1 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Kielda. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. New Zealand's 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 2: been making some big trade moves on the world trade 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 2: stage recently. One of them is a possible minerals deal 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: with the United States. The US is pushing to loosen 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: China's grip on critical mineral processing by building alternate supply chains. 8 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 2: But with talks well underway, what will the preliminary decline 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 2: of a major seabed mining contract due to them? Today? 10 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 2: On the front page Business Desks deleep au Fonseco is. 11 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: With us to discuss the deal. 12 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 2: And whether New Zealand's bitten off more than it can chew. 13 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: So what do we know so far about the US 14 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 2: minerals deal? 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 3: So the US is trying to basically set up what 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 3: looks like a trade trading block for these critical minerals 17 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 3: and rare earth elements. So that is some sort of 18 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 3: arrangement with countries whereby there's a secondary source for a 19 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 3: lot of these that's not China. And the vice President 20 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 3: of the US, JD. Varance, he gave a speech where he, 21 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: you know, spoke about this. Interestingly, he chose not to 22 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 3: name China in the speech. He just said, when all 23 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 3: of this on, all of this mining is concentrated in 24 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 3: you know, one country's network, I guess. 25 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: One, yeah, yeah, it has to be the Philippines. 26 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's the only one they could be 27 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 3: referring to, or US perhaps all of our all of 28 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 3: our minerals. So there had been some earlier speculation that 29 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 3: it could be, you know, that they could be trying 30 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 3: to threaten tariffs against countries if they didn't sign up 31 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 3: to this. 32 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's going. 33 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 3: To come out later, but at least what they seem 34 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 3: to be promoting in the kind of release texters more 35 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 3: along the lines of they're going to use tariffs, but 36 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 3: tariffs to establish price flaws for these minerals, because you know, 37 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,679 Speaker 3: this whole, this whole debate around critical minerals involves a 38 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 3: lot of confusing terminology. You know, like we talk about 39 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 3: rare earth elements, but they're not rare. You know, they're 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 3: actually in a lot of countries on Earth. The issue though, 41 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 3: is that that Chinese established kind of a network for 42 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 3: getting these you know, raress and more importantly, they have 43 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 3: large control of the refining or they have the large 44 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 3: amount of the refining capability because they actually also use 45 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 3: a lot of these So you know, they're the leading 46 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 3: producer of sort of renewable energy powers if you talk 47 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 3: about solar panels, all that kind of thing, and all 48 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 3: the all of those sorts of things. They use these 49 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: rare earth elements. So they refine it and they're also 50 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 3: using it for manufacturing, and they've kind of quoted the 51 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 3: market on it, and so UIs is obviously concerned because 52 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: they obviously had the Trump tariff. He tried to impose 53 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: tariff's on China. Then China went in and posed its 54 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: own export controls on some of these rare earths, and 55 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 3: that prosed a problem for various US industries, and so 56 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 3: the US suddenly discovered it had didn't have leverage, and 57 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: the US has actually been trying to do something about 58 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 3: this for some time. In terms of diverse we find 59 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 3: the supply and part of the reason, you know, when 60 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: we talk about these minerals, part of the reason why 61 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 3: these rare earths, you know, why they're not so plentiful. 62 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: I guess why why one country is kind of controlling 63 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 3: all of the refining is because their prices are not 64 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 3: actually that high. 65 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: The prices for them that the price for them in 66 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: the will markets. 67 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 3: So the US kind of wants to establish a flaw 68 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 3: and so they want to establish. 69 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: A minimum price kind of thing within this block. 70 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 3: Thereby, you know, countries can have confidence that hey, if 71 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 3: we open up to mining, then we sort of are 72 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 3: going to be guaranteed kind of like, you know, at 73 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 3: least this price for it. 74 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 2: Right, So if you spend a billion dollars on a 75 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: making a refining plant or a mining consent or something, 76 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: you know that you're going to get like, what's three 77 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 2: billion back or something, Whereas at the moment you're kind 78 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,279 Speaker 2: of just throwing a billion. 79 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 3: Dollars at the wall, yeah, because you don't know, like 80 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 3: you don't know what the prices are going to be. 81 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 3: And so far if you look at the price, they've 82 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 3: been pretty volatile over time. And the USE is also 83 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 3: saying that they're going to applow money to investment. I 84 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 3: think Australia has actually been on the receiving and at 85 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 3: least with some ideas around that and how use money 86 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 3: might be used over there. That's all kind of part 87 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 3: of the picture on the US critical minerals front. 88 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:38,119 Speaker 1: And New Zealand of course was there. 89 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 3: And I think this is it's sort of got confused, 90 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 3: I suppose in the public because this whole foreign policy 91 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 3: debate is also tacked into a debate we have been 92 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 3: having already about frogs and kiwis and mining basically right, 93 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 3: and that's placed in New Zealand and whether we want 94 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 3: to do it at all. 95 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, don't forget the skinks and the Mawi dolphins a fair. 96 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: Bit as well. Keep track of the species kind of. 97 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: Like I read your opinion piece on this and I 98 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 2: like this line. First, the government denied it was happening, 99 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 2: this US deal. Then when everyone noticed it was happening, 100 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: our politicians explained it really badly. So they were like, no, no, 101 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: nothing to see here. But when everyone was like, hey, 102 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: what's that, they were like, they didn't really own up 103 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 2: to it or explain it really well. 104 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: Is that yeah? 105 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 3: I mean yeah, basically, I mean I think that it's 106 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 3: I don't think they did themselves any favors by sort 107 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 3: of letting a lot of this stuff just leak out 108 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 3: rather than fronting up and saying, this is what is happening, Well, 109 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,559 Speaker 3: this is what we're kind of involved in. And also 110 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 3: I think that they haven't really done much of a 111 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 3: good job in terms of really getting across the case 112 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 3: about what exactly these minerals are that we're talking about, 113 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 3: and what New Zeal's place in that would be, or 114 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 3: even discussing it in public, because I think a number 115 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 3: of different roles that New Zealand could play and this 116 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 3: hunt for you know, critical minerals, you know, while we're 117 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: discussing all of this, it's important to remember that, you know, 118 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 3: minerals is not just we're not actually just interested in 119 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 3: the ore, you know, we're actually interested in the properties 120 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 3: that these all have. You know, it's what we can 121 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 3: kind of do with them, with you know, how they 122 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: conduct electricity, all this kind of stuff, and you know, 123 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 3: and that's the important part. And there are various ways 124 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 3: of getting to that, right One is you know, mining, 125 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 3: another one is you know, recycling, and this kind of 126 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 3: thing we we won't you know, get all the way there, 127 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 3: probably on you know, just leaning on one of these 128 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 3: strategies alone, even if it's you know, something like recycling, 129 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 3: we probably would need to have like you know, new 130 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 3: mining globally, more refining globally. But you know that can 131 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 3: different countries might have different bus to play in this, right, so. 132 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: We don't exactly know what our role is yet. We 133 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: could be we could become the world's leading recycling of 134 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 2: laptop screens or something in the world, or you know, 135 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: getting stuff from that, you know what I mean. So 136 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 2: it's not it's not always going to be like peak 137 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: Axe and you know, getting coal and stuff. 138 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and if we want to be something different, if 139 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 3: you know, I think that that's sort of the role 140 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: that we expect kind of politicians to play because this, 141 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 3: you know, we're talking about something that's quite far removed 142 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 3: from the market here, Like this is not really like 143 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 3: a we're talking to this criinical mineral debate and what 144 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 3: the US is trying to do. This is not really 145 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: like free market, global free market as we've been sort 146 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 3: of practicing it for years. Right, We're talking about preferences. 147 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 3: We're talking about creating an alternative because at the moment, 148 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 3: you know, the free market is sort of cornered, right, 149 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 3: and we're not comfortable with that. And I think that 150 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 3: would be an issue even if there weren't these geopolitical 151 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 3: issues happening with China. And that's perhaps one element that 152 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 3: I think I mentioned in my opinion piece, one element 153 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 3: I think hasn't been really well communicated by a lot 154 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 3: of New Zealand's leadership is that this does not necessarily 155 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 3: have to be a debate about China. Because any in 156 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 3: any kind of situation where you've got all of your 157 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 3: sort of mineral refining minerals concentrated in one place, there 158 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 3: are issues because in a world of climate change, you're 159 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 3: going to actually face situations where particular countries, you may 160 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 3: have something which actually affects the supply in that one 161 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 3: country and then what happens then there are going to 162 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 3: be issues. And so you know, there's a situation in 163 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 3: Chile where they've had something like a one in one 164 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 3: thousand year, one thousand year, you know, drought has been 165 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 3: going on for something for fifteen years, and that affected 166 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 3: their copper production. And so you know, there's various places 167 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 3: that produce copper. They actually have to be one of 168 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 3: the largest, but you know there's various places that provide copper. 169 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 3: But what if that has happened in terms of some 170 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 3: of these critical you know, refined products, critical minerals, and 171 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 3: the supply had been more concentrated that that would be 172 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 3: a big issue. 173 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 4: Well, it's a little bit embarrassing actually, because it reports 174 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 4: very quickly up to Washington, DC, where New Zealand had 175 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 4: top government officials talking about how New Zellain could be 176 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 4: part of a global supply chain and so to do that, 177 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 4: we're going to be able to mine, right, and vanadium 178 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 4: is one of the critical minerals that the world's after. 179 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 4: So this decision, it's a preliminary decision, so I like 180 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 4: to wait till the very end to form a conclusion. 181 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 4: So we just have to hope that sex evidence and 182 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 4: science prevail at the end of the day when the 183 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 4: final decision is made. 184 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 2: So how does all of this tie into So that's 185 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: what's happening on the global stage with the minerals. What 186 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 2: about this preliminary decline of ttr's South Taranaki seabed mining project. 187 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's the New Zealand end of the debate, right, 188 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 3: because that while we're having the critical minerals debate, we're 189 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 3: actually having a parallel debate about whether we should be 190 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 3: a mining where, how much do we want to do, 191 00:09:58,480 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 3: what kind of value are. 192 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: We going to get out of it? 193 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 3: So TGR Transition Resources have been having a big you know, 194 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 3: it's been going on for years, this whole idea about 195 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 3: mine see bit in Taranaki, and you know, they've just 196 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 3: they've they've gotten into themselves into the fast Track as 197 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 3: a shortless process that was never an automatic although that 198 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 3: you know, maybe portrayed as such. That was never an 199 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 3: automatic granting of a consent. And in some ways the 200 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 3: fast Track panel has kind of proved its chops. You know, 201 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 3: they've declined, they know they've declined the application and I've 202 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 3: looked at their share price, my heir, but you know, 203 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 3: it had some significant declines immediately after immediately after that. 204 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 3: So after that decision was released, New Zealand shaholders actually 205 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 3: got a little bit a little bit worse off than 206 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 3: their Australian counterparts because the release on that came out. 207 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: On Thursday evening and Friday was White Tonguing day. 208 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 3: So Michael's closed but it's dual listed, so you know 209 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 3: on the AX and Vista's got a bit of a 210 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 3: head start selling out. That whole debate is you know, 211 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 3: raging as well. And yeah, you know they're sort of 212 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 3: saying that there will be critical minerals that they could 213 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 3: have mind out of that as well. 214 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: Like vuranium or something. 215 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think with a lot of the stuff, 216 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: you know, you can have a lot of these. 217 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 3: I think it's important to remember that the prices of 218 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 3: some of these are not necessarily you know, not all 219 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 3: of them. Just because you have a critical mineral doesn't 220 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 3: mean that the world is in shortage. The issue is 221 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 3: actually not in the world is and the shortage of 222 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 3: the world is just doesn't have as many diverse amounts 223 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 3: to supply. So where do we get that? You know, 224 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 3: where do we get that from? Do we And there 225 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: may be some that you don't you know that not 226 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 3: all of it needs to come from New Zealand, but 227 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 3: then again, maybe. 228 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: Some of it does. 229 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: Mineral CEO Joe c Vadau, she's called it embarrassing and 230 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: damaging to New Zealand's global reputation during these US no 231 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 2: negotiations that seabed mining decline decline before the decline, so 232 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 2: we get the actual decline or approval in March. Would 233 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 2: you agree that it is embarrassing and it may damage 234 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 2: our negotiations with the US? 235 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 3: I want to thought so because it's only one project. 236 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 3: So and I don't you know, I don't even know. 237 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 3: I mean I think that there's other reserves that they're 238 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 3: talking about. There's something you know, on the West coast 239 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 3: as well. You know some about that. There will always 240 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 3: be you know, there are multiple ideas of where some 241 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 3: of these minerals could be. And you know, I think 242 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 3: that the US they would want some kind of certainty 243 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 3: when it comes to you know, investing. But you know, arguably, 244 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 3: if you're on the other side, you might look at 245 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 3: this and see, say, well, in some ways, the fast 246 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 3: tracked regime ensures a degree of certainty because the decline 247 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 3: is as a decline that happened relatively quickly. If you're 248 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 3: reading the decision, it's not it does seem relatively comprehensive 249 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 3: in terms of what they've gone through. I wouldn't pretend 250 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 3: to be a resource management lawyer, but you know, at 251 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 3: at least the outside of the you know, decision is 252 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 3: quite long. They've you know, gone through a number of things. 253 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 3: They've sort of they have acknowledged the benefits, but then 254 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 3: they seem to have said that in some ways there 255 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 3: are some scenarios where they don't feel like enough information 256 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 3: has been provided or that you know, that it's not 257 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 3: going to you know, if that scenario happened, then it 258 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 3: would sort of overrule some of these benefits. I mean 259 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 3: that you're always going to have debates over whether any 260 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 3: one proposal how important it's going to be, and money 261 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 3: industry is going to have a view on that, and 262 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 3: there are you know, going to be money expects are 263 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 3: going to have, like you know, a view on you know, 264 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 3: the impact that that has. I don't know whether that 265 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 3: decision itself is going to have is going to think 266 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 3: our you. 267 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: Know, hopes and dreams in the I mean. 268 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 3: There are other places too that we could get other 269 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 3: projects that we could do minerals. They might not be 270 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 3: as far advanced, but there are minerals, and you know 271 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 3: there are but there are problems, you know, perhaps with 272 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 3: some of the ways that we're looking at mining. You know, 273 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 3: there are projects that are facing issues. You know, you 274 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 3: talk about kind of goal projects and the South Island 275 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 3: there's you know, there is a sort of degree of 276 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 3: uncertainty that some of the miners see is floating around 277 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 3: and you know, depending on that is always going to 278 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 3: be a problem for miners. But I think on the 279 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 3: other end of things, what you've also got to realize 280 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 3: is that a lot of these mining companies. They're looking 281 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 3: for places where this investment is going to work out 282 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 3: over a very long term because they make quite a 283 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 3: big investment, so they want it to Actually they don't 284 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 3: necessarily want to completely alienate the community that they don't 285 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 3: want something that is not really wanted by the community 286 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 3: necessarily because they're going to have to be there for all. 287 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: Because sometimes these contracts are like one. 288 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: Hundred years or so. 289 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like they're they're definitely because you know, that's 290 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 3: the amount of time that it takes for a lot 291 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 3: of the investment to pay off. Yeah, And I also 292 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 3: think as a country, you know, we've spent a lot 293 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: of time talking about this minerals and the cash we 294 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 3: can get out of it, but really like a lot 295 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 3: of the benefits of it are some of the ancillary stuff, 296 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 3: you know, the the involvement of mining technology, the you 297 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 3: know growth there some New Zealand companies doing some great 298 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 3: things around mining technology, and you know, the more of 299 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 3: a minerals industry that we have in New Zealand, the 300 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 3: more opportunity there is to develop those of that kind 301 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 3: of technology. Of course, there has to be a particular scale, 302 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 3: but you know, there's more opportunity. 303 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: They're these kinds of opportunities. 304 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 3: So it's not just you know, we're shipping off the 305 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 3: ore and we're getting the companies getting some money and 306 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 3: we're getting a some royalties and maybe there's some people 307 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 3: being in the local community. There's other impacts as well. 308 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us to Leifah. 309 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: Great to be here, Thanks for having me. 310 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 311 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 312 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: at enzidherld dot co dot enz The Front Page is 313 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: hosted and produced by me Chelsea Daniels. Caine Dickie is 314 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: our studio operator, Richard Martin, our producer and editor, and 315 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 2: our executive producer is Jane Ye. Follow the Front Page 316 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: on the iHeart app or wherever you get your podcasts, 317 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 2: and join us next time for another look beyond the headlines.