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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fine

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Speaker 1: from News talk EDB.

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Speaker 2: Last few weeks have seen a period of terrific success

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Speaker 2: for Kiwis on the international sporting states. The White Ferns

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Speaker 2: of course T twenty World champions, the Black Caps winning

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Speaker 2: a series in India for the first time, Team New

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Speaker 2: Zealand retaining the America's Cup, Liam Lawson getting his full

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Speaker 2: time Formula one drive, the Silver Ferns winning the Constellation Cup,

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Speaker 2: triathlet Hayden wild winning events in the World Series, New

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Speaker 2: Zealand claiming a record medal haul at the Paris Olympics,

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Speaker 2: and lots more. One of our regular contributors on the

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Speaker 2: show is coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith. He's worked with New

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Speaker 2: Zealand swimming, netball, rugby, triathlon, rugby league, rowing and the

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Speaker 2: Canoe Kayak Organization and has been to and worked in

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Speaker 2: sport in Southland, Otago, Canterbury, Wellington, Tatanhaki, Hamilton, Hawks, Bay Gisbon, Auckland, Northland,

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Speaker 2: Bay of Plenty and topor so he's pretty well placed

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Speaker 2: to analyze the success and put it and to context

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Speaker 2: for us.

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Speaker 3: Wayne.

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Speaker 2: First of all are their qualities which are uniquely key

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Speaker 2: with you're certainly common to New Zealanders, which contribute to

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Speaker 2: our sporting success.

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Speaker 3: I think about that a lot, because you know, part

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Speaker 3: of my job is as a sports consultant or as

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Speaker 3: an advisor, is to try and understand the why. So

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Speaker 3: anyone can look at the white and say, wow, look

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Speaker 3: this is impressive, but you start to dig in and say,

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Speaker 3: how did they do it? But why is this happening?

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Speaker 3: It can be sometimes you've got one great coach or

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Speaker 3: a set of circumstances that have led to a situation

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Speaker 3: where you've got an edgy in something. But the consistency

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Speaker 3: with which New Zealand has just managed to keep producing

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Speaker 3: great athletes, great coaches, great teams, men and women, different ages,

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Speaker 3: different sports, Paris sport, Olympic sport, the range has been incredible.

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Speaker 3: So you've got to start really into why. And look,

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Speaker 3: he may be listening. I can't remember the guy's name,

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Speaker 3: but I was at a conference in New Zealand in

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Speaker 3: Auckland a long time ago that' sport in New Zealand

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Speaker 3: had put on and they kicked off with a guy

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Speaker 3: who was a New Zealand cultural expert who explained the

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Speaker 3: way the Keywis do what they do. And he said,

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Speaker 3: when you think about us, he said, remember that on

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Speaker 3: the world stage, our three most prominent symbols are a

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Speaker 3: black jumper so no color if you like, a flightless,

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Speaker 3: quiet bird that hangs around under bushes, and the underside

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Speaker 3: of a fern. And he said, and I was trying

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Speaker 3: to figure ou where he was going with this point,

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Speaker 3: and he said, it's because we just get on with

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Speaker 3: it quietly, unassuming. We just do what we do and

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Speaker 3: we're not looking for accolades. We don't talk ourselves up.

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Speaker 3: And he talked about how your symbols, your national symbols,

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Speaker 3: very much reflect that, and every key we that I

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Speaker 3: spoke to at that conference said, yes, this guy gets it.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's why it's that's the contrast, say,

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Speaker 3: between New Zealand and Australia, New Zealand and the United States,

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Speaker 3: that we're very much the opposite. We like to talk

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Speaker 3: it up. There's a lot of bluster, there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of trash talking, and there's all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 3: Can we just get on with it? And I think

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Speaker 3: it's again that you've managed to do some remarkable things

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Speaker 3: without having to sing and dance and tell the world

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Speaker 3: about it. You just get on with it.

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Speaker 2: I guess the flip side of that, and you would

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Speaker 2: have picked up on this, I'm sure. Is the accusation

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Speaker 2: that has often aimed at us, and the comparison has

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Speaker 2: made with Australians on this is that we're not hard

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Speaker 2: nosed enough, we're not winners, We're just happy to participate.

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Speaker 2: But both things can be true, can't they.

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Speaker 3: Of course they can. I think there was. There was

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Speaker 3: a book written by great Australian historian called Jeffrey Blainey

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Speaker 3: called The Tyranny of Distance, and in it he argued

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Speaker 3: that who Australia was was a product of two things.

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Speaker 3: Was its history up to the mid nineteen hundreds was

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Speaker 3: largely a product of the influence of English colonization, and

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Speaker 3: then it's become very very multic contribution and impact of

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Speaker 3: indigenous Australians. But he said that was a big factor.

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Speaker 3: But he said one of the biggest reasons why we

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Speaker 3: are who we are was the tyranny of distance. Was

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Speaker 3: we couldn't just pop across the border and have interactions

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Speaker 3: with another country. Wasn't easy to get around and we

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Speaker 3: had to develop our own way of doing things, which

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Speaker 3: was both a strength and a weakness. And I think

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Speaker 3: New Zealand is that even more so. I think that

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Speaker 3: you know, it's easy to say, well, we're not like

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Speaker 3: France and Germany and we can't do it like the

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Speaker 3: United States and we don't have the advantages that Europeans

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Speaker 3: or the But you know what, I think that's one

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Speaker 3: of the key reasons why you say great is because

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Speaker 3: you've got to come up with your own way of

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Speaker 3: doing things. You can go, well, we're at the bottom

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Speaker 3: of the world or a long way from and it

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Speaker 3: costs us a bloody fortune to get and compete. Sure,

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Speaker 3: you could argue that those are the things that are

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Speaker 3: potential disadvantages, or you get on with it and say,

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Speaker 3: we're going to find a way to win that's genuinely

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Speaker 3: uniquely key. We We're going to find a way to

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Speaker 3: win that works for us where we are. And look,

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Speaker 3: I think not as much as it used to be, Pint.

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Speaker 3: It used to be that we could almost do what

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Speaker 3: I used to call hit and run missions, which was

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Speaker 3: to we would come up with some ideas and some

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Speaker 3: unique ways of doing things in this part of the

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Speaker 3: world and then head up north compete against Americans, the Canadians,

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Speaker 3: the Brits, the Europeans, and get a bit of an

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Speaker 3: edge on them because we had to come up with

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Speaker 3: ideas and things and ways of doing things that maybe

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Speaker 3: they weren't. Now the internet means everybody knows what everybody knows,

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Speaker 3: and you can get the same information and the ideas

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Speaker 3: that's walked around. But I think it's still very much

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Speaker 3: the case is that where Kiwis are brilliant is that

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Speaker 3: they're doing things, saying things, performing in uniquely Kiwi ways.

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Speaker 3: So I think you can argue both ways, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I think some of the dumb things that you could do.

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Speaker 3: So for example, if you're in in Kirwe sport is

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Speaker 3: so we want to be more like the Americans, Let's

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Speaker 3: bring an American coach in and let's become like there.

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Speaker 3: It's not going to work. I think the great success

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Speaker 3: story is Kiwis are great because they do things at

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Speaker 3: Kiwi Way. Love it. Now.

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Speaker 2: The taranny of distance is interesting, but what about our

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Speaker 2: size way and only five million of us over here?

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Speaker 2: Do you think that also feeds into our success? A

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Speaker 2: bit of a little brother mentality, we want to we'll

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Speaker 2: show you kind of.

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Speaker 3: Thing degree and look, I think of other countries around

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Speaker 3: the world who've got small populations who've managed to do

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Speaker 3: remarkable things. So you think of places like Croatia in

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Speaker 3: football they've done remarkably well. And places like Norway for example,

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Speaker 3: small population, relatively isolated, not the best weather. You wouldn't

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Speaker 3: go there for a holiday if you was looking for sunshine.

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Speaker 3: But with a small population. If you look at their

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Speaker 3: results in winter sport, particularly in the Winter Games, they've

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Speaker 3: been exceptional. But do you know even there if you

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Speaker 3: were to a list and you've just rattled off a handful,

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Speaker 3: But if you add to that swimming, going back to

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Speaker 3: ninety six with loader, if you go back to the

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Speaker 3: great great track and field distance runners that came through

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Speaker 3: the Lidiard program fifties and sixties, if you go back

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Speaker 3: that long and you look at Norway and you look

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Speaker 3: at Croats and other places with relatively small populations and

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Speaker 3: a little isolated you go, yeah, well they've done that.

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Speaker 3: But where are there runners that try Athletes, their golf players,

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Speaker 3: their canoe kayakers, the netballers, their rugby league players. The

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Speaker 3: range of sport that New Zealand has been successful in

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Speaker 3: is absolutely unparalleled. And if you do the the world championship,

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Speaker 3: world record, Olympic medal per head of population. I think

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Speaker 3: that per capita measuring brilliant. That it's mind blowing. And

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Speaker 3: you know, it's interesting that this thing that sporting leaders do,

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Speaker 3: which we call a junket. After every Olympics, they head

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Speaker 3: off and they go, well, US won the medal count,

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Speaker 3: or China won the medal count, or England did pretty

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Speaker 3: good in the medal count. Let's go and do some

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Speaker 3: benchmarking and have a look and see what they're doing.

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Speaker 3: And for the life of me, I don't understand, particularly

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Speaker 3: why smaller nations don't come to New Zealand to see

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Speaker 3: what you're doing, because if they truly understood the scope

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Speaker 3: and the range of sports that you've been six tssful in,

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Speaker 3: their heads would explode. But they chase the big shiny

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Speaker 3: objects that are really obvious and out there telling everybody

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Speaker 3: how good they are, and again made the key. We

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Speaker 3: just get on with it. It is a really unique

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Speaker 3: sporting situation on the world stage, and I'm surprised there's

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Speaker 3: not more people marching to your doors trying to figure

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Speaker 3: out what you've been doing.

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Speaker 2: So when you think about the qualities of a Kiwi

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Speaker 2: sports person, and let's move it to the elite level.

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Speaker 2: How do your best as a coach harnessed that? How

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Speaker 2: do you make the most ring the most out of

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Speaker 2: the qualities You've talked about as being quintessentially Kiwi.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm a big believer in a phrase that I

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Speaker 3: use called that ultimately, you play like your place and

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Speaker 3: you and I have talked about this some time back.

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Speaker 3: But Brazilians are not taught to play football. They're taught

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Speaker 3: to play football, but they do it that way because

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Speaker 3: they're Brazilians and twenty four hours a day they eat,

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Speaker 3: they drink, they sleep, they talk, their faith, their geography,

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Speaker 3: their family structure, their culture, everything about them is Brazilian.

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Speaker 3: That's reflected in the way that they play football. Germans

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Speaker 3: play football like Germans, Australians play cricket like Australia. The

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Speaker 3: teams that have been very, very successful on a sustained basis,

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Speaker 3: that's who we are. We know what it looks like

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Speaker 3: and we're doing it our unique way. Now, if you're coaching,

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Speaker 3: if someone said, way, Moe, once you come and coach

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Speaker 3: the key Wee team, I wouldn't even mention Australia as

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Speaker 3: much as I'm a proud Australian, I love it. I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't even dream of saying let's do it in an

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Speaker 3: Australian way or in New Zilla or a good way

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Speaker 3: Canadian way. I would say step one is to figure

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Speaker 3: out what does it look like in training day to

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Speaker 3: day to do it at key we way and look

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Speaker 3: at that. So you know, I sit back as the Australian,

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Speaker 3: I'd say, how to describe cuey culture, good people, friendly,

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Speaker 3: family focused of course, great unity in their culture with

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Speaker 3: the married people and the rest of the population in

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Speaker 3: New Zealand. Resilient, really tough, no excuses about the weather,

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Speaker 3: just they deal with it and get on with it.

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Speaker 3: You know, I would go, well, then that's the way

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Speaker 3: I'm going to coach them. Would not end for a

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Speaker 3: life of me. Come in and say, hey, guys, you

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Speaker 3: know you can be better. We're going to train like

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Speaker 3: the Americans, or we're going to copy the English system

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Speaker 3: and we're going to do it does not work. The

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Speaker 3: smartest thing you do as a coaches go. I'm dealing

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Speaker 3: with a group of athletes who are tough, resilient, really

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Speaker 3: openly caring, humble. There's no doubt about that respectful. Just

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Speaker 3: want to be left alone to get on with it.

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Speaker 3: Don't need to be motivated and yell that screen up

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Speaker 3: because that's not who they are. Just keep going back,

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Speaker 3: black jumper, underside of the fern, flightless bird, those concepts,

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Speaker 3: and that's the way that you coach them. They just

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Speaker 3: get on with it. And I think that's a beautiful

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Speaker 3: quot and to it has to be.

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Speaker 4: It has to be the secret mate because the only

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Speaker 4: consistent thing over the last fifty or sixty years. Technology

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Speaker 4: has changed, transports changed, our views on nutrition and training,

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Speaker 4: all those things have changed. The one consistent factor in

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Speaker 4: the Kiwi sporting success story since the nineteen fifties has

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Speaker 4: been that you're bloody Kiwei's that you're doing it the

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Speaker 4: way you do it because of who you are and

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Speaker 4: where you are.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, it's interesting that that Keywi's. Quite often I

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Speaker 3: think I'll be in a group and coaches will say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but you know, we haven't got this and we can't

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Speaker 3: do I would be if I had a new Zooalan passport,

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Speaker 3: knowing what you've achieved, you know, you'd be walking around

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Speaker 3: fill in ten foot tall.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're an honorary key Wee. You're always welcome over

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Speaker 2: here as you know, fascinating insights as always, mate, Thanks

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Speaker 2: so much. Let's hope that the key we success continues

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Speaker 2: and we'll catch up with you again sometime soon.

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Speaker 3: Always a pleasure, my friend.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Wayne, Wayne Goldsmith WG coaching dot commas his website

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Speaker 2: if you'd like to find out more about Wayne and

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Speaker 2: the work that he does, or he can just tune

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Speaker 2: in once every month or so when he joins us

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Speaker 2: with as many Pearls.

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Speaker 1: Of Wisdoms for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine.

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Speaker 1: Listen live to news talks ed b weekends from midday,

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