'm continuing to refer that to 35 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: the Natural Hazards Fund Because in New Zealand, if you 36 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 2: own a property, generally if you've got a mortgage, your 37 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: bank requires you to have insurance. And at the point 38 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: you have insurance, you also have some government cover for 39 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: damage to your land and buildings that may occur. So 40 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: that insurance is there, and our message has been a 41 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: really clear one, which is you don't want to be 42 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: in a situation where people who don't get insurance get 43 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: paid out, whereas those people have paid their premiums their 44 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 2: whole life get the same amount of coverage. So there 45 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: is a bit of moral hazard there if you start 46 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: covering people who chose not to ensure. 47 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: But we do cover people who chose not to ensure, right, 48 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: We do this all the time. So this is why 49 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: I I mean, the default at the moment is if 50 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: you really really need help and you've got absolutely no 51 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: one else to turn to, you can turn to the 52 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: government and they'll buy your house. That's the default, at 53 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: least in people's minds. When are we going to change that. 54 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 2: Well, as I've said, that's certainly not in discussions in 55 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 2: the context of and. 56 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: Need to have discussions about that because we cannot keep 57 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: buying people's stuff. It's going to cost us billions of dollars. 58 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 2: Well, I'd put it to you the other way around, 59 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: which is to say we need to send a clear 60 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: message that actually, when you choose where to buy your home, 61 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: part of the assessment you need to make is about 62 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: whether that is a safe place to have your home. Now, 63 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: the council has a really important job and our government 64 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 2: actually in January this year made very clear directives to 65 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 2: every local government authority that they need to make it 66 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 2: clear on their maps where the hazards are, what the 67 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: risks are to property, whether from flooding and in ditation, 68 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: sea level rise, are the risks, so that bars can 69 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: be aware when they go to purchase a property what 70 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: risks come with it, and then they need to make 71 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 2: their purchasing and insurance decisions accordingly. And we've seen the 72 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: insurance companies moving in this space. They're in some cases 73 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: increasing their levees in areas which are higher risk, and 74 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: in some cases there's evidence that's starting to be reflected 75 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: in property prices. That is to say, people aren't paying 76 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 2: as much for properties in flood planing areas or areas 77 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: where there may be sea level rise in the future. 78 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: Okay, what is the consideration at the moment? Why are 79 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: we taking our time with the Trump administration mineral strategy business? 80 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: Why don't we just sign the thing? 81 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 2: Well? New Zealand has been having discussions with the United 82 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 2: States alongside many other countries about critical minerals. Of course, 83 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 2: the US has concluded agreements with some countries, but I 84 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 2: understand they're underway and discussions with around forty other countries 85 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 2: and we're working our way through this to see what 86 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: we can get that's a framework that progresses New Zealand's 87 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: economic growth and resilience. And of course we're just talking 88 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: through the detail of. 89 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: That this offer. It's signing one of these deals. Does 90 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: it preclude us from selling the same stuff to China? 91 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: Because it's a China The US game here isn't it? 92 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 1: So if we sign it, do we have to sell 93 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 1: it so the good guys are not to China? 94 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 2: Well, New Zealand's approach is not aimed at any country. 95 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: It's grounded in our own trade and economic interests. And 96 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: it has been a condition of all of these deals 97 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 2: that the United States has done with other countries that 98 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: they are non binding. 99 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,239 Speaker 1: Okay, so we will not stop us selling it to others. 100 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 2: Well, as I say, we haven't signed up to a 101 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 2: framework yet, and what we're doing is pursuing our strong 102 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 2: interest and developing the critical mineral sector. If we've got 103 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: really valuable things under the ground, we do want to 104 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 2: see people investing in responsibly mining those for use. That's 105 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: good for the economy and we do want to see 106 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: New Zealanders getting jobs and it comes out of that. 107 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: So working with the US and others to do that 108 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: makes sense. 109 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: Do we know how much we've got under the ground, 110 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: like have we quantified it? 111 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: Well, there is some mapping that's gone on, but that's 112 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,679 Speaker 2: actually an area that the Ministry for Business is looking 113 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 2: into more to get some more information about exactly what 114 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: we do have in New Zealand and take. 115 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: Well. 116 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 2: Of course, naturally people tend to do that investigation when 117 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: they're deciding to explore for themselves. And we have a 118 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 2: goal as a government to increase our exports of minerals 119 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 2: and resources because we think that that's a source of 120 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: considerable wealth for the future. 121 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: Okay, how long is it going to take to find 122 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 1: out how much we've got under that? Like are we 123 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: talking gears on months? 124 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: Well, we do have some information, but there's it's always 125 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 2: a matter of getting more information. When people look into 126 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: a particular geographic location where there might have been some 127 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: indicative data that says there's some and then they might 128 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: explore it further to see, well, just how dense is it, 129 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 2: how much is there what would be the extraction and 130 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 2: processing required to get it out? 131 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: Did you see the Herald analysis on the fees free 132 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: policy last week? 133 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 2: Yes? I did, and you know what I told you 134 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 2: so I said the minute Labor announced that policy. This 135 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: is not going to help a single child from an 136 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: underprivileged background. 137 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: It to no, no, no, don't do that. Don't be 138 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: doing that. Why haven't you cut it then? 139 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 2: Well, because we've completely changed the policy and as in 140 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 2: our agreement with New Zealand first, instead of getting a 141 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 2: first year fees free. Well no, but heither hear me out, 142 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 2: because your listeners may not be aware of this, and I've. 143 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: Just twitched it the change to the last year. You 144 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: don't have to over explain it. It's pretty small. 145 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: It's a pretty big difference because here's the thing. You 146 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: can only get it if you complete the qualification whatever. 147 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,119 Speaker 2: What we don't want to be doing is paying people 148 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 2: to have it here and have some fun. 149 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: Does make a difference. If it's the first. 150 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: Free, well, it considerably reduces the cost here this so 151 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 2: it makes a difference from my perspective looking at the box, 152 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: that's for sure for everyone who just wants to have 153 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: some fun for a year. We're actually only going to 154 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: help people with the fees for that final year if 155 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: they complete their link. 156 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: Time I spoke to you about it, you said you 157 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: were going to talk to Uncle Winston and find out 158 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: whether you were allowed to cut it. Have you had 159 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: that conversation. 160 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 2: I have spoken with his office and Love indicated that 161 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: the coalition agreement stands. What National agreed with New Zealand 162 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: first was that we would change fees free to final 163 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: years fees free and you're not allowed to leave. They 164 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: have They've indicated they're not very interested in that at 165 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: this moment. And of course my job is to go 166 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 2: and find the money so that we can invest in 167 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 2: defense force capability. 168 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: No, no, no, Daddy, that's enough. You got the answer that 169 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: I wanted. Next question is are you going to campaign 170 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: on this or would you consider after the next election, 171 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: if you're free of Winston, would you cut it? 172 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 2: Well, I think we do need to look at whether 173 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: it achieves anything. And I'm conscious that we have a 174 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: really high rate of subsidy for New Zealand tertiary students. 175 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: The government pays north of seventy five percent of the 176 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: overall cost of your tertiary education. People think you're paying 177 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 2: for it because you're borrowing alone. Well, that's only for 178 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 2: about twenty five percent of the cost. The government cuverly 179 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: subsidizing the rest. Well, look, that's something that our caucus 180 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: will have to consider, but I'm of the view that 181 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 2: we should always be looking to see that dollars are 182 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: having the maximum impact. 183 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, Nicole, appreciate it. Nichola Willis, Finance Minister. 184 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplicy Allen Drive. Listen live to 185 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 186 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,599 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.