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Speaker 1: Hello.

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Speaker 2: I am Paula Benatt and welcome to my New Zealand

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Speaker 2: Herald podcast. Asked me anything, one thing I've learned in

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Speaker 2: life is it's never too late to learn something new.

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Speaker 2: So on this podcast I talked to people from all

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Speaker 2: walks of life to hear about how they got to

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Speaker 2: where they are, get some advice and guidance on some

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Speaker 2: of life's biggest questions today. It is one of our

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Speaker 2: greats in one of our rugby grats, but it's not

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Speaker 2: just rugby that Sir John Cowan as well known for.

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Speaker 2: He does tremendous work in the area of mental health.

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Speaker 2: We got told earlier this season. He's an incredible visionary

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Speaker 2: and the man behind so many of rex Aalizo's ideas.

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Speaker 2: He's also behind a newly announced world class, one hundred

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Speaker 2: million dollar surve part being developed in Auckland.

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Speaker 1: John also founded Mighty.

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Speaker 2: It is about primary prevention and strengthening children's mental health

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Speaker 2: and in the early years. I'm very excited to have

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Speaker 2: Sir John Kewan here.

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Speaker 1: Hi JK, Hi, Paula.

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Speaker 3: How are you? How is that he's looking forward to

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Speaker 3: coming and seeing you this story?

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Speaker 1: Oh good, I was. We'll have a good yarn.

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Speaker 4: We will good old fat yarn. As my kids were saying,

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Speaker 4: love us a fat yarn, Dad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think thank goodness for podcasts because it does give

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Speaker 2: us a bit more in depth because everything seems to

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Speaker 2: be a sixty second any thing we're looking for these days,

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Speaker 2: isn't it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think the world has got better choices now, right,

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Speaker 4: you can, I can choose. I like long format because

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Speaker 4: I learned so much more. But I think the interesting

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Speaker 4: thing from a mental health point of view, they say

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Speaker 4: now that if you want to keep someone's attention, you

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Speaker 4: only have six seconds.

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Speaker 1: Six seconds now Yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Don't know whether I believe that shit, but anyway.

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Speaker 2: So I was supposed to quick far questions, but I

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Speaker 2: thought and steered that you could tell us about your wine.

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Speaker 4: Well, I've just got back from Italy doing some more

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Speaker 4: research and development as I do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I've been lucky enough to drink it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and even take some home with me, so you know,

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Speaker 2: like I yes, So, which.

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Speaker 1: What's your favorite?

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Speaker 2: Tell us a bit about the varietals and what's your

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Speaker 2: favorab Well, I'll tell you a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit about the story because it's more about people.

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Speaker 4: So I came back to live in New Zealand probably

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Speaker 4: eleven years ago now, and my daughter, who was a

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Speaker 4: semi professional volleyballer, decided not to come back to New Zealand.

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Speaker 4: She wanted to stay up there anyway. After a couple

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Speaker 4: of years she decided she was going to come down

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Speaker 4: and live and got old end z but wanted to

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Speaker 4: carry on being a professional sportswoman. And as you know

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Speaker 4: in sport and New Zealand, especially in volleyball in New Zealand,

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Speaker 4: there's no money. So I said, well, you know, I've

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Speaker 4: got this incredible passion for wine and food. Why don't

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Speaker 4: we start a company. You've just studied business and marketing

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Speaker 4: and you know pastory exams. Why don't we just put

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Speaker 4: it straight into practice? But the idea other things?

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Speaker 1: So how long has it been going?

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Speaker 3: Probably ten years now. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And the interesting thing for me when I came back

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Speaker 4: to New Zealand and I walked into a supermarket. A

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Speaker 4: when I left, you didn't sell wine at supermarket. You

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Speaker 4: went to your local wine shop, and there's just this

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Speaker 4: massive array of wines and it was sort of confusing

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Speaker 4: and frustrating.

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Speaker 3: So, you know, if you don't know a lot about wine.

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Speaker 4: What do you do you know if I go to

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Speaker 4: your place that I want to spend fourteen bucks because

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Speaker 4: you think I'm a cheap ass, you know, so sort

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Speaker 4: of going on price and didn't really know. So one

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Speaker 4: of our ideas was to totally connect to the vineyards.

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Speaker 4: So it was about the people that make the wine.

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Speaker 4: So a lot of my friends were you know, wine

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Speaker 4: growers and makers in Italy and then adding stories to it.

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Speaker 4: But really our other thing is that we want to

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Speaker 4: have value for money in that category, because you just

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Speaker 4: want that's all I want. You know, if I buy

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Speaker 4: a New Zealand pinonois, try that there's like three million

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Speaker 4: of them, how do I know that that's good quality?

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Speaker 4: So the idea is I go and personally try the wines,

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Speaker 4: which obviously pulled you and I'd be very very good

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Speaker 4: at and I'm becoming an expert at trying wines. And

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Speaker 4: then I picked the wines that we like, and then

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Speaker 4: we associate them either with the vineyard or with the

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Speaker 4: you know, with a personality. So I've named wines after

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Speaker 4: you know, my mother and father in law and my wife,

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Speaker 4: all sorts of different stuff. So there's an emotional connection

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Speaker 4: to me.

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Speaker 1: Where do you predominantly sell We sell.

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Speaker 4: A lot online, We've sell into a lot of restaurants, Yes,

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Speaker 4: in New Zealand and New Zealand, Yes, New Zealand based.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: So talking about your kids, I mean they're all so

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Speaker 2: successful in it. So as you say, you've got your

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Speaker 2: daughter and the company with you doing the wine, and

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Speaker 2: then we were just talking about Nico, he was an

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Speaker 2: all white and playing football in Italy.

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Speaker 1: And then we've got Luca who's.

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Speaker 2: Part of the Luna Rosa America's Cup team, which is

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Speaker 2: just kind of outstanding. So do you think they just

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Speaker 2: like least whose success are they following or they just

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Speaker 2: always had a good drive and determination.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think sport has always been an important part of

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Speaker 4: education in our house. My wife was a semi professional

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Speaker 4: volleyballer obviously, you know, I was in the amateur area,

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Speaker 4: but probably was professional rugby player most of my life.

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Speaker 4: So they grew up with sport. But we also wanted

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Speaker 4: them to choose their own sort of field. And it's hard,

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Speaker 4: it's hard on our youngsters now in sport, it's pretty

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Speaker 4: dynamic life to have. So I just wanted them to

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Speaker 4: be the best that they can be and follow their

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Speaker 4: sort of dreams, and you know they've had you know,

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Speaker 4: my son Niko has had so much adversity, you know,

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Speaker 4: in his football career, you know, and he's always just

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Speaker 4: getting up and trying to be the best that he

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Speaker 4: can be.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: And I think one of the biggest questions that they

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Speaker 4: asked me, Dad, you know what if I'm not good enough?

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Speaker 4: And I think every young person would ask themselves that,

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Speaker 4: and I probably asked myself that when I was young.

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Speaker 4: But that question often can make you not try.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, because you're a failure.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and just not being good enough up to your

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Speaker 4: own expectations or someone's else. So often, you know, I

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Speaker 4: always said to them that if you give it your

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Speaker 4: everything and you only play third division, or if you

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Speaker 4: only make club rugby or whatever, but that's your limit,

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Speaker 4: then when you get to my age, you'll be okay

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Speaker 4: with it. It's when you get to my age and

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Speaker 4: you look back on life and you think, I wish

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Speaker 4: I could have or should have done a bit more. So,

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Speaker 4: understanding your level is where you need to get to,

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Speaker 4: and then there's a process about accepting that.

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Speaker 3: But I think that's.

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Speaker 2: All walks of life, right, But for me that was

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Speaker 2: in politics. Yeah, so everyone was sort of well not everyone.

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Speaker 2: There was the odd person that said, why aren't you

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Speaker 2: going for the top job? And it was like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: this is my wheelhouse, this is where I'm good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, I'm sixty soon,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I've learned to talk to my ego,

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Speaker 4: right instead of just ignoring it and let.

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Speaker 3: It drive you.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean?

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Speaker 4: So often your ego will be making decisions for you

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Speaker 4: and with you in a subconscious way. So how do

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Speaker 4: I say to my ego when I'm making decisions? And

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Speaker 4: as you get a bit older, you start contemplating this

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Speaker 4: stuff a whole lot more.

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Speaker 3: What part of this decision is actually my ego? Right?

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Speaker 4: And I'm pretty sure in politics you know sometimes the

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Speaker 4: top job you would think about doing the top job, right,

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Speaker 4: but you but.

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Speaker 3: It might be your ego.

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Speaker 4: But if you have, if you have the ability to

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Speaker 4: say this is my warehouse, this is where I'm really happy,

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Speaker 4: then you know that that is a blessing in disguise.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm just one hundred percent agree.

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Speaker 2: The only times I would have an inkling of it would.

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Speaker 1: Be and I would have called it my vanity.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean. But as you say, it

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Speaker 2: was ego, you know, like it was just like someone

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Speaker 2: thinks they can maybe that's gone to go, but I

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Speaker 2: don't want it. Yeah, and then going back to that

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Speaker 2: place really quickly. But you're rider and you do get better.

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Speaker 2: So grandchild, You got your first grandchild.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a little CJ. Arrived four and a half months ago,

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Speaker 4: and that's really cool. We're obviously in an Italian household,

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Speaker 4: so I was.

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Speaker 2: Gonna say, because the boys are in Italy, aren't they?

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Speaker 4: But my daughter's here, yeah, and her husband's here and

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Speaker 4: they live with us. So I'm very feel, very fortunate

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Speaker 4: that I spend a lot of my days with my grandchild.

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Speaker 1: The time suckers, aren't they.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's great.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I think you're talking about six seconds,

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Speaker 4: and you know you have more inputs in your brain

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Speaker 4: today than your grandparents had in a lifetime.

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Speaker 3: Right, So.

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Speaker 4: We don't have any downtime because it's invaded with technology.

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Speaker 4: So you know, we're even taking our phones to the toilet.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 4: I think the beauty of a grandchild is they take

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Speaker 4: your whole attention. You can't look at your phone, you

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Speaker 4: can't do anything else, So it's actually been a really

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Speaker 4: nice process, reflective process on slowing down like that.

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Speaker 1: I like that. All right, we'll better talk rugby, but

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Speaker 1: really someone will be interested.

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Speaker 3: Nice.

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Speaker 4: I do love the game, you know, of course I do.

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Speaker 4: Like I'm a butcher from Mangady. Yeah, you know this

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Speaker 4: game has given me everything in life, you know, I remember.

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Speaker 4: I'll tell you a funny story. This friend of mine

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Speaker 4: in Italy came to me and said, JK, would you

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Speaker 4: run the Venice Marathon? And I just laughed. I said, shit,

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Speaker 4: I can't even run to the letterbox anymore, mate like.

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Speaker 4: And he said, would you do the last two K?

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Speaker 4: And I said, And they build bridges through Venice. It's

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Speaker 4: actually spectacular. And I said, yeah, I could probably run

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Speaker 4: the last two K. And he said, we want to

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Speaker 4: raise some money for people tired. Yeah exactly, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I just dropped me off the last two K and

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Speaker 4: I'll pretend that I've cruised done. We're raising money for

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Speaker 4: rugby guy who's a tetraplegic. And I said, oh, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 4: tell me the story. And he said, well, you know

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Speaker 4: this guy broke his neck after the fifth th ree set,

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Speaker 4: So anyway, I do this thing. Yeah, sure, no problem,

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Speaker 4: run Venus. I mean it was more. It was so

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Speaker 4: beautiful for me to run through Venus. Blah blah blah.

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Speaker 4: And I go around to his house and I'm taking

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Speaker 4: two thousand dollars. I walk in and here he is,

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Speaker 4: like and he couldn't stop thanking me. His mum and

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Speaker 4: dad were there.

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Speaker 3: His mom, his dad's a baker, gets up at five.

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Speaker 4: O'clock in the morning, goes to where it comes home,

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Speaker 4: lifts him out of bed, bathes his mum's twenty four

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Speaker 4: to seven nurse, and he's thinking me, and I'm going

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Speaker 4: I would hate me. Yeah, you know, how do you

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Speaker 4: how do you love the game? And John Color was

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Speaker 4: the name Junker, And I just thought the rugby has

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Speaker 4: taken everything away from you, and it's given me everything. Anyway,

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Speaker 4: I said, I don't know why I said it. I said,

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Speaker 4: I made I'm going to swim for you, and I'm

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Speaker 4: going to swim the straight of Messina. I don't know

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Speaker 4: where that came from, but anyway, we ended up swimming

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Speaker 4: for him and raising money over the next sort of

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Speaker 4: ten years, which was really cool. But you know, I

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Speaker 4: do love the game. It's given me so much. I

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Speaker 4: think it's got its challenges at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does have a lot of challenges at the moment,

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Speaker 2: and so you can be quite harsh in your commentary

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Speaker 2: and you've been on the other end of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I don't don't.

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Speaker 4: I try not to be personal.

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Speaker 3: I just try and tell my truth.

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Speaker 4: And I think there's been a since I grew up,

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Speaker 4: there's been a tendency for New Zealanders not to have

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Speaker 4: confrontation based on respect. You know, people, I have an opinion,

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Speaker 4: and I have a strong opinion, and I expect you

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Speaker 4: to push back because that will help me form my opinion. Right,

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Speaker 4: it's opinion, But often people perceive it as single minded,

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Speaker 4: you know, like, but really for me, it's if you

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Speaker 4: can't push back with a decent argument, then you don't

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Speaker 4: have one.

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Speaker 3: So I was brought up like that. You know.

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Speaker 4: One of my best mates, Ricardo and Salizo, we you know,

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Speaker 4: we argue about lots of stuff, but it's always based

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Speaker 4: on respect, and it's always based on the greater good,

259
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Speaker 4: you know. Like for me, Rugby at the moment is

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Speaker 4: an anaerobic game. I want to see it go back

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Speaker 4: to an aerobic game. I want to see more speed

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Speaker 4: in the game. I want to see the times of

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Speaker 4: game and play go up so that some of our

264
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Speaker 4: athletes start losing some size. I think that's going to

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Speaker 4: be better for everybody. I want the games to go

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Speaker 4: from you know, thirty four minutes real time to fifty

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Speaker 4: five minutes real time. I want our administration that's been

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Speaker 4: amateur since we've been professional to move faster.

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Speaker 3: They don't.

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Speaker 2: And is that just because and this is someone who

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Speaker 2: doesn't follow rugby me? And is that because you's just

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Speaker 2: been so many rule changes? Is it around some of

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Speaker 2: it around safety? Is it just or is it just

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Speaker 2: a whole bunch of administrators that keeps sort of changing

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Speaker 2: the game so much and that that's where it ends up? Oh?

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Speaker 4: I think well, like, I think the interesting thing about

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Speaker 4: a solution when you're talking about complex games like ours,

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Speaker 4: is not one. So the three things you mentioned I

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Speaker 4: think are really really important. You know, people are not

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Speaker 4: playing rugby like they used to. There's other options for

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Speaker 4: our youngsters. You know, we're talking about you know, online

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Speaker 4: online gaming now where they're getting millions of viewers and

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Speaker 4: stuff like that. You know, we're struggling to fill stadiums

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Speaker 4: at NPC. You know where if you don't change fast now,

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Speaker 4: then you you lose a little bit of that. It's

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Speaker 4: not a game for everybody anymore, you know, because it's

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Speaker 4: an anaerobic game. That's not the player's fault. It's just

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Speaker 4: that it stops start. So how do we speed the

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Speaker 4: game up?

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Speaker 3: You know? How do we make it faster? How do

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Speaker 3: we make it more enjoyable?

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Speaker 4: How do we make it so that you don't engage

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Speaker 4: with your phone while you're watching it on TV? You know,

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Speaker 4: for me, that's the greatest challenge you can have. If

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Speaker 4: you have if you're looking at your phone, then the games.

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Speaker 1: Not entertaining exactly.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about the surf park. I've been lucky enough

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Speaker 2: to hear you talk about it before. But quite visionary

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Speaker 2: and you know, like and quite exciting. So people won't know,

300
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Speaker 2: So tell them a bit about what's coming and what

301
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Speaker 2: what you're what you're thinking is around it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Probably for the last ten years in the surfing industry,

304
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Speaker 4: there's been a bit of an arms race around technology

305
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Speaker 4: for an artificial wave. I think the most famous one

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Speaker 4: is you know, Kelly Slater. Kelly Slater's wave is amazing,

307
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Speaker 4: but it's probably not that commercially viable. Because it only

308
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Speaker 4: has a wave every four minutes. So there's a technology

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Speaker 4: called wave Garden which produces you know, a thousand waves

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Speaker 4: an hour. So basically what you can do is have

311
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Speaker 4: fifteen surfers on the left hand side and fifteen surfers

312
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Speaker 4: on the right hand side and you get you know,

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Speaker 4: fifteen waves each per hour.

314
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Speaker 1: How big is the poll?

315
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Speaker 3: About six acres?

316
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Speaker 1: Okay?

317
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Speaker 3: Yeah?

318
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Speaker 1: Huge?

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Speaker 4: Huge, Yeah, it's huge, And so I'll translate it for

320
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Speaker 4: the nonsurfers, so you'll learn to surf a lot quicker

321
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Speaker 4: because it's a controlled environment. It's way more female friendly

322
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Speaker 4: because you actually don't have to hassle for any waves.

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Speaker 4: The third thing is, you know, I went out. We

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Speaker 4: call ourselves the gray headed Grommets. I'm why he beached

325
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Speaker 4: local and so I went out before I went to

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Speaker 4: the wave pool in Melbourne for the first time, and

327
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,960
Speaker 4: the surf was pretty good and in an hour and

328
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Speaker 4: fifty I got four waves.

329
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Speaker 3: Right.

330
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Speaker 4: I went to the Melbourne wave pool and in three

331
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Speaker 4: days and three sessions I got sixty six waves.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

333
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Speaker 4: Right, And when you're getting to my age, that is

334
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Speaker 4: just it won't replace the sea, and we don't want

335
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Speaker 4: it to replace the sea, but it is better than

336
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Speaker 4: going to the gym.

337
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Speaker 3: You know.

338
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Speaker 4: I will be there three or four times a week.

339
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,200
Speaker 4: So I've had a few people sort of talking to

340
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Speaker 4: me about it. I love this beautiful city we live in,

341
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Speaker 4: you know, and I'm very very proud to be an

342
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Speaker 4: Aucklander and we need to start acting like a major

343
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Speaker 4: city around the world. So when they first approached me

344
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Speaker 4: about possibly putting one in Auckland, I just jumped at it.

345
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Speaker 4: I was very very hard on the people initially because

346
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Speaker 4: I've been approached by a whole lot of tie kickers,

347
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,480
Speaker 4: but these guys have been incredible. We've got the land,

348
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:13,960
Speaker 4: we've got the permission, and.

349
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Speaker 1: Now where is it going to be?

350
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Speaker 3: Very flat?

351
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Speaker 1: Yeah?

352
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know where the petrol station is on

353
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 4: the left and the ski places on the right, it's

354
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,320
Speaker 4: on the other side of the road. Yeah, And so

355
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,000
Speaker 4: for me, it's about creating a community center where you

356
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:30,240
Speaker 4: can go as a family, you know.

357
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was going to talk to you about,

358
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,479
Speaker 2: because you've got it's more than just surfing, right, It's

359
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 2: and you know, you were sort of saying, you know,

360
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,480
Speaker 2: potentially you could go and spend the day and you

361
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,720
Speaker 2: can never surf in the morning and then be able

362
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,760
Speaker 2: to plug in and do a few hours work and

363
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,440
Speaker 2: then have a surf in the afternoon and get home.

364
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 1: And is that still the vision.

365
00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,800
Speaker 4: To totally Like, we obviously want to have food and beverage,

366
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,960
Speaker 4: but we want it to be somewhere where New Zealand

367
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,199
Speaker 4: families can go and spend the day. You know, you

368
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,760
Speaker 4: can if you're a keen surfer, you can be surfing

369
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,440
Speaker 4: out the back while your kids are in the front

370
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,119
Speaker 4: of the pool, you know, playing and learning how to surf.

371
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 4: We want to have, you know, things that the families

372
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,480
Speaker 4: can do. We want to make sure that if you

373
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,360
Speaker 4: want to go and meet someone for a coffee, it's

374
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,359
Speaker 4: a really cool place to meet without going for a surf. So,

375
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,280
Speaker 4: you know, I think that the future is about creating

376
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 4: community hubs and up there and very flat. You know,

377
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,919
Speaker 4: there's just an incredible amount of housing going in. You know,

378
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,600
Speaker 4: I used to I used to go up that way surfing.

379
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,880
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, right through that area now is incredible.

380
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,600
Speaker 4: So it's a really really exciting project. It's been it's

381
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,119
Speaker 4: been really interesting for me to be involved. You know,

382
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,360
Speaker 4: I'm just really excited about actually getting into it. We're

383
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,880
Speaker 4: starting to do the earthworks this earthwork season. So yeah,

384
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:49,800
Speaker 4: it's been really cool.

385
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 2: And we're going to talk about mental health a bit

386
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,280
Speaker 2: more in the second segment. But you know you've said

387
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 2: before that that surfing and I actually dated a surfer

388
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 2: for quite some time and he would say that was

389
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 2: the best thing for his mental health was getting out

390
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 2: on the board and just their time out and clearing

391
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 2: the brain.

392
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 1: And would you still say.

393
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 3: That, Yes, I would.

394
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,760
Speaker 4: So for me, I knew I was very very unwell

395
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,399
Speaker 4: when I actually went surfing to get that relief and

396
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 4: I never got it. And that was really really scary

397
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,600
Speaker 4: when I was full on into my depression and I

398
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:26,919
Speaker 4: still didn't know what it was.

399
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 2: Normally that would normally it would be enough, it would

400
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:33,679
Speaker 2: be like, okay, pull on.

401
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 3: Like I'm in the preventative space now.

402
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 4: So the things that I've learned over the last sort

403
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 4: of thirty years about my mental health and how I

404
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,040
Speaker 4: can look after myself, it's all preventative. You know, I

405
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 4: said to someone the other day and you might understand this,

406
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,920
Speaker 4: How good were the eighties? Like we used to smoke cigarettes,

407
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 4: drink piss, eat pies and no one gave a shiteah

408
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 4: because no one knew, right.

409
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

410
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 4: Then by the end of the eighties, people saying maybe

411
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,959
Speaker 4: you shouldn't spoke, you know, like we used to hear

412
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,480
Speaker 4: round cigarettes and the all back Changer room and we

413
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 4: had five Steinlaggers before we left.

414
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 3: You know. By the end of the eighties, everybody's sort

415
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 3: of saying.

416
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 4: Well, you know, we know about heart disease now, and

417
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 4: we know that smoking cause so you know, diet and

418
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 4: all these things came in, and I think it's not

419
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,680
Speaker 4: dissimilar to mental health. So we've got this awareness now,

420
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,679
Speaker 4: but people do not know how to do the preventative stuff,

421
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 4: you know. So I was talking to a made of

422
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 4: mine the other day, you know, and he wasn't too well,

423
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:28,719
Speaker 4: and I said, well, what are you doing for your

424
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 4: mental health? You know what really chills you out? He said,

425
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 4: I love golf and I said, shuit up. When did

426
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,960
Speaker 4: your last play golf? He said a month ago, you know.

427
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 4: And this is part of the problem with surfing. I

428
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 4: know it's a great preventative thing and I need it,

429
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,239
Speaker 4: but how often do I get to do it. That's

430
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 4: why I'm so excited about the wave pool, because I

431
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,360
Speaker 4: can actually go easy and get that you know, get

432
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 4: that preventive stuff. So you know, I think that one

433
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 4: of the scariest things when you're in the hell, which

434
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 4: is depression and mental health, is you don't get enjoyment

435
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 4: out of anything.

436
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, He's talk about more about that when

437
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 2: we come back. And I also want to talk about

438
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 2: you being a visionary, right, welcome back, OKAJK. You came

439
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,959
Speaker 2: up in conversation and my very first podcast of this season,

440
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,119
Speaker 2: and I had Rick Salizo Witten.

441
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: He's a good friend of yours.

442
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 3: He's my best mate.

443
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 2: Yeah.

444
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've been friends since school. He was a scary

445
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 4: individual at school. He imagine this is a movie from

446
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 4: a long way ago. But Quadrophenia, Yeah, Loped's Northern England overcoach.

447
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,679
Speaker 4: That was Ricardo and then I had to look at

448
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 4: his fat ass because he was my number eight and

449
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 4: I was a halfback for the De la cell Onirse fifteen.

450
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 2: So yeah, but he said you're a visionary.

451
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 1: That he described you as a visionary very much.

452
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 2: And he would say all of my ideas generally he

453
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 2: came from Jka and then and then it's me that

454
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 2: ham that then sort of packs them up and runs

455
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 2: with it.

456
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know.

457
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 4: Well, Ricardo's a genius in his own right, you know anyone.

458
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 4: I remember meeting Lucano Benetton once, right, and I said

459
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 4: to Lucano Benetton, you know we're flying around on his

460
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,239
Speaker 4: private jet. Believe it or not, he's a butcher boy

461
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 4: friend already with a roof of from Christ Chre. It's

462
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 4: flying in a private jet. So we took the opportunity

463
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 4: to ask the guy who owned it, you know, how

464
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 4: did you make so much money? And he said, I

465
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 4: invented color. He said, before me, there was black, white,

466
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 4: and gray. And I got up one morning and my

467
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 4: sister cleaned my white jumper and it came out red,

468
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 4: and so I was pinkish red, and he said.

469
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 3: I was so embarrassed.

470
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 4: But I walked to work that morning and forty people

471
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 4: asked to buy my jumper. So I went home and

472
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 4: I created United Colors of Benetton. Tell you that story,

473
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 4: because the interesting thing about Ricardo He's always had the

474
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 4: ability to be ahead of what is coming next.

475
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: I talked to him.

476
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 4: About it, and I think that's an incredible I think

477
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,959
Speaker 4: that's an incredible ability. He also has the ability to

478
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 4: connect with an audience and you know, for me, I

479
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 4: think that in this industry that is that is really

480
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 4: unique now, you know, media and television and is just

481
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,959
Speaker 4: a really intriguing industry at the moment. You know, he's

482
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 4: he's got this incredible ability I think visionary. I think

483
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 4: he's the only one who listens to me really sit down,

484
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 4: and I also see things.

485
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 3: That I think can can make change.

486
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 4: You know, in the early days, I felt that athletes

487
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 4: didn't have a voice and that and I and I'm

488
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 4: critical now as well because back then we didn't have

489
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 4: a voice. And then I think there was this period

490
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 4: through you know, sports cafe and stuff where you could

491
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 4: meet and understand the person and they would have a voice,

492
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 4: you know, and then we had superstars like Mark Alice

493
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 4: that you know, not only was he a great rugby

494
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 4: and rugby league player, he was this incredible talent. And

495
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 4: so you know, for me, it was about expressing that

496
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 4: and I talked to him about it and go, yeah,

497
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 4: that's a good idea, and then he'd put all the greatness.

498
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: Around m Because there is a difference between having ideas

499
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 2: and then actually following through and launching them and doing

500
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: things right.

501
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And I'm not a detailed person.

502
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 4: So I think with Ricardo and I, he's always had

503
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 4: the ability to capture the you know, the idea, but

504
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 4: then go, okay, I see it going here and then

505
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 4: doing it and creating and growing it and then turning

506
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 4: it into something.

507
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: Being an ideas person or a visionary. Is that innate

508
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 2: in you or is it something that can be learned.

509
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 4: I've battled with self esteem for a long long time,

510
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 4: so you know, one of the one of the problems

511
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 4: I had that infected my mental health is I have

512
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 4: a what I call a dumb shark. You know, I

513
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 4: think I'm dumb. I got told I was dumb at school.

514
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 4: I've never passed an examine my life. So it's taken

515
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 4: me many, many years to accept that. Possibly, like I'd

516
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 4: think of millions of things and they just be don't

517
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 4: be stupid, JK.

518
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:36,959
Speaker 3: You know.

519
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 4: So part of my mental journey has been making peace

520
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 4: with my sharks.

521
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 3: You know.

522
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 4: I had an impost shark, I had a dumb shark,

523
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 4: I had a guilt shark. I had I want to

524
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 4: be like shark, you know, and they were all influencing

525
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 4: me and my ability to be the best I could be.

526
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 4: And so I still have a whole lot of different

527
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 4: ideas and now I will share them with people and

528
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 4: I take it or leave it.

529
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 3: I don't worry too much about it.

530
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: Are we ambitious enough in New Zealand? Do you think?

531
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think that New Zealanders.

532
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 4: You know, it was really interesting, you know, Christopher Luxen

533
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 4: being taken through the media for making profit out of

534
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 4: a house.

535
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 3: I just wonder whether that's been a big part of

536
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 3: our culture that we need to address.

537
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 4: Like, you know, I love successful people. And when I

538
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 4: say success, if you're successful financially, I think good on you.

539
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 4: If you're successful politically, I think good on you. If

540
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 4: you're a successful mum or a successful dad and your

541
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 4: kids are good kids, that is success. But I just

542
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 4: think New Zealand, New Zealand, we need to be very

543
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 4: careful that we don't take this humility that is very

544
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 4: positive in our culture a little bit too far and

545
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 4: start beating people up.

546
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 3: For being successful.

547
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 4: And I'm using the Prime Minister because I think it's

548
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 4: a very interesting it's a very interesting personality to pick on.

549
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 4: But I don't like it when we start attacking success

550
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 4: in any field. Right If that's financially, good on you. Yeah,

551
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 4: as long as you haven't done a duval.

552
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 3: You know.

553
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 2: But it's kind of almost like, you know, I get

554
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: into the gender politics quite a bit, and I always

555
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 2: say that, you know, I'm a feminist and I encourage

556
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: woman and I did a lot of work in that area.

557
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean we have to beat others down,

558
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like I want to see

559
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:49,959
Speaker 2: men succeed.

560
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: I want to see women succeed.

561
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: You know. For me, that's what it's about. And it's

562
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: a bit the same, whether it's financial or whatever it is.

563
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: It's just like, you know, it's sort of sitting there

564
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 2: and pointing and blaming, whereas ex we could be encouraging

565
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: and I'd love to give you the hand to get

566
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 2: yourself and it's just but instead it's knocked them down,

567
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: knock them down.

568
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I agree with you. I think that, you know,

569
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 4: I think there takes a certain percentage of extremism might

570
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 4: be the wrong word, exaggeration in feminism, in gay rights,

571
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 4: and a whole lot of different stuff for us to

572
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 4: then come back to a sensible middle, right, because if

573
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 4: we didn't have some of the amazing women and you know,

574
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 4: I was brought up by three women, so For me,

575
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 4: I don't see feminism. I see women as the greatest

576
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 4: asset in my life that I could not live without.

577
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 4: So for me, I don't see it. You know, people

578
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 4: I don't see race either, like I just see New Zealand.

579
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 4: So but for me, it's sometimes you need a little

580
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 4: bit of going too far for us to come back

581
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 4: to the middle. And when you get back to the middle,

582
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 4: some of those people are then isolated because they haven't

583
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 4: had the ability to go okay, right.

584
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 3: You know.

585
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 4: The gay parade, right totally agreed with it for a

586
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 4: long time, but when it steps over the line into vulcarity,

587
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 4: I go, well, what's the purpose because that's just now

588
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 4: a show? Because I think gay rights are fundamental, I

589
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 4: need we need to do this, feminine rights, all that

590
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 4: sort of stuff. But then we need to come back to,

591
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 4: you know, the happy medium.

592
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: So that yeah of society.

593
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 3: That's where I sort of sit on it.

594
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: So what do you mean by vulgarity? Then you just perhaps,

595
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not quite the middle of the day,

596
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: is it. But it's a street, a.

597
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,719
Speaker 4: Bunch of nuns, a bunch of people dressed up as

598
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 4: nuns with the ass cut out of the the.

599
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: Habit, so the general public don't need to see that

600
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: sort of thing, and it's too fat.

601
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 4: I just think it's a step too far. Is that

602
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 4: really promoting.

603
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: Gay rights?

604
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 4: You know, look, that's that's just that's just my opinion.

605
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 4: I think that, you know, when you talked about feminism before,

606
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 4: you need to push the boundaries to get get a

607
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 4: wrong a wrong situation right right, So you need to

608
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 4: make sure that you're pushing the boundaries. But then once

609
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 4: we think it's at a at a place where it's accepted,

610
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 4: we need to come back to it.

611
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: And I mean, you talked about the eighties and it's

612
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 2: quite interesting when you think about that with gay rights.

613
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: It's like by Craky, they're pretty much wounded it then

614
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: and it was you know, you people were hiding their sexuality.

615
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 2: It was this, you know, and now when you look

616
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 2: at how far we've come and still got a way

617
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: to go at some level. But as you say, it's

618
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: I want to same mainstream because it's not the right

619
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: words either, is it. But it's just such a different world,

620
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: you know how good.

621
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I'm an eighties child. We used to.

622
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 4: Use, you know, words that that are just totally inappropriate

623
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 4: now and rightly so, but a lot of it was

624
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: around our own ignorance. And so the the the you know,

625
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 4: the the the people who pushed the boundaries back then

626
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 4: also educated us. So you know, we're in a way,

627
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 4: we're in a way better space now for it, you

628
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 4: know what I mean.

629
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 3: I don't know how we got on that subch.

630
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: I don't know what we got down there, but there

631
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: we go. We did.

632
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: So let's talk a bit about mental health, because look,

633
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: for everything that you've done, you know, in my personal

634
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: opinion is that that will be you'll give back to

635
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: New Zealand. Is that you know, you were one of

636
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: the first that stood out and put your face in

637
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 2: front of it. You were you know, for particularly for

638
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: those blokes out there, you know.

639
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: But man, it was a ride for you to get

640
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: to that place. And I mean, I remember you. I've

641
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: been lucky.

642
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: Enough to hear before, and you know your discussion of

643
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: being in a hotel room has stuck with me, and

644
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: so it must be it must be pretty powerful if

645
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 2: it's still in the back of my mind.

646
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: Do you mind telling people there?

647
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 3: Yeah?

648
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:11,719
Speaker 4: So I mean we're talking. Yeah, Like for me, I

649
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 4: didn't know this at the time. My reference to mental

650
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 4: health was one flow of the Crooko's nest. So I

651
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 4: thought that if I spoke to my doctor, I'm going

652
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 4: to get locked up with Jack Nicholson and chief of

653
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 4: the Big American Indian gay And so I was hiding

654
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 4: my mental health. I wasn't talking to anyone about it.

655
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 4: I was an anxiety based depressant found that post So

656
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 4: I was having anxiety attacks and ignoring them. So I

657
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 4: was going back to relative normal.

658
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: And you were all black then yet Yeah.

659
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 4: I remember going one morning to radio holder Key to

660
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 4: Kevin Black's studio, and it was seven o'clock in the morning.

661
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 4: You know, I was going in to talk rugby. There

662
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 4: was a test match that week. We're talking shit. He

663
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 4: you know, I don't know what Black he was on, man,

664
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 4: but he was bouncing off the walls, opened a bottle

665
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 4: of champagne, had a glass of champagne.

666
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: You know, this is from seven to seven twenty in

667
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: the morning.

668
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 4: You know, right, there's like bomb You're in the bomb

669
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 4: toy with all this energy boom. I drive, I go

670
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 4: down and I sit in my car and I'm paralyzed.

671
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 4: I can't move because the first time that I had

672
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 4: a suicidal rumination. So I felt that if I drove

673
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 4: my car, I was going to drive off the Harbor Bridge,

674
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 4: and I didn't know if I could control myself not

675
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 4: doing that or driving into a lamppost at one hundred

676
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 4: and fifty k. So I sat there for an hour,

677
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 4: sweating and you know, frozen. And then I drove home

678
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 4: very slowly, and I went to bed and fell asleep,

679
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 4: which was which was not something that was that common

680
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 4: back then when I was unwell, and I woke up

681
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 4: and felt okay, I thought, shit, I'm not having champagne

682
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 4: in the morning anymore.

683
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 3: That good for you.

684
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 4: So once again ignored it, and so I didn't know

685
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 4: what was happening. And then one day the anxiety attack

686
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 4: just didn't go away. So it was a constant. So

687
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 4: I say this, you know, a minute feels like an hour,

688
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 4: an hour feels like a day, and a day feels

689
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 4: like a week. And at the end of every day

690
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 4: I was also struggling with suicide I ruminations. I never

691
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 4: planned mown suicide, so for that I feel internally grateful,

692
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 4: but I was thinking about suicide, and at the end

693
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 4: of every day I was just exhausted. And then I

694
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 4: went away on an all black tour, and I was

695
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 4: away from my comfort. Although I hadn't spoken to anyone,

696
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 4: I felt comfortable, you know, around family and around home,

697
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 4: and I had some escape routes. And I just had

698
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 4: the worst tour ever, just struggling to survive, mentally, hiding

699
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 4: it from everybody, living a lie, suicidal ruminations.

700
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 3: But I was lying in bed on the.

701
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 4: Tenth floor of the Hilton and Buenos Aidas and.

702
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 3: Window was open.

703
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 4: I just finished an anxiety attack, and by the end

704
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 4: of the day, my anxiety attacks were then mental attached

705
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 4: to suicidal rumination. And then I'd start shaking physically and

706
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 4: I'd shake, and I just finished that. I was just

707
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 4: sick of fighting, you know, I was sick of fighting it.

708
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 4: So I decided that I was going to run and

709
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 4: jump out the window. And courage is a funny word

710
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 4: when you're talking about this. I don't know if it's

711
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 4: the right word, but it's the only word I can

712
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 4: come up with. And so I was building up the

713
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 4: courage to run and jump ou out of the window

714
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 4: and going through the process of what.

715
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 3: And why and what would happen and that sort of stuff.

716
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 4: And I'm lying in bed, Yeah, yeah, know, I'm lying

717
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 4: in bed trying to get the courage. Yeah, trying to

718
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 4: go go now John, you know, run and jump. And

719
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 4: Michael Owns, who was my roommate, said to me, JK,

720
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 4: you've got a good heart, and he saved my life.

721
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 3: I never jumped out the window.

722
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 4: But the thing that I said to myself every second

723
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 4: for the next sort of forty eight fifty sixty hours

724
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 4: of what it was was JK, you've got a good heart.

725
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 4: I said that to myself every second because I was

726
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 4: too scared to think of what the other thought.

727
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I suppose that's good advice for people, right,

728
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: is that actually you don't have to solve every problem.

729
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 1: If you're worried about a friend, you know, you don't,

730
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: you know.

731
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: But actually sometimes it's the more simple things that we

732
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: do for others that can mean the most.

733
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 3: Is that, yeah, yeah, look, I think you know.

734
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 4: I often say, don't try and be the expert, just

735
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 4: be there. It's probably the best advice.

736
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 3: You know.

737
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 4: Often we want to help. Yeah, you know, it's but

738
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 4: like your kids, they come to you the problem and

739
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 4: you don't know the answer, but you make shit up

740
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 4: because that's what you you think.

741
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 3: You should do as a parent.

742
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 4: But often it's best just to listen and then ask

743
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 4: how what do you need from me? And often just

744
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 4: listening is enough sometimes, you know, I remember my brother

745
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 4: in law came to me, came with me to the psychiatrist.

746
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 4: That was the greatest thing he could have ever done

747
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 4: for me, because I was so embarrassed I didn't want

748
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 4: to go. You know, he didn't give a shit. He

749
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 4: walked in with me and and that was the greatest

750
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 4: help I could have had at the time. So, you know,

751
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 4: it's it's it was a turning point in my life.

752
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 2: Can we talk about the preventative because you touched on

753
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 2: it and that's certainly what Mighty is right?

754
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 1: What does preventive mean?

755
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 2: How do we look after ourselves and our children better?

756
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: Earlier?

757
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 4: So, about five or six years ago, I woke up

758
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 4: and felt that I'd failed. I've been the face of

759
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 4: mental health in our country for fifteen years and we

760
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 4: have the worst suicide rate in the OCD. Right, so

761
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 4: I'd failed and failure. Like you know, people get a

762
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 4: bit upset when I say that because they think I'm

763
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 4: worried about it. I'm not worried about it, because what

764
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 4: it did make me do is relook at it. So

765
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 4: I re looked at it and the problem that I

766
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 4: had as I went on this journey from being incredibly

767
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 4: clinically depressed and unwell so surviving to thriving.

768
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 3: And what I did.

769
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 4: Is I learned what I call the six pillars of

770
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 4: preventative mental health, right. And so what I decided to

771
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 4: do was most kids were still learning English, maths and science,

772
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 4: but they weren't learning anything that they needed that they

773
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 4: might be divorced, they might go broke, they might lose

774
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 4: a job, you know. So we created Mighty and with

775
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 4: help from a whole lot of people, we built a

776
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 4: curriculum for primary schools that teach our tamariki about you know,

777
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 4: about mental health and how they can implement that in

778
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 4: their days.

779
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: And so are the teachers teaching it just as part

780
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 2: of everything.

781
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 3: Right across the curriculum. Yeah.

782
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 4: And what we do is we supply the teachers that

783
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 4: go in and teach the teachers. We don't teach the kids,

784
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 4: We teach the teachers, and then they put this curriculum

785
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 4: based mental health program right across the school and it's

786
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:49,399
Speaker 4: having an incredible effect. We're in two hundred schools and

787
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 4: there's fourteen hundred primary schools in New Zealand and we

788
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 4: want to get to them all and we think that

789
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 4: within a generation we become one of the best mental

790
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 4: health countries the.

791
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 3: OCD and that is that.

792
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: So it's kind of teaching that adaptive resilience, right, because

793
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 2: we get it as we get older.

794
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love you too, Paula. You know I hate

795
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 4: that word resilience.

796
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

797
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 4: Well I went into a bunch of fifteen year olds

798
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 4: and I said, what's resilience? And they said, that's our

799
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 4: ship word our parents use, you know. So I'll say

800
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 4: this to you.

801
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 3: I'll say this to you.

802
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 4: Our children need a toolbox, a mental toolbox, right to

803
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 4: deal with whatever the world throws of them, because resilience

804
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 4: to you might not be resilience to make. So that's

805
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 4: the problem, right, So we're using these generalized words.

806
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 2: Well, what I was going to say to you was

807
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: as well, is that I would be considered one of

808
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 2: the most resilient people I know, and that a lot

809
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 2: of people know, and yet I'm as messed up and

810
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 2: screwed up as anyone.

811
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 1: So it's not the answer.

812
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 4: No, no, but that's beautiful. But can you articulate. So

813
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 4: this is what I say, love is a verb. Yeah, right,

814
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 4: And then everyone's dictionary the meaning of love underneath has

815
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 4: different meanings, right.

816
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 3: Got that?

817
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 4: So if I said in Paula Bennett's dictionary, I've just

818
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 4: opened a resilience, tell me underneath what that means?

819
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 3: Yeah?

820
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: Do you want me to answer there?

821
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 3: Oh?

822
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: So for me, it's the ability to bounce back when

823
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 2: life is treating you as it does, as it just

824
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 2: does because of circumstances and everything else. And yeah, it

825
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 2: is that in a strength that means that you can

826
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 2: keep on somewhat of an even keel.

827
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 4: Okay, So tell me one thing you would do when

828
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 4: you get up and you're having a bad day.

829
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: I would talk.

830
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 2: To best friend, to talk to someone, family, husband, sit down,

831
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 2: and I take time out by myself. So I got

832
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 2: when I was in politics, I suppose my bad mental

833
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 2: health would manifest itself, that I would get physically unwell

834
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 2: to the point where i'd be hospitalized. I remember once,

835
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 2: so doctor went and they said, and they wrung me

836
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: now late and they said, we're actually really concerned about you.

837
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: It's your choice. Do you want to go to hospital?

838
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 2: And I went, Yet, it's the only way I can

839
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: take time out, you know, it's the only way. So

840
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 2: then I learned to not get to that point and

841
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 2: mine was having time alone perfect.

842
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 4: So that is resilience for you, right, And all we

843
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 4: need to do is teach how Tamariki that when this

844
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 4: situation arises, here's the toolbox that I have, right, And

845
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 4: like I've got a lot of friends that go for

846
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 4: a run. Yeah, right, that might be part of your toolbox.

847
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 4: And I was talking to Jenny May the other day,

848
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 4: I'm going off the word well being because it's too broad,

849
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 4: do you know. And we've really got to personalize this

850
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 4: stuff as out. And I also created another company called

851
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 4: Groove where I want to use technology to deliver some

852
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 4: of these things in the workplace because I prefer to

853
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 4: talk about performance care. You know, you've got to perform

854
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 4: poorer at work. I've got to perform that. We love performance,

855
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 4: But how do I care for myself and how do

856
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 4: I care for you so that you get the best performance?

857
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 4: And then how digitally can we put that in our

858
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 4: day And so that's that part of my inspiration is

859
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 4: teach our kids to have the toolbox when they when

860
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 4: you know, and a nine year old it might be

861
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 4: losing a group of friends. You know, eleven year old's

862
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 4: going to high school, you know, and sometimes we go,

863
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 4: you know, get over it.

864
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 3: We've all been through it.

865
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 4: That's not the answer because that you know, the extroverted

866
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 4: kid's going to love it. The introverted kid's going to

867
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 4: be shitting themselves. So what toolboxes can we give them?

868
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 4: And then in the workplace, how can we you know,

869
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 4: there's no work life balance anymore. You know, you're on

870
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 4: your phone every second, everyone's on their computers. But there's

871
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 4: just so much more inputs into our brain. So there's

872
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 4: no natural switch off of the brain, right and unless

873
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 4: you take control now, the world has taken control of you.

874
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 4: And it's very hard to get that control back. You know,

875
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 4: our minds are speeding up. We're not resting them instead

876
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 4: of sitting there. And I say, I said to a

877
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 4: group of leaders the other day, when was the last

878
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 4: time you were bored?

879
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 3: And they all went, well, shit, right, because we picked

880
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 3: the phone up. And I'm as guilty as anyone, don't

881
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 3: get me wrong, right, But what what I try and

882
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 3: do is take control of my mental health on a

883
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 3: daily basis and make sure i'm implementing the things that

884
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 3: I know.

885
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: Look and it's all individual and it's all different totally.

886
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 4: So I tell you, I'll tell you an intersting story. Right,

887
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 4: I'm I'm sore. There's two things that have happened.

888
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 3: You know. I've gone to the doctor and he's told

889
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 3: me I've got depression and it's an illness, not a weakness.

890
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: And he tells me I should go on to antidepressants

891
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 3: and go and see a psychiatrist. And I tell him

892
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 3: to pass off and walk out.

893
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 4: Being an idiot. Anyway, I go back three weeks later.

894
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 4: I had a little bit of hope because I thought, shit,

895
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 4: it's an illness, not a weakness, because it takes away

896
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 4: your self esteem, takes away your self confidence, and takes

897
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 4: away your enjoyment in life. So you feel pretty shitty.

898
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 4: And so I went back. I went on the antidepressants,

899
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 4: and I went and saw someone. I went saw some

900
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 4: person first, which was not a nice experience, and I

901
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 4: can tell that story it another day. But the second

902
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 4: person I went to was amazing doctor Louis Armstrong, and

903
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 4: she took me on this journey of first thing she

904
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 4: said is have.

905
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 3: You accepted your illness? And I hadn't.

906
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 4: I was still fighting it, which takes up a lot

907
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 4: of energy. So I say to people, you know, never

908
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 4: give up, but stop fighting. And because I stopped fighting

909
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 4: it and accepted it, and then I started working on it.

910
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 4: But just one thing about the brain. She said to me, JK,

911
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,839
Speaker 4: how would you like to try meditation? I'm going, wow,

912
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 4: that's pretty freaky, Like, you know, if you did yoga

913
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 4: back then, you're a dope smoking, surfy freak.

914
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 3: You know, no one did bloody meditation. I didn't even

915
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 3: know what it was.

916
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 4: So I went and did it because I was prepared

917
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 4: to try anything. And it was terrible, like absolutely terrible.

918
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 4: Started getting anxious again, so I thought I'd failed, and

919
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 4: I thought I've done something wrong, you know. And I

920
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 4: went back to her and she said, no, JK, like

921
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 4: twenty two or twenty four percent of the world's population

922
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 4: have a ruminating mind. And I go, should I can't

923
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 4: even spell that as that Bob the Monkey, Bob the

924
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 4: Monkey in my head, right, and I'll explained Bob the

925
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 4: Monkey to you. So I Bob the Monkey and I

926
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 4: go to bed at night and I don't read Bob

927
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 4: the Monkey goes you JK. Shit, let's think about tomorrow.

928
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 4: Let's think about yesterday. Yes, think about shit that doesn't matter,

929
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 4: and him and I will be up TI two o'clock

930
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 4: in the morning.

931
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 3: Right, you've got Netflix.

932
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, If I watch Netflix, if it doesn't engage my

933
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 4: brain in forty five seconds, Bob the Monkey's gone.

934
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

935
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 4: Right, So that's a ruminating mind. So I'm an active relaxer. So,

936
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 4: for example, I do three things. I read, Bob the

937
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 4: monkey goes into his cage and has a banana. I cook,

938
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 4: Bob the monkey goes into his cache, heads banana. If

939
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 4: I play the guitar and I'm shit at it, Bob

940
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 4: the Monkey goes in his cage, has banana. So I

941
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 4: know that any one of those three things, on a

942
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 4: daily basis, I can disconnect my brain, right.

943
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: And you have to do that. I have to do

944
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: this just highly wired.

945
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 4: When on Well, sometimes I can go a few days

946
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 4: without it, but I generally don't. Right, So I know

947
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 4: that on a daily basis, I've got to do one

948
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 4: of those three things. Also, I talk about two birds

949
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 4: of one stone. I love cooking. My wife also loves

950
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 4: me cooking. Yeah right, yeah, So that's two birds with

951
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 4: one stone. And so the six pillars, So that's chill.

952
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 4: Do what are you doing for your mind that's outside

953
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 4: your work to you know? And I'm learning how to

954
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 4: read music. How do you connect?

955
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 3: Right?

956
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 4: And this is a really interesting one for you. So

957
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 4: I connect in three ways. I love the cell phone,

958
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 4: you know, talking to my son on the way here.

959
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 4: You know he's in Barcelona. How good is that? So

960
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 4: I enjoy technology, I love connecting with people. But I'm

961
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 4: also an introvert that enjoys being an extrovert. So I

962
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 4: read the book Quite by Suzanne Kane, which really changed

963
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 4: my life. So I know that when I'm an extrovert,

964
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 4: I need to get energy back. And I really enjoy

965
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 4: connecting with nature. So how do I put those in

966
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 4: my day?

967
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 3: Right?

968
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 4: Sometimes you can't do all three? But then move right?

969
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 4: What am I doing to move? How do I enjoy

970
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 4: something every single day? And what am I celebrating? And

971
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 4: if you put those six things is all built in

972
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 4: behavioral science in your day, then you are doing preventive

973
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 4: mental health. But my chill might be different to your chill.

974
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 3: You might do later. You might do knitting.

975
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know what you like your time out,

976
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 4: So but if you do those six things.

977
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,399
Speaker 3: Then you're doing preventative mental health.

978
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 2: And so you're teaching these kids via the mighty to

979
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 2: kind of think about how they're going to look after

980
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: themselves and their wellness if you're like, you know, totally

981
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 2: for their lives.

982
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 4: I mean, if you're in New Zealand mail and you're

983
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 4: getting close to sixty. We grew up with three emotions, happy,

984
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 4: sad and angry. You know, we didn't know too many

985
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 4: other expressive words. And so yeah, it's just about teaching

986
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 4: them the rule book. But this is also about groove.

987
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 4: You know, how how do we go into businesses and say,

988
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 4: you know, we want people to perform, but we need

989
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 4: to be able to use their data. We want to

990
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 4: be able to integrate into their workday, but then also

991
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,399
Speaker 4: give them the ability to take the time i'm out,

992
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 4: you know, like for me, it doesn't take me long

993
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:05,919
Speaker 4: per day to look after my mental health.

994
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 3: You know.

995
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 2: Okay, to in this segment, tell me what's what do

996
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 2: you think the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

997
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: Perhaps just being told that you've got a good heart.

998
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was pretty big. My dad once said to me,

999
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 4: if you died tomorrow, would you be happy? He was

1000
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 4: on his deathbed. He didn't die that time, which was great.

1001
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:28,399
Speaker 4: He died a year later.

1002
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 3: But I said, shit, what sort of question is that, dad?

1003
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 4: And he said, well, you go home and think about it, son,

1004
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 4: and if I'm still alive tomorrow, we can talk about it.

1005
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 3: So I went home and I came.

1006
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 4: Back and you know, I came back in and I

1007
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 4: had all the obvious answers. You know, I want to

1008
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 4: see the kids grow up and all, you know, all

1009
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 4: that sort of stuff, and he said, I know that, son,

1010
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 4: that's a given.

1011
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 3: That wasn't my question.

1012
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,919
Speaker 4: And I said, well, I can't really answer it, dad,

1013
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 4: And he said, well, don't learn how to live life

1014
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 4: by touching death like I did.

1015
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 3: He said.

1016
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,760
Speaker 4: I had a heart attack at fifty nine, and he said,

1017
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 4: I touched death and then I started living. He said,

1018
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 4: I didn't change much. I still went back to work

1019
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 4: and that sort of stuff. And it took me about

1020
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 4: six months to actually go, I'm going to put everything

1021
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 4: in my day today that's really really important to me.

1022
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 4: So if I die tomorrow, i'd be happy. And I

1023
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 4: can fairly say that if I died tomorrow, I don't

1024
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,959
Speaker 4: want to die obviously, then i'd be happy because today

1025
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 4: I'll tell everybody that I love them, I will.

1026
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 3: Do what I want to do.

1027
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 4: I'll be well mentally because I look after myself mentally.

1028
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 4: So that's probably the best bit of advice of it.

1029
00:51:46,040 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: Very powerful, very powerful Okay podcast called Ask Many Things.

1030
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 2: So this is an opportunity if you want to take it,

1031
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 2: but you don't have to because I always hope someone won't,

1032
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 2: but they always do.

1033
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:08,760
Speaker 1: Where you can ask me something.

1034
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 3: Why politics?

1035
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: Ah, It's interesting.

1036
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: Because when I got to university, I was marching in

1037
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 2: the streets and I found this voice. And then I

1038
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 2: and i'd been on welfare. I then was studying you know,

1039
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:33,919
Speaker 2: the system if you like, and all the rest of it,

1040
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 2: and I felt that I had a set of unique

1041
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 2: experiences and actually talent once I found that voice, that

1042
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 2: I could change it.

1043
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 3: What were you marching for?

1044
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: I was marching against in the national government. How ironic

1045
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: likeneteen ninety five.

1046
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 2: I've got this wonderful about I would have been university fees.

1047
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 2: And you noticed when the billion dollar debts were coming

1048
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 2: in and it was the first time and I would

1049
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: have marched about anything because I just had found this.

1050
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: I'd been this very poor you know, Solomma was told

1051
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 2: by her father constantly that you know, there's no room

1052
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 2: for a woman a girl's voice, and you know, and

1053
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 2: shut up. And so all of a sudden, I just

1054
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 2: found the strength and this voice, and it was you know, and.

1055
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 1: I just realized that actually, actually I could.

1056
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 2: Form an argument and I could have an opinion. And

1057
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 2: I wasn't as dumb as I'd been told I was

1058
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 2: for twenty five years, and you know, so that for me,

1059
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 2: and so then you start to think.

1060
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 1: I started thinking about how how could I use it?

1061
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 3: What was just single greatest achievement out as a politician.

1062
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 2: Well, other people have opinions, but for me, it was difficult.

1063
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 2: We don't care about that, Yeah, it was for me.

1064
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 2: It was definitely the work in welfare and particularly with

1065
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 2: teen mums.

1066
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 1: So that was my passion.

1067
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 2: I'd been one, and I knew that we could do

1068
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 2: it better and we could do it differently.

1069
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 1: So I felt that if we educated.

1070
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 2: And respected the mothers, then they would raise their children

1071
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 2: to be successful and have a better life. And so

1072
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 2: I put a lot into teen moms and dads, but

1073
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 2: it was.

1074
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: Predominantly mothers to be really blunt, beautiful. You go the

1075
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 1: guy Okay, it's so good to see John. Thank you

1076
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: so much for your time today.

1077
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 2: If anyone wants more information on the Sir John Cowan

1078
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 2: Foundation and Mighty go and have a lock on the website.

1079
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 2: It's easy to find. I had a Google yesterday. It's

1080
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 2: all there. Look out for the surf park park that's

1081
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 2: coming our way. Yeah, and get into lots of things.

1082
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 2: So all the best for you for the rest of

1083
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: your year. Go and see those kids and squeeze that grandchild.

1084
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: Again for me, exactly need a baby. You need a

1085
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: baby in the family.

1086
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 2: Just pulling it out there to the nieces and nephews.

1087
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 1: And that's it for.

1088
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 2: Another episode of Asking Me Anything. If you've enjoyed this episode,

1089
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 2: please follow Ask Me Anything on iHeartRadio, where if you

1090
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 2: get your podcasts you check out some of the past

1091
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 2: fabulous guests. Rhaps Alizo is one and I'll be back

1092
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:06,479
Speaker 2: next Sunday with another one.

1093
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 1: I'm Paula Bennett Ask Me Anything. Goodbye,