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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks Be follow

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Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: More students are leaving school early, so should we make

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Speaker 2: them stay longer and increase the leaving age to seventeen.

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Speaker 2: Patrick Drummer is the headmaster of Mount Albert Grammar School.

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Speaker 2: He's a good man and he joins us on the line. Now, Patrick,

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Speaker 2: very good afternoon to you.

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Speaker 3: Good afternoon, How are you very good?

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Speaker 4: Welcome back to the show. So we've just seen the

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Speaker 4: highest number of early leaving exemptions since two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 4: What do you think is driving more fifteen year olds

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Speaker 4: to leave school?

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Speaker 3: Patrick, Well, it's interestingly I've just really come across that

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Speaker 3: story today as well. I suppose like everyone else, but

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Speaker 3: I suppose I want to look at the actual number.

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Speaker 3: It's not a huge number when you think of the

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Speaker 3: number of secondary students we have in the country, right,

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Speaker 3: I think we've got something like two fifty three hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand students, So it's a it's a real drop in

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Speaker 3: the bucket there, I suppose from my perspective, without having

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Speaker 3: dug too deep into the into the numbers or behind

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Speaker 3: the staf', there is that if these youngsters are heading

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Speaker 3: into purposeful post secondary environment work further study. I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's really it's a real good news story. I mean

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Speaker 3: one of the big concerns we've had is across the

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Speaker 3: country of students who are leaving without a qualification and

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Speaker 3: then and they're not continuing any employment or training at all.

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Speaker 3: And that's probably a much bigger concern. That's that's in

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Speaker 3: the many thousands of students.

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Speaker 4: What are kids and parents have to do, like admin

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Speaker 4: wise with the school if their kids want to leave

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Speaker 4: at fifteen, they can't just not turn up. They have

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Speaker 4: to organize these things.

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Speaker 3: Right, Well, I'll be in trouble if they don't turn up.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, you're right. Look, they need to go through

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Speaker 3: a process with the Ministry of Education and this sort

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Speaker 3: of a vetting process there and then it'll come to

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Speaker 3: the school for our opinion and our support for that

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Speaker 3: and what usually we put down some potential reasons why

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Speaker 3: that might be. I mean, this is quite these these

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Speaker 3: are exceptional cases. It's not on a it's not not

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Speaker 3: a wide scale or you know, a current at all.

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Speaker 3: And then it goes back to the Ministry and it's

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Speaker 3: approved and those students can leave school before sixteen.

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Speaker 2: So there's already been talk of increasing the leaving age

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Speaker 2: to seventeen. Patrick, how would you feel about that? Would

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Speaker 2: that be counterintuitive to ensuring fifteen sixteen year olds actually

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Speaker 2: go on to better education if they decide to leave.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think it's what they are doing if

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Speaker 3: they are going to leave. So I think the staying

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Speaker 3: at school, the incentive to stay at school obviously is

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Speaker 3: the ideal, but you know it's not for everyone in

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Speaker 3: terms of what different schools offer. You know, you've got

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Speaker 3: to go to your local school, zoned school, and that's

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Speaker 3: the rules law we have that school may not be

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Speaker 3: totally suitable for a student. So, you know, raising the

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Speaker 3: age to seventeen I think as aspirational. I think it's

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Speaker 3: a good signal that we value more learning is better.

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Speaker 3: But again, if those students aren't staying to seventeen, we

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Speaker 3: need to know where they're going because if they're just

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Speaker 3: going out to a pretty black future, you know we

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Speaker 3: pay for that, don't we? Down the track?

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Speaker 4: What do kids miss out? Do you think they miss something?

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Speaker 4: Miss something, even if it's you know, jumping off before

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Speaker 4: year thirteen, do they miss something in terms of development

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Speaker 4: and I know, socializing and you know what the school

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Speaker 4: has to offer.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think there's huge opportunities as you move through

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Speaker 3: a school into the senior school. You know what, if

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Speaker 3: you're engaged in your school, there are incredible opportunities. There's

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Speaker 3: leadership opportunities, there's the mentoring of the younger students. The

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Speaker 3: relationship of a school with it senior students evolves, doesn't it.

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Speaker 3: We handle our year nine students a little bit different

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Speaker 3: than we might we might our year twelve and thirteen students,

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Speaker 3: and that's just a part of the school. I really

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Speaker 3: enjoy is watching students grow and develop and mature through

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Speaker 3: the system. And you know they are they are great

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Speaker 3: young adults by the time they are leaving school. So

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Speaker 3: ideally you'd want everyone to experience that and have the

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Speaker 3: confidence then to go be successful at school and then

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Speaker 3: go on to those next stages afterwards.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's a testament to you that you want to

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Speaker 4: keep them right through to year thirteen. Considering how absolutely

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Speaker 4: rammed Albert Grammar is with people, you could use the space,

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Speaker 4: couldn't you.

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Speaker 3: Well that's right, but I mean, you know that's our job,

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Speaker 3: that's our business, and you know, we'd like to see

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Speaker 3: everyone come right through from year nine to thirteen to

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Speaker 3: do five years of secondary education and then kick on

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Speaker 3: strongly after that.

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Speaker 4: Now, Patrick drum Headmaster of Mount Albert Graham, you might

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Speaker 4: not want a weigh on this. This is a weigh

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Speaker 4: in on this. This is a secondary topic that I've

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Speaker 4: been talking about. What do you say to people like

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Speaker 4: me who claim this is going back in time that

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Speaker 4: the cane was better than detention because you didn't miss

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Speaker 4: the bus home with the cane.

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Speaker 3: You're setting me up here, aren't you. I was probably

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Speaker 3: at the school, probably earlier than you at my own schooling,

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Speaker 3: I suppose, so I know what you're talking about. But no, look,

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Speaker 3: Will's moved on. We've got to find other ways. You know,

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Speaker 3: we haven't got a great record on some of our

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Speaker 3: solutions in terms of physical solutions to things, you know,

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Speaker 3: in our communities, and I think we need to model,

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Speaker 3: let at school, these other ways to solve problems and

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Speaker 3: get the result we want rather than than I think

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Speaker 3: the Canes head its day put it that way.

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Speaker 4: I don't think I'm getting a lot of sport and

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Speaker 4: bringing it back from my kids.

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Speaker 2: Attention is working pretty well, hey, Patrick, Really good to

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Speaker 2: catch up with you. Thank you so much for your

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Speaker 2: time and we'll talk down the track.

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Speaker 3: Great to check all the business man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. That is Patrick drum headmaster at Mounts

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Speaker 2: Albert Grammar.

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