1
00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,720
Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty Unique Homes

2
00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:05,800
Speaker 1: Uniquely for you.

3
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,480
Speaker 2: Joining the Huddle tonight Garethe's former Green MP, Hi Gareth

4
00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,080
Speaker 2: Good to have you on the show and joining us

5
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:17,520
Speaker 2: is Liam Here, lawyer and political commentator. Hey Liam both,

6
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:18,959
Speaker 2: So what do we make of that?

7
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 3: Liam? It was you were really talking at cross purposes

8
00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,479
Speaker 3: and it's interesting.

9
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:26,720
Speaker 1: Right.

10
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,600
Speaker 3: Look, here's my view, My sort of contrary and take

11
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:31,840
Speaker 3: is that you don't have to be sought on a

12
00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,960
Speaker 3: crime to be skeptical of boot camps. And you know,

13
00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 3: I think we should have the numbers because I suspect

14
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,240
Speaker 3: the numbers do point to a failure and that family

15
00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,080
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that we need to be soft on a crime,

16
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,280
Speaker 3: but it does mean that we probably need to recognize

17
00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,840
Speaker 3: that right when social engineering works no better than left

18
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,520
Speaker 3: wing social social engineering does. And you know this idea

19
00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,880
Speaker 3: that you can you can fix people have defective widgets

20
00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 3: that can be molded back into being useful members of society.

21
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,560
Speaker 3: Who does one need trick that they's just wrong? It's

22
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,840
Speaker 3: done right wing populism and it's never worked. So I

23
00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,280
Speaker 3: don't need to be cynical. I believe that crime should

24
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 3: be followed by punishment. But I don't think there's any

25
00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,679
Speaker 3: real reason to have any confidence in this particular measure.

26
00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:17,560
Speaker 3: In the fact that we don't know the numbers and

27
00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:18,840
Speaker 3: then it is aren't going to be given to us

28
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,679
Speaker 3: sort of reinforces that skepticism.

29
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,880
Speaker 2: I'm skeptical about not having numbers too, as skeptical as

30
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 2: the next guy. Gareth. Is this about rehabilitating kids or

31
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,040
Speaker 2: is this a let's get them off the street because

32
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 2: I'm sick of them stealing my stuff?

33
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:35,880
Speaker 4: Could be a little bit of both, And you know,

34
00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:37,679
Speaker 4: this is part of the danger when you sort of

35
00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,720
Speaker 4: come up with a good idea and opposition that looks

36
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 4: good on a press release and a media launch, but

37
00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,919
Speaker 4: you've got to follow through. And the government really looks

38
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,679
Speaker 4: like in this case, and I agree with Liam on

39
00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,480
Speaker 4: this point, didn't work last time, doesn't look like it's

40
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,840
Speaker 4: working this time from the scant evidence we do have,

41
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,480
Speaker 4: So it looks like this is just management of political

42
00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,360
Speaker 4: optics and hiding it away. The government's coming up with

43
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 4: legislation to bring this in to have even longer periods

44
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,040
Speaker 4: of time for these use to be in there. It's

45
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,280
Speaker 4: pretty hard to go to effectiveness if it's not going

46
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,760
Speaker 4: to release the data. Pretty hard to get long term

47
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,560
Speaker 4: consensus and buying across the political aisle if you're not

48
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,760
Speaker 4: even going to share the data. So yeah, it doesn't

49
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,400
Speaker 4: look good for the government. But the fact of the

50
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,640
Speaker 4: matter is we don't want to see use offending full stop,

51
00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,400
Speaker 4: and we definitely don't want to see youse reoffending full stop.

52
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:21,880
Speaker 2: No, well, I'm glad to have with the Paul Fund

53
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,160
Speaker 2: and got to that too. GARETHEUS and LIMB here on

54
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,600
Speaker 2: the huddle, the huddle.

55
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:31,240
Speaker 1: With New Zealand Southeby's International Realty, the ones for unmashed.

56
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,600
Speaker 2: Results on the huddle tonight. GARETHEUS and LIMB here? Guys.

57
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,760
Speaker 2: This caampbell A bactor story out today. So it's Michael

58
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:41,040
Speaker 2: Baker and some other scientists warning which our food regulator

59
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,680
Speaker 2: is called an alarmist paper, but warning that you'll get

60
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 2: Campbella bacta from chicken in your kitchen and we need

61
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 2: food labeling to stop this from spreading further. Liam, I'm

62
00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,920
Speaker 2: just not sure I know that chicken. You know you

63
00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 2: can get sick from chicken? Who like who doesn't know that?

64
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,920
Speaker 3: I mean, we did draw the line in terms of

65
00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,360
Speaker 3: having to label things and what warnings on things, where

66
00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 3: we used to have an expectation that that sort of

67
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,760
Speaker 3: common sense knowledge, you know, so it gets transmitted from

68
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,960
Speaker 3: one generation to the next. I used to work in

69
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 3: a supermarket and when I was at UNI, and I remember,

70
00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,440
Speaker 3: no one had to be told that when you were

71
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,080
Speaker 3: packing a check in, we had to pack it separate

72
00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,160
Speaker 3: from everything else. It was just something that we picked

73
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 3: up or we learned from our parents. And you know,

74
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,080
Speaker 3: so for me, it's like, oh, yeah, okay, I guess

75
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,400
Speaker 3: so he's another warning label. But why are we so

76
00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,360
Speaker 3: bad at transmitting this information? I mean, Garreth, you used

77
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 3: to works looking burgers, so you know presumably you knew

78
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,000
Speaker 3: that too, right, I we didn't have to be told,

79
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 3: you know.

80
00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 4: Put me, I worked in a supermarket too, and I

81
00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 4: did you know the safety courses and you learn all

82
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 4: about that stuff. I mean, it's pretty surprising. I Mean

83
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,120
Speaker 4: what this study shows is since two thousand and eight,

84
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,480
Speaker 4: when apparently we had the highest templer back to rate

85
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 4: in the world at the time, but since then Board

86
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,360
Speaker 4: and some regulation, we've had nine thousand hospitalizations sixty thousand deaths,

87
00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 4: costing one point four billion dollars. So for me, it's

88
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 4: a bit of a wake up. I didn't realize it

89
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:01,960
Speaker 4: was such a massive problem.

90
00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 2: This is the thing. Though we had the food in

91
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,080
Speaker 2: New Zealand Food Safety on tonight. It actually it's it's

92
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 2: you know, Michael Baker at EL said sixty deaths. They say,

93
00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,920
Speaker 2: actually it was only three deaths for people who died

94
00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,279
Speaker 2: of Compella vector as opposed to just with compeller vector.

95
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 3: Oh no, like COVID.

96
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:28,120
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly who do we trust? I don't know, but

97
00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,960
Speaker 2: I think the point is, you know, everybody knows putting

98
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,599
Speaker 2: a label on chicken is not going to tell us

99
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:33,680
Speaker 2: anything we don't already know.

100
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,120
Speaker 4: You know that, I understand. They're also recommending we introduce

101
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,320
Speaker 4: limits on the safe allowable levels of campla vector on

102
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,640
Speaker 4: fresh chicken. Look, I'm sure most people cook chicken. Well,

103
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,920
Speaker 4: I don't need chicken myself, so it's not a problem

104
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,760
Speaker 4: for me. But I've got chickens in the coops, so

105
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,680
Speaker 4: I need to make sure I'm cleaning it out more frequently.

106
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,880
Speaker 3: Then. Like so, it's not just eating though, it's it's

107
00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:59,720
Speaker 3: how you saw it and packet and you know what

108
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,400
Speaker 3: you and I don't know. I just I've always felt

109
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,200
Speaker 3: that that's the hype of thing that parents meant to

110
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,400
Speaker 3: transmit to their children organically, and for some reason we

111
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:08,480
Speaker 3: just don't do that anymore.

112
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,680
Speaker 2: Gareth, what are you having for dinner tonight? Are you vegan?

113
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,919
Speaker 4: I'm not vegan. I'm a vegetarian and my daughter's making enchiladas,

114
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,920
Speaker 4: who's a fourteen year old, was in the kitchen.

115
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,840
Speaker 2: Oh fantastic. No, So won't be putting chicken in your

116
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:21,719
Speaker 2: enchiladas tonight?

117
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,159
Speaker 4: No, none for me. But I think people are probably

118
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:26,520
Speaker 4: going to be worried next time they go to the

119
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,240
Speaker 4: bakery and buy them to a chicken sandwich.

120
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 2: Hey, the idea of a rates cap for counsels, Liam,

121
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:37,800
Speaker 2: Should we also cap taxes from government while we're at it?

122
00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I love it as a provisional taxpayer, I'd

123
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,800
Speaker 3: love that, but it's different. It's fundamentally different, and I

124
00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 3: don't think you should just beat up on local government.

125
00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 3: They get a lot of stuff that they have to

126
00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,440
Speaker 3: do and does it'll work from the quite tight limits already.

127
00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,200
Speaker 3: But Parliament is sovereign, right. Parliament is the sovereign body

128
00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,040
Speaker 3: that represents everyone in the country. It's got unlimited power.

129
00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,600
Speaker 3: Whereas Counsel is delegated from from below, so I think

130
00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,320
Speaker 3: I think Parliament can legitimately tell Counsel to do things

131
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,160
Speaker 3: that it doesn't have to do itself. I think that's

132
00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,040
Speaker 3: that's pretty constitutionally sound.

133
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 2: How are the other problem of courses, Gareth, is how

134
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,200
Speaker 2: do you actually make a cap work? You know, are

135
00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 2: you talking about core services? Are you talking about other stuff?

136
00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,279
Speaker 4: Well, that's just right, and you could end up playing

137
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,120
Speaker 4: a game of whack a mole where they just increase

138
00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,440
Speaker 4: the parking fines and the traffic cameras and all the

139
00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,880
Speaker 4: other fees and levies they put on. So it's whack

140
00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:29,760
Speaker 4: a mole. But it looks like the government doesn't have

141
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:31,840
Speaker 4: the support of even New Zealand First and Act at

142
00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,880
Speaker 4: the stage to advance this policy. The problem is right,

143
00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,800
Speaker 4: we've got this broken funding system for local government. That's

144
00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,359
Speaker 4: the real elephant in the room. And look, I support

145
00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,120
Speaker 4: ACT in New Zealand First policies to return some GST

146
00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,120
Speaker 4: to the regions. I think that would be a much

147
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,600
Speaker 4: more substantial solution. Then again, this is a policy that

148
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,400
Speaker 4: looks good in the headline, but it's going to have

149
00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:51,760
Speaker 4: all these downstream.

150
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,880
Speaker 2: Problems and get central government paying some rates. That might

151
00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:55,839
Speaker 2: be a nice idea too.

152
00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,400
Speaker 1: For more from hither Duplessy Allen Drive listen live and talks.

153
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,640
Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

154
00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:04,720
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio