1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Kilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is a bonus episode 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: of The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by The 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: New Zealand Herald. Joe Biden is stepping down from the 4 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: US presidential election race. He says his decision to stand 5 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: down is in the best interest of his party and 6 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: the country. Biden has endorsed Kamala Harris, the current Vice President, 7 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: to be the new Democratic candidate, along with a string 8 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: of other key Democrats. It comes just four months before 9 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: Americans go to the polls. Today, on the Front Page, 10 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: geopolitical analyst at the Democracy Project Jeffrey Miller is with 11 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: us to explain what happens next. What do you make 12 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: of biden decision to step down? Is this, as he said, 13 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: in the best interest? 14 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 2: Look, it was a surprise, and yet not a surprise. 15 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 2: The last three weeks have been dominated by all kinds 16 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 2: of chatter about Joe Biden, whether he would continue. It 17 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: all started with that disastrous debate on the twenty seventh 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 2: of June, and it didn't really get any better after that. 19 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: Biden gave all kinds of one on one interviews that 20 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: were designed to kind of shore up his position, but 21 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: they only made things worse, and he continued to make 22 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: gaff after gaff, the most significant of which was probably 23 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: when he described the lot of Mezelenski as the president 24 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: of Russia. So it really didn't get better. In the 25 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: midst of that, of course, you had the assassination on 26 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, and then the Republican National Convention last week, 27 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: at which the Republicans look incredibly unified with their new 28 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: vice presidential candidate jd Vance And in the end Biden's 29 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: position became untenable. He got COVID and he regrouped with 30 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 2: family and made that final decision to out of the race. 31 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,279 Speaker 2: In some ways, yes, you can give Joe Biden credit 32 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: for doing this, and I've seen various descriptions. I think 33 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: Barack Obama described him as a patriot of the highest order. 34 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: And yet it's all very very late, And this could 35 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 2: have been done a year ago. If it had been 36 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: done a year ago and Biden had made his decision, 37 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: then I'm not going to stand for a second term. 38 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: It would have been I think it would have been 39 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: a courageous decision, and it would have given others in 40 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 2: the Democratic Party a chance against Carmala Harris. As it 41 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 2: stands now, it's being done what three months out from 42 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 2: the election or thereabouts, and it really leaves most challenges 43 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 2: with really little hope. So essentially we're going to see 44 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: a crown and a coronation of Carmala Harris. I don't 45 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 2: think that's particularly democratic or small de democratic, as the 46 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: Americans say, and I think you can blame some of 47 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: the blame for that at Biden and his advisors, but 48 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: also at the Democratic Party. I mean, they went through 49 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: a primary process last year and rubber stamped Joe Biden's candidacy, 50 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 2: and yet it was clear that Biden was aging, it 51 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 2: was having difficulties. It's been clear for the last year 52 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: or more. There've been all kinds of videos circulating showing 53 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: Joe Biden and some of his gaffes. These are not new. 54 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: While it may have come into sharper focus with this debate, 55 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: this talk has been around for a very long time, 56 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: and it's been dismissed often by Democratic operatives as you know, 57 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: conspiracy theories and this is just right wing attempts to 58 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: undermine Joe Biden. But actually there was some real substance 59 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 2: to that, and that all became apparent on that debate stage. 60 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 2: What three weeks ago, making sure that we're able to 61 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 2: make every single solitary person. 62 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: Eligible for what I've been able to do with the 63 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: with the covid ice could be with dealing with everything 64 00:03:51,040 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: we have to do with Look, if we finally beat Medicare. Yeah, 65 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: well it's taken about a month, hey for him to 66 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: resign since that disastrous debate, and the calls urging him 67 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: to pull out only grew over the last week since 68 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: Trump's assassination attempt. It's interesting watching this unfold from the 69 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: other side of the world, hey, where it's perhaps not 70 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: uncommon for party leaders to face calls to go. How 71 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: has the US handled that debate? 72 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: Well, look, it's so late. As I said, the fact 73 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: is that Joe Biden was rubber stamped as the candidate, 74 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 2: so it was ready then up to him whether to withdraw. 75 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 2: In the end, he could have continued, and we were 76 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: told as late as Saturday that he was absolutely committed 77 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: to staying in the race and was going to be 78 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: out campaigning this week. So in the end, perhaps Biden's 79 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: hand was forced to a degree, But there is no 80 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: real mechanism once you're the nominee. That is the process. 81 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 2: He got through that primary process and was agreed upon 82 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 2: as the Democratic nominee for presidents. So in the New 83 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: Zealand context, it's a bit different, isn't it, Because it's 84 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: a parliamentary system here. We don't have a president, so 85 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: it is a different process. And of course the comparisons 86 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 2: that come to mind Jisindhdurn resigning as Prime Minister and 87 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: the Labor Party leader last year and paving the way 88 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 2: for Chris Hipkins. I guess you could look back to 89 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: Andrew Little making way for Cisinderadun a couple of months 90 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: before the election in twenty seventeen is another comparison point. 91 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 2: But in the end, I guess the comparisons always fall 92 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 2: down in the end. It's a very very different system. 93 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 2: Different quantities of money, certainly in the American system is 94 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: just one big difference. And there's a huge war chest 95 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: now behind Carmala Harris, and that will be one of 96 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: the things that gives her just a huge advantage of 97 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: any other challenges. She has essentially inherits the Biden Harris 98 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 2: campaign war chest. There have been some filings already on that, 99 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 2: so she will inherit all the donations that have been 100 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 2: made to the Biden Harris campaign and money does mean 101 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 2: an awful lot in US politics. 102 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: Donald Trump has come out and said that Harris will 103 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: be easier to beat than Biden. What do you think 104 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: of that match up but the lawyer versus the felon 105 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: I guess. 106 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 2: Look, I don't know. I think Karmala Harris will be fine. 107 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 2: I think she'll be a lot better than a lot 108 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 2: of her critics. It will be expecting. At the same time, 109 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 2: even the most stellar candidate on Earth would struggle at 110 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: this point, taking over three in months before the election 111 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: and suddenly having to go up against the Trump machine. 112 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: The Republicans are completely unified between Donald Trump and JD. Vance, 113 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 2: the vice presidential candidate. They had a very successful convention 114 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 2: last week. There's a lot of sympathy out there. I 115 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 2: guess for Donald Trump after that assassination attempt against him, 116 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 2: it's going to be hard. As I say, even the 117 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 2: most stellar candidate on Earth would struggle against that. So 118 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: there will be a huge mountain to climb for Karmala Harris. 119 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 2: I think that's who it will be in the end. 120 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 2: I think the Democratic machine, the Democratic establishment, is getting 121 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: behind Carmala Harris. You're seeing these as from the likes 122 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: of Joe Biden himself, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi are the 123 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: top Democrats, so I don't think there are many others 124 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: with a chance. So she's going to have all the 125 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: backing from the Democratic establishment. That will certainly help to 126 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: a degree. And yet it's also going to be easy 127 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: for others like Trump to claim while it's been a 128 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: stitch up, because in many ways it has, it hasn't 129 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 2: been really a fair primary on the Democratic side. So 130 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: we wait and see how Kamala Harris managers. No doubt 131 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 2: she'll be going up against Donald Trump and that debate 132 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: in September. There's a second TV debate scheduled, and it 133 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 2: won't be Joe Biden now, but it will be an 134 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 2: all likelihood Kamala Harris against Donald Trump. While I may 135 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: be the first woman in this office, I will not 136 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: be the last. 137 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: Do you think America is actually ready though, to vote 138 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: for a black South Asian female president when they didn't 139 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: want to pick Hillary Clinton. 140 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,679 Speaker 2: Look, these discussions have been had before. If you recall 141 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: back to Barack Obama in two thousand and eight, there's 142 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 2: an awful lot of inks built and discussions had over 143 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: whether America was ready for their first black president. I 144 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: think perhaps actually Americans are a bit more mature than 145 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 2: we sometimes give them credit for. And I think Karmala 146 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: Harris will be fine. I think she will be probably 147 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: a worthy challenger to Donald Trump. But Donald Trump has 148 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: got a huge machine behind him. And unity is just 149 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: so powerful in politics, whether it is in New Zealand 150 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: or in the United States, and the Republicans are just 151 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: so unified now. There is a never Trump wing to 152 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: the party, but it's very small now compared with say 153 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen or during the Trump presidency. The Trump machine 154 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 2: has just been very successful. And Trump, despite all of 155 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: his criminal trials and tribulations, he's more popular than ever. 156 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 2: So He's gone through an assassination attempt and is still 157 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 2: standing and is more popular than ever. It's going to 158 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 2: take a lot, an awful lot, to defeat that. But 159 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 2: I don't think in the end Kamala Harris's ethnicity, gender 160 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: will really pay much of a role in that. We 161 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 2: wait and see. I mean, an awful lot can happen, 162 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 2: and the predictions are a very dangerous thing to make. 163 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: If we've been recording this interview a month ago, Goodness meet, 164 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 2: how different things would look and three and a half months, 165 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: a lot can happen still in this race. 166 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: Could people vote for Harris simply because she isn't Trump 167 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: or Biden. 168 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: I think that will be very much the strategy. Kamala 169 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 2: Harris used the line that she was the anti Trump 170 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: in her campaign adds back in twenty twenty when she 171 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 2: was in the presidential race or trying to get the 172 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: Democratic nomination, and you know, that's probably the best card 173 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: she has to try and convince people to vote for 174 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: her both because of who she is. I think there 175 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: will be plenty of Democrats who do genuinely like her, 176 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: and plenty of voters who do genuinely like her and 177 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: appreciate her. But then there will be plenty of others 178 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: who in the end vote for her because she's not Trump. 179 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: And that's I guess a valid strategy as well. No 180 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 2: doubt there will be all kinds of scare campaigns and 181 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 2: tactics used by the Democrats to reach that goal. You know, 182 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 2: in the end, it's a simple numbers game, and it's 183 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 2: all about appealing to the swing voters. And around about 184 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 2: ten states in the United States which are the swing states, 185 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: that's you know, the likes of Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and 186 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: in the end, those voters that hold all the cards 187 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 2: here in the American system. So whatever appeals to those 188 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 2: swing state voters, I think those will be the strategies 189 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 2: that are employed by the Democratic campaign. 190 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: Just lastly, Jeffrey, Logistically, what happens next. 191 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: Look, there are a lot of arcane rules and procedures 192 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 2: from the Democratic National Committee, and I wouldn't pretend to 193 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 2: know all the ins and outs of it all. But 194 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 2: there was some talk before Biden made his decision that 195 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: there would be a virtual confirmation of his candidacy before 196 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 2: the Democratic National Convenent, which is scheduled to be held 197 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 2: in Chicago in a month's time, so it could have 198 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 2: been in early August. We wait and see. That could 199 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 2: still happen in Karmala Harris is rubber stamped. But in 200 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: the end there's a process to go through, and around 201 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 2: three nine hundred delegates who have pledged to support Joe Biden, 202 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 2: in all likelihood they're going to be backing Kamala Harris now, 203 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 2: so that's why largely it's going to be a foregone 204 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 2: conclusion in my view. But yes, formally there's a convention, 205 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: a party conference if you like, in Chicago from the 206 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 2: nineteenth to twenty second of August. In theory, it could 207 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 2: go to what's called an open convention where the delegates 208 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: can choose whatever candidate they find best on the day 209 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 2: and practice. I think it's going to be a coronation 210 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: for Karmala Harris, and it will be signed up well 211 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 2: before then. And simply time is not on the Democrat side. 212 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: They're already incredibly late working out their candidate. I doubt 213 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 2: very much they're going to still be working out who's 214 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 2: going to be their candidate in a month's time. I 215 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: think it will all be sealed and there will be 216 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: a bit convention that was all about crowning Krmala Harris 217 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 2: as the nominee. 218 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Jeffrey. That said, for this episode 219 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: of The Front Page, you can read more about today's 220 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: stories and extensive news coverage at enzed Herald dot co 221 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: dot z. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Siles 222 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: with sound engineer Patty Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to 223 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, 224 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,599 Speaker 1: and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.