1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:00,240 Speaker 1: Now. 2 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 2: Health Minister Simeon Brown this morning accused senior doctors of 3 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 2: crossing an ethical line by striking pretty tough talk. It 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 2: was met with boos and jeers, because, of course, he 5 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 2: delivered it at the Doctors Union's annual conference. 6 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 3: When a union chooses strike action that forces thousands of 7 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 3: operations and appointments to be canceled, in my view, it 8 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 3: crosses an ethical line. Doctors take on a professional duty. 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: Sarah Dalton is the executive director of the Association of 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: Salaried Medical Specialists. Hi Sarah, Hi Heaver, How it going good? 11 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: Thank you? So why the booing and jeering? Do you think? 12 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: I think our members were genuinely shocked at the way 13 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: the minister chose to characterize his strike action, and I 14 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: guess his refusal to contemplate all of the many things 15 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: in the health system are getting away of them being 16 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: able to see and treat patients other than a for 17 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: our strike next week. 18 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: Okay, So is it a case of doctors simply being frustrated? 19 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: I mean it sounds like doctors are frustrated they can't 20 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: get more money. 21 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's reasonable thing for any working person 22 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: to want their attens and conditions to keep pace with 23 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: cost of less living, you know, and also for doctors, 24 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: as we know we're really struggling to attract and retain 25 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: our senior medical indental workforce we rely on and overseas workforce. 26 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: They can go to Australia. As one of our guests 27 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: that conference said today, thank you for training our future 28 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: medical workforce. They can earn heaps more over there. So 29 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 1: we just really need to attend to being realistic about 30 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: holding on to the doctors we really need. 31 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 2: Sarah. I mean, I'm sorry to say this, but isn't 32 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 2: he right that an ethical line has been crossed? 33 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: I don't believe. So they're working people with rights to 34 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: protest if, for example, the employer refuses to bargain with them. 35 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: Our last who offers to go to mediation with helps 36 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: New Zealand to progress this have been refused, But you. 37 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: Were offering just this month, you guys, these doctors were 38 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: offered the opportunity to go to final arbitration. It would 39 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: have settled, it would have been fair, and they chose 40 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: instead to strike. 41 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: Well, we aren't confident there's no formal arbitration process in 42 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: place in New Zealand. That is not the legislative framework 43 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: that we're under. It's some of the Employment Relations Authority 44 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: and that's about facilitated bargaining or in the case of 45 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: Healthy Zealand, they are making a pitch for fixing. We 46 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: don't believe they'll make that test. We think it is 47 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: it is fair, lawful right to ratify a settlement that 48 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: is negotiated between the union and the employer, which you can't. 49 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: That's the point, right, So you guys are unable to 50 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: reach a settlement with each other. I'm not saying it's 51 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 2: your fault or their fault. It simply you are unable 52 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: to reach a point together. Final arbitration would have sorted that. 53 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 2: So you guys chose not to go to it. You 54 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 2: chose to strike. 55 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: We chose to go back to the table. I mean 56 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: arbitration doesn't as a minister described it doesn't exist as 57 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: a framework in the country. So he was kind of 58 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: making a bit of a pitch. 59 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: He was for the imp loots of people go to 60 00:02:58,280 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 2: final arbitration. 61 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: I don't believe they do final arbitration. That is a 62 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: specific arrangement for the police, and that is because in 63 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: part they are not allowed to take strike action, unlike 64 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: most of it. 65 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: So the framework does exist, Sarah. So it would simply 66 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 2: be that police. Yeah, but what's the problem You simply 67 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 2: transfer it to s There's nothing special about doctors as 68 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: opposed to police. They could simply arbitrate in the same way. 69 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: I guess that's one lens that you can bring to it. 70 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: But our executive and our members believe that this can 71 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: be settled. We don't think it is that hard to settle. 72 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: But it would require Health New Zealand to lift the 73 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: office somewhat from where it sits at the moment. 74 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: And you guys have put yourself in the position where 75 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 2: what Simeon Brown has said actually lands with people because 76 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 2: we have seen you guys reject the offer to take 77 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: it to final arbitration and settle the thing once and 78 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: for all, and instead choose to strike. So when he 79 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 2: says you guys have crossed an ethical line, he may 80 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 2: actually find this fertile ground. Don't you think. 81 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: It's not the way we see it. And I don't 82 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: think you're right about the points you're making about arbitration. 83 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: But as I've said, we are happy to continue the conversation. 84 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: We believe that there are ways forward, and we were 85 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: happy to accept the mediation services offer to support our bargaining. 86 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: It's not us who are refusing to do that, it 87 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: is the employer. We would really like Healthy Zealand to 88 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: come back to the table. We had Dale Bramley, who's 89 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: the chief executive, talk with our executive just this week. 90 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: He's really keen to keep talking with us and working 91 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: with us. I believe the door should be open, and 92 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: I'm also consumed based on what the minister said to 93 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: our conference today that he isn't being accurately briefed by 94 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: the officials who are leading negotiation negotiations. 95 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 2: Sarah, listen, thank you very much, appreciate it, Go back 96 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: and enjoy the conference. That's Sarah Dulton, the executive director 97 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists. 98 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 3: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 99 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 3: news talks the'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 100 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: the podcast on iHeartRadio.