1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Madam again. Hi, I'm Liam Dan, New Zealand Herald's Business 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: editor at Large and welcome to this episode of Money Talks. 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: This is a podcast about money, but we're not going 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: to tell you how to get rich, and we're not 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: going to try and pick the next interest rate move. 6 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: In this series, I'll be talking to interesting New Zealanders 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: about how money has shaped their lives and what they've 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: learned over the years. For today's podcast, I'm joined by 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: singer songwriter and she had frontman John too Good Cura John. 10 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Money. 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 2: Talks, Cureda. How are you good. 12 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: Thanks, I'm excited to have you here and excited to 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: hear you're about to go on tour again across the 14 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,959 Speaker 1: country and first solo album. Is that right? 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 2: It is the first solo album and which is weird 16 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: after thirty three years in the industry. But it just 17 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: it was circumstance, covid Lockdown's lots of personal family carnage, 18 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: lost my mum, lost my brother in law. Yeah, so 19 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: I just needed to I needed some gentle music, so 20 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 2: I picked up my accous guitar and started writing. That 21 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 2: was my way, like therapy. It was total therapy and 22 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 2: you know what it's like out of pain. You know, 23 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 2: I think some of the best words I've ever done, 24 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: because it's like I had to be brutally honest with myself, 25 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 2: you know. And I'm really proud of this record. It's 26 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 2: a beautiful thing. I mean, I made it to sort 27 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: of hold me, you know. It was supposed to be 28 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 2: comforting to me, and it seems to. When I play 29 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 2: the stuff live, there's always someone that comes up and says, well, 30 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: that happened to me, you know, And yeah. 31 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: I mean we've been privileged enough to ends you me 32 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: to hear a couple of the songs and advance and 33 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: it's pretty heavy stuff like you're talking about, but it 34 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: doesn't come across that way musically. It's quite of uplifting. 35 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 2: No, well, it is. It's supposed to be the way through. 36 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: It's a way through. It's a way through. I mean, 37 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: it's it's just life, you know. I mean I think, 38 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: you know, my mum would prefer to have it that 39 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: way than losing her children rather. You know, that's the 40 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: way of the world. If you stick around long enough 41 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: and to lose someone that you love, you know, but 42 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: Noine sort of prepares you for that. I think in 43 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: the West we sort of we're taught to sort of 44 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: live like we're always going to be here, and then 45 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: we're so shocked and surprised when someone dies. Yeah, and 46 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: it's like yeah, so I think, yeah, it's good to 47 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 2: break the stigma of that. I mean, it's just part 48 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: of life, you know. 49 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, look, let's jump into some of the money 50 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: talks questions, and some of that will be family and 51 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: growing up and things. You know, if we went right back, 52 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: do you what are your first memories of money in 53 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: your life, holding it in your hand, that kind of thing. 54 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean we were I was basically brought 55 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: up by two British immigrants, ten pound poms, you know, 56 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 2: both given ten pounds to come and start a new 57 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: life on the other side of the planet. Dad was 58 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: a cabinetmaker, Mum was a receptionist at State Insurance. We 59 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: didn't have much growing up. Yeah, it was Wellington, right, Wellington. 60 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: All the people I grew up calling auntie and uncle 61 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 2: were all just the people that were on the boats 62 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: with my parents. Son't wasn't until I was seven and 63 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: we went back to London to before I met real 64 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: blood relatives or anything like that, so it was I 65 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 2: suppose an immigrant experience, British immigrant experience. I didn't realize 66 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: that we weren't very rich until I sort of went 67 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: to high school and started hanging out with people that 68 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: had more money than me, and then went, oh, okay, right, 69 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,119 Speaker 2: I mean I remember some of the happiest memories from 70 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 2: childhood was like my parents to make it okay for 71 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: the kids that we didn't have much. We'd sit around 72 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 2: a gas heater with white bread on a big fork 73 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: and toast the toast the bread. You know. It was 74 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: like exciting, man, it was like and it was exciting. 75 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: It was like, yeah, I get to cook my own food. 76 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: But it was just one slice of bread. So yeah, 77 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: it didn't really have much going up. Yeah did you 78 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: get pocket money? Yeah? Once, yeah, I think once once 79 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 2: we started. Yeah, we did. Actually, we all took We 80 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: had a sort of a chart. You know. I had 81 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: an older brother and sister, so you know, someone was drying, 82 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: someone was washing, someone was looking after the car, and 83 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: you know the lawns and stuff, and yeah, yeah, I 84 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: used to do that for sure. 85 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the things that comes through all the 86 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: people I've talked on this podcast is that new Zealand 87 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: in those days. You know, there wasn't such a huge disparit. 88 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: You know, if you didn't have much money in the family, 89 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: the things that people were doing with money, there wasn't 90 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: as much going on, was it. 91 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: No, not really. I never felt we were lacking anything like. 92 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 2: It was very loving, supportive family life and all my 93 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 2: friends who were you know. I went to Island Bay 94 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 2: Primary School in Wellington and everyone was from everywhere, you know, 95 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: like and went to a public school. It was great. 96 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 2: I loved it. I love my childhood in Island Bay. 97 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: It was fantastic. 98 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean at school where it was music a 99 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: thing right off the bat. 100 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 2: Music was a thing even back in the family home. 101 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 2: Like my two earliest memories is one was the Lolli 102 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 2: jar because I really liked sugar. My parents loliger and 103 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: then the other one was my parents all in one 104 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 2: record player and had a speaker built into it, and 105 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: I used to just watch the Beatles Hard Day's Night 106 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 2: go around and be fascinated by this alchemy of putting 107 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: a needle down on a bit of plastic that was 108 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 2: going around and then the sound would be generated. And 109 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: I was like how it was alchemy, And I wanted 110 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 2: to know, how do you do that? What is the 111 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: process that they got there? 112 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: The Beatles would have been huge, I guess apparance, but 113 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: what were the other bands that sort of influenced those early. 114 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: Early Okay, so early on I had an older brother 115 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,559 Speaker 2: and sister. I think I mentioned I was very lucky 116 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: to have that because they'd go out and make all 117 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 2: those fashion mistakes, and some of those were great ideas, 118 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: you know. So I think with my brother, he introduced 119 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 2: me to things like the Jam I really liked, you 120 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 2: know that that's entertainment and all that sort of sort 121 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 2: of stuff. And my sister was more punk, so Stiff 122 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 2: Little Fingers, sex Pistols, Public Image Limited. She told me 123 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: when I was getting older, she said, just before I 124 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 2: hit high school, she said, you begin to heavy metal, 125 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: old disowner. So I think, because I've got a rebellious spirit, 126 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: I purposely went out and found a heavy metal record 127 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: and got into it. So yeah, but growing up, I 128 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: think my first album that I bought was Bob Marley Legend, 129 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: which I still listened to to this day. It's a 130 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 2: fantastic record. A Human League Dare, I think was my 131 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 2: second record, so it's pretty eclectic yeah. 132 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: I mean there's a classic key we sort of vibe 133 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: around music at that age is and I mean you 134 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: discover led. 135 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: Zeppelin all that type of stuff totally. 136 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: I know that eighties, you know, it was all got 137 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: a bit glam for a while and you had to 138 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: sort of look back a bit to find the real metal. 139 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: I suppose. 140 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think leed Zeppelin was one of those ones 141 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: that where they metal. It was hard rock, you know, 142 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: but that it was one of those bands that if 143 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 2: you got it, you could go for a deep dive 144 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: into that band and all the different phases that they had. 145 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: My favorite is Houses of the Whole because it's got, 146 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: like you know, it's just got every single song on 147 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:05,239 Speaker 2: that records, great danced, crunge, no quarter, no quarters. 148 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: Anyway. I have to catch myself here and not go 149 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: too deep and discussing ze Okay, so you're at school, 150 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: you know what about Korea was? You know, like, was 151 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: music a career option early on? 152 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: Originally I was the captain of the Wellington Primary School's 153 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: cricket team, So so I was being sort of you know, 154 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 2: conditioned to think that maybe I had a career in cricket. 155 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: ID that you made representative level. I was the captain 156 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: of the team and in my team was Mark Ellis, 157 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: you know, Charlie's juice guy and not an All Black, 158 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: and also Danny Himona was my opening bowler and my 159 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 2: best mate. And he ended up being another musician called 160 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: damn Native Guy. But we used to play against. You know, 161 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: Chris Ken's was the captain of the cantry boys around you. 162 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 2: He never got me out. I was scared shitless of 163 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 2: a no because he was he was like one of 164 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: those guys that school that was shaving before everybody else. 165 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 2: You know. I was like, there's no way that that 166 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 2: guy's thirteen, but he was apparently he was frightening. 167 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: Do you a bowler a batsman? 168 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: I was an all rounder, so yeah, so I was 169 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 2: a good swing bowler and number three batsman. But around 170 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 2: that time I met Tom Larkin, the drummer of Shee Had, 171 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: and he said he played guitar, because I had had 172 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: guitar lessons from seven till eleven, and he said, join 173 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 2: my band I want to and gave me a copy 174 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: of a Cdc'shigway to Hell and Metallica's Ride the Lightning 175 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: and said I want a band like this, And I 176 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: was like, I've never touched an electric guitar. I haven't 177 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: even been in a room with an electric guitar. And 178 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: he said it's easy, and so he took me into Wellington. 179 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: I went to Wellington High School and we'd sort of 180 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: basically once we discovered the music room with all the 181 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: band gear, that's where we spent our whole high school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 182 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: And then my parents were really disappointed at first because 183 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: they really wanted me to be a black camp. But 184 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: then once they saw me when a music award on 185 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 2: Teley next to Coronation Street, they were and they became 186 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: the biggest supporters of GHAT. 187 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: But there's a few years in between, right, so so 188 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: it must have been you know, I guess as parents, 189 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: they're probably just worried about about the stability of a 190 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: career in music. It can be a tough road. 191 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: It is most definitely a tough road. It's not it's 192 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: not for the slight of heart. You've got to really 193 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: believe in yourself and you've got to really want to 194 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: do it. 195 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: Said, making that leap between going oh this is great fun, 196 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: I'm in a band, and it's a it's a you know, 197 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: something we're doing for a laugh and actually going are 198 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: we going to try and take this yes? 199 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 2: And go yeah. Well so luckily I met like minded, 200 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 2: ambitious young men at high school that were willing to 201 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 2: take that journey with me. And we're just as driven, 202 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: if not more so, than I was. So I was 203 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 2: surrounded by a good team and you need that because 204 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 2: it's a team effort. And we always set off sites 205 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 2: much further afield than just New Zealand. We were like, 206 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: how does Metallica sound like it does? How does you 207 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: know led Zeppelins sound like they do? We were never 208 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: thinking about just the borders of New Zealand. We're thinking 209 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 2: about how does an international how do we sound like 210 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 2: an international band? How do we sound that huge sound 211 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 2: that we love? And so we just went on a 212 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 2: journey to try and find that the answers to those questions, 213 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: you know, And basically it comes down to putting in 214 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 2: the hours and rehearsing and playing shows and never taking 215 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: no for an answer. Being extremely a career focused. 216 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: But when you say career, I mean that's absolutely focused 217 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: on the music, right, But did you think about the 218 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: business side much in those days? You know, how you 219 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: could make a living? 220 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: At first, we knew that it was going to be tough, 221 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: you know, we knew that we were going to be 222 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: earning practically less than the doll But that day that 223 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: we did actually give our jobs away and went, okay, 224 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 2: we've got a record deal in Germany. It might might 225 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 2: not be the best thing, but it's still a record deal. 226 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 2: We were like, we are prepared to eat rubbish and 227 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 2: do what we need to do to get to that point. 228 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 2: And then it was like, you know, you know, ten 229 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 2: years of hard grind, just making enough money to feed 230 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: ourselves and travel to America, then travel to Europe, then 231 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: to Australia and just going never taking no for an answer, 232 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 2: and then finally publishing companies going yeah, we want what 233 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: you've got his big advance. 234 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: Because it was still fairly traditional, you know, in those days, 235 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: it was almost the way it had been for twenty 236 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: to thirty years in terms of how bands work. Do 237 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: you look at it now, I mean, how does it 238 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: compare now? But also when you look at young bands 239 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: the way that they're looking at Korea now, it's very different, right. 240 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really it's different on so many levels. It's 241 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: different on the fact, even right down to the fundamentals 242 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: of like having to learn how to play your instrument. 243 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: Nowadays you've got the resource of YouTube, which has got 244 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: all the best guitarists in the world. This is how 245 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 2: you play this. We did have that resource. We had 246 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 2: to hunt down the local guitar tutor who might not 247 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 2: be into the music that you like. But that's the 248 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 2: only person I could find. So there's a different skill 249 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 2: set going on. If someone's keen and passionate, they can 250 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 2: become very very good, really young, and you need to 251 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 2: be good young to compete basically, And so there's that. 252 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: Then there's also direct lines of communication between you and 253 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: your audience, which we didn't have, like the Internet, social media, 254 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: blah blah blah. I'm not very good with that because 255 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 2: I'm not part of that generation. I'm still of the 256 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 2: generation that I liked my rock stars to be mysterious, 257 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 2: like Prince. You know, I didn't want to know what 258 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: Prince was eating for dinner. I wanted to I just 259 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: wanted to be him, you know, like because he was 260 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 2: you know, he slept with Apollonia, which was really cool, 261 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 2: you know, and I liked that. I like that mystery, 262 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: and I'm quite a private person, so I'm still I 263 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 2: think a little bit like that, which is probably business 264 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: wise to my detriment. 265 00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it feels like young kids, you know, they're 266 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: really got a hustle now. They sell their own T 267 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: shirts and. 268 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: They've bought a brand themselves. Basically, they've got to think 269 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: of themselves as a brand rather than as a person. 270 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 2: And that's people. There's some kids are so good at it. 271 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 2: But that's just the world that they're we're in, and 272 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 2: and all power to them. But I actually really love 273 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 2: going home after playing a show and being private. Yeah, 274 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: I actually really appreciate that. 275 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: You know, was there a point when the success started 276 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: to come with you thought, gee, there is some money here. 277 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: I need to think about this in a sort of 278 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: a practical way, you know, that personal finance stuff, in 279 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: vesting in a house. 280 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 2: Or absolutely, and I did do that, you know, first 281 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 2: big publishing payout we got. I that was used as 282 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 2: deposit on a house in Brooklyn and Wellington in my 283 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: first marriage, and yeah, that got us into the onto 284 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 2: the property letter, you know, and it was like after 285 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: years of renting or sleeping on couches, you know, pretty much, 286 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 2: you know, and that was from a publishing deal. Yeah, 287 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 2: and I mean, I've got to say, it wasn't until 288 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 2: I actually got out of that first marriage and had 289 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 2: to reassess my whole life that I actually worked out 290 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 2: where my income streams were, where I made money, what 291 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 2: I didn't even know what I was earning. Yeah, it 292 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 2: must have been. 293 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: And you hear there's a lot of bands, it just 294 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: must be like a will wind for a while minutes 295 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: all on them. 296 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: Because you're not late nineties early okay. So I was 297 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: the guy in the band that was the creative right, 298 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: I was the guy that was writing the words, writing 299 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: the songs, and you know, behaving like a performing demon 300 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: on stage, making sure that everyone walked out of that 301 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 2: venue going that was the best rock and roll band 302 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: I've seen. That was my That was the eyes on 303 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 2: the prize. I wasn't even looking at my bank account, 304 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 2: you know. I was just going, as long as people 305 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: want to see us, I'm happy. And it wasn't until 306 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 2: I grew up and went right, I've actually got to 307 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: pay I've got to pay for things here. And then 308 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: actually having my own children kids really focuses you. It's like, okay, cool. 309 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 2: Luckily I've by that point i'd made enough of a 310 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 2: sort of I had enough of a profile to be 311 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 2: able to actually say yes to things that I found 312 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 2: to be I was passionate about, you know, and I'd 313 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 2: never got into a situation I think where I was going, Well, 314 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to do this, even though I find it echy, 315 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: because I just need to pay the rent, you know, 316 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: like I've always luckily gone what okay? Cool? Silo Theater. 317 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: Want me to do a Browll theater show. Keen Hodaki 318 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: want me to do a radio show where I just 319 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 2: play what I was brought up on. Great, I'm playing 320 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 2: a solo show where I'm playing in front of one 321 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty people, but it's really intimate. But it's 322 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 2: also a real thrill to me to do Great. Next 323 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 2: day I'm playing She Had with ten thousand people in 324 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 2: front of me. I'm very fortunate to have this life 325 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 2: and actually be paid to do it because I'm pretty 326 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,479 Speaker 2: much doing all these things that I do free. 327 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: In a weird way, it's that, you know, it's making 328 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: that passion your job. Yes, yeah, I mean how much? 329 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you know, it's a question I asked, 330 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: and I'll ask it, but and it's pretty probably pretty 331 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: obvious with an artist or you know, but how much 332 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: is money ever a driver your output and what you do. 333 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 2: It's not. It's not a driver. I think it's it's 334 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: about learning how to value yourself. It's really important to 335 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 2: value yourself properly, you know, Like I think I used 336 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: to be such a people pleaser when I was younger. 337 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: It was like I'd undervalue myself. You know, someone wanted 338 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 2: me to do something, I'd be like, oh, I don't 339 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: want to offend them, so I'll just I'll short change myself. 340 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: Then it was like I met my wife. She's like, 341 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 2: what the hell, man, you're Johnny facking too good? You 342 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 2: should be asking for this. And it was like, okay, 343 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: I'll ask for it. And then it was like yes, 344 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 2: sweet airs, okay, cool, let's go, you know. And then 345 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 2: I realized, okay, right, You've got a value what you do, 346 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,719 Speaker 2: and then when you turn up to do it, you 347 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: nail the shit out of it, you know. You I 348 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 2: never do anything half fast, whether it's doing voiceovers for ads, 349 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 2: whether it's doing anything, I'm always one hundred percent on 350 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: and giving it my best shot. That's it. 351 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: I mean, other jobs, you know, I guess you can 352 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: structure a career once you're a certain level where you 353 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: can do jobs at a commercial and you just do 354 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: it because it's going to fund doing something that's completely noncommercial. 355 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 2: Sure, but even say doing voiceovers, I'm only doing voiceovers 356 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 2: for ads for things that I actually have trying to. 357 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: Think of what I've what I've heard you and I 358 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: can't remember. 359 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 2: But you know, like, I mean, honestly, like I am 360 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 2: in a very privileged position of saying being able to 361 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 2: say no to things that I don't feel and saying 362 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: yes to things that I do, you know, And I 363 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 2: know that that's not the case for everybody. And I 364 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 2: and I'm thankful every day I wake up. 365 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: And also I guess, I mean, I guess I need 366 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: to ask. She had still a loose concept. You can 367 00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: see she had come back and had another. 368 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 2: Twobsolutely and it's like we've all got our own things. 369 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 2: So Tom not at all. Tom Tomking the drummer, you know, 370 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 2: founding member with me. He manages other bands. He was 371 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,959 Speaker 2: always passionate about the business. That was something that I 372 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 2: was so glad I had him around me because he 373 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,479 Speaker 2: actually thrilled at the business, whereas I found it a 374 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 2: little bit as a sensitive sort of creative I need 375 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: to be protected from it a little bit. I'm a 376 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: bit better now. I can actually I can interface with 377 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: the business world a lot easier than when I was younger. 378 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 2: But but having that, you know, passionate guy that was 379 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 2: passionate about that side of things around me, it was 380 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 2: a godsend, you know, And so he's made a living 381 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 2: out of that. But we all you know, I think 382 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 2: Phil is he the guitarist, he does he tour managers 383 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 2: bands because he loves touring, and he knows. 384 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: All the absolutely and but when we come together, we 385 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: still nail it, you know, we nail it. 386 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 2: And we know that we've got a name of being 387 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 2: a great live act, and so we can never you know, 388 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 2: disappoint people and not disappoint ourselves, you know, so we 389 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 2: always take it very seriously when we're together. 390 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm jumping around to it here. But 391 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,239 Speaker 1: one of the things I wanted to ask is, you know, 392 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: you were very metal at the start, right, and then 393 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,479 Speaker 1: of course it evolves and changes, and it's sort of 394 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: sometimes some ways. That's a bit of an analogy for 395 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: how life can be, especially if you're from a sort 396 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: of working class background. I'm sort of similar sort of boat. 397 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: Was there a point at which you remember just going, 398 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: I'm going to not be constrained by that, you know, 399 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: like there's there's sometimes it can be a little bit suffocating. 400 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 2: If yeah, without a doubt, I mean, I think shee 401 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 2: Hard wouldn't be a thing if we just made the 402 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 2: same record over and over again. 403 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of people who'd like to just 404 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: how you make kills. 405 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 2: Your ash absolutely and you know what it's like if 406 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 2: we if we stuck to that, we would have got bored. 407 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 2: Our shows would have it would have been law of 408 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 2: diminishing returns. We wouldn't have been passionate about it. We 409 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 2: needed to push ourselves, think artists, and I should imagine 410 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 2: people who've creative in the business industry need to push 411 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 2: themselves and step out of their comfort zone so they 412 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: can even get bigger than what they were. You know, 413 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 2: it's so important to keep pushing yourself otherwise you become 414 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 2: complacent and you start phoning it in. As soon as 415 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 2: you start phoning in art or rock and roll, people 416 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 2: can feel it. You can feel it. I've got to 417 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 2: feel it, you know, Like, so how do I feel it? 418 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 2: By taking a path that I've never walked down before. 419 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 2: And you know Fish album. Yes, we went from selling 420 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 2: two nights out at the Auckland Town Hall to down 421 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 2: to half of Auckland Town Hall in the space of 422 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 2: release a bad album. But now what twenty years later, 423 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 2: the first song on that record is a New Zealand 424 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 2: rock standard home Again. 425 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: You know, it kind of defines how we remember day 426 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: I stood how. 427 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 2: To deal it lately. But at the time our fans 428 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 2: were really unhappy with us doing that. Yeah, it was 429 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: too poppy for this, but we needed to do that 430 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 2: because that's what we were feeling in our hearts. That's 431 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 2: the song we wanted to write. 432 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: In hindsight, when you look back, it was still pretty solid. 433 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 2: Rock and roll, yeah, but at the time, after going 434 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 2: coming from Kiljoy, people were like, what is this pop? Yeah, 435 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: I'm not into this, you know, like and it took us, 436 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 2: you know, two years to get back onto you know, 437 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 2: doing the numbers that we were doing before. And then 438 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 2: but it broadened and it changed, you know, all of 439 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: a sudden. It went from a sort of ninety ninety 440 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 2: sort of ten split between mostly boys and girls to 441 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 2: fifty to fifty almost because we changed and all of 442 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 2: a sudden, the boys started behaving better, less fine, the 443 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 2: kids better to look at, and it was great. I 444 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 2: loved her, you know, do you remember. 445 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: I mean around that time of that she had and 446 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: the Fish album that that blew up right and suddenly 447 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: you're dealing with fame in a pretty small place. It 448 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: did it change things for you? I mean? And it's weird, 449 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: as fame without wealth often means that you're sort. 450 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 2: Of Yeah, I think I think people people sort of 451 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 2: take for you know, they forget, Yes, okay, Johnny's a 452 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,479 Speaker 2: rock star, but he's a New Zealand rock star. It's 453 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 2: it's a scale thing, you know, like I amn, okay money, 454 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 2: you know, like I am not complaining at all, but 455 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 2: it's not like being being golden or platinum in New Zealand. 456 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: It's not like selling platinum in America or Germany or 457 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 2: stuff like that. So so there's got to be some 458 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: reality to this, to that. But yeah, I mean, my 459 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 2: job satisfaction is extremely high and we're doing great, you know, Like, 460 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 2: so I've got no complaints at all, you know, I 461 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 2: find the fame thing a little bit weird still, But 462 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 2: at the same time, if someone comes up to me 463 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 2: and says, hey, man, I saw you when I was 464 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 2: at Union Hamilton, and that show just blew my mind. 465 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 2: It's like, well, I always give people the time of 466 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 2: day because that's like, that's great, what a great thing, 467 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 2: what a great thing that happened. 468 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: I mean, well, it's a weird position you're in. I 469 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: get it a little bit with older white men who 470 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: read business, But for you, this is why I'm nervous 471 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: interviewing you where I wouldn't be, whether a Reserve bank 472 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: governor or something. It's because because you it feels like 473 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: I feel like I sort of know you, because your 474 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: voice show you know, and you said some of those lines. 475 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's not the it's not the clocks back 476 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: for winter. It's the day of tiny try sticks in my. 477 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 2: Hair like that line. And I'm pretty pretty proud of 478 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 2: that one. Yeah, I don't know, it's it's yeah, I'm 479 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: always the thing is for me, I always go at 480 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 2: it like I just happen to have a job that 481 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 2: I love. But all it is is just a job 482 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 2: at the end of the day. And it's a really 483 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 2: great job that I love and I'm very fortunate, but 484 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 2: it's no more important than the guy that drives the 485 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 2: bus that gets me to the gig. It's just the same. 486 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 2: I was brought up by working class parents, so I've 487 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 2: always I always bat for the underdog, you know, like 488 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 2: and so I. And also because we were the same 489 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 2: four guys from when we're seventeen years at school. We've 490 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 2: seen each other's worst haircuts, We've seen each other's worst clothes, 491 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 2: fashion choices. So there's no we can't fool each other about. 492 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 2: We're bigger than what we actually are. We are who 493 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 2: we are. Everyone's egos are kept in check. And also 494 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 2: we're Kiwis, so our egos are naturally kicked in checks 495 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 2: because we're Kiwi's. You know, it's not cool to be 496 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 2: a rock star, you know, like, well, it's not cool 497 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 2: to flaunt. 498 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: It's quite a balancing act. 499 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 2: It's got to be humble, man, And I'm good with that, 500 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: you know, Like it's it's like I said, it's it's 501 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 2: a cool job, but it's no more important than any 502 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 2: other job, you know. 503 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: Sure a bit of crack into some of our our 504 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: quip fire money sure questions. So one of them is 505 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: what's the poorest you've ever been? 506 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 2: I'd say borrowing money off the support act when we're 507 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 2: in New York on a bus and going I need 508 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 2: to borrow two bucks just so that I can eat 509 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 2: a piece of pizza and borrowing money off off the support. 510 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: So what era would that have been? 511 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 2: That would have be and kill joy? 512 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, so really just really getting up there. 513 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 2: You're just like playing in front of nobody in Southern 514 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 2: States of America and then in New York and but 515 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 2: just just living it, you know, just having to do it. Yeah. 516 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: And then when you finally got some money together, what 517 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 1: would be one of the most indulgent purchases you've ever 518 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: made or or where do you like to We would. 519 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 2: Just I think buying a house in Thomachi, Makoto nowadays 520 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 2: is pretty indulgent. And we've managed to do that. So 521 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 2: I'm really proud. We saved hard for fifteen years to 522 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 2: do that, and I'm really proud of me and my 523 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 2: wife because it's not easy, and I absolutely feel for 524 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 2: anybody who's doing it tough, you know, and because we're 525 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 2: not leaving living in very easy times financially. 526 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: Sure, do you do you buy a lotto tickets? And 527 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: do you still imagine winning lotto? And if so, you 528 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: know how much do you imagine winning. 529 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: Well, part of my story is that I converted to Islam, 530 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 2: so we can't gamble, and so of you know, when 531 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 2: whenever we need to, you know, me and the family 532 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 2: need some money, we sort of have a joke about, oh, 533 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,719 Speaker 2: when we win the halal, lot of rolling it, But 534 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 2: it's like we don't. We don't gamble. I never gambled though, 535 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I think apart from if we ever went 536 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 2: to Vegas, I'd give myself two hundred and fifty bis 537 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 2: a second of blackjack table and I wouldn't I set 538 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 2: a rule. If I lose that money, I'm out. You know. 539 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,959 Speaker 2: I never lost. I always walked out up, you know. 540 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know. I think it was from 541 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 2: being a struggling artist for so many years that whatever 542 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 2: money I held had I held on type too. But 543 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: then meeting my wife, who is the daughter of a 544 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,479 Speaker 2: UN diplomat. He's actually head economists, he was a head 545 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: economist at the Islamic Bank of Saudi Arabia. 546 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: When her so she knows how to organize the money. 547 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 2: No she doesn't. Oh, well no not at all, because 548 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 2: he did pretty much everything for everybody. Yeah, and so 549 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 2: we've had to learn together and and you know what, 550 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 2: I think we're doing a great job considering neither of 551 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 2: us sort of were from that world, even though her 552 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: dad was. But he's now the advisor to the Kuwaiti 553 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 2: agricultur Cultural Ministry trying to divest from fossil fuels at 554 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 2: the moment, so that's his job. That's a big job. 555 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 2: So yeah, so it's pretty interesting marrying into that family 556 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: because yeah, I think I was a bit of an 557 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 2: outside context problem when he when my when my wife 558 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 2: turned up with a rock and roll star from New Zealand. 559 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's quite a shift. Does the Islamic thing 560 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: Does it change the way you look at money? 561 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely, because we think of money as everything's a gift 562 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 2: from a loah. Everything's a gift from the universe, if 563 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 2: you want to put it that way. And when you die, 564 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: you're going to be asked, what did you do what 565 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 2: I gave What did you do with what I gave you? 566 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 2: So the idea is to pass that money on. When 567 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 2: I first met Dana, I was a staunch humanist atheist 568 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 2: that was like I was. I was like, talked a 569 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 2: good game about being generous, being kind. But because I 570 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 2: was a struggling artist. I held on tightly to any 571 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 2: money I ever got because I didn't have any faith 572 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 2: that I would ever get paid again, because I didn't 573 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 2: know if I would. But she would literally give her 574 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 2: last ten dollars to the person on the street who 575 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 2: needed it because it wasn't hers anyway, and she was 576 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 2: going to be asked that question when she dies. Wow. 577 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 2: So it's and you know what, without fail by the 578 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 2: end of the day she was getting comped in or 579 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 2: at some restaurant or some one to give it back. 580 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 2: It just comes back, and it's just going with the 581 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 2: flow of the universe, you know. Yeah, that's my attitude 582 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 2: towards money. It's like you give to people that are 583 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 2: in need. And also if you look at people rather 584 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 2: than in the West, where we're taught to look at 585 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: people who have more than us and always be on 586 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 2: the search for better car, better house, better neighborhood, better school, 587 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 2: you always got to be miserable. If you look the 588 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: other way and go, who is who needs something here? 589 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 2: Who is less than me? And you help them out, 590 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 2: you sleep like a baby because they're manifestations of us anyway, 591 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 2: you know. So that's how I look at it. 592 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, that's brilliant and a really interesting transformation for 593 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: a kid. 594 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 2: From for sure. For sure. 595 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: A bit of a lighter question, I guess, But because 596 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,719 Speaker 1: it's money talks, I always like, especially you know anyone 597 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: musical do you have a favorite song about money? So 598 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: a song with the money lyric. 599 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 2: It's money for Nothing, mate. 600 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: I always saying that's great until he starts singing the 601 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: riff's amazings are awesome. 602 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 2: No. I actually had to do it and the come 603 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 2: Together Die strates and I was like, do you really 604 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 2: have to give me that gig and that song because 605 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,239 Speaker 2: I like diastrates but well, my favorite tunnel of love 606 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 2: in Romeo and Juliet. But but then getting inside it 607 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 2: and actually performing it live, it's a pretty rock and tune. Yeah, 608 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 2: there's a there's a live version from nearby Worth with 609 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 2: Eric Clapton playing the other guitar, and it's pretty cack. 610 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: It's amazing and and actually kind of interesting lyrics. 611 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, cool. 612 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: We better wrap this up shortly because I know you've 613 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: got to get downstairs and play some songs. But a 614 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: big one we ask is, as a few were Prime 615 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: Minister of the day, if we could magically make you 616 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: prime Minister for the Shay Is there something you would 617 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: like most like to change in New Zealand to try 618 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: and I guess deal with social inequality or deal with 619 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: some of the big issues out there. It's a huge question. 620 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 2: I know it's a it's a big question. I think 621 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 2: our society undervalues teachers, it undervalues people in service industry, 622 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 2: it undervalues people who work in hospitals and health. I 623 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 2: would try and even up what they get paid. I 624 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 2: think we on a whole, we tend to financially, we 625 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 2: tend to reward ruthlessness rather than a charity and generosity. 626 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 2: So I would turn that on its head. What are 627 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 2: the policies that make that happen? Who knows. I've had 628 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 2: conversations where people go, oh, you should be into politics. 629 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 2: It's like, no, man, what's great about being an artist 630 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 2: is you get to sit outside and you and you're 631 00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 2: not you know, I can say things without having to 632 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 2: go Is this going to piss off someone from my team? 633 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 2: You know? And I do understand you need to be 634 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 2: a team when you're working in party politics. But I 635 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 2: think I like the freedom afforded me by being an artist. 636 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 2: Because our plays a role in culture and society because 637 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,479 Speaker 2: we get to sort of sit outside and go actually 638 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 2: that's not fair and that's not right, you know, so, 639 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 2: but we don't have to have the argument with you know. 640 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 2: So it's an interesting thing. What would I change? Yeah, 641 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 2: I think yeah, valuing valuing our teachers and our people 642 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 2: in health. I think that would be good. First up, 643 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 2: making sure that we honor the Treaty of w Tongue 644 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 2: as well, because it is a joint thing. It's it's 645 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 2: for it's not just for Maori, it's for Puckyhart as well. 646 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 2: I think that would be great. And being really honest 647 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 2: about our history. That would be very important to me. Yeah. 648 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: Sure. Now hey, look that's brilliant, John. I know we're 649 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: going to let you go. Can I just just just firstly, 650 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: good well, lastly, good luck with this tour and the 651 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: and the album. Right, so, Last of the Lonely Gods 652 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: early October October eleventh, October eleventh, is that when the 653 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: album comes out. 654 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 2: It's when the album comes out, now, when you hit 655 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: the road. Yeah, very much. Yeah, it's the best record 656 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 2: I think I've made for ages. So it's good. 657 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: Well, that is great, Thanks for being here, and good 658 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: luck with it all. Cheers, John, Thank you thanks for 659 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: listening to this episode of Money Talks. If you want 660 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: to get in touch, drop me a line at Liam 661 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: dot Dan at inzme dot co dot nz and you 662 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: can read more from me at inzidherld dot co dot nz. 663 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: Thanks to my producer Ethan Sills and sound engineer Liam McDonald. 664 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: Follow Money Talks on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, 665 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: with new episodes available every Thursday.